What is the whole problem with infidelity v. marriage?

[Cressida]

I've been going back and forth on this forum and I would like to ask a few questions to anybody who would like to answer...at the end of the day we are all here for a reason, we need to find answers...or just other people's opinions.

 

I am an OW and I'm not very happy about it. My biggest puzzle is not the situation at hand but married people's attitudes. Let me explain myself.

 

A few weeks ago I read a thread started by a gentleman who spoke about his affair and his lack of remorse, as well as of his attempts to make his marriage work despite still being in love with the OW. Lots of replies, lots of questions, etc. What boggled me was a reply of another gentleman who said that the OW was to be seen as 'a cancer' to his marriage, a rot, something that had to be eliminated as soon as possible if the marriage was to work again. Boy oh boy! And another one who spoke about his affairs and admitted that he's basically back with his W out of fear of being thrown out on the street as they'd have to split all assets and he wouldn't be able to afford a house on his own.

 

Leaving aside the fact that I personally don't agree with such statements, my question(s) is /are....what the hell, people? Since when marriage has become this horrible, angry beast that people's purpose in life is to tame? 'Save your marriage', 'fight for it', do this, do that....

 

Q2, is it that 99% of 'working-it-out marriages' end up in this state (i.e. trying to fix it) because of financial reasons? I beg to believe so....a while ago I posted about my story myself and most BS or even other OW I suspect said stuff like 'a man gets back with his wife because he loves her', 'he's never left in the first place' etc. I'm not talking about the serial-internet- porn-MM-user going after a few girls at the same time, screwing then dumping them after 3 months tops. I'm talking about 'relationships', albeit extra-marital.

 

My (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.

 

This 'marriage' became such a huge thing, a mountain to climb, a river to cross, a tornado to fight, as if the married couple is the only married couple in the world and their 'survival' (of the marriage) is what the propagation of the species depends upon.

 

I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same. Yes, it's hard, yes, it's ****ty that someone cheated, it's not cool, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

 

I think it's exactly this pressure that makes a human being want to stray, and if it's SERIOUS enough to make a man want to divorce/live his life with someone else, then why not just let him do it?

 

All those BS who claim their husbands came crawling back, crying crocodile tears, kissing their feet and swearing upon six gods that they never loved anyone else but them, it was just a mistake and it 'didn't mean anything' (my favorite), does anyone believe they're just lying to themselves? If those men were millionaires would they REALLY be crawling back and want to stay and not go about their lives as they don't have any problem with finances?

 

Another 5-star thing I've seen around here is women who say 'he threw away our life together and his family, his children, for another woman'- I think it's wrong to assume that just because a man doesn't want to be with you anymore, you should adopt this wrong attitude and extrapolate it to his children. Why not letting the man be a father to his kids (obviously, I'm talking about men who were always fathers to their children and not baby daddies and other creeps) and accepting that the only dynamic that has changed is his relationship with YOU and not his children? Why be selfish and put your children in the same boat with yourself?

 

*scratching head*

[William]

As a review of this member's account shows them to not be currently married, this thread, focusing on married people, is therefore moved to the most appropriate forum, OM/OW, relevant to their stated state as an OW, and the discussion may continue here. The infidelity forum is for married/life partnership members who are in an affair or suspect their spouse of an affair. Thanks!

[sidney2718]

There are a lot of answers to your questions. I can only touch on a few of them.

 

As I'm sure you know, folks meet someone and fall in love. The love isn't reciprocated and the relationship goes nowhere. That's easy. This is a common situation. Another common situation is that once in a relationship, one partner, for whatever reason, falls out of love with their partner. This is a much more difficult situation. If the couple is married, they've made a lifetime commitment and there is no easy way out without a great deal of pain.

 

Perhaps we should not make lifetime commitments. Could we institute 25 year marriages with an automatic expiration date? I have no idea. But the situation when one person loses love in a marriage is always very difficult.

