doctors orders?

[solostand]

So this is new. . .I suffer from severe depression, particularly this time of year. I have suffered from this all my life, so its not due to the affair with MM.

 

Anyway, MM does support me amazingly well during this time. He is aware of it of course and even understands it, more than my own family does (they give me motivational books and gym memberships, sort of pull up your socks advice). He makes sure I'm okay, gives me money for psychiatric medications that I have to take, makes sure I'm eating, I don't know, somehow the way he talks to me makes me feel better. Not judgmental and recognizing the real person underneath. He says things like "All I want from you right now is to stay alive."

 

This is why I got back with him. I was so bad at Christmas (I always am) that I couldn't even see my own grown child nor visit family. I isolated, but he sought me out and listened and talked to me and made me feel better. He knew what state I would be in because the same thing occurred last Christmas.

 

Anyway, yesterday I saw my psychiatrist. I have been seeing him now for about a year and he knows about MM. When I started bawling and crying about how terrible it is that I am seeing a MM he advised me to keep seeing him! He said it appears like he is a very good support to me at this time and not to change anything right now.

 

I'm not making fun of this, but it appears I am under doctors orders to continue an affair with a MM.

[rumbleseat]

So this is new. . .I suffer from severe depression, particularly this time of year. I have suffered from this all my life, so its not due to the affair with MM.

 

Anyway, MM does support me amazingly well during this time. He is aware of it of course and even understands it, more than my own family does (they give me motivational books and gym memberships, sort of pull up your socks advice). He makes sure I'm okay, gives me money for psychiatric medications that I have to take, makes sure I'm eating, I don't know, somehow the way he talks to me makes me feel better. Not judgmental and recognizing the real person underneath. He says things like "All I want from you right now is to stay alive."

 

This is why I got back with him. I was so bad at Christmas (I always am) that I couldn't even see my own grown child nor visit family. I isolated, but he sought me out and listened and talked to me and made me feel better. He knew what state I would be in because the same thing occurred last Christmas.

 

Anyway, yesterday I saw my psychiatrist. I have been seeing him now for about a year and he knows about MM. When I started bawling and crying about how terrible it is that I am seeing a MM he advised me to keep seeing him! He said it appears like he is a very good support to me at this time and not to change anything right now.

 

I'm not making fun of this, but it appears I am under doctors orders to continue an affair with a MM.

 

 

I thought that you were feeling somewhat conflicted about the A, and surely this is contributing to your depression? What kind of doctor would feel that staying with him makes any sense?

 

Based on what you have said, it would seem that either one of two things has happened one is that he doesn't know the whole story and is only being told the things that you want to share, or he feels you are in crisis and isn't thinking of the long term.

 

Also, why are you so dependent on this guy? Why do you let him pay for your meds.? What did you do before he came along?

 

I am not judging you for having a mental illness, my oldest suffers from major depression, so I have seen what it can do. I also know that one of the things that her doctors and counselors have been trying to do is to get her off the "crutches" that she uses to sort of self medicate ( they are not drugs, alcohol or anything like that, more like ideas and depending too much on others and not enough on herself. It's really hard to explain) and to learn to find coping skills within herself that can help her. They would never encourage her to become even more dependent on someone else, especially someone else who could be gone at the drop of a hat and who is hurting her more than is helping.

[scatterd]

I do not know about this doctor you are seeing. You may be getting support now but in the long run as you get closer MM may cause you more depression. Maybe you should see another doctor for a second opinion. I hate depression its a horrible feeling. I wish you the best and hope you pull out of this soon.

[solostand]

He is a psychiatrist and I believe he feels at this time the MM is performing more good than harm. I am in a crisis and have been since December. He sees the MM as a support at the moment.

 

He didn't say "forever" he said "Don't change that relationship right now." MM is the one constant that WILL be there for me without judgment at the moment. He does check up on me and makes an effort to see me every day right now.

 

I paid for my own drugs previously but since I do contract work, things have been pretty slow for the last month or so.

