Why Men Cheat [article]

[Morgoth]

Interesting Article, makes total sense to me. Anyone interested in womens infedility should look at Michelle Langley's work, women have the same issues in a different context.

 

Vicki Larson, Journalist, mother, thinker

Why Men Need To Cheat

Monogamy is failing men.

Not only is it failing them, but it's a "socially compelled sexual incarceration" that can lead to a life of anger and contempt, or so says Eric Anderson, an American sociologist at England's University of Winchester and author of the provocative new book, The Monogamy Gap: Men, Love, and the Reality of Cheating.

 

Cheating, however, serves men pretty well. An undiscovered affair allows them to keep their relationship and emotional intimacy, and even if they're busted it's a lot easier than admitting that they wanted to screw someone else in the first place, he writes.

In his study of 120 undergraduate men, 78 percent of those who had a partner cheated, "even though they said that they loved and intended to stay with their partner." Contrary to what we may think, most men aren't cheating because they don't love their partner, he says; they cheat because they just want to have sex with others. And society shouldn't pooh-pooh that.

Monogamy's stronghold on our beliefs -- what he calls monogamism -- brings ostracism and judgment to anyone who questions or strays from its boundaries. That doesn't make sense to Anderson, who wonders why we stigmatize someone who has a fling more than couples who divorce -- throwing away a marriage rich in history and love, upsetting their kids' lives -- over something like sex.

Monogamy isn't the only "proper" way to be in a relationship, and he says it's time that society finds "multiple forms of acceptable sexual relationship types -- including sexually open relationships -- that coexist without hierarchy or hegemony." It's especially important for today's young men, for whom monogamous sex seems more boring than in generations past because of easy premarital sex and pornography.

Dr. Anderson was kind enough to answer my questions by email:

Your study includes just 120 undergraduate men, straight and gay; isn't that too small a sample to really know what's going on for men?

If I were attempting to determine what percent of men cheat, then, yes. Large-scale surveys show us that cheating remains the norm... I wanted to examine the very notion of monogamy, not morally, but rationally. I wanted to know why men want monogamy but nonetheless cheat.

 

You say men want to be emotionally monogamous, but their "body craves sex with other people somatically." People crave food, drugs, booze, sometimes to disastrous results. If there can be self-control with other cravings, why can't men control their body urges?

Humans are largely lousy at controlling our bodies' desires. We say we don't want to eat that Snickers bar, but we also really do want to eat it. We eat it, we feel guilty about it, and afterwards we promise ourselves not to eat one again; but we nonetheless do. It is this same phenomenon, only with cheating, that I explore.

The men in your study experienced a sharp decrease in the frequency and enjoyment of sex after two monogamous years. Since no one can sustain the kind of thrilling sex couples have in the beginning of a relationship, isn't it a healthy thing that it decreases?

I wish young men got two years of good sex before it dropped off; it's a lot less than that! It may, however, be good that the sexual desire for one's partner weans; it means that we end up staying with our long-term partners for the socioemotional connection and not for the sex. If a couple is going to raise a family, it is the emotional connection that counts, not the sexual.

Our physical desires don't die; they just change from our partner to people other than him/her. We falsely believe that when the sex dies, the relationship has also died. The reality is the opposite; when the sex dies the relationship has just begun.

What about the idea that long-term relationships make sex become deeper, more intimate and more meaningful?

The diminution of sex is simultaneous to one's emotional bonds growing stronger. Long-term partners may have more intimate sex (most just have very little) but when men see a guy or girl who turns them on, it's not intimate and meaningful sex they are craving.

Honesty is a huge part of a relationship. How good a relationship can one have when there's deception, especially since you say after men cheat spontaneously, they are more likely to plan cheating?

Honesty is good sometimes, and horrible other times. There are good reasons to lie; it is an essential skill for keeping community and relationship peace. The reason men lie about cheating is mostly because they know that if they ask for permission to have recreational sex: 1) they will be denied 2) after they are denied, they will be subject to scrutiny and increased relationship policing; 3) they will be stigmatized as immoral, and most likely broken up with. Thus, honesty doesn't meet their desires of having both a long-term partner and recreational sex with others.