 

Worse, the situation is not symmetric between men and women. In most cases women who want to leave are afraid that there won't be money enough to survive. Stay at home wives especially suffer from this. If one reads various threads here one sees this over and over again. This is a thousand times worse if there are children involved.

 

Most of the men feel that on divorce they will somehow make it, but even there money will be tight, moreso if there are children.

 

So folks try to hang on to their marriage. Women in particular often fight very hard to keep their husbands. And that's the way it is today.

 

And there is also the social stigma. Despite the fact that at least 50% of all relationships in the US end in divorce or break-ups, divorced folks, especially women, are often looked down upon.

 

I know that I've only dealt with some of your questions. And I know that others will disagree with me. That's fine. This could be an interesting discussion.

[awkward]

If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same.

 

*scratching head*

 

Yet they don't go. Perhaps he was lying when he said he TRULY wants someone else. Women don't hold their husbands hostage. If they want to go, they go. If they don't, they don't. More likely they leave when forced to by their betrayed wives, kicking, screaming, begging, pleading, etc.

 

Don't believe everything a MM says to you. He is a liar.

[oldshirt]

I'm not sure I'm entirely understanding your questions but I'll take a stab at a few things.

 

 

In regard to the "cancer" statement, yes, if you want your spouses focus, respect, appreciation, desire etc you pretty much do need to cut the OW/OM out like a cancer.

 

 

Much of married life is not romantic, sexy, intimate, passionate, fun etc etc. a lot of it is not even enjoyable or even pleasant for that matter. if the majority of your married life is even tolerable you are doing pretty good.

 

 

If there are 168 hours in a week and 165 or more are spent going to work, changing diapers, paying bills, doing laundry/dishes/vacuuming, shoveling the driveway, changing the oil in the car, replacing the shingles that blew off, picking the kids up from school and taking them to soccer etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and you only have an hour or two or three of where you can have some sexy fun time in a week I'll be dammed if I am gonna let some other dude be having that sexy fun time with my wife instead of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Time with affair partners is pretty much strictly fun time with hot and passionate and unhibited sex. APs don't have to deal with the diapers and the dirty laundry and the nasty tampons in trash or the floaters left in the toilet bowl. It's all fun and passionate and sweaty etc so it's real easy for the wayward to start compartmentalizing their life. They divvy up their time like a mom divvying up household chores to the kids. Only a mom will try to divvy up chores with some semblance of equality in mind. Where as the wayward will leave scrubbing the skid marks out of the toilet bowl to the spouse and the hot, nasty porno sex to the AP.

 

 

Funk that!!

 

 

An affair partner IS a cancer that needs to be cut out if you want to survive and want at least some tiny bit of pleasure and happiness in it.

 

 

Cut it out, radiate it, and chemo it!! Then keep a close watch for it forever to make sure it never returns.

[Cressida]

Yet they don't go. Perhaps he was lying when he said he TRULY wants someone else. Women don't hold their husbands hostage. If they want to go, they go. If they don't, they don't. More likely they leave when forced to by their betrayed wives, kicking, screaming, begging, pleading, etc.

 

Don't believe everything a MM says to you. He is a liar.

 

It's not my situation,not at all. This isn't about what MM told me, it's about something I've seen on the forum a lot. It has nothing to do with my A.

 

Women CAN hold their husbands hostage particularly by resorting to what the reply above mentioned...social stigma, finances, children, 'taking vows' etc. I'm not talking about putting a gun to their head in the literal manner, but about the plethora of stuff they pull. Go through the infidelity section and you'll see some pain-inducing stories. They don't go precisely because of these reasons, OR in some cases, because the affair was ONLY an affair. I specifically mentioned that I'm not talking about a little roll in the haystack, but about relationships that can last for years. How can a woman assume her husband still loves her if he's been in an affair with another woman for YEARS and sometimes there are even children involved? (again, not my case)

[awkward]

The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

 

*scratching head*

 

Here is an alternate view

 

Some women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally by staying in an affair relationship rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

 

I guess it is all about perspective. I see many OW start their stories with I know it was wrong, but then go on to add paragraphs about how right it is and how bad her MM's betrayed wife is.