[carhill]

If you're sharing this kind of talk with your psychiatrist:

 

Anyway, MM does support me amazingly well during this time. He is aware of it of course and even understands it, more than my own family does (they give me motivational books and gym memberships, sort of pull up your socks advice). He makes sure I'm okay, gives me money for psychiatric medications that I have to take, makes sure I'm eating, I don't know, somehow the way he talks to me makes me feel better. Not judgmental and recognizing the real person underneath. He says things like "All I want from you right now is to stay alive."

 

It would make sense, from an individual counseling POV, that the doctor would counsel you to seek to have positive people in your life like the MM. IC is for you. If the combination of meds and counseling and support addresses your depression, then it works for you. If not, then try something else.

 

That said, and I know it's easy to rely upon advice from medical professionals, continue to reflect upon your own path and what you want for yourself, even if in conflict with advice or suggestions from others.

 

My tasking for the psych would be to assist me with tools to establish and maintain other positive relationships as a balance. Use the example of MM's support and care as a guideline and work to seek out similar dynamics with others.

 

Good luck!

[blue963]

Sometimes things have to be done in moment to get over a rough patch. Long-term things can be dealt with later when in a clearer and more settled state.

[waterwoman]

Solo, I have no opinion about your MM but I just wanted to offer my support from one sufferer to another. January is a killer for me too. I just want to hibernate. Chin up, spring is round the corner xx

[carhill]

As I've interfaced with psychiatrists, psychologists, neurologists, neuropsychometrists and other brain professionals directly when caring for a psychotic person, my experience with psychiatrists matches up real well with what is stated below:

 

"Psychiatric assessment typically starts with a mental status examination and the compilation of a case history. Psychological tests and physical examinations may be conducted, including on occasion the use of neuroimaging or other neurophysiological techniques. Mental disorders are diagnosed in accordance with criteria listed in diagnostic manuals such as the widely used Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association, and the International Classification of Diseases (ICD), edited and used by the World Health Organization. The fifth edition of the DSM (DSM-5) was published in 2013, and its development was expected to be of significant interest to many medical fields.[3]"

 

In fact, in our case, it was a psychiatrist who was in charge of the diagnostic team.

 

OP, has your psychiatrist referred you out for talk therapy/behavior modification/CBT, etc? or is s/he doing such therapies solo? I've seen it both ways.

[solostand]

As I have said, this profound depression is not a NEW thing - I have had it my whole life. So MM had nothing to do with its imminent arrival this fall as it does every fall.

 

My psychiatrist is just being pragmatic. He's trying to keep me from slashing my wrists until the depression lifts, to speak crudely. He sees MM as someone who helps in that regard at this time.

 

I have had severe depression before I knew MM so my eggs weren't in his basket then. I remember when I was married my husband left me in disgust because he couldn't hack my depression. Thought I was just being dramatic I guess. I got through THAT. When I recovered he wanted to come back. Yeah, no thanks. I had fantasies of killing him instead.

[solostand]

As I've interfaced with psychiatrists, psychologists, neurologists, neuropsychometrists and other brain professionals directly when caring for a psychotic person, my experience with psychiatrists matches up real well with what is stated below:

 

"Psychiatric assessment typically starts with a mental status examination and the compilation of a case history. Psychological tests and physical examinations may be conducted, including on occasion the use of neuroimaging or other neurophysiological techniques. Mental disorders are diagnosed in accordance with criteria listed in diagnostic manuals such as the widely used Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association, and the International Classification of Diseases (ICD), edited and used by the World Health Organization. The fifth edition of the DSM (DSM-5) was published in 2013, and its development was expected to be of significant interest to many medical fields.[3]"

 

In fact, in our case, it was a psychiatrist who was in charge of the diagnostic team.

 

OP, has your psychiatrist referred you out for talk therapy/behavior modification/CBT, etc? or is s/he doing such therapies solo? I've seen it both ways.

 

I have been under his care for a year, also referred to i/c. He is the type of psychiatrist that I can call at any time, day or night, if I am in crisis. He has done an evaluation and diagnosis.