The way cheating men see it, it's either cheat or don't cheat, but telling their partners they want sex outside the relationship, or telling their partners that they actually cheated, is viewed as a surefire way of achieving relationship termination. When men cheat for recreational sex -- not affairs -- they DO love their partners. If they didn't, they would break up with them.

Wouldn't it be less harmful to relationships if we became serial monogamists -- marrying two, three or four times as our sexual needs change?

Rather than marrying 20 times or more in one's life via serial monogamy, we can keep one emotional lover and just have casual, meaningless -- and hot -- sex with strangers. This gives us the long-term emotional stability we desire psychologically, alongside the hot, carnal sex we desire somatically. It makes much more sense than lying and cheating , or the difficulty of breaking up with a loved one simply because you want someone else's body for an hour.

Infidelity breaks up many marriages, but often it isn't the act of sex that's so upsetting -- it's the deception and lying, clearly problematic for the emotional intimacy you say men want. So cheating for sex may be "just about the sex" for him, but not for his partner.

Infidelity does not break marriages up; it is the unreasonable expectation that a marriage must restrict sex that breaks a marriage up. One of the reasons I wrote the book is that I've seen so many long-term relationships broken up simply because one had sex outside the relationship. But feeling victimized isn't a natural outcome of casual sex outside a relationship; it is a socialized victimhood. I'm not advocating cheating; I'm advocating open and equitable sexual relationships. When both in the couple desire this, when both realize that extradyadic sex makes their partner happy, and they therefore want their partner to have that sex, a couple will have moved a long ways toward facilitating emotional honesty, while simultaneously withering at jealousy scripts, which can be very damaging to a relationship. But if one can't achieve this with a partner that's hostile to the idea, cheating is the reasonable action.

Most of the men in your study were OK with sex on the side for them, but not their girlfriends. That seems unfair and incredibly selfish.

Monogamy is culturally compelled, so the decision has been made for us. How much of a chance would a man stand to have a second date if on the first date he said that he was interested in an open relationship? At the point men enter into relationships they, too, think they want monogamy. It's only after being in a relationship for months or years that they badly want sex with others. But by this point, they don't want to break up with their partners because they have long-standing love. Instead of chancing that love by asking for extradyadic sex, they cheat. If they don't get caught (and most don't) it's a rational choice.

But it is indeed selfish for men to want sex with others but not to want their partners to do the same. This however is not just a "man" thing. Women also cheat; they also lie about it; and they also want to be able to cheat without their partners doing the same. Monogamy is a problem for all sexes; it builds in an ownership script regardless of gender.

You say love is a "long-standing sense of security and comfort." So, wouldn't open relationships potentially pose a threat to that security since, even if couples play by their own sexual rules, there's always a chance one could end up preferring a new lover over one's partner?

People in open relationships structure their engagements as to reduce emotional intimacy. But, yes, of course it can happen. What I find from those in open relationships, however, is that once they have had sex with that person they fancied, they tend to get over them.

If we really want to prevent our lovers from developing the lust of others, or worse, emotional intimacy with others; if we really want to prevent men and women from cheating, we would be best to sex-segregate our jobs, our classrooms and social arenas, too. Emotional intimacy is the real threat to a relationship, not a one-off hour with a stranger from Craigslist. Ultimately, there are no guarantees that one's partner won't find love elsewhere. But controlling one's partner to prevent it only makes matters worse -- it makes them want to leave you. A better strategy is to be open, emotionally and perhaps sexually, too.

Edited January 16, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed sale information and relocated to proper forum

[yellowmaverick]

Ridiculous! This article is basically saying that men cheat because they are wired to do so...convenient position for those who never blame themselves for their own choices.

 

The article is offensive to those men who are honest, decent, and faithful.....it's all about character.

[BeingMe]

cough [soundslikeitswrittenbyacheater] cough

 

The reason people get upset about adultery is the lies and broken vows. The choice of the betrayed person to remain in the relationship or not, is taken away from them, often for years.

 

The reason people cheat is because they're too broken/cowardly to end their relationship first or talk to their spouse about having an open relationship. With such a lack of emotional openness, how can there be true emotional intimacy? He's talking out of his bottom.

[Ap22]

Ridiculous! This article is basically saying that men cheat because they are wired to do so...convenient position for those who never blame themselves for their own choices.

 

The article is offensive to those men who are honest, decent, and faithful.....it's all about character.

