Did karma get your cheating ex

[kjohn]

This has been a very interesting thread to read.

 

My two cents…

 

I do believe in karma, but I believe in it more for myself than for anyone else. In other words, my belief in karma is what pushes me to do the right thing even when nobody would ever know, because I feel like bad karma would be coming my way if I didn't.

 

My exH cheated on me and he just recently married the woman he cheated with. I don't wish either of them any ill-will. The thing that I don't understand is how either of them could trust each other enough to build a solid relationship….he is an adulterer who broke up a family and she is a homewrecker who knowingly crawled into bed with a married man. Not the traits that I would look for in a life partner, for sure! But that is not my problem and is beside the point of this thread.

 

I am happy and that is all that matters to me. I try to be a good person. I try to do the right thing. I try not to concern myself with what other people are doing or how their lives may or may not be going.

 

It is not my job or responsibility to dole out punishments for what I see as crimes against me. For me, that is God's job, if he sees fit, and I leave it to him so that I am free to enjoy the rest of my life…..then again, God loves everyone equally….even the "sinners."

[janedoe67]

[quoteSo yes, a bad act... that harms another person... does in fact make that person a "bad person"

]

 

So basically I am screwed, over, permanently.

 

Nice

[Fluttershy]

[quoteSo yes, a bad act... that harms another person... does in fact make that person a "bad person"

]

 

So basically I am screwed, over, permanently.

 

Nice

 

I'm more "good in all of us" type of person. Some just have it buried real deep. My husband is not a "bad" person. He is mostly good right now but during his A he was a "bad" husband. Not by the actions he showed me but by te sneaking around and betrayin me.

 

While knowingly sleeping with a MM, you are going to be seen as "bad" in that area. And some will see that forever. But if you are no longer engaging in that beauviour... Well you're no longer being "bad"

[TaraMaiden]

This has been a very interesting thread to read.

 

My two cents…

 

I do believe in karma, but I believe in it more for myself than for anyone else. In other words, my belief in karma is what pushes me to do the right thing even when nobody would ever know, because I feel like bad karma would be coming my way if I didn't.

If you read the explanatory link in my signature thread, you will understand that everything you do - IS karma. There is no such thing as 'bad Karma coming your way' - bad karma is anything, you perceive as bad, that YOU do.

You'e still caught up in the Western mind-set of 'punishment' and 'reward'.

 

Let me put it this way:

You would not be punished FOR your sins;

You'd be punished BY them.

 

My exH cheated on me and he just recently married the woman he cheated with. I don't wish either of them any ill-will. The thing that I don't understand is how either of them could trust each other enough to build a solid relationship….he is an adulterer who broke up a family and she is a homewrecker who knowingly crawled into bed with a married man. Not the traits that I would look for in a life partner, for sure!

You're missing the point. Their actions do not define who they are, just as any actions you do don't define you - they're just something you do.

What they did isn't a 'trait'. It's not a characteristic, it's not something they will continue to do perpetually - otherwise they would either have multiple partner or an open relationship.

If they married, it's because they wanted to, they fell in love, and believe that being married together, makes them happy.

In a way, it's a good thing; too many people have affairs with other people who in fact either don't really mean that much to them, or with whom they have a brief emotional connection but is unsustainable.

That is the tragedy of a fling-affair; the damage continues like ripples in a pond.

In your case, these two people love one another, and appreciate one another enough to make a life together.

It's just a damn shame the way they went about it, caused heartbreak and distress.

 

I am happy and that is all that matters to me. I try to be a good person. I try to do the right thing. I try not to concern myself with what other people are doing or how their lives may or may not be going.

Good thing...

 

It is not my job or responsibility to dole out punishments for what I see as crimes against me. For me, that is God's job, if he sees fit, and I leave it to him so that I am free to enjoy the rest of my life…..then again, God loves everyone equally….even the "sinners."

