Friend keeps pursuing his ex and asking me for input.

[sunrise24]

This issue has been going on for over a year; basically, a friend of mine had a traumatic breakup with his long-time girlfriend; she broke up with him, feeling that he was too controlling, and moved back in with her parents to be away from him.

He kept trying to get her back, even going so far as to insist that I keep track of her for him. I was also getting the overly controlling vibe; I stopped all contact with him last January.

 

The night before last, he called me at my new number (which I hadn't given out; he got it from another friend who asked my mother for it); I decided to respond, re-establishing contact. He told me life wasn't the same without me, and that he and our other two friends (the four of us called ourselves "The Crew") want me back.

 

***

 

Today, we've been texting:

Him: Hey, serious man, can I confide something in you?

Me: I'm listening.

Him: *link to a new post on his ex's blog* What do you think of this?

Me: Still visiting that blog huh?

Him: Don't judge. Just give me your analysis. I'm her regret. She still loves me deep inside.

Me (after reading the blog post): It sounds like she is relating to those 5 common regrets (it was a post about the most common regrets of the dying).

Him: What causes her regret?

Me: First question for you: did you encourage her to be happy with herself, be true to herself, express her feelings, not work so hard, etc.? Be honest.

Him: Yes. But I was controlling. Me being controlling made her feel like she was not fulfilling those 5 steps.

Me: Indeed. I believe she regrets living to your expectations at the expense of following her heart.

Him: She knows I read her blog. Anyway, what is the cause of her regret(s)?

Me: She let herself conform to your expectations and neglected to follow her heart.

Him: Every month since September, I write to her. She reads my stuff. She hasn't told me to stop.

Me: So? What are you getting out of it?

Him: She blames me for all.

Me: Indeed; why hold on to being branded as a scapegoat?

Him: She still holds on the "evil" I did. Hence, I matter to her. Hence, she cares about me. Hence, she, if I pursue, will open up to me. Hence, I can safely assume that she loves me deep inside.

Me: Do you want her back?

Him: Yes!

Me: Good luck.

Him: Is my assessment coherent?

*(at this point, I started writing this post)*

Him: Is it?

Me: I don't think so...

Him: How so?

Me: I'll get back to you on that later.

 

***

 

Just before I stopped contact with him last January, he indicated that he had gotten over his ex. Apparently this isn't really the case after all. He still seems to be trying to force me onto his side to go after what he wants, even if it appears to be out of touch with reality. The concept of No Contact doesn't seem to register with him at all.

 

He wants us to get together on Thursday (with one or both of our other friends) to catch up. I'm not sure if I should go, or how to address this issue should I decide to go.

 

What are your thoughts on what's going on? What would you do if you were in this situation?

Edited January 14, 2014 by sunrise24

[preraph]

I think you're doing great trying to give him a dose of reality. Maybe telling him the obvious will help. So you think you can manipulate your ex into reuniting with you against her wishes? How is that not continuing to be not only controlling but treating her like she doesn't have a mind of her own? Why can't you understand that if she wanted you back, she knows where to find you and just leave her alone? This poor girl probably is still messed up with regrets -- regretting she fell for this guy to begin with and gave him her heart before she knew what he was really like and wishing she'd never met him and would never hear from him again. Since he's gone behind your back and tricked people into getting your new number, no WAY would I see him or keep talking to him after that. And I think one good turn deserves another and maybe a warning to the woman or her parents if she's really young about how obsessed this guy is might be in order so someone is helping look out for her.

[sunrise24]

Since he's gone behind your back and tricked people into getting your new number...

What happened is that one of our mutual friends (part of The Crew) got in touch with my mother on Facebook (I had introduced them) and asked her for my number (this mutual friend is not controlling or manipulative, but was simply concerned about how I was doing; I long ago stopped using Facebook. I didn't cut off the friendships per se; I just went on hiatus). This mutual friend then gave the friend in question my number; nobody tricked anybody.

[chelsea2011]

It sounds like he is using you to understand where her head is at so he can manipulate her. That's pretty aweful. why would you sign up to help him? I would run and not look back. Yikes!

[CC12]

He wants us to get together on Thursday (with one or both of our other friends) to catch up. I'm not sure if I should go, or how to address this issue should I decide to go.

