Is he just a friend?

[SleeplessIn]

Wow, where to start .... Okay, briefly, I'm married to a wonderful man for almost 20 years. A couple of years ago, we met a guy (I'll call him Jack) through a business matter, and I felt that an instant attraction passed between myself and Jack -- it threw me a little bit because I can't say I've noticed another man since my marriage until that happened.

 

Not long after that first meeting, we went to look at a house Jack had built. He just wanted our opinion on it, we were not in the market. But at one point, my husband asked, "If I wanted to buy it, how much would you charge me?" Jack basically wanted $289,000 for this house. His reply to my husband was, "Oh, for you, $259,000 and your wife!" And Jack turned and looked at me, we all laughed, and I myself didn't think anything more about it because to me it's just the kind of kidding remark guys make to one another. But my husband told me later "He's after you, a man doesn't say something like that unless the thought has been on his mind." So at that point I started wondering.

 

As things have gone along, I have now been doing some work for Jack for most of this past year and will be for a while to come (writing a book on a sensitive subject, he trusts me to do it). So we've had several meetings (all 3 of us present) and he and I have spent hours and hours on the phone and via emails.

 

During one meeting, my small dog got in Jack's lap and was trying to climb up his chest -- the second time I spoke to her to "quit", he said "Oh, you're just jealous!" He talks very fast at times, and this was said very fast. At the same time, Jack turned his head and glanced at my husband, who was looking at some paperwork and didn't hear him at all.

 

The next day, my husband had to go somewhere, and Jack called to discuss a book matter. At close of the conversation, he asked me to tell my husband Hi for him, and I said, "Oh, he's not here, he had go to XXX". And Jack said, "And sometimes you're glad to see him go, mmm?" And I said "Well, sure, sometimes. Nothing wrong with having a little space."

 

Then a couple of months ago, Jack and I happened to be on the phone when my husband got irritated with me about something and yelled at me (he didn't realize I was on the phone). I quietly disengaged from the phone conversation and emailed Jack later to apologize and explain what had been going on -- it was nothing important, but my husband has some medical issues that make it hard for him to be patient.

 

Well, not long ago I had need to apologize to Jack about something, and in the course of the apology I said that I hoped he was not mad at me. He replied, "I could never be mad at you. You don't need another person in your life who shouts at you."

 

When we have been in each other's presence (meetings about the book, a BBQ at his place), he almost never takes his eyes off me.

 

Jack is single by the way.

 

However, in all the phone and email conversations we've had, Jack has never actually come out and clearly flirted with me or otherwise indicated a personal interest beyond the good friendship that we do have. We do kid around at times, but it's very light -- toss little barbs at one another and whatnot, stuff that makes us both laugh.

 

I really feel a need to know for sure whether he is attracted to me or not, and I just can't tell. Hoping someone here -- guys? -- could chime in and tell me whether the above are things that say he is attracted.

 

The thing is, Jack is also a very principled person. I don't believe that he would make a move on me if he felt that he would be interfering in my marriage. Even if I invited it, and even if he wanted to, I'm not sure he would. And I'm not sure I would step outside my marriage anyhow. But I would like to know what Jack feels -- I'd like to be able to discuss it openly so we both know where we stand. I don't like for things to be "hidden" in a relationship.

 

Thanks for any feedback

[confusedsoul14]

Forget about Jack. It's not worth thinking about him at all if you are already married. It's only you who is gonna get hurt in the end. Jack is single. Even if he has feelings for you, he can always find someone else. However, it is more important for you to keep your marriage safe, I think you said your husband is wonderful. It seems as though Jack might have feelings for you, but then all women have secret admirers... It shouldn't mean anything to you. You don't want to mess up your marriage, you will regret it.

Take care of yourself and your husband, and Jack can find someone more suitable for himself.

Good luck!

[SleeplessIn]

@confusedsoul14 -- Thank you for replying

 

Yes, my husband is wonderful ... I love him deeply and would never want to hurt him.

 

But here's the thing. I'm caretaking for my elderly mother in her home. My husband and I moved from another state to do this, as there is no one else in the family who can and we don't want her to be in a nursing home. He decided he didn't want to live here in her home "indefinitely", he wanted a place of his own, so we bought a property that is 85 miles away. For the last 4 years, he lives there and I live with Mother, and we see each other a couple of times a month (although we talk by phone every day). My husband is nearly an invalid due to complications from an operation some years ago, he has to be on narcotic medications for pain. When we do see each other, I'm caretaking for him as well. Half the time when we talk, he is nearly incoherent due to the effects of the medications. So I am worrying about him constantly and helpless to DO anything. And I have no breaks at all from caretaking, it's either one or the other or both (as Mother comes with when I go to spend time with him, and she's here when he comes here for a weekend).