 

Totally agree! Just another article blaming everything but the individual for our problems. People cheat because they are weak, selfish, and/or lack moral character.

 

I'm a male and have never cheated on anyone, even going back to high school. I had chances, but never acted on them.

 

When I am in a relationship with someone, I'm in it because they are better than anyone else to me. There is no one I'd rather sleep with than my wife.

[darkmoon]

so where are the women going to come from to meet the needs of these roving men? and if there are equal numbers to go round, well, the woman are into infidelity too

 

 

not that I would bother being a side-piece, no

[Shepp]

Ridiculous! This article is basically saying that men cheat because they are wired to do so...convenient position for those who never blame themselves for their own choices.

 

The article is offensive to those men who are honest, decent, and faithful.....it's all about character.

THANK YOU!!

 

 

I've said it a million times before and i'll keep saying it everytime I see one of these stupid men/women/humans aren't monogamous articles or threads or whatever!!

 

I'm a man aren't I? I'm human aren't I? I do I not count because I don't conform to these BS statements people make up and throw around to feel better about there own cheating?

 

The fact of the matter is I do count! And I'm 100% monogamous. Its not about if she'd find out or how hot the girl is or the state of our relationship - its about the fact that I, have no desire to be with more than one girl.

There are no exemplary circumstances - I'm not going to live the rest of my life not being able to look the man in the mirror in the eye.

 

I can't begin to fathom why people cheat. I don't understand it. And I certainly don't understand this BS science about being wired to do something that I will never do - not because i'm choosing not to but because there simply is no other choice. Line up the last decade of miss worlds naked in my garden - I only want my girlfriend! I could be stuck in an elevator for 5 days with Cheryl Cole and there would be no temptation to cheat on my gf!

 

 

I agree, I do find it pretty offensive! I don't want to be tarred with some brush just because some blokes CHOOSE not to keep it in there pants. Theres nothing natural about it, its a choice they make.

 

So there you go - Im a human, i'm a man and i'm monogamous. Wired like it. Bet im not the only one! Does that blow your theories?

[JamesM]

Here we go again.

 

No, men are no more wired to cheat than women.

 

Yes, it does take discipline and prevention to not cheat.

 

No, it is not about character. People with bad characters don't always cheat. People with good characters can cheat.

 

Today's non-cheater can be tomorrow's cheater. Today's cheater was a non-cheater yesterday.

 

Most every cheater said prior to his or her affair that he or she would never and has never cheated.

 

While I have said and will say again, I am as capable of cheating as the next guy, I can also say that based on my history, I know I can stay out of affairs, too.

 

Am I wired to cheat? Perhaps, but I don't think so. Is it my character that determines what choices I make? Nope. That is my own choice and responsibility.

 

A couple of comments re article....

Cheating, however, serves men pretty well. An undiscovered affair allows them to keep their relationship and emotional intimacy, and even if they're busted it's a lot easier than admitting that they wanted to screw someone else in the first place, he writes.

 

I agree with this to a degree. It is a bandaid for a bad relationship but it is not a cure.

 

What about the idea that long-term relationships make sex become deeper, more intimate and more meaningful?

The diminution of sex is simultaneous to one's emotional bonds growing stronger. Long-term partners may have more intimate sex (most just have very little) but when men see a guy or girl who turns them on, it's not intimate and meaningful sex they are craving.

 

Having been married, I don't think sex becomes more deeper or meaningful past a certain amount of years. In fact, IME, it becomes too predictable. That does not mean it isn't enjoyable or better than a one night stand, but just as variety is the spice of life in every other area of life, so it is with sex. And a new partner may add just the variety desired for some who cheat.

 

Infidelity does not break marriages up; it is the unreasonable expectation that a marriage must restrict sex that breaks a marriage up.

 

Uh, no. It is the lying and the breaking of the commitment that breaks them up. If the commitment had been one of an open marriage, then sex outside of marriage would not be cheating. It is not the unreasonable expectation but it IS the expectation that has been created based on the commitment made by each person to each other.

 

How much of a chance would a man stand to have a second date if on the first date he said that he was interested in an open relationship? At the point men enter into relationships they, too, think they want monogamy. It's only after being in a relationship for months or years that they badly want sex with others.

