the_entertainer1 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) I went on a first date a couple of nights ago. I met the guy through some friends at a NYE party. He's a couple of years younger than me (I'm 24, he's 22) and I'm usually attracted to older guys but we seemed to hit it off so when he asked me out I thought I'd go on a date with him and get to know him a bit better. The week leading up to the date we texted every day. He asked his friends about me. He started reading a book I recommended to him. Even his ex (who was friends with him in high school and in a relationship with him for four years after high school) asked my friend (who is also her friend) about me. Date night came around ... We got to the restaurant and ordered our meals, which were between $20-25. He ordered orange juice to drink. I just had water. It came time to pay. I'll add here that I have no problem paying for my meal. I have a full time, permanent, professional job so it's not like I can't afford it. I did the 'right' thing by offering to pay my share. But I was really surprised that he took the money I offered him, to be honest. We went out for dessert afterwards and I just ordered a coffee. Again, I offered him money for my share and he took it again. It made me wonder whether I'd mistaken his offer to get together as a 'friends' thing. I talked to our mutual friend and she told me that the guy definitely thought it was a date. I'll probably get criticised by people saying I shouldn't be so old-fashioned or sexist by expecting the guy to pay. I go on dates to get to know people, not get a free meal or coffee or movie ticket. But out of the seven first-dates I've been on with various guys, this was the only one where the guy didn't pay. After the first or second date, I'm happy to pay my share, or even pay for the guy. But I was a bit put out by the fact that he didn't at least offer to buy me a coffee. (It's not like he can't afford it, either. He comes from a wealthy family and had just won a scholarship for uni.) I realise it might sound like I'm being a bit petty. Maybe I am. I don't know. I'm not looking for a guy who'll spend money on me all the time - I'm not a gold digger! I have enough money to buy stuff for myself and others. I just think that it's odd to go dutch on the first date. At the end of the date, he expressed interest in seeing each other again - so I'm pretty sure he likes me. What do you think about the whole 'paying' thing? Edited January 14, 2014 by the_entertainer1 Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 This discussion has been resurrected ad nauseum. Do a search and you will find a huge thread regarding this. Anyway, you're not doing anything wrong. You've dated other guys who've paid on the first date, so you simply chalk this up to being unusual for you. This guy, for whatever reason, doesn't feel obligated to pay on the first date. A lot more guys are like that. Many simply pissed about dating, women. Many, many women still have traditional views on this. I am convinced that the vast majority do. EVERY woman that I have dated didn't come right out and say it, but likely expected that I would pay. But again, I am traditional in this regard, so would have anyway, even if the woman offered to pay her part. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 In my experience OP, your generation is much more egalitarian. The 'who pays' issue doesn't seem to come up as much as it does with oldies, it's more split down the middle. Especially in the initial stages. Link to post Share on other sites
regine_phalange Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hey there! Maybe you want to read a recent discussion about the same matter! http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/454016-am-i-insane-wanting-wined-dined 1 Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 In my experience OP, your generation is much more egalitarian. I love you Emilia, but I don't think it's about being more "egalitarian." I think it has much more to do with a creepy dysfunction that has enveloped the idea of relationships today. I think it has to do with some resentment, after-math of feminism and the pressures that exist in dating today that didn't exist not too long ago. I also think that this generation simply are less coached about relationships in general. Not to gloat that any previous had it perfect... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author the_entertainer1 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hey there! Maybe you want to read a recent discussion about the same matter! http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/454016-am-i-insane-wanting-wined-dined Thanks - I knew I'd seen this recently, just couldn't find it! Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I must add though, I dated a woman who offered to pay for the second part of our date, I uncomfortably accepted and later found out that she was put-off that I accepted. Sheesh. She gave me a mini-lecture about how she's traditional, blah, blah...oh, I'm going to propose to her later this year! Lol! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I love you Emilia, but I don't think it's about being more "egalitarian." I think it has much more to do with a creepy dysfunction that has enveloped the idea of relationships today. I think it has to do with some resentment, after-math of feminism and the pressures that exist in dating today that didn't exist not too long ago. I also think that this generation simply are less coached about relationships in general. Not to gloat that any previous had it perfect... It is egalitarian. You see it as feminism but for someone more old-fashioned that's perfectly natural. I actually think as a 41 year-old that kids half my age are much more clued up about relationships, certainly men are, than most guys my age. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Men are simple creatures. You offered to pay then got annoyed that he accepted? That kind of game playing would be a major red flag for me. If you want him to pay then don't offer your half. Instead, show you had a good time and want to carry on the experience by offering to get desserts or coffees or ice creams or whatever. Positive feedback like that would give him more incentive to pay for the meal, as well as showing you're not just after a meal ticket. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
ChessPieceFace Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You offered money while expecting him to pay. You're in the wrong, not him. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) It is egalitarian. You see it as feminism but for someone more old-fashioned that's perfectly natural. I actually think as a 41 year-old that kids half my age are much more clued up about relationships, certainly men are, than most guys my age. I can see how people would think of it as an act that looks more equitable, but the underlying reasons may more be about not being comfortable or less certain about the rules of courtship than feeling that he/she wants to be "fair." Just my opinion... Again, OP, you didn't do anything wrong. Your expectations were not met. The reality is that you offered, you begrudgingly paid up, and that's that. The guy was satisfied with that. If it bothers you that much, let the guy know, but don't let this simmer. Edited January 14, 2014 by soccerrprp 2 Link to post Share on other sites
berrieh Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm almost 30 (wow, feeling old) and married now. When I was younger, most men seemed to pay for the 1st date and I think most men my age still do. Many older men insist in paying for much more, probably. Guys younger than me seem less concerned about this in general (and girls seem less concerned about differences between the sexes as well in many cases). Emilia is right. This is progress. Also, all men are different. Some insist on paying, some don't care, some insist on Dutch for fairness, some are bitter, some just don't think about it. Personally, I don't think who pays matters, though I never liked Dutch. Hubby and I, before our funds were joined, used to go back and forth (I get, you get). I think that since money is a key issue in marriage if any habits with money rub you the wrong way (this is for men or women) you should not seriously date a person. That includes this otherwise negligible issue. It doesn't make anyone wrong or any path right. If money ever feels uncomfortable in a R, I can't imagine it lasting. That said, I would consider whether you truly care about this issue or not, or if you were simply told to or socialized to care. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I can see how people would think of it as an act that looks more equitable, but the underlying reasons may more be about not being comfortable or less certain about the rules of courtship than feeling that he/she wants to be "fair." Just my opinion... Oh for sure and that's the good thing. People (applies both to men and women) have to try harder in a way in the modern dating environment. They can't fall back on gender stereotypes just as easily. Women need to be less passive, more direct and men can't rely quite as much on the size of their wallets anymore. Absolutely. It's not about being fair, it's more that you are judged on who you are rather than how well you perform to the stereotype. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 This discussion has been resurrected ad nauseum. Do a search and you will find a huge thread regarding this. Several huge threads, actually... Link to post Share on other sites
ThatMan Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Petty? Not at all. Sexist? Not a big deal. Look, it's important to know how to interact with other people if you ever want to this relationship business off the ground and make it last. All that I want to suggest is that you might want to take a good long look at your own actions. I see a woman who is being insincere and passive-aggressive. When you manage to get through the initial dating, enter a relationship, then continue this behavior, I promise there will be plenty of dysfunction and resent abound. It's okay to want a man to pay for the date. Doing things while secretly resenting the man for your own actions isn't going help you. Perhaps it's in your best interest to explain the reasons why you'd even offer to do things that you disagree with in the first place. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Of course this is the reason you shouldn't do expensive things for a first date 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ChessPieceFace Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 She already did her part by allowing him to take her on a date. Oh man. You've gotta be kidding. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