 

Why did you decide to stop being friends with him in the first place? If it was because he was controlling/obsessive, then it looks like nothing has changed so there's no reason to try again. What about the other two? Why did you stop talking to them?

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably try a meetup with all the old friends. You can see them once and then let it go if there's nothing there. It's not like you're signing up to be "The Crew" like you used to be. I'd just see how it goes.

 

Whatever you decide, I do think you should make it a personal policy to not be involved in conversations about his ex. If it comes up in a group setting, remain silent or excuse yourself. If it comes up when it's just you and him, you should tell him that you don't feel comfortable talking about her. Or just sidestep it, like you did here:

 

Me: I'll get back to you on that later.

I also think you should be very careful about indulging him in his obsession like you did in the beginning of that conversation. What you did was validate his fantasy that her blog post must have been about him, when in reality it probably had very little, if nothing, to do with him. Neither of you should try to guess what she's thinking. Don't help him with his unhealthy fixation.

[Confuddled1983]

This has been going on for over a year?! I think he's a few short steps away from becoming a stalker!

 

If I were in your shoes I would speak with his ex and tell her that if she isn't interested then she should tell him in no uncertain terms "Do not contact me again. If you do so I will be forced to get a harassment/restraining order" - if that doesn't work she should follow through with the threat. One message a month might not seem like a big deal but if he was controlling and manipulative it could be extremely upsetting for her.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it but he seems somewhat unhinged and set back from reality. I don't think you can help much with talking to him, he doesn't seem to accept the truth after more than a year ...

[sunrise24]

I really appreciate the helpful feedback thus far.

I have some follow-up comments:

preraph & Confuddled1983: Speaking with the ex is out of the question; due to my association with the friend in question, she does not want any contact with me (we ceased contact in Sept. 2012). Her family does an effective job at protecting her; she & they have been known to call the police on people who they perceive as a threat (which has happened to him before).

 

Also preraph, I agree with your analysis of him, but I've thus far refrained from being that blunt with him. Also interesting to note is that she rejected him 5 times before they started dating; it wasn't so much her falling for him as it was him relentlessly pursuing her. The relationship lasted about 3 years (the breakup occurred in June 2012).

 

chelsea2011: I've gotten that impression of him as well; I'm not going out of my way to "help" him with his agenda like I used to.

 

CC12: I mostly stopped contact with him due to his egocentric nature; see chelsea2011's analysis and my response. As for the other two? Basically, I felt that being in each others' lives was not conducive to fulfilling each others' needs.

A meetup with all the old friends is what I've tentatively decided on. I believe it would be most helpful with keeping his ego in check; it would be very foolish of him to lose his temper (he has admitted that he needs to work on controlling his anger) in a public setting.

You made an important analysis about my handling of the issue; I didn't realize how much I was feeding his obsession in the months following their breakup; makes sense that he promptly brought it up again. As I have since learned (and you've implied), the most effective way I've found to deal with this obsession is to starve it, hence my abruptly ending the aforementioned dialogue.

 

Confuddled1983: Your analysis of him fits well with the rest of the feedback & my experiences.

 

***

Updates

 

Immediately following the aforementioned dialogue, he texted me another reply:

In your new state, you've become more pessimistic. try to give my assessment a critical view.

As tempting as it was to continue the dialogue, I ultimately gave no further response.

 

The next day (Wednesday), I texted one of our mutual friends about the proposed Thursday get-together, and then texted the friend in question with an update:

Me: Our friend won't be back until the 25th; I don't want to have a reunion without him.

Him: If you're going to come back, have a better attitude.

Sure, we can wait for him

 

I find this ironic coming from him, considering:

> He wanted back into my life badly enough to get my new number from a mutual friend who asked my mother for it.

> All the contributors to this topic thus far (along with my own firsthand experiences) agree that he has an unhealthy, if not toxic, attitude himself.

 

I have refrained from responding to his comments about me, keeping my distance. I would like to schedule a reunion when our mutual friend who is out of town returns, and prior to getting together, inform both mutual friends of his continuing obsession with his ex, just so they are aware. That way, worst-case scenario, they will have had fair warning.

The four of us went to college together; we had become significantly interconnected in each others' lives.

I believe it would not be fair to the two mutual friends (who have not displayed the controlling, obsessive behavior that I've written about) for me to treat them as if they don't deserve to be in my life just because this friend in question is displaying concerning behavior, to say the least.