 

Agree. And how many women or men would marry someone knowing that the other wanted to marry with the allowance of still having sex with others? Most who cheat not only WANT monogamy, they expect to be monogamous. What makes them seek sex usually is not the desire of hot sex outside of marriage but the desire to fulfill something missing in their own marriage or within themselves.

 

Interesting article with an interesting viewpoint.

 

Shepp, I had to google Cheryle Cole.

Edited January 16, 2014 by JamesM

[BOREDouttaMymind]

I wonder why 3 of my ex girlfriends cheated and I never did.

[Shepp]

Shepp, I had to google Cheryle Cole.

I was unaware there were people unexposed to the beauty that is Cheryl Cole! In that case, your very welcome mate!

 

Yes, it does take discipline and prevention to not cheat.

I disagree.....I know you know I disagree...But I just can't quite help myself...

 

I was in town the other day and so I glanced in the jewellers window at engagement rings, I just wanted a rough idea of price.

There was a gorgeous ring, undeniably beautiful but a good £2500 over anything like I'd spend!

Would you say it takes discipline for me not to steal it? Of course it doesn't - I don't have to control myself, or prevent myself or do anything at all to stop me stealing it.

There's no way in a million years I'd ever steal it, or dream of doing so, or want to for that matter, my conscious, that voice in your head, would stop me every single time, without question or doubt.

 

I have no desire to, like I have no desire to go and key my car, and I have no desire to cheat...and there's no discipline involved where there's no desire.

 

No, it is not about character. People with bad characters don't always cheat. People with good characters can cheat.

How do you judge good or bad character if you don't judge it on actions. Actions are you character surely, otherwise your character would just become the self proclaimed stuff you write at the top of you CV.

 

I'm not saying people who cheat instantly have bad characters, but I do believe it instantly shows they have the ability within their character to cheat.

 

Most who cheat not only WANT monogamy, they expect to be monogamous. What makes them seek sex usually is not the desire of hot sex outside of marriage but the desire to fulfill something missing in their own marriage or within themselves.

I find myself unable to understand that! If you really desired something missing in your relationship(or self) you'd attempt to fix it. Cheating is no fix and no fulfilment.

Its a way to destroy a relationship where you can avoid taking it upon yourself to stand up and either voice a problem, if there is one and work on it. Or walk away in order to find greener grass.

And it's taking away your partners right to free choice, or to seek fulfilment in the form of a monogamous relationship.

 

Most every cheater said prior to his or her affair that he or she would never and has never cheated[/Quote]

This is why talks cheap and actions are everything!

[TaraMaiden]

I disagree.....I know you know I disagree...But I just can't quite help myself...

 

I was in town the other day and so I glanced in the jewellers window at engagement rings, I just wanted a rough idea of price.

There was a gorgeous ring, undeniably beautiful but a good £2500 over anything like I'd spend!

Would you say it takes discipline for me not to steal it? Of course it doesn't - I don't have to control myself, or prevent myself or do anything at all to stop me stealing it.

There's no way in a million years I'd ever steal it, or dream of doing so, or want to for that matter, my conscious, that voice in your head, would stop me every single time, without question or doubt

It also happens to be illegal, and you can be arrested, charged and incarcerated. You could serve a sentence for stealing it.

cheating - or more specifically, Monogamy - is not comparable.

 

I have no desire to, like I have no desire to go and key my car, and I have no desire to cheat...and there's no discipline involved where there's no desire.

This is very true.

But you can believe this or not: Your complete revulsion at cheating and total dedication to remaining monogamous, is not wired. it's programmed.

 

As a mammal, with no literal education, or any form of civilised upbringing, you would in all probability cheat.

But you're human, and you hve learnt a specific behaviour to which you rigorously adhere.

Good for you, truly. no sarcasm at all, and hats off to you for your attitude.

But it's learnt, not wired.

It's programmed, not conditioned.

 

How do you judge good or bad character if you don't judge it on actions. Actions are you character surely, otherwise your character would just become the self proclaimed stuff you write at the top of you CV.

You can only 'judge 'good' or 'bad' according to your own specific learnt and programmed set of parameters.

A devout priest is always going to say that adultery is bad.

But he's also going to say that sex before marriage is bad too.

 

In your mind, is he right on one thing but wrong in the other?