 

I can't wait until I can participate in a thread about MM's on this forum. It is almost always about the OW and BW here. The MM chooses to stay with his family and have an affair with his OW. He is the liar, cheater, and yet he is also the winner. Puke!

[oldshirt]

Also you always need to keep in mind that marriage from it's inception has always been a legal institution to protect parental rights and property rights and as a means of combining assets into a home for which to raise and nurture children.

 

 

It was never meant to be a romantic institution nor one to ensure happiness.

 

 

It's only been within the last century or so in western cultures that it has taken on any kind of romantic connotations at all.

 

 

love and sexual desire are fickle and fleeting things that come and go like morning fog. parenthood and parental rights and responsibilities are forever. Financial issues and property rights involved in marriage are ginormous.

 

 

You may fall out of love with your spouse but your property is still legally bound with them and it takes a lot of legal wrangling to separate it and then you are left with half of what you had the day before.....if it's fair and you didn't get screwed over.

 

 

And a millionaire isn't any more willing to part with half of his/her money and property than a thousandaire or a hundredaire.

 

 

and once you have a child with someone, you always have a child with them whether you are in love with or have sexual desire for someone else or not.

 

 

Your heart and your loins may belong to someone else but your children will always be between the parents for eternity.

 

 

Love and desire are mere feelings that ebb and flow and wax and wane throughout the day. Property, finances and children are tangible goods that are forever.

 

 

Marriage is a legal institution to protect the latter, not the former.

[awkward]

I specifically mentioned that I'm not talking about a little roll in the haystack, but about relationships that can last for years. How can a woman assume her husband still loves her if he's been in an affair with another woman for YEARS and sometimes there are even children involved? (again, not my case)

 

Yes affair relationships that last years, and are still affairs. MM still lying to his BS and to his OW. He is probably telling his wife he loves her. He may be lying but if she loves him, I can see where she would want to try. Why is the OW still there years later? He is probably telling her he loves her. He may be lying.

 

He lies.

[Just_AGuy]

I'd just google the chances of successful marriage born from infidelity. Last time I checked it was up to 5% (the highest estimate). It's either he will cheat on you, or you will cheat on him. Or you won't be able to trust each other because you know what are you capable of. So I don't think you would really benefit much from him leaving his family anyway.

[awkward]

 

Women CAN hold their husbands hostage particularly by resorting to what the reply above mentioned...social stigma, finances, children, 'taking vows' etc.

 

It is my opinion that if the MM truly cared about the above he would not have had an affair in the first place.

 

Is he worried that his wife is going to ruin his social stigma by telling everyone he is a cheat? No, he is a cheat and ruined himself.

 

Oh he is worried about finances. They are going to split their assets, probably 50/50. So if he is worried about finances, he probably doesn't want to divorce even if his wife wants to.

 

He is is worried about losing time with his children? Really, seriously? The time he could have spent with those very same children while he chose to spend time with his OW? He will still get to spend time with his children whether he leaves or his wife throws him out. Again if he is worried about time, then he probably wants to stay married whether his wife wants to or not.

 

Or is it how his children will view him? How do you think they are going to view their father, the cheater? They will know. They always find out.

 

These excuses are usually what the MM give the OW to stay married. I don't see how his wife is holding him hostage with these things. If she divorces him instead of the other way around, how does that make it better?

[Cressida]

Marriage is indeed a legal institution meant to protect assets but it's also always been grounded on 'free will', even if many times it wasn't the case. One cannot force someone to marry them or stay married to them because things have changed over the past century. Marriage is indeed a legal institution in which two people sign a contract on the basis of their feelings to begin with...otherwise we wouldn't be here.