 

***

 

What are your thoughts at this point?

Edited January 18, 2014 by sunrise24

[chelsea2011]

if the other two friends are decent then I don't see anything wrong with hanging out with them. As far as he (the obsessed one) goes I would keep him at a distance if you choose to include him in the group meet-up. If it were me I wouldn't go anywhere near helping him with the ex thing. She broke up with him and obviously - from what you've posted - wants nothing to do with him. Anyone who plays a part in helping him manipulate her should consider counseling because it is just wrong on so many levels. It doesn't matter if he thinks she still loves him deep down. She's heaing for goodness sakes. He needs to respect that and leave her alone. If she wants him she will let him know. Her actions are speaking loud and clear - stay away!

 

What exactly did you and the other two friends do to help him before with his ex?

[CC12]

Immediately following the aforementioned dialogue, he texted me another reply:

In your new state, you've become more pessimistic. try to give my assessment a critical view.

He asked you for your opinion and you gave it, but it wasn't what he wanted to hear, so he shot a little insult at you. It's like he was trying to scold you.

 

Him: If you're going to come back, have a better attitude.

 

And now he's trying to control your behavior. This friend who you haven't spoken to for a year thinks it's his place to tell you how to be "if you're going to come back." Did you notice that?

 

I would like to schedule a reunion when our mutual friend who is out of town returns, and prior to getting together, inform both mutual friends of his continuing obsession with his ex, just so they are aware. That way, worst-case scenario, they will have had fair warning.

 

The guy sounds like a jerk and is most likely bad news, but I don't see why you should poison the well as far as your other friends are concerned. They know him, they've seen how he is/was with his ex. They're either fine with it, or they're not. Unless there's a real danger or something, you don't need to give them a heads up that their old friend is still being obsessive. They'll see it for themselves.

 

BTW, what is the worst-case scenario? Are you worried something bad might happen?

[preraph]

Him blaming everyone but himself is actually a predictable trait of stalker types. They live in their own reality, and it's never their fault. Even if they had some perspective that it was their fault, it doesn't matter because they're pretty narcissistic and don't care about anyone's wellbeing but their own. Honestly, no amount of talking to him will help. I tried to deal with a stalker of a friend of mine online and it was just wasted effort and any contact on the subject only makes them feel they still have a relationship with that person. So it would be great if all friends refused to talk to him about it except to tell him he needs therapy.

 

I am very glad to hear his ex is being smart and not letting anyone get to her about him (although in your case, it would be to her benefit, but she can't know that), and also that her parents are vigilant, because he might lose it.

[sunrise24]

Brief update

 

I texted our mutual friend (henceforth referred to as F1) the night he returned from out of town (yesterday); he got back to me this evening:

 

Me: So, now we can plan a reunion with you included; do you know of any open days you have coming up?

F1: I work Mon-Thurs then I head out of town on Friday. Do evenings work for you? I think [friend in question] wants to meet on Tuesday at 8.

Me: We were planning on meeting up in the evening to begin with; are you referring to this Tuesday?

F1: Yes this Tuesday.

Me: I'm not yet sure if I'll be available. Better yet, what locations do we have in mind?

F1: Not sure. I think [friend in question] is doing the coordinating.

 

The friend in question (the controlling one) is apparently being allowed to coordinate a reunion between the 4 of us; this immediately raised a red flag from me. I haven't yet questioned F1 about this (I haven't reestablished contact with the other mutual friend yet), and I have not contacted the friend in question since Wednesday the 15th.

 

Currently, I'm thinking of maintaining as little contact with the friend in question as possible, and letting him know that I will not help him in any way with getting back his ex the next time he brings up the topic. Only if he persists in forcing the topic onto me, or resorts to some other unhealthy tactic (he already tried to disown me once over a relatively simple matter; it's not out of the question for him to resort to that again) do I then intend to inform the mutual friends. For now, it's mostly going with the flow.

 

***

 

My follow-up feedback comments:

 

chelsea2011: So far, contact between F1 and I has been fine, even if somewhat cordial.

 

Basically, from July-September of 2012, the friend in question confided in me about his breakup, and I would read the ex's blog posts, giving him regular updates on what she was up to and how she was doing, at his request.