 

Friend Jack knows all this. He has not said very much, but has made a couple of comments, so I know that he both appreciates what I'm doing and also understands it is a lot of stress.

 

While Jack is single, that is his preference. He was married once, for a couple of years and it turned out quite badly, and he vowed he'd never marry again. I believe him on that. He lives in a somewhat remote location ... my husband asked him a few months ago what he does when he wants "companionship" and Jack kind of threw me a look and said "Not much -- the city is 3 hours' drive, one way, so pretty far to go for a date, and I'm not into the bar scene locally."

 

Talking with Jack via phone and email is a lot of emotional support for me. It's a regular contact with the "outside world" so to speak, and he is someone I don't have to look after and worry about. He makes me laugh, and boy do I need it! The fact that I have the sense he is attracted to me also gives me a feeling of validation just as a PERSON, but I don't want to be imagining that. I don't want to be one of those women who thinks every guy who says Hello in a nice way is falling in love with her -- this is one reason why I want to know whether the occurrences I've mentioned mean anything or nothing.

 

As far as my feelings, I have known for quite a while that I love him. He's a dear person, very kind, very thoughtful toward others. I don't love him more than I love my husband ... I would say I love him almost as much but in a different way and for different reasons. Jack doesn't have to reciprocate this, but I do know that at least he feels some affection for me (he recently said to me: "...how could anyone not love you?").

 

IF there is sufficient attraction at his end, and IF I were to ever consider intimate involvement with him, then I will say that I feel we could be the perfect FWB couple. Just the way we relate. I feel we could fill some empty places in one another with no strings attached other than the good friendship we already have. For a short time or a longer time, as needed.

[nighthood]

Why the world is like this?

Why do people think about cheating so easily?

God help me is there any people who never wanna cheat?

Never mind

Can I trust any one in my life?

Untill someone show up and they have a MOMENT

WTF

Edited January 12, 2014 by nighthood

[deathandtaxes]

Why the world is like this?

Why do people think about cheating so easily?

God help me is there any people who never wanna cheat?

Never mind

Can I trust any one in my life?

Untill someone show up and they have a MOMENT

WTF

 

 

 

I enjoy reading how OP is going to rationalize her behavior to cheat on her husband.

[WordvAction]

Yes he's into you, and yes you're about to cheat on him. But it's okay, because life is getting slightly tough for you. And you know the old saying when it comes to marriage, "When life gets tough, cheat. Our

Marriage vows and trust only apply when life is going well".

 

I know you're probably not going to listen to a random online poster, but at least do the right thing and divorce your "invalid" husband instead of cheating. Do the right thing.

[SleeplessIn]

Oh please -- spare me the situational morality. This whole section of the forums is replete with people wanting to "hook up" sexually and/or emotionally with others. Is it really more "moral" for two unattached individuals to do so? If you are looking to religion for your views, fornication is as bad a word as adultery.

 

Throughout our marriage, my husband has participated in online flirting and relationships with other women. He looks at porno too. I don't particularly like these things or agree with them, but he has made it clear that if I feel "hurt" by any of it, that's my problem. I love him so I don't make an issue about it, that's my decision. In the last 5 years, things have changed and I need something more at least for a while. Not necessarily sexually, but I recognize that could be something I would have to make a choice on. I don't know that I would decide to say Yes to that part, nor do any of you and that is not the question I came here with.

 

I might well be very satisfied simply to have lunch with Jack once or twice a month and chat to our hearts' content with a nice hug before parting.

 

So what ... is it just the idea of some actual physical contact occurring between a married person and a single person that gets the nuts of some of you in an uproar?

[nighthood]

All I say is if u love ur husband and he really loves then ur marriage wouldn't be like this.

If u enjoy someone company that much cuz when u say u love him in some ways( jack)

Its not gonna end with meetings twice a month and a nice hug its not gonna end here.

All I want is nobody to get hurt that's my personality

So when u wanna spend time with jack just divorce ur invalid husband or tell him to be availble.

Srry for my english again:-)

 

And I'm sorry that he does things like that really sorry.

Edited January 12, 2014 by nighthood

[deathandtaxes]

Oh please -- spare me the situational morality. This whole section of the forums is replete with people wanting to "hook up" sexually and/or emotionally with others. Is it really more "moral" for two unattached individuals to do so? If you are looking to religion for your views, fornication is as bad a word as adultery.