 

You see, it all depends on what we have absorbed, and how we have processed it.

 

I'm not saying people who cheat instantly have bad characters, but I do believe it instantly shows they have the ability within their character to cheat.

We all have.

It's just that some - like you - choose to absolutely totally shun that possibility, and refuse to entertain it.

And that's ok.

 

 

I find myself unable to understand that! If you really desired something missing in your relationship(or self) you'd attempt to fix it. Cheating is no fix and no fulfilment.

Sadly, although I fear you are correct on the first, it would appear for many people who DO cheat, that they DO find some measure of fulfilment.

It deals with something, to begin with, at least....

 

Its a way to destroy a relationship where you can avoid taking it upon yourself to stand up and either voice a problem, if there is one and work on it. Or walk away in order to find greener grass.

 

There is no clear distinct 'either one or the other'. There are many people who have been unfaithful, or have been in a relationship with an unfaithful partner, who have not only overcome the infidelity, but they have grown stronger as a couple.

So sometimes, it's not a destructive option, in the long run, although naturally it depends on how the protagonists view it.

 

And it's taking away your partners right to free choice, or to seek fulfilment in the form of a monogamous relationship.

If Monogamous relationships were 'natural' or everything they were truly be cut out to be - you'd still be with your first love - and so would we all.

 

Serial monogamy is the socially accepted norm. But constant and permanent monogamy does not exist in our culture.

 

 

This is why talks cheap and actions are everything!

[Eau Claire]

Another 'expert' article...akin to guys going to Youtube to listen to so some 20 year old dispense advice on how to attract a woman.

 

All rather silly speculation.

[JamesM]

I was unaware there were people unexposed to the beauty that is Cheryl Cole! In that case, your very welcome mate!

 

So you are tempting a married man!

 

 

I disagree.....I know you know I disagree...But I just can't quite help myself...

 

As soon as I saw your post, I knew we would be talking.

 

I was in town the other day and so I glanced in the jewellers window at engagement rings, I just wanted a rough idea of price.

There was a gorgeous ring, undeniably beautiful but a good £2500 over anything like I'd spend!

Would you say it takes discipline for me not to steal it? Of course it doesn't - I don't have to control myself, or prevent myself or do anything at all to stop me stealing it.

 

Everyone has different desires. Everyone has times where one day they do something that another they may not. This doesn't mean they will.

 

Yes, I think it takes self-discipline and control not to take that ring. But it also helps that you know you will probably get caught.

 

You mention Cheryl. My temptation would be Helene Fischer (google her and then watch her on youtube. I don't even have to know German to know I like her. ) But I think I have the ability (as do you) to project into the future about what ramifications an affair in an elevator would have on my life or me. Many who cheat are clouded and do not think beyond today's pleasure. I have used a phrase before....is the pleasure worth the pain? And reminding myself of that can stop me from alot.

 

There's no way in a million years I'd ever steal it, or dream of doing so, or want to for that matter, my conscious, that voice in your head, would stop me every single time, without question or doubt.

 

I know you get mad when I say this, but never say never.

 

I have no desire to, like I have no desire to go and key my car, and I have no desire to cheat...and there's no discipline involved where there's no desire.

 

THIS. This is so true. BUT you forget one small word you used there: desire. The problem for all of us is not doing something we shouldn't when we DON"T want to. It is NOT doing something we shouldn't when we WANT to.

 

It takes no discipline or self-control when we have no desire. As you like to say, character is shown when we are faced with a decision that is hard for us to make.

 

If I am stuck in the elevator and I really really want Helene, then it would take self-control. But if I am stuck there and I don't want to have sex with her, then it would be easy to say no.

 

How do you judge good or bad character if you don't judge it on actions. Actions are you character surely, otherwise your character would just become the self proclaimed stuff you write at the top of you CV.

 

True.

 

But do I judge you on today's actions only, or can I judge your character based on what you may do?

 

You say you will never cheat (don't get mad! ) as an example, but IF next year you do, then do I now judge you on that? Does your past make you a good person until you do something that you define as a bad person?

 

Actions speak louder than words, but all actions are not known until our life is over.

 

I'm not saying people who cheat instantly have bad characters, but I do believe it instantly shows they have the ability within their character to cheat.