God has nothing to do with Karma, just as karma has nothing to do with God.

If you seek God's actions here, look to Christian thought - but Karma doesn't include any theistic notions.....

[crederer]

I dunno she's hating life pretty hard right now but she was like that before as well....

[Radu]

Karma, or whatever it is called ... why are we getting into this eastern philosophy sh*t at a pop level.

If you're a fan and follow it, do it and be happy, but if you just heard the word on Dharma and Greg, maybe you should say it another way ... like i don't know 'you reap what you sow'.

So much more beautiful, elegant, and totally without any yuppie connotations to it.

 

So, to answer the question ... did my cheating ex's get what was coming to them ?

Yes and no; most of their problems were [and are] because of their character flaws.

Until those character flaws are not rectified, they will continue to have problems, brought on by their own hand.

 

As for the ppl of this site, i am constantly horrified by the incredible rationalizations that OW/OM come up, rationalizations that allow them to prop up their egocentric behaviour at the risk of horribly screwing up their family, their kids ... etc.

You cheated, you stabbed in the back the person closest to you all because it was about you.

What kind of example is that for your children ?

What will you say to them when they themselves see their lives crumbling down around them because they met the same person that their mommy or daddy is.

 

I'm not gonna wish ill on you or your children, because no matter what i wish for, your children have a bigger problem [i'll let you guess what that problem is].

 

PS: No, i don't believe in karma, i do believe in reaping what you saw if you don't change your ways.

[Anne Boleyn]

As for the ppl of this site, i am constantly horrified by the incredible rationalizations that OW/OM come up, rationalizations that allow them to prop up their egocentric behaviour at the risk of horribly screwing up their family, their kids ... etc.

You cheated, you stabbed in the back the person closest to you all because it was about you.

What kind of example is that for your children ?

What will you say to them when they themselves see their lives crumbling down around them because they met the same person that their mommy or daddy is.

 

I'm not gonna wish ill on you or your children, because no matter what i wish for, your children have a bigger problem [i'll let you guess what that problem is].

 

PS: No, i don't believe in karma, i do believe in reaping what you saw if you don't change your ways.

 

I think one of the things is there's a fine line that people who admit to being in affairs half to walk on here... Everybody wants to know why, what drives people to have affairs. It's a combination of morbid curiosity, to maybe understand why their spouse cheated, to get closure/resolution, or maybe to safeguard their marriage. And when people say why, what their thoughts were when it happened, people react badly because they say they were selfish, because they weren't thinking of anybody but themselves, they didn't care about what it did to others, or otherwise attack the reasons behind it. Then they confuse the explanation for a rationalization and get more irritated.

 

Ignoring that a simple paragraph or 5 to unearth the complexities of something like an affair isn't going to capture the full picture and thoughts behind something that consumed one's life for what could be a long time... But often times the people in the affair will tell you or agree with all the above... That they weren't thinking, they were selfish, etc etc. But by discussing it, they're not rationalizing why it happened, only explaining how it happened and what the thought process was at the time. So there's this whammy of "You had an affair... That's awful... You're awful... Why did you do it?" followed by the sharing of stories and feelings and explanations, with the response of "Why are you excusing and rationalizing what happened? You're horrible and selfish and you did a bad thing... I can't believe you'd explain it all away." You're damned for admitting it, damned for explaining it, despite the fact that people asked you to.

 

As far as the kid card... The implications that people who have affairs are universally bad parents is an attempt at somebody who sees somebody who hurt somebody else using a leverage they think to exact hurt back. The truth is when one discusses the decline of their marriage or having an affair, it doesn't really reflect or describe the type of parent they are or aren't. I realize when one says that they won't pull the kids into it, but then says something that implies the kids are worse off because they have bad parents... It's words of anger or frustration, not a reflection of anything but that anger or frustration, and the reason behind why they've contradicted themselves when they say "I'm not going to wish ill on your kids" but "they have a big problem and... Hint, hint... It's you."