 

Throughout our marriage, my husband has participated in online flirting and relationships with other women. He looks at porno too. I don't particularly like these things or agree with them, but he has made it clear that if I feel "hurt" by any of it, that's my problem. I love him so I don't make an issue about it, that's my decision. In the last 5 years, things have changed and I need something more at least for a while. Not necessarily sexually, but I recognize that could be something I would have to make a choice on. I don't know that I would decide to say Yes to that part, nor do any of you and that is not the question I came here with.

 

I might well be very satisfied simply to have lunch with Jack once or twice a month and chat to our hearts' content with a nice hug before parting.

 

So what ... is it just the idea of some actual physical contact occurring between a married person and a single person that gets the nuts of some of you in an uproar?

 

 

 

So you're staying in a broken relationship? You're staying with a husband that doesn't give a crap about your feelings? Wow. Why are you still married?

[nighthood]

The question is why r still married?

When u can have a lot more fun and. Happiness than now

[SleeplessIn]

Well, maybe he doesn't give a crap about *some* of my feelings, but that's not the end of the world. I don't think it's possible for any 2 people to live on the same page 100% of the time and I love him enough to forgive him or overlook the things I'm not crazy about.

 

As far as it goes, I could probably have an affair and he would probably forgive me for that. He knows that I really like Jack, and I haven't denied it (I'm not good at hiding my feelings) -- he (my husband) even remarked to me a couple of months ago, that "You and Jack can carry on and run away together if you want. But I don't think you'll do that." And he's right that I wouldn't. I don't take that comment as being his "permission" to go and do whatever I feel like, but I do think it indicates that he has some grasp of my stresses and vulnerabilities.

 

Regardless of what I might do in this situation, my husband is not going to want a divorce, nor am I. However, I don't feel this necessarily gives me carte blanche ...

 

And either way, I still want to know where Jack is coming from. There is every reason to believe that we are going to be good friends for a long time and I would prefer to be able to discuss what it is and what it is not. Before I bring that up, I'd like to have some idea whether I've been "reading" him wrong or not, is all. If I'm way off base, there is no point in embarrassing both of us.

[deathandtaxes]

So be Jack's friend. Don't sleep with him. Don't hook up with him. Just be his friend.

[Survivor12]

Bear in mind that just because you believe that your husband would forgive you for having an affair (and I'm not saying he wouldn't), it doesn't mean that he wouldn't be hurt and deeply affected. Seems to me that if you love him, you wouldn't want to be responsible for that.

[WordvAction]

Oh please -- spare me the situational morality. This whole section of the forums is replete with people wanting to "hook up" sexually and/or emotionally with others. Is it really more "moral" for two unattached individuals to do so? If you are looking to religion for your views, fornication is as bad a word as adultery.

 

Throughout our marriage, my husband has participated in online flirting and relationships with other women. He looks at porno too. I don't particularly like these things or agree with them, but he has made it clear that if I feel "hurt" by any of it, that's my problem. I love him so I don't make an issue about it, that's my decision. In the last 5 years, things have changed and I need something more at least for a while. Not necessarily sexually, but I recognize that could be something I would have to make a choice on. I don't know that I would decide to say Yes to that part, nor do any of you and that is not the question I came here with.

 

I might well be very satisfied simply to have lunch with Jack once or twice a month and chat to our hearts' content with a nice hug before parting.

 

So what ... is it just the idea of some actual physical contact occurring between a married person and a single person that gets the nuts of some of you in an uproar?

 

LOL no need to get defensive, although I did get a good laugh at your rant

 

If your husband is looking to online relationships and flirting with other women, and you're clearly interested in another person, I'd say you are better off being single. It sounds like a pretty terrible relationship from the outside, but that's just my perspective so if he doesn't care either and wants to stay in enjoy your open marriage.

 

And yes, he's into you.

[givemu1]

You can't pass judgment until you have been wooed by someone close to you that uses your marriage issues as leverage to get you where they want you. Some will play on your emotions, insecurities, and will tell you only things that should be spoken by your spouse. A troubled marriage, insecurities, and self esteem issues are bait for men that are looking to keep their single status all while having the no strings attached sex with a married woman. Most people aren't going to leave their spouse for the other man or woman anyway. To say that a person can't love their spouse because they cheated is crazy.

 

SleeplessIn, I would say to evaluate your marriage and see what you are searching for beyond your home. It seems you're trying to justify your actions with what your husband is or is not doing. Is your marriage salvageable? By your post, I can tell you love this man or you wouldn't be searching for answers. I've seen his type....they've ruined marriages and did not care, told the women everything they wanted to hear, played on their emotions, and eventually split once the women wanted to leave their husbands. Affairs only hurt the spouses that had no knowledge of it's happening and you if you let it go that far without reciprocation of his feelings. I would keep clear of him for a while. At least until you figure out your marital problems.