 

And today's non-cheater could be tomorrow's cheater. Today's lack of ability to cheat may lead to a lack of self-control tomorrow.

 

I simply say that we all have the ability to cheat. How we prevent that from happening is what determines our future and who we are. Having such strong resolve as you do (and yes, I admire and respect that) is one excellent way of preventing ones self from cheating.

 

 

I find myself unable to understand that! If you really desired something missing in your relationship(or self) you'd attempt to fix it. Cheating is no fix and no fulfilment.

 

I agree. But then ask a hungry man why he would fill up with food that is bad for him. Hunger and desire can make us choose horrible choices.

 

Its a way to destroy a relationship where you can avoid taking it upon yourself to stand up and either voice a problem, if there is one and work on it. Or walk away in order to find greener grass.

 

Agree. But then we wouldn't have this discussion if everyone knew this when faced with such temptations during weak times.

 

And it's taking away your partners right to free choice, or to seek fulfilment in the form of a monogamous relationship.

 

Agree.

 

This is why talks cheap and actions are everything!

 

Agree. We can say that we will never do something, but if we do not follow up with a mental plan of prevention or show that our words reflect our "character," then we are nothing but a hypocrite.

 

And never forget.....I read it all of the time.....

 

"He never thought he would cheat." "I never thought I could cheat."

 

But as I heard one man say who was caught with child porn, "Once you make one choice and allow yourself to enjoy it, then the next step is not as difficult. And once you embark on that path, then you can never know where it will take you even though part of you wants off, part of you can no longer stop."

[JamesM]

 

I disagree.....I know you know I disagree...But I just can't quite help myself...

 

 

WAIT! Did I read this correctly?

 

You had no control over your response to me?

 

Now I couldn't help myself when I reread this!

[Shepp]

It also happens to be illegal, and you can be arrested, charged and incarcerated. You could serve a sentence for stealing it.

Right, but is that what stops you taking it?

It wouldn't matter to be if I could get away with it - id still know I took it and that was wrong and I don't see the gratification in even possessing something you didn't work for.

 

 

But you can believe this or not: Your complete revulsion at cheating and total dedication to remaining monogamous, is not wired. it's programmed

As a mammal, with no literal education, or any form of civilised upbringing, you would in all probability cheat.

But you're human, and you hve learnt a specific behaviour to which you rigorously adhere.

Maybe so, I don't pretend to be a scientist and know the inner workings of the brain or anything. All I know is how I feel - and I know by the way I feel about cheating and monogamy ( monogamity? Monogaminousness? ...I don't know the word ) is that i'm most definitely not wired for multiple partners as the article seems to suggest

 

 

You can only 'judge 'good' or 'bad' according to your own specific learnt and programmed set of parameters.

A devout priest is always going to say that adultery is bad.

But he's also going to say that sex before marriage is bad too.

In your mind, is he right on one thing but wrong in the other?

True, of course people have different ideas of good and bad, but I think they should be formed on the actions of others and not their words.

 

As for you priest yeah to me one opinions right and ones wrong, but equally to me Manchester united are the best club in the world and Manchester city fans are clearly deluded.....but my opinion on his character would be judged on his physical actions. Same as a guy I work with who's a city fan - I think his opinion is wrong but the actions he makes in his life are, to me, honourable, so I find his character to be good.

 

Sadly, although I fear you are correct on the first, it would appear for many people who DO cheat, that they DO find some measure of fulfilment.

True, some do appear to, and how they do I can't comprehend. That's why I don't get it.

 

There is no clear distinct 'either one or the other'. There are many people who have been unfaithful, or have been in a relationship with an unfaithful partner, who have not only overcome the infidelity, but they have grown stronger as a couple.

So sometimes, it's not a destructive option, in the long run, although naturally it depends on how the protagonists view it.

True.

But some couples don't get past it. I personally could stay with someone who took that gamble on our relationship.

 

If Monogamous relationships were 'natural' or everything they were truly be cut out to be - you'd still be with your first love - and so would we all.

I am

 

...Like a beaver! They do it! Stay with there first love till one of them dies

[Shepp]

Argh just pressed back and lost this whole post - second time lucky!

 

So you are tempting a married man!

no man - im purely talking about her singing ability - what else

 

 

Yes, I think it takes self-discipline and control not to take that ring. But it also helps that you know you will probably get caught.