 

My question isn't 'why don't all MM just leave their wives and just be with the OW, haha, I win!'. NOT.

 

My question is why do women stay with a cheating husband? Why don't they see that finances are what keeps that man by their side? The thread started by that guy who literally used the words 'out on the street' literally made me shiver. Is it this what we became?

 

Affairs are almost always started on the premise that he loves the OW and he'll leave. I have yet to read a thread here or hear by any chance of some OW who said 'hell yea, sc*rew that stupid spouse, let's hurt her!' or a MM to say 'hey, will you be my side piece? *zips up* catch ya later!'

 

One day I'll also get married and I don't want to find myself in this situation. Something like this happens, the man has to decide if he wants to be with me, not just stay under the same roof and play family. If he doesn't, we split everything we have, we find a civilized solution and that will be it. I won't accuse someone of WHY don't they love me anymore. It is what it is.

 

And about my own A- I wrote 'I am' an OW because I wrote about it before. I have finished my A with the MM several days ago. I am done, I feel perfectly at peace. No hard feelings, if you can believe this. I just decided it was better for me to be without him. If he decided to continue his marriage, for his OWN reasons- his choice and I wish him nothing but the best. If he doesn't- his choice again. None of my business anymore. His BS never found out (that I know of), so that's what it is.

[Cressida]

It is my opinion that if the MM truly cared about the above he would not have had an affair in the first place.

 

Is he worried that his wife is going to ruin his social stigma by telling everyone he is a cheat? No, he is a cheat and ruined himself.

 

Oh he is worried about finances. They are going to split their assets, probably 50/50. So if he is worried about finances, he probably doesn't want to divorce even if his wife wants to.

 

He is is worried about losing time with his children? Really, seriously? The time he could have spent with those very same children while he chose to spend time with his OW? He will still get to spend time with his children whether he leaves or his wife throws him out. Again if he is worried about time, then he probably wants to stay married whether his wife wants to or not.

 

Or is it how his children will view him? How do you think they are going to view their father, the cheater? They will know. They always find out.

 

These excuses are usually what the MM give the OW to stay married. I don't see how his wife is holding him hostage with these things. If she divorces him instead of the other way around, how does that make it better?

 

See, this is the question I had. Why do women inculcate this idea into their children's minds, that their father is 'the cheater'? He is more than that, he is their father. No matter what happens in the marital relationship he has with their mother, the paternal relationship he has with them shouldn't be affected by this. As long as he is exactly the same person he always was (I'd like to consider a normal relationship here, no abuse, deprivation, etc), why would they see him differently? What it is between him and his wife concerns them only, I don't think children get to be involved in all aspects of their parents' marital lives so this one doesn't concern them at the end of the day, it¨'s their parent's choice. As long as in case of a divorce, for example, fathers or WS in general remain the same with their children (attachment, time together, support, etc) I don't see why the children should stigmatize their parents for something it doesn't pertain to them.

[awkward]

One cannot force someone to marry them or stay married to them because things have changed over the past century.

 

See, we agree after all.

 

 

My question is why do women stay with a cheating husband?

 

Because the cheating husband tells her he loves her. It was a mistake. Throws his OW under the bus. Begs, pleads, says he will change. His wife wants to believe him because they are a family. They have a shared history and life. She loves him.

 

Now if you are talking about betrayed wives that stay with serial cheating men, my answer would be she stays because she wants to, just like him.

 

Affairs are almost always started on the premise that he loves the OW and he'll leave. I have yet to read a thread here or hear by any chance of some OW who said 'hell yea, sc*rew that stupid spouse, let's hurt her!' or a MM to say 'hey, will you be my side piece? *zips up* catch ya later!'

 

 

Pretend for a minute that MM says this. How many OW do you think will have an affair with him? Of course, he will not say this. Even if he does love his OW, he still chooses to stay with his wife. Like you said above, one cannot force someone to stay married to them.