[TaraMaiden]

Karma, or whatever it is called ... why are we getting into this eastern philosophy sh*t at a pop level.

...because people have taken an Eastern Philosophy word and twisted it to a pop level.

This thread is a discussion about what the wrong concept is, and what the right one is.

 

Hope that explains it....

 

 

 

PS: No, i don't believe in karma, i do believe in reaping what you saw if you don't change your ways.

So.... sorry.... you don't believe in Eastern Philosophy Karma (Which simply means 'volitional deliberate action) or the incorrect type of Karma, ie, the one at Schytt pop level....?

[Radu]

As far as the kid card... The implications that people who have affairs are universally bad parents is an attempt at somebody who sees somebody who hurt somebody else using a leverage they think to exact hurt back. The truth is when one discusses the decline of their marriage or having an affair, it doesn't really reflect or describe the type of parent they are or aren't. I realize when one says that they won't pull the kids into it, but then says something that implies the kids are worse off because they have bad parents... It's words of anger or frustration, not a reflection of anything but that anger or frustration, and the reason behind why they've contradicted themselves when they say "I'm not going to wish ill on your kids" but "they have a big problem and... Hint, hint... It's you."

 

Whatever it is that the cheater needs to believe to sleep at night.

Children learn from parents, that's how information is transmitted in society.

 

I've read a few of your posts so i know you have kids, and are older than i am [therefore have more life experience], but even at my rather young age of 30 i've come to realize that the old local saying translated in English as "Tell me who you're ppl are, so i know who/what you are." holds a great deal of validity most of the time[you're ppl is meant here to mean who are your parents, grandparents, what kind of ppl they are, what did they do in their lives, where do they come from].

I'm well aware that exceptions exists, but they do not interest me, because profiling is much more successful.

 

2yrs ago i was different, i believed [despite my overral cynical nature] in goodness and sunshine and lollipops.

Nothing traumatic happened in the last 2yrs, i just opened my eyes a little bit and i started looking more closely at ppl, situations, how behaviours go through the family line, etc ...

 

So.... sorry.... you don't believe in Eastern Philosophy Karma (Which simply means 'volitional deliberate action) or the incorrect type of Karma, ie, the one at Schytt pop level....?

I tried to follow the thread, but it gets rather complicated.

Just this ... reaping what you saw; sometimes it means more direct repercusions, some other times it means more indirect or long term repercusions, etc ...

Edited January 28, 2014 by Radu

[TaraMaiden]

(You mean 'sow' not 'saw'...... )

[Anne Boleyn]

Whatever it is that the cheater needs to believe to sleep at night.

 

So it's purely a case of people believing what they want to believe to feel better about themselves, and not a case of somebody believing what they want to believe so that they can feel superior to others?

 

Truth be told, you know very little about our family situation, so why would the assumption be that I need to "believe" things in order to feel OK about myself and not that you simply don't have all the facts despite the need to freely make assumptions? Especially when those assumptions seem to have more to do with catering to how you feel, not how my life goes about.

 

Children learn from parents, that's how information is transmitted in society.

 

I don't disagree.

 

I've read a few of your posts so i know you have kids, and are older than i am [therefore have more life experience], but even at my rather young age of 30 i've come to realize that the old local saying translated in English as "Tell me who you're ppl are, so i know who/what you are." holds a great deal of validity most of the time[you're ppl is meant here to mean who are your parents, grandparents, what kind of ppl they are, what did they do in their lives, where do they come from].

 

If you'd read my posts, you'd know that I do have a child, though he was born with my now-husband after I'd left my husband and he'd left his wife. He has children from his prior marriage, I do not.

 

Also, I've not said my age, so how you could "know" my age or life experience is something of a surprise... Though the fact that you've decided that I'm older while I'm in fact your age will apparently come as a surprise to you.