[carhill]

Waterwoman brings up a good point, one I had to deal with as a caregiver. During the low light months (northern hemisphere winter), psychosis (hallucinations and delusions, and attendant paranoia) would generally increase, as would agitation; the professionals explained this as a brain response to low light levels. We mitigated by using color temperatures which imitated natural sunlight and keeping interior lighting brighter than what one would typically accept as normal.

 

I've also heard from friends who experience depression that it gets 'worse at the holidays', meaning Christmas period, so maybe there's traction to that. Perhaps experiment with environment and/or meds to get over this hump.

[solostand]

Waterwoman brings up a good point, one I had to deal with as a caregiver. During the low light months (northern hemisphere winter), psychosis (hallucinations and delusions, and attendant paranoia) would generally increase, as would agitation; the professionals explained this as a brain response to low light levels. We mitigated by using color temperatures which imitated natural sunlight and keeping interior lighting brighter than what one would typically accept as normal.

 

I've also heard from friends who experience depression that it gets 'worse at the holidays', meaning Christmas period, so maybe there's traction to that. Perhaps experiment with environment and/or meds to get over this hump.

 

Its a very well known issue in the Northern climates, where I live. It is now believed to be partially due to a lack of Vitamin D, which you only get from sunlight. Mine starts in November, Christmas is generally the worst, January and February are no picnic, it usually lifts at the end of February.

Right now I am seeing my psychiatrist weekly, more if necessary.

[carhill]

You might wish to read the "Vitamin D Deficiency and Depression" article in Psychology Today for some interesting thoughts on that particular area of research. The brain is a pretty amazing organ and we understand so little of it.

 

You may also note a method I learned from our psychologist, that being directed questioning/discussion, wherein I moved away from focus on MM and shifted focus onto self and personal challenges and issues. When we were in MC while I was having an EA, I found this technique to work really well when I would get 'entrenched' and invested in defending the relationship I was in. Our psych was expert at working this issue and keeping my focus on my own issues and the person in MC with me, my now exW, and our M.

 

Since you're seeing your psych often, you've got plenty of opportunity to task them to deal with specific issues, isolating one issue for a particular session. Remember, you're in charge. This psych is a medical doctor. Ask them if a vitamin D blood test is appropriate in your case and what other options are open to you regarding mitigating your depression.

 

What I found was a good psych wants to help/treat to the extent of patient progress and direction; they don't seek to 'keep you coming back'. In fact, ours got to a point where he told us directly that his work was finished and 'it was time to make a decision', meaning work things out ourselves. He could have easily kept collecting 100 bucks a week but evidently in his professional opinion felt we were good to go on our own. In retrospect, even though I didn't agree at the time, he was right. I hope your psych is as proactive in their treatment regime. Good luck.

[soccerrprp]

This is tragic on a couple of fronts. I feel for you and your struggle with depression, but it is quite unfortunate, sad that the MM's wife is a victim in all of this and no one cares. You, OP are not a victim. The MM is not a victim. But, the MM's wife certainly is and knows nothing about it. This situation would be more comforting if the MM's wife knew what was going on to make her own choice as to whether say with MM or not. Then the OP would have all of MM's attention.....maybe.

 

Good luck with your battle with depression. I know and have known some friends with it. It is a struggle and best combated with good, supportive people around you. Unfortunate, that, for you, it had to be with a married man.

[dichotomy]

This does not surprise me. I have seen both psychiatrist and therapists. My own psychiatrist tends to be "what ever works" to make you happy, and is very non judgmental. This is good on one hand - cause you can say anything to him and feel safe and not judged. However, He actually at one point thought me seeing an escort would help me and the marriage, as he has several patients who do "benefit" from this kind of thing...but I declined this advice not because of the moral issue - but because he did not really understand what I needed.

 

Your psychiatrist is simply looking to make you stable or less distressed - what ever works in the short term. I suspect in the long run this might be different.

[carhill]

OP, how about that? You stated you've suffered from depression all your life. Have you tasked your psych for a long-term solution? If yes, what plan of action has s/he laid out? IME, the one's I interfaced with developed clear plans of action for treatment, as well as diagnosis. If yours isn't addressing your long-term needs, then perhaps a referral is in order.

