ThaWholigan Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 You're looking for tangible evidence for an intangible concept - you're destined to received unsatisfying answers Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 all concepts are intangible. But I have given a very straightforward, logical and clear explanation. Karma isn't a 'concept'. It's a word for something quite simple. Everything you think, say and do. Deliberately, wilfully and intentionally. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jimloveslips Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I have reverse Karma - no good deed goes unpunished... Link to post Share on other sites
ThatMan Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 TaraMaiden, there are going to be those who disagree with you, including some who follow hinduism, taoism, or buddhism. But that's okay. The idea of karma *is* in some quarters a spiritual concept. How many quarters will depend entirely on individual theologic views. And spirituality has a lot to do with karma such as reincarnation, achieving a state of enlightenment, and becoming awakened. How actions are judged based on whether or not they're positive, negative, or neutral has less to do with scientific view points and more to do with morality, spirituality, and all this good stuff. So whatever parts spiritual a person deems karma to be is entirely up to them as individuals. My point of the last message was that this thread probably has very little to do with karma and more to do with the idea that, "Everyone gets their just rewards." There points a point when that mentality takes a toll on a relationship and people. So I'm encouraging people to say no to this behavior if they need to. Link to post Share on other sites
Eau Claire Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Karma? No. I don't believe in mythical characters or other spiritual hocus pocus. Hitler was no more or less likely to have a piano fall on his head than the guy who just rescued a kitten from a well. Things coming back to bite us in the butt are not karma but a rational set of variables coming together. Link to post Share on other sites
Iguanna Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 There's a song in my country that says "hell and heaven are here". I don't believe that everyone who does bad things will pay for them in afterlife or something, and even if this was to happen I wouldn't be satisfied. I believe though that everything happens for a reason, I believe in coincidences very much cause great events in my life were caused by coincidences that seemed random at the time but they turned my life upside down. If someone hurts me, it's comforting to think "well he'll pay it from someone else", but if you think about it, who cares? Will I be there to experience it or will my pain and hurt go away if he gets hurt by someone else? I try to be fair and good in life, but I know I've hurt people. Will I pay for the unfairness I've caused? Maybe. But isn't this what life is? To have bad things happen to you as well as good? Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 TaraMaiden, there are going to be those who disagree with you, including some who follow hinduism, taoism, or buddhism. But that's okay. You're absolutely right. Which is why (in my signature thread) I refer to those things which the Buddha labelled 'Unconjecturable'....The Laws of Karma being one of them. The idea of karma *is* in some quarters a spiritual concept. How many quarters will depend entirely on individual theologic views. And spirituality has a lot to do with karma such as reincarnation, achieving a state of enlightenment, and becoming awakened. I'm glad you mentioned 'reincarnation' because in Buddhism, speaking in the strictest terms, the two processes of reincarnation and rebirth, and the karma associated therein, are two completely different ball-games..... How actions are judged based on whether or not they're positive, negative, or neutral has less to do with scientific view points and more to do with morality, spirituality, and all this good stuff. .... completely agree.... never said otherwise.... So whatever parts spiritual a person deems karma to be is entirely up to them as individuals. Revenge is hardly spiritual. Which is what everyone seems to deem it to be. As I explained above.... My point of the last message was that this thread probably has very little to do with karma and more to do with the idea that, "Everyone gets their just rewards." There points a point when that mentality takes a toll on a relationship and people. So I'm encouraging people to say no to this behavior if they need to. And my point is, that it isn't karma. So don't call it that. Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpybutfun Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 What are people's thoughts about the idea of karma? If you believe in it, why exactly? What is your evidence? We all know people who have done lousy things, immoral things, and have pretty nice lives. So if there is karma, it can't be confined to this life. It presupposes some afterlife or reincarnation. If I can shape the kind of answer I am hoping for in this thread: When people say things like "Everything happens for a reason!" or give pat answers that the bible or another religion gives them an answer, that is extremely unsatisfying to me. I like to hear evidence, experience, thought-out answers that don't come from faith or acceptance of some precept without thinking about all the consequences and non faith-based reasons for some belief. Karma would certainly be a comforting thought - that no one gets away with bad behavior, especially if we have been wronged - but what is the evidence for this belief? Hi lolli: There is absolutely no logic or reasoning behind this concept. This is a spiritual matter and as such is a part of a greater belief system. The history of karma is as a tenant to Buddhism. Non believers in Buddhism has linked it to what goes a round comes around, do unto others, be careful what you put put there, it will come back to you, etc. Karmas misuse as a concept is understandable given that east and west didn't really meet all that often before the 1950s which is when most of these sayings and ideas came into being. An instance of this is that American President Richard Nixon meeting with China was still newsworthy as late as the 1970s. People really didn't see Buddhism as anything but exotic hokum until the east was opened and Buddhism became sacred to more Westerners. You are correct that belief and religion is formed for comfort. Death is one of the first reasons we had for forming philosophies and religions. We aren't any closer to proving theories like hope, grace, karma, reincarnation than we were in the beginning because they are concepts on feeling and feeling just isn't constructive proof for belief. It doesn't make these concepts any less meaningful to those who need them to proces heartbreak, deaths or divorces. It doesn't mean there aren't amazing stories that people can write down that can make you believe from their experiences either. St. Francis of Benedict once said that salvation is selfish in meaning that doing good or being good just for a reward doesn't really mean you are being good. It only means you are adjusting a behavior in order to receive the reward. Therefore, it stands to reason for me that doing good and being good really is its' own reward because you get to go to bed with a clear concience and acceptance that what you did you did because you wanted to, not because you were bribed. I don't believe in afterlife heaven and hell, but that it is within us on earth. You make your own reality here. From the outside it may seem like mean people like criminals, cheaters, liars and con artists are getting by with things, but as we have seen in this very forum, they live their own shade of hell. Forgiving ourselves is the hardest to formulate and do because if we are in such a place, doing such things, we obviously believe we deserve to be there. Belief is an amazing thing because we only have to believe it ourselves in order for it to be relevant. It is the thing within us that helps us in this journey to get the most out of the world and the people around us, and if we are lucky we can feel for just a few seconds here and there that we are a part of something greater. Hope this helps your search, Grumps 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (Who's St Francis of Benedict....? Do you mean 'of Assisi'....?) Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpybutfun Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (Who's St Francis of Benedict....? Do you mean 'of Assisi'....?) No, I meant St.. Benedict.... I just gave him a first name he never knew he had. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Fun and NOT grumpy!! Link to post Share on other sites
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