 

So I say again, arriving about conclusions about my parenting or my child, or even his children and my step children, despite not actually knowing our family makeup has more to do with you serving your own perceptions, not reflecting what my life is.

 

As for the sharing of my people so you know more about me, I think you'd be surprised again to see that the people in my family have significantly different stories than I. While I'm the second in my family to have ever divorced, (the first being my parents, though they divorced their first spouses and married each other and have since been married almost 40 years), our family is not one of divorces, affairs, and scandal, other than one relative on my father's side who I've never met who ran off with his brother's wife. So if we were to examine my "people," you'd find I'm quite different than where I came from by having both an affair and a divorce.

 

However, I know that's not why you brought it up. You brought it up to make a point against my children, saying that because you view me as bad because of my affair, they will be marked for it, or will be bad. A curious assertion from somebody who only moments ago said he would wish to not wish ill on people's children... Are we not counting saying that because the children have parents who did something you think is wrong and are therefore bad that the children themselves will also be bad as "saying bad things about people's kids?"

 

I'm well aware that exceptions exists, but they do not interest me, because profiling is much more successful.

 

Well as we can see not always successful now, is it? Besides which, one would think that before throwing off children as bad because of their parents, you'd kind of want to deal in specifics and not generalities... Again, given the goal to not wish bad things upon children.

 

2yrs ago i was different, i believed [despite my overral cynical nature] in goodness and sunshine and lollipops.

Nothing traumatic happened in the last 2yrs, i just opened my eyes a little bit and i started looking more closely at ppl, situations, how behaviours go through the family line, etc ...

 

Which is fine, and consistent with how I said your musings are more a reflection on what you wish to see and hear so as to support your ideals, not so much what the reality of the situation is.

 

I tried to follow the thread, but it gets rather complicated.

Just this ... reaping what you saw; sometimes it means more direct repercusions, some other times it means more indirect or long term repercusions, etc ...

 

Sow. Not saw.

 

I don't think anybody here has any confusion about what reaping what you sow means... Well, most everybody, apparently... The debate is if one bad act makes you a bad person who's subjected to the wrath of the universe for all time, and that all bad things that happen are punishment, or if retribution is more along the lines of "I had an affair, now my marriage is in shambles, I feel guilt, I've hurt my husband" are the repercussions.

 

Some people think it's the latter. Some people think that because I burned dinner last night, the universe is punishing me for an affair 5 years ago. It's all perspective, both cases most often reflected by what the person really wants to see.

[Radu]

So it's purely a case of people believing what they want to believe to feel better about themselves, and not a case of somebody believing what they want to believe so that they can feel superior to others?

 

Truth be told, you know very little about our family situation, so why would the assumption be that I need to "believe" things in order to feel OK about myself and not that you simply don't have all the facts despite the need to freely make assumptions? Especially when those assumptions seem to have more to do with catering to how you feel, not how my life goes about.

 

Most of us believe what we want to believe to make ourselves feel better.

It's the ego's survival instinct, it's what keeps us from feeling disgusted when we look in the bathroom mirror.

 

The question is, the 'sins' you block this way ... how bad are they really ?

 

I'll also add, my post is not about you ... though from what i understood you are an OW.

I have wrote nothing that was aimed specifically at you, just something that is aimed in general at ppl who have went through your situation, i hope you understand the difference.

 

It's nothing personal, but if i meet someone IRL who i get along with who tells me that at some point they were involved in an affair, i put them in a little box in my head.

They may never give me reason to worry, or they might end up living to the expectations of the class of ppl in that box ... but either way i am more prepared to deal with them.

 

Let me give you another example.

If all things otherwise considered equal, i have to choose between a girl who's parents cheated on each other and broke up, and one who's parents met by having an affair ... you can bet the house that i'll run away from the latter [and the former if she approves of the affair].

 

I don't need to know full details of the situation, i'm not a judge, i do not pass sentences for the society ... i pass sentences for the benefit of me and only me.