newmoon Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think men paying for dates is a myth, because I have yet to encounter a man that didn't take the money for my share. I go into everything not only fully expecting to pay, but also expecting to cover someone else in case they need help. it's not so much about dating, but just being smart/prepared for anything. it would make me really happy to meet a guy who would treat me to something, and I mean like a coffee or ice cream. I can't even imagine scoring a meal, let alone a $25 one! my gosh that seems really unfair to make someone pay that for you anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think men paying for dates is a myth, because I have yet to encounter a man that didn't take the money for my share. I go into everything not only fully expecting to pay, but also expecting to cover someone else in case they need help. it's not so much about dating, but just being smart/prepared for anything. it would make me really happy to meet a guy who would treat me to something, and I mean like a coffee or ice cream. I can't even imagine scoring a meal, let alone a $25 one! my gosh that seems really unfair to make someone pay that for you anyway. newmoon, you gotta be kidding?! how many guys have you dated? and none of them offered to pay? every important male in my life, friends, family, would have no problems paying...they (we) are out there for sure! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) I disagree with that CPF. She already did her part by allowing him to take her on a date. He should have refused to take the money and paid for everything himself. Allowing him to take her on a date? Talk about putting the pussy on a pedestal. I see nothing wrong with what the chap did. SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE OFFERED IF SHE HAD A PROBLEM WITH PAYING. Did she ever think that hey, maybe this 22 yr old is not earning a lot of bucks right now? She has her own money and works full time. Most 22 yr olds are just finishing school and don't have much cash to throw around. Let her dump him so he can find a non-entitled woman whos better suited for his dating style. Its 2014...and she has her own money. A date is about BOTH people putting their best foot forward and wanting to get to know the other person. Id be VERY turned off and likely not to go out with a woman again if she didn't at least offer to pay for the drinks on a date. I have no problem covering a chicks part of the bill if I know Im better off than her...but if she has the means to chip in, I think its an ugly move to offer or to fake offer. I like a genuine offer, and more than likely I'll cover most or all of the first date and would like a girl to return the favor in the future. Edited January 14, 2014 by kaylan 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RedRobin Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I always offer to pay my share and mean it, because I'm looking for a man who wants a partnership. Whether he accepts my offer or not doesn't affect me. What affects me is how he treats my offer and how we go about negotiating where we will go on a date. Paying for a date doesn't indicate real interest. It's (to me) a bit of an outdated tradition. Nice, I guess. But it needs to be backed up by other things. Focus on those 'other things'... is my suggestion. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I went on a first date a couple of nights ago. I met the guy through some friends at a NYE party. He's a couple of years younger than me (I'm 24, he's 22) and I'm usually attracted to older guys but we seemed to hit it off so when he asked me out I thought I'd go on a date with him and get to know him a bit better. The week leading up to the date we texted every day. He asked his friends about me. He started reading a book I recommended to him. Even his ex (who was friends with him in high school and in a relationship with him for four years after high school) asked my friend (who is also her friend) about me. Date night came around ... We got to the restaurant and ordered our meals, which were between $20-25. He ordered orange juice to drink. I just had water. It came time to pay. I'll add here that I have no problem paying for my meal. I have a full time, permanent, professional job so it's not like I can't afford it. I did the 'right' thing by offering to pay my share. But I was really surprised that he took the money I offered him, to be honest. We went out for dessert afterwards and I just ordered a coffee. Again, I offered him money for my share and he took it again. It made me wonder whether I'd mistaken his offer to get together as a 'friends' thing. I talked to our mutual friend and she told me that the guy definitely thought it was a date. I'll probably get criticised by people saying I shouldn't be so old-fashioned or sexist by expecting the guy to pay. I go on dates to get to know people, not get a free meal or coffee or movie ticket. But out of the seven first-dates I've been on with various guys, this was the only one where the guy didn't pay. After the first or second date, I'm happy to pay my share, or even pay for the guy. But I was a bit put out by the fact that he didn't at least offer to buy me a coffee. (It's not like he can't afford it, either. He comes from a wealthy family and had just won a scholarship for uni.) I realise it might sound like I'm being a bit petty. Maybe I am. I don't know. I'm not looking for a guy who'll spend money on me all the time - I'm not a gold digger! I have enough money to buy stuff for myself and others. I just think that it's odd to go dutch on the first date. At the end of the date, he expressed interest in seeing each other again - so I'm pretty