[SleeplessIn]

LOL no need to get defensive, although I did get a good laugh at your rant

 

If your husband is looking to online relationships and flirting with other women, and you're clearly interested in another person, I'd say you are better off being single. It sounds like a pretty terrible relationship from the outside, but that's just my perspective so if he doesn't care either and wants to stay in enjoy your open marriage.

 

And yes, he's into you.

 

LOL, it *was* a pretty decent rant, if I do say so ... and not wholly without merit

[SleeplessIn]

You can't pass judgment until you have been wooed by someone close to you that uses your marriage issues as leverage to get you where they want you....[good stuff snipped for brevity] .... Is your marriage salvageable? By your post, I can tell you love this man or you wouldn't be searching for answers. I've seen his type....they've ruined marriages and did not care, told the women everything they wanted to hear, played on their emotions, and eventually split once the women wanted to leave their husbands. Affairs only hurt the spouses that had no knowledge of it's happening and you if you let it go that far without reciprocation of his feelings. I would keep clear of him for a while. At least until you figure out your marital problems.

 

I don't know that Jack is trying to manipulate me in any way -- there have been a couple other instances similar to the ones I initially shared but nothing "more concrete" than those. He has never paid me a personal compliment (such as saying my hair looked nice, etc.), although he has said he loves my writing. Frankly, I rather find the LACK of personal compliments to be somewhat telling, because my husband and I have quite a few male friends and most of them are very nicely complimentary. So the fact Jack doesn't do it makes me sort of feel that he is going out of his way NOT to say anything like that and my question would be "why"?

 

As a person, Jack has a heart of gold, a description made by a mutual friend and I agree. Jack bootstrapped himself from a childhood in poverty and is very well off now but not in the least show-offy about it ... drives a beat up car, his house and property are not lined with Toys, etc. He helped start a food bank in his local community to provide healthy food to a number of poor children in the area after learning that 70% of them were malnourished (based on testing done at the schools), and contributes both money and time to that cause. He is also very kind and thoughtful -- every time we speak on the phone he will ask me how my Mother is doing and he really listens and asks questions, and he will always have me tell her that he said "Hello". He's only met her once briefly. She was hospitalized and then in a rehab facility for over a month last summer, and he called me every day to ask me how she was coming along.

 

He has never asked me if my husband and I have problems, although he does know about my husband's physical condition and issues with that. Not long ago, he asked me for an update on how my husband is doing, after being at our place for a meeting and noticing that my husband was unable to follow the conversation and fell asleep in the middle.

 

Further, although he and I talk nearly every day about the book I'm writing for him, he doesn't ask me about myself (my past, things I've done or places I've been, etc.).

 

If he truly is attracted to me on a more personal level, then I would have to say that he is not pushing it, most likely out of respect for me and my marriage. And I very much appreciate that. Maybe he is choosing to leave the ball in my court so to speak, I don't know.

[Phantom888]

I'm not sure if you have disclosed your age. From the your description of your mom I would say you are in your 50s and have been married to the same man for a long time? At this point, you hardly have a marriage. You are lonely. You want sex and companionship which your husband can't provide. You like this Jack person a lot. But you are married so you can't make a move. Whether or not Jack is interested, you need to leave your marriage. You don't want to be in it. Sooner or later you will cheat, and everyone suffers. If you truly love your husband, then make it work and quit talking to jack. That is emotional affair there. If you think the marriage is over, leave your husband and pursue jack. You can't have them both....well you can actually....but that would make you a horrible selfish lying cheating person. You want to be that?

[SleeplessIn]

I'm not sure if you have disclosed your age. From the your description of your mom I would say you are in your 50s and have been married to the same man for a long time? At this point, you hardly have a marriage. You are lonely. You want sex and companionship which your husband can't provide. You like this Jack person a lot. But you are married so you can't make a move. Whether or not Jack is interested, you need to leave your marriage. You don't want to be in it. Sooner or later you will cheat, and everyone suffers. If you truly love your husband, then make it work and quit talking to jack. That is emotional affair there. If you think the marriage is over, leave your husband and pursue jack. You can't have them both....well you can actually....but that would make you a horrible selfish lying cheating person. You want to be that?

 

Naturally I don't want to be a horrible selfish lying cheating person -- who would *want* to be that?