 

PS: It's a numbers game in the end AB, i just choose what's more efficient.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Radu

[VeronicaRoss]

You yourself said karma was just a way to talk about bad consequences, I get it.

 

Yes it does. Because people who cheat justify causing other's pain to satisfy their immediate desire. Anyone and everyone in their life is going to suffer because of that. That will continue to create different problems for them and whoever they're involved with, not just romantic problems.

 

My first love who cheated on me tried to seduce me again when I ran into him almost 20 years later. This is a guy that others had tried to warn me about, but I couldn't imagine such a sweet, shy guy would do anything so hurtful. Well, they were sure right.

 

He was married with a kid for 11 years. The first thing he said to me after the shock of seeing me again was, "Are you married? Because I am and I'm miserable." At first I was totally flattered and then the pain of being on the other side brought me back to earth, he kept trying to get me back in the fold throughout the rest of the conversation. That was over 10 years ago, they're still together and I accidentally got to hear her brag about how great her marriage is, especially the sex, to her grown daughters who looked very skeptical. She was trying to give them advice about what being a good wife entails. I don't know for sure what the daughters were thinking, they conspicuously stayed silent through the whole lecture but I was thinking "Why do you think he's worth it? He's making a laughing stock out of you." The bizarre fact I got to hear that conversation felt like a gift of sorts, it was an amazing coincidence. I got out and I don't have to deal with that pain.

 

My second cheating ex also cheats on his wife, the woman he was seeing on the side while we were together. They look like the perfect couple. However I ran into him with another woman who wasn't his wife at a resort and he clearly was involved with. He flashed me a conspiring smile that was all glee, power and "I win". Wow, I was creeped out. Yep, the other woman sure won over me!

[vera345]

Can someone explain to me what does it mean when people say that bad actions do not define who we are, they don't make us good or bad people.

I really don't understand this.

I always thought that as humans we are defined by our actions. For example, if someone is a rapist or a child molestor you are saying he is not a bad person just bc he did a bad act. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Fluttershy]

Can someone explain to me what does it mean when people say that bad actions do not define who we are, they don't make us good or bad people.

I really don't understand this.

I always thought that as humans we are defined by our actions. For example, if someone is a rapist or a child molestor you are saying he is not a bad person just bc he did a bad act. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

It depends on who defines you. Someone who i a child molestor is actually mentally ill and they never trust them around children again. It is a twisted sickness.

 

But if a person is a con artist, goes to jail, straightens out and then is a moral upstandin citizen for the rest of his life I would never define him as a bad person in the present. If a spouse cheats, but then stops, cleans up their act and never cheata again I would never define them by their past behaviour... Only their present.

[TaraMaiden]

Can someone explain to me what does it mean when people say that bad actions do not define who we are, they don't make us good or bad people.

I really don't understand this.

I always thought that as humans we are defined by our actions. For example, if someone is a rapist or a child molestor you are saying he is not a bad person just bc he did a bad act. It doesn't make sense to me.

Hitler did many, many atrocious things.... but he adored eva Braun, loved children and painted the most wonderful watercolours.

had you only known these three facts about him, you could never believe he was capable of such despicable acts.

 

Gandhi freed India from the serfdom of the Empire, and gave it independence and autonomy.

 

When his sons were younger, he was quite violent with them, and one son harilal, hated him for the whole of his life, and never came to terms with his father's actions.

What does that make of Gandhi?

 

Actions do not define a person in that there is always a multi-faceted image to consider.

This is why behind every action, there is a reason.

It could be selfish, it could be twisted, it could be utterly incomprehensible to others - but to that person, it is logic and it is what they want to do.

 

Bringing it down several notches, it is very easy to be instantly critical of someone's actions, particularly when the "victim" posts their story of woe.

many people immediately offer counsel, support and helpful advice.

I've done it more times than I care to count....