sure he likes me. What do you think about the whole 'paying' thing? For me: going dutch always makes it feel like a friend thing and not a date. I think romantic gestures and friendship gestures are different and when I go on a romantic first date esp, I prefer for the guy to pay. Just like I like for him to open doors for me and all the rest. None of this means I am looking for free meals or I can't do things for myself , it means I like a guy I'm into to dote on me, as I would him and it differentiates friend from date. I don't think you need to look to other people to tell you what to do on this as it will always be split. Some will disagree with how you feel and some will empathize. I don't think it is wrong or right but simply what you prefer in your dating life. If you prefer a man who is more traditional in that regard, then own that. It makes no use pretending you don't or to force yourself to keep seeing someone who leaves you dissatisfied. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So a man not automatically paying for every woman he takes on a date has a creepy dysfunction? Intresting. Whoa! Let me stop you there! If you've read my other numerous posts on the subject, you'd know better. No, I don't mean every guy who does this is dysfunctional. How silly. I was answering another poster's thoughts on a more general sentiment as to why more people are going dutch now days. Personally, I don't believe it's b/c people are trying to be more fair, rather there are other negative dynamics that have led to the ever more pervasive "dutch" attitude. I shouldn't have used the word "creepy" or perhaps "dysfunctional." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm almost 30 (wow, feeling old) and married now. When I was younger, most men seemed to pay for the 1st date and I think most men my age still do. Many older men insist in paying for much more, probably. Guys younger than me seem less concerned about this in general (and girls seem less concerned about differences between the sexes as well in many cases). Emilia is right. This is progress. Also, all men are different. Some insist on paying, some don't care, some insist on Dutch for fairness, some are bitter, some just don't think about it. Personally, I don't think who pays matters, though I never liked Dutch. Hubby and I, before our funds were joined, used to go back and forth (I get, you get). I think that since money is a key issue in marriage if any habits with money rub you the wrong way (this is for men or women) you should not seriously date a person. That includes this otherwise negligible issue. It doesn't make anyone wrong or any path right. If money ever feels uncomfortable in a R, I can't imagine it lasting. That said, I would consider whether you truly care about this issue or not, or if you were simply told to or socialized to care. Great post! Pretty much. Learning more about my "love language" helped me to understand why for me that was important. I then really just embraced that there are particular things I need to feel appreciated, loved, to develop romantic interest etc and what I need will not be the same thing another woman needs and it doesn't make sense to date someone who doesn't positively mesh with the particular things I need. The OP definitely has to make this about what is comfortable to her and indeed if money issues feel uncomfortable, esp early on, then it doesn't bode well and one need not grudgingly go along with it. Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) I see. Here's my view on the subject. In the past it was the norm for men to pay for a woman when taking her out. However in the past women didn't make a whole lot of money, if any at all. Nowadays, women make their own money. They don't "need" men to pay for them. The times have changed. Women have careers, they have success. They old days of men paying for dates and in effect everything while the woman eventually stayed at home and raised kids are not coming back. I think the one who does the asking should pay, and if the woman then offers to pay for her part she shouldn't be surprised if the man calls her on it. You're not saying anything that others have already said. I agree with much of what you've said, but.... This had nothing to do with NEED. In fact, to use your focus on how the times have changed, the greater change is that the NEED is no longer in play not that women do not still expect or WANT men to continue playing a traditional role. Many women still expect it and many (fewer) men still practice it. This who pays what when is NOT ABOUT NEED. It's about expectations. These are expectations that are still strong, common and shared by both sexes at varying levels. Not at all out-dated. Women don't want you to pay b/c they cannot pay for their own. It part of a traditional courtship that reveals much about the man and men want to feel in control, protective, providing...these expectations are not even close to being out-dated. I greatly agree that the person who asks should pay. But for the most part it's still the guy who does the asking, right? But you still get guys who refuse or resent paying. If I use your logic, then you have no problems with the guy paying and it has nothing to do with NEED or gender, right? You simply want the person who asks to pay, so that would mean the vast majority of dates should be and expected to be paid by the guy. Edited January 14, 2014 by soccerrprp 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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