 

All 3 of us (me, my husband, Jack) are in the late 50's/early 60's range.

 

FWIW, I do see a therapist, have for a long time for assistance coping with my husband's PTSD and medical issues. I've talked openly with my therapist about this whole Jack situation, and in the last few days realized that what Jack "provides" to me with just his friendship at this point is a form of "emotional refuge" that I haven't been able to find elsewhere over these recent years. So this is something I'm thinking quite a bit about.

[cap er nick]

It is obvious jack is in to you. To me it seems like you want something more with him and looking for justification to do so. I don't believe Jack will make the first move but instead toy with your feelings to make you make the first move. Pardon my language but every guy understands and uses to his advantage at one point the fact that a shoulder to cry on becomes a dick to ride on. He wants to get in your pants and has since he met you. That comment your husband made about 'he is after you' was right on the money. Guys know guys and it's obvious when another man is in to our woman

Edited January 24, 2014 by cap er nick

[lolablue17]

From what I've read here, I think there is a good chance that you husband (don't be shocked) is turned on by the thoughts of what's going on between you and Jack!

 

Im not saying that automatically he would like it to happen, but i'm positive he thinks of it alot (more then you imagine), and if he was irritated by those thoughts, you'd know for sure, because he would not act so naturally about Jack's present.

 

So i'm sure he kind of likes and turned on by that. so, what you need to find out first is your husband attitude.

 

Find the opportunity to talk to him about it. ask his if he is worried with Jack flirtatious remarks about you. after that you can ask him about he's feelings and reaction if Jack will make a move and you will cooperate.

If he ask you if that what you want, you can say that "I'm not sure but of course i'm curious...

 

After that you will know where you stand.

[SleeplessIn]

It is obvious jack is in to you. To me it seems like you want something more with him and looking for justification to do so. I don't believe Jack will make the first move but instead toy with your feelings to make you make the first move. Pardon my language but every guy understands and uses to his advantage at one point the fact that a shoulder to cry on becomes a dick to ride on. He wants to get in your pants and has since he met you. That comment your husband made about 'he is after you' was right on the money. Guys know guys and it's obvious when another man is in to our woman

 

Hmm. I don't cry on Jack's shoulder, if that is what you are thinking. I don't complain to him about my husband or any other aspect of my life. We talk local and national politics, we talk about the book, we talk about our pets occasionally. He knows about my husband's medical issues and my mother's, but I don't bring them up unless he asks how they are doing.

[SleeplessIn]

From what I've read here, I think there is a good chance that you husband (don't be shocked) is turned on by the thoughts of what's going on between you and Jack!

 

Im not saying that automatically he would like it to happen, but i'm positive he thinks of it alot (more then you imagine), and if he was irritated by those thoughts, you'd know for sure, because he would not act so naturally about Jack's present.

 

So i'm sure he kind of likes and turned on by that. so, what you need to find out first is your husband attitude.

 

Find the opportunity to talk to him about it. ask his if he is worried with Jack flirtatious remarks about you. after that you can ask him about he's feelings and reaction if Jack will make a move and you will cooperate.

If he ask you if that what you want, you can say that "I'm not sure but of course i'm curious...

 

After that you will know where you stand.

 

My husband doesn't know about the remarks Jack has made to me that were flirtatious -- other than the initial one ($xxx and your wife). He does know that Jack and I are in daily or almost-daily contact -- which we pretty much have to be due to the book -- and I do tell him what Jack and I talk about.

 

My husband has expressed some concern to me a couple of times, but I could honestly say that Jack has not said or done anything he needs to worry about. I'm sure my husband would NOT like to see anything happen between me and Jack.

[CuriousLab26]

Hi

 

I'm sorry to hear about your mom's and husband's condition, as well as your struggles with the whole situation! It is admirable how much you have taken care of everything life has thrown at you.

 

As for your situation, I think it has potential to develop into emotional cheating (without you even truly realizing it, because it can be a slow process without any bad intentions on your part) and then into a physical affair, if you have bad boundaries with other people/men. I would recommend a book called "Not just friends", and tell us what you think about it.

 

Also, if you need emotional support or someone to spend more time with besides your husband, work on building friendships with women, not men.

 

Also, I would encourage you to search the internet for how to improve your marriage and try to get your husband to work harder on satisfying your emotional needs/languages of love. Even though there is no reason to cheat, not even a bad marriage, I would agree that having unmet needs AND bad boundaries with other people make cheating more likely...

 

Best wishes!

 

(p.s.: I used to post under another name, but was absent for half a year and lost my account details, hence why this is my first post.)