 

But on the face of it, all we have are black words on a white screen, and only one account.

 

On very rare occasions, the other person in the scenario has discovered the thread and come back with a mitigating response.... and suddenly, the original post doesn't look so faultless for the op....

 

To every action, there is a story. A justification, a reason.

 

Whether we agree with it or not, find it of value or deem it worthy or not, is our perception of whatever it is we instantly know.

 

But like icebergs, there's more to everything than meets the eye....

[vera345]

I see the logic. I would say it differently, I think our actions define who we are at that moment. A bad person can redeem him or herself, and can become a good person. However, redemption is a very long and difficult road, that not many people are capable of.

[vera345]

And yes I understand that for every action there is a justification. However, there should be and there are certain moral boundaries that shouldn't be crossed. For some reason, we want to teach our children that lying is bad, that certain things shouldn't be done in life, that you need to treat other people the same way as you want them to treat you.

 

Sure, anything can be justified, millions of murders in a history of humans were justified, it doesn't make it right, thought. And who really cares which justification people have for bad actions when they are wrong acts, period.

[TaraMaiden]

WE know certain actions can be classified as 'bad' because we have National Law to dictate that. Stealing, murder, fraud, assault... there are all defined as actions which contravene Laws.

Sometimes though, impersonal, one-to-one situations, the edges are not so defined, and the rationale is blurred.

I'm just saying that even with simple 'morality' being use to weigh up the situation, it pays to relax and release opinion, and just listen.

[TaraMaiden]

Doing nothing is still doing something.

 

Have you heard the phrase 'He who cares the least controls the most'?

 

His unwillingness to action something definitive within your relationship is his business.

 

What you do in reaction to this, is yours.

 

While there is an emotional crisis here, there IS a solution.

What stops people taking Action, sometimes, is a level of indifference, or a level of fear.

[TaraMaiden]

So if he won't act - what do YOU intend to do?

And what is stopping YOU?

 

This is really what I was addressing.

 

Taking this -

His unwillingness to action something definitive within your relationship is his business.

 

- as read, means that you therefore have to do something.

 

What he does, is his concern.

How YOU react to it, is of more vital importance.

 

What's next?

[TaraMaiden]

You steered the thread back onto 'topic' and exposed your situation.

So you made it 'about you' for a while.

 

Discomfort is another word for fear. Or at least it's a type of....

Sorry if the discussion began to make you feel that way....

 

Feel free to PM me if you wish.

or not, as the case may be.

 

[ComingInHot]

Heya Tara

Quick question about this Karma thing*

Do think Karma is "created" or could be created from within the person from actions/Inactions and/or Non action that are negative or harmful to others? I ask because when I behave negatively, it breeds within me a negative heart. I can literally FEEL the change in my overall behavior because of my disappointment in myself (let alone the "consequences" my negative behavior may bring down on myself*). I am curt, short, and insensitive in my interactions with others. I tend to become single minded having tunnel vision in justifying my poor behavior and finally find comrade ri in the support and justifying of others who are acting in the same pi$$ poor manner.

Thusly becoming my own worst enemy.

Thoughts?!**

CIH*

[TaraMaiden]

Heya Tara

Quick question about this Karma thing*

Do think Karma is "created" or could be created from within the person from actions/Inactions and/or Non action that are negative or harmful to others? I ask because when I behave negatively, it breeds within me a negative heart. I can literally FEEL the change in my overall behavior because of my disappointment in myself (let alone the "consequences" my negative behavior may bring down on myself*). I am curt, short, and insensitive in my interactions with others. I tend to become single minded having tunnel vision in justifying my poor behavior and finally find comrade ri in the support and justifying of others who are acting in the same pi$$ poor manner.

Thusly becoming my own worst enemy.

Thoughts?!**

CIH*

 

You've pretty much nailed it in those two sentences, actually, yeah.....

[ComingInHot]

Why Thank ya ma'am*