But with both stealing a ring and cheating, I don't need to be caught by anyone else because those repercussions wouldn't be as bad as the ones id place on myself.

 

You mention Cheryl. My temptation would be Helene Fischer (google her and then watch her on youtube. I don't even have to know German to know I like her. )

You should know I first googled Helen Fisher without the c....turns out its a pretty important c

 

But I think I have the ability (as do you) to project into the future about what ramifications an affair in an elevator would have on my life or me. Many who cheat are clouded and do not think beyond today's pleasure. I have used a phrase before....is the pleasure worth the pain? And reminding myself of that can stop me from alot.

True.

 

I know you get mad when I say this, but never say never.

I don't think im whiter than white - i'm not, i'm so not.

and im not saying id never steal - would I steal food if my sons were on the street starving - you bet I would, id take any repercussion for them.

 

But would I steal a ring - never. Because theres no purpose to it - if a girl needs a fancy ring off me then im wrong guy for her, and she clearly doesn't love me that much.

 

THIS. This is so true. BUT you forget one small word you used there: desire. The problem for all of us is not doing something we shouldn't when we DON"T want to. It is NOT doing something we shouldn't when we WANT to.

100% agree

 

It takes no discipline or self-control when we have no desire. As you like to say, character is shown when we are faced with a decision that is hard for us to make.

Absolutely

 

If I am stuck in the elevator and I really really want Helene, then it would take self-control. But if I am stuck there and I don't want to have sex with her, then it would be easy to say no.

Right, totally, but that's how it always is for me (particularly in an elevator because id be having a little claustrophobic fit) - I have no desire to cheat so it takes no self discipline or prevention. Hence this "men aren't built for monogamy" can't be right because its not like I have a low sex drive, but monogamy always comes first. Loyalty comes above everything else.

 

 

But do I judge you on today's actions only, or can I judge your character based on what you may do?

You say you will never cheat (don't get mad! ) as an example, but IF next year you do, then do I now judge you on that? Does your past make you a good person until you do something that you define as a bad person?

hypothetically then...

Totally you judge me on that! Because I would judge myself on that! I would instantaneously be irreversibly different man in my own eyes, till the day I die I would know that could never be undone.

I could not do it again, but i'd always of done it - i'd never forgive myself so I certainly wouldn't expect you or anyone else to!

 

Its like my football coach says - your only ever as good as your last match! Last season is just a memory.

 

I simply say that we all have the ability to cheat. How we prevent that from happening is what determines our future and who we are. Having such strong resolve as you do (and yes, I admire and respect that) is one excellent way of preventing ones self from cheating.

right we all have the ability to physically have sex with someone other than our partner, of course.

I dunno though - it sure doesn't feel like it takes much prevention...well at least it doesn't consciously take any prevention.

 

And never forget.....I read it all of the time.....

 

"He never thought he would cheat." "I never thought I could cheat."

Right, but in those cases it was never true, it was just a case of circumstances coming together. There are no circumstance that would ever come together that would make me sell myself short by my own standard.

[Shepp]

WAIT! Did I read this correctly?

 

You had no control over your response to me?

 

Now I couldn't help myself when I reread this!

 

haha yep!!

 

Not cheating - I find it easy! Not replying to your post though - I don't have the self discipline for that!!

[MrCastle]

Interesting. And why do women cheat?

[TheGuard13]

The same reasons men do.

 

 

There's a lot of truth in the article, and it's annoying to see people just write it all off as "The only reason men cheat is that they're *******s". What it comes down to most of the time is "It was easier than the alternative". Why do we live in a world where that is the case? The system of monogamy we have in most cultures is a flawed one, and does not work for many people. But, like any system, god help you if you want to work outside it.

 

 

Honestly, anymore I think the problem is the value we assign sex in our culture. It's seen as this sacred thing, and I don't necessarily think it needs to be.

Edited January 16, 2014 by TheGuard13

[yellowmaverick]

The same reasons men do.

 

 

There's a lot of truth in the article, and it's annoying to see people just write it all off as "The only reason men cheat is that they're *******s". What it comes down to most of the time is "It was easier than the alternative". Why do we live in a world where that is the case? The system of monogamy we have in most cultures is a flawed one, and does not work for many people. But, like any system, god help you if you want to work outside it.