Things between the ex and I came to a head late that September, when the friend in question and I stopped by her place to deliver food for her critically ill older sister (mainly his idea; the dynamics between me and this older sister are a story in itself). At his instruction, I sent the ex a follow up e-mail; her response was to tell me that she wanted nothing to do with him or anyone associated with him. That ended contact between her and I; I got the message (you were spot on) and moved on; he still hasn't.

 

The mutual friends did not participate in helping him get his ex back. I'm the most unconventional, and generally the most available of the 4; it appears that he sees me as the easiest source of fuel for his obsession.

 

CC12: His controlling personality was not limited to his ex, but appears to extend to people in general (at least to friends); I had noticed this by late 2007 (he and I met in January 2007; I met the mutual friends a few months later).

 

He had taken his anger out on me and his ex many times; to me, the worst-case scenario is him taking his anger out on me in front of our mutual friends, spoiling the mood.

 

preraph: I agree with your follow-up insight into his character and your recommendations. However, I see no signs that our mutual friends have even pondered such recommendations.

 

***

 

What are your thoughts at this point?

Edited January 27, 2014 by sunrise24

[chelsea2011]

Wow. I'm sorry, but it isn't a question of "friend in question", "reunions" or otherwise. It is a question of why would you allow yourself to be a party to invading his ex's right to break up and be in peace. I don't really have any advice beyond that. You know the guy is controlling and you know his ex wants ZERO to do with him so why put yourself in a position to possibly get manipulated back into helping him manipulate this poor woman.

 

Don't you feel violated and manipulated by him? I would. I would also feel horrible about being a part of invading a person's life to pass on knowledge that helps the very prson she is trying to get away from. If it were me I would tell her and apologize and wipe this guy out of my life for good. Then I would get into therapy to find out why I thought it was okay.

[sunrise24]

The issue of why I helped him out in the first place has already been resolved. I did feel manipulated, but as soon as I got that last message from the ex, I stopped gathering updates on her; he was still trying to keep me involved, but I had immediately started pulling back from him.

Basically, I thought I was being a true friend and making a difference, but I see in hindsight that I was being used and not making a meaningful difference at all.

 

When he and I reestablished contact, he read the latest blog post by her and then linked it to me. I could feel myself getting pulled back into being used, hence my asking him if he still wants her back. As soon as he replied "Yes!", I recognized the familiar ulterior motives and abruptly cut off the discussion.

 

As I've mentioned previously, there's no point in talking to the ex any further, since she made it clear she wanted no more contact with me anyway; I replied to that last e-mail only with the word "understood" and left it at that, moving on. I'm fortunate that I didn't need to see a therapist to have learned my lesson. Rest assured, he is not getting any more help from me with his desire to get her back.

 

Thanks for your input chelsea2011.

Edited January 28, 2014 by sunrise24

[preraph]

Wow, he really has to control everyone and everything, doesn't he. That's not good. I would consider your mutual friends and think if there is one that might take it seriously if you talked to him about it. If not, I'm thinking I'd bail on any get-togethers with him. If you don't like what he plans and it sounds off or just not right to you, you can always tell them something came up. His ex is smart to have so thoroughly cut him off and I get why she had to cut the friends off too, because those types will use friends and family to get to her. If you ever do run across her, you should straightaway open with "Hey, I get why you're not seeing _____. He's a controlling manipulator." Let her know you're not all blind to it and doing his bidding. But yes, leave her be if there's no reason to see her anyway.

[KatZee]

Honestly, your "friend" sounds creepy as hell. He's still obsessing years later, and his conversation is basically him talking AT you, not even listening to anything you have to say. When he doesn't get a satisfactory answer, he just asks the same question again.

 

I wouldn't even have bothered going through that whole spiel in the beginning. I would have just said, "stop dwelling, move on with your life."

 

This guy is so delusional and truly thinks his ex is still in love with him and it's scary, and honestly, I wouldn't go to meet up with this guy at all.

 

Creep meter is at 1,000% right now.

[Envy_rodge]

Why don't you simply tell him to completely stop talking to her. That's the only way for him to get over it, or get her back.

 

Its probably to late for him to get her back, he has shown far to much weakness. He needs to find other things to fill is time and head with.

 

You need to be rough on him, and tell him he has no chance, and its over. Regardless.

 

You know, and I know. So if you care about your friend, you need to explain this to him.