 

I recall, many years ago, a fMW came to me after one of our 'off' periods and told me part of the reason she contacted me was because her therapist had concluded that I was 'good' for her. I found this to be somewhat conflicting, as I did love her at the time so desired contact but felt something was off in the therapeutic process, especially since she apparently was remaining married. It didn't make sense to me until later because of the terms it was couched in (this is where patients need to be absolutely honest with their therapists); the therapist, based solely on patient disclosure, had read me as a platonic friend, which was nowhere close to the dynamic verifiable evidence supported. IOW, fMW lied or, at minimum, was ignoring the evidence of her inappropriate behaviors, much of which I provided her H later on. I later found this to be typical MW behavior.

 

IMO, even if it's excruciatingly painful, be blatantly honest with your therapist and never forget that they work *for* you. If you want a short-term solution to be happy, that. If a long-term solution to end your depression, that. It's up to you. Effective treatment can help you; your part is wanting it and making choices.

[awkward]

Have you been honest with this doctor? I mean about everything.

[soccerrprp]

On a side not and something I thought of out of the blue...

 

I wonder if the wife would have legal standing against the therapist in this matter? Anyone know? If the wife of the MM found out that the OW's therapist told her to continue with this affair, what legal or ethical problems would the therapist have?

 

No one needs to answer. Just wanted to share my thoughts....

[solostand]

Well the MM was only a small part of the meeting. The psychiatrist's main goal is to diagnose me (which he has) and stabilize me (which he is trying to do with a cocktail of drugs.) Because I live in Canada, health care is free, so there is no cost to seeing him but it is very hard to get a psychiatrist (there is a shortage of them) so I am lucky to have one, especially one who told me yesterday that he is available to me anytime I need him, not just once a week. I was seeing him once a month so he boosted it up to once a week with clear instructions to CALL if I have crisis. He sees the MM as a support but I agree I must work on building a bigger support system. The problem is very few people understand depression and many shy away from depressed people.We are a drag, after all!!!!! My own son thinks its some kind of character flaw. He gave me a book on how to pull up your socks.

I have been seeing him for a year (the psychiatrist) and he has asked questions about the MM, pointed questions. I think right now its like when my family doctor advised me not to try to quit smoking once after I had a bad operation because he felt it would be too stressful.

I know the MM did not cause the depression but he can certainly affect the ups and downs of it. Like if he is supposed to call and doesn't call, well, to a semi-suicidal person, that can be devestating. Right now MM is very sensitive to my needs to he is following through with everything.

Now that I am seeing the psychiatrist once a week, we hopefully can discuss the MM situation and how to eventually get away from it further.

[whichwayisup]

So are you in the process of totally ending your A with the MM? I thought NC was in place in December.

 

As for your depression, I agree, those who have never suffered from it, mild or otherwise have no idea. very few empathize, and some just don't get it.

 

Just know that you're very strong, even if at times you feel you're not.

[SolG]

Hey Solo :-)

 

I'm bipolar and completely empathise. Major depressive episodes are the absolute pits! For some reason I was thinking of trying to quit smoking in the throes of a particularly bad depressive bout, and my psychiatrist 'forbade' me from trying. However, she did emphasise that I should quit... just not then when withdrawal would potentially be to the detriment of my mental health. I'd suggest that what your Dr is doing is much the same thing; weighing up the balance of cost to benefit of something that is ultimately potentially damaging for you as it applies in this particular moment. I think you've already acknowledged yourself that this is probably not an enduring prescription and that you're going to look to resolve the affair.

 

As for your depression, I find the most effective things for me are diet and exercise... in fact they help manage my mania as well. I predominately eat only fresh foods and steer completely clear of anything processed - and I try to have five meals a day. I do weights/strength training twice a week and cardio/pilates at least three times a week. It is an absolute b&tch at times to motivate myself to keep this up, particularly when on the depressive wane, but the benefits have been enormous for me.