 

 

Honestly, anymore I think the problem is the value we assign sex in our culture. It's seen as this sacred thing, and I don't necessarily think it needs to be.

 

Monogamy is not a "system" - it's a choice!! No one is forced to take a vow of monogamy and faithfulness. Some people KNOW that they cannot be faithful and that is okay.... as long as they are not deceiving someone else and subjecting an unsuspecting partner to STDs.

 

 

"Working outside the system", as you put it (or lying and wh****g around, as more accurately describes it) is immoral and extremely destructive. If someone does not want to be monogamous....fine. He/she should just have the cajones to be honest about it.

[Morgoth]

Monogamy is not a "system" - it's a choice!! No one is forced to take a vow of monogamy and faithfulness. Some people KNOW that they cannot be faithful and that is okay.... as long as they are not deceiving someone else and subjecting an unsuspecting partner to STDs.

 

 

"Working outside the system", as you put it (or lying and wh****g around, as more accurately describes it) is immoral and extremely destructive. If someone does not want to be monogamous....fine. He/she should just have the cajones to be honest about it.

 

 

I suppose you get to decide what is moral and what is not? Please provide some peer reviewed data to support your position. Are you refering to women that sleep with married men, or any man outside of marriage as the whores one might be whoring around with? Our culture has condtioned women to supress their sexuality and you with your sterotyping are the perfect example. No disrespect to you personally by the way, just your post.

 

The author is a sociologist, perhaps a phD, a trained researcher and scholar and most likely extremely good with statistics and data sets. People want to ignore our evoloutionairy biology, hence there are sites like these. Women cheat for the same reason men do, except they seem more conflicted about it.

[Zenstudent]

I don't have any problems with men or women seeking sexual, emotional or whatever gratification, wherever they need it, whenever they need it, and with the person they feel they need it from - follow all your wired, learned or hidden non-monogamous itches.

 

Just be honest about it, why is that so hard, if it is so right and justified? Do you really believe that dishonesty is the new moral or ethical lighthouse? That we should take a few steps back in evolution?

 

It seems we're about 50/50 in our beliefs - so I'm really considering if it's about time I see the light and convert.

[yellowmaverick]

I suppose you get to decide what is moral and what is not? Please provide some peer reviewed data to support your position. Are you refering to women that sleep with married men, or any man outside of marriage as the whores one might be whoring around with? Our culture has condtioned women to supress their sexuality and you with your sterotyping are the perfect example. No disrespect to you personally by the way, just your post.

 

The author is a sociologist, perhaps a phD, a trained researcher and scholar and most likely extremely good with statistics and data sets. People want to ignore our evoloutionairy biology, hence there are sites like these. Women cheat for the same reason men do, except they seem more conflicted about it.

 

My issue is not with people sleeping around. My issue is with people who are involved in an affair when one or both of the partners is married. [The wh****g around refers to ANYONE (man or woman) who is a party in an affair]. The DECEIT is the issue - not the SEX. Do you seriously not understand that???? I suppose that there are people who are okay with their partners lying to them and deceiving them about their fidelity - I am just not one of those people. I deal with people honestly, and I ask for the same in return.

 

And the sociologist?? That's laughable. You can pull a dozen lists of occupations most likely to cheat (statistically) and psychologist/psychiatrist/sociologist will be on every list. I will hold my opinion on what I think about the people I personally know who are in those professions.

 

Obviously, I cannot provide "data" to support my moral position. IMO, a person either has character and a moral code, or he/she does not. It's really that simple.

Edited January 17, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Editorial comments redacted

[Monm82]

A lot of men are only as faithful as their options. Most of the time, it's not about unhappiness or being an *******. Most men are just obsessed with sex.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Monm82

[nescafe1982]

Um, did anyone else note that this "researcher's" sample was comprised entirely of undergraduate college boys?

 

Yeah. That might say more than anything else about his "findings" on monogamy.

 

How many 18-22 year old frat boys do you find waxing poetic about wanting to sex up one woman for the rest of their lives?

[rumbleseat]

When I see all the ads for Viagra, cialis, etc, it sometimes makes me wonder if if men are being programmed to want as much sex-/ possible in order to make big pharmacas much money as possible