 

I'm still episodic, but I'm meds free. I monitor my state and self manage when I sense something coming on. I still also regularly see a psychiatrist and a psychologist (neither of whom I've discussed my MM with - cudos to you for being able to do that). I still emotionally explosive at times, a frustrated OW, smoke (for now, about to quit) and drink too much... but all in all I'm pretty content with where I'm at :-)

 

I'm curious if you Dr has recommended diet and exercise as part of your treatment regime?

[Snipercatt]

You can purchase a light fixture and bulb that helps with vitamin d deficiency. Mount it where you read, or rest, so that it shines on your head (you want uptake in the pituitary gland). Studies show that even slight liver impairment from alcohol abuse can also contribute to vitaminD dediciency; combined with where you live, this might all contibute to your depression.

 

Solo, think about the fact that your therapist encourages you to continue with THIS MM (he's worse than a pig) is disturbing. But, you already know that.

 

You know you're going to have to make every effort to be healthy pyschologically and physically. You'll soon be of the age where it takes increased efforts (I'd know) and you want to start building those good habits now.

 

No excuses, just do it.

[solostand]

Hey Solo :-)

 

I'm bipolar and completely empathise. Major depressive episodes are the absolute pits! For some reason I was thinking of trying to quit smoking in the throes of a particularly bad depressive bout, and my psychiatrist 'forbade' me from trying. However, she did emphasise that I should quit... just not then when withdrawal would potentially be to the detriment of my mental health. I'd suggest that what your Dr is doing is much the same thing; weighing up the balance of cost to benefit of something that is ultimately potentially damaging for you as it applies in this particular moment. I think you've already acknowledged yourself that this is probably not an enduring prescription and that you're going to look to resolve the affair.

 

As for your depression, I find the most effective things for me are diet and exercise... in fact they help manage my mania as well. I predominately eat only fresh foods and steer completely clear of anything processed - and I try to have five meals a day. I do weights/strength training twice a week and cardio/pilates at least three times a week. It is an absolute b&tch at times to motivate myself to keep this up, particularly when on the depressive wane, but the benefits have been enormous for me.

 

I'm still episodic, but I'm meds free. I monitor my state and self manage when I sense something coming on. I still also regularly see a psychiatrist and a psychologist (neither of whom I've discussed my MM with - cudos to you for being able to do that). I still emotionally explosive at times, a frustrated OW, smoke (for now, about to quit) and drink too much... but all in all I'm pretty content with where I'm at :-)

 

I'm curious if you Dr has recommended diet and exercise as part of your treatment regime?

 

Exactly this.

 

My son, bless his big ole heart, bought me a gym membership for Christmas believing it would help me get over my depression. I had asked for hot rollers for my hair!

 

My psychiatrist said "Your son knows what he's doing!"

 

Problem has been (so far) when you're in a major depression, actually getting out of bed, packing a gym bag, and getting TO the gym can be a major challenge.

 

I'm going this week.

[waterwoman]

Exactly this.

 

My son, bless his big ole heart, bought me a gym membership for Christmas believing it would help me get over my depression. I had asked for hot rollers for my hair!

 

My psychiatrist said "Your son knows what he's doing!"

 

Problem has been (so far) when you're in a major depression, actually getting out of bed, packing a gym bag, and getting TO the gym can be a major challenge.

 

I'm going this week.

 

Hi Solo, IME much better than a gym is to get outside and run. Change of scene, fresh air etc but also needs less motivation to simply get on some running shoes and step out of the door than to get your kit together and drive to a gym and then FACE other people who you always think are fitter than yourself. Or are you knee deep in snow atm? (ignorance of Canadian winters showing here )

[SolG]

Oh Solo I do so hope you make it to the gym :-) It can be hard to make it to the gym to exercise when in the grip of depression and even getting out of bed seems an insurmountable effort. Do you have someone close who's good at friendly bullying who can help? Could your MM maybe?

 

Once you've been a few times, if you find exercise really helps your mental state, I'd recommend getting a personal trainer (most gyms have them available). I find having a program and someone who's job is to assist and motivate and track progress is really helpful, especially if they also understand exercise as it applies to mental illness.

 

Here's a link for you. I love this blog post! Hope you enjoy.

 

The DIY Couturier ? 21 Tips to Keep Your s*** Together When You're Depressed.