 

Some affairs do start out with each person agreeing to not let feelings get involved. Almost always, at least one side start to feel, they get the butterflies, etc.

 

I am done...

 

Good. I'm sure it will be hard, but it was the best choice for you at this time.

Edited January 18, 2014 by awkward

[awkward]

See, this is the question I had. Why do women inculcate this idea into their children's minds, that their father is 'the cheater'?

 

The father chose to cheat. If the BS doesn't know there is an affair does that make their husband faithful? Is he not a cheater? Of course he is. Children do not live in bubbles. Why is it the betrayed wife's fault that their children see their father as a cheater? It isn't of course. It is the cheaters fault. Why is is always the victims fault? The third party in the triangle that has been lied to, deceived, kept in the dark during the affair - it is always their fault. Does that make sense?

[Arieswoman]

From my own experience I can say that there was absolutely nothing to stop my exWH from leaving me for the OW at any time during the affair.

 

We had no children. (So no guilt/problem there)

 

I had a career earned more than he did ( so no worry about my not being able to cope financially or support myself )

 

However, she had a boyfriend, so neither would "jump ship" before the other.

 

He didn't leave because, I believe, he was scared to be alone.

 

Thank goodness I caught the pathetic POS out and kicked his backside into touch.

[Cressida]

See, we agree after all.

 

 

 

 

Because the cheating husband tells her he loves her. It was a mistake. Throws his OW under the bus. Begs, pleads, says he will change. His wife wants to believe him because they are a family. They have a shared history and life. She loves him.

 

Now if you are talking about betrayed wives that stay with serial cheating men, my answer would be she stays because she wants to, just like him.

 

 

 

Pretend for a minute that MM says this. How many OW do you think will have an affair with him? Of course, he will not say this. Even if he does love his OW, he still chooses to stay with his wife. Like you said above, one cannot force someone to stay married to them.

 

Some affairs do start out with each person agreeing to not let feelings get involved. Almost always, at least one side start to feel, they get the butterflies, etc.

 

 

 

Good. I'm sure it will be hard, but it was the best choice for you at this time.

 

Sorry, I meant to say 'one shouldn't force someone stay with them....*

 

I'm perfectly ok, it wasn't that hard actually. Maybe instead of writing this thread (I'm sure I didn't express myself 100% correctly and many BS will be offended and think I have something against the institution of marriage), I probably should've written about how I realized it wasn't good for me at least my experience (I don't claim knowing it all obviously)

 

Ok, so I'll say it here. I hope someone reads this and it helps at least a little bit....

I used to be very much in love with MM and believe I couldn't live without him. I kinda ended up following my own advice (uppercase), that's how I ended it. I got the sense he didn't feel the exact same things (of course, 'not living without someone' is being used in the metaphorical sense). I pondered a little bit upon this. Whatever the reason for that, and I honestly mean whatever, it was HIS feelings. To him, things were a little more complicated than this. I also understood that if I was to marry him (he proposed, we agreed, etc., he said he was going to divorce, etc) I wouldn't be happy because he didn't feel the same about me like I felt about him. I want what I want and I'm sure I'll find it.

Again- I THOUGHT i would be devastated if my fears that he didn't love me as much as I loved him were to be proven right. I wasn't. I think my brain decided to be a little selfish that day. What was I going to do at the end of the day, beat the love into him with a stick? Nope. I imagined a conversation with him in my head, 'look, I do love and adore and -insert term here- you, but if you don't reciprocate, it's ok. I may not understand why, I may not like it, but it is what it is.'. I never had this conversation as we had an argument and he started acting bossy, I told him I didn't want to continue like this. I'm not good for him, married or not. He didn't accept it and keeps calling me, I wish he understood. I don't think he can give me what I want. I really want him to be happy, and myself to be happy too. Absolutely no hard feelings.

 

Sometimes your brain just gets into the selfish mode and tells you 'hey, there's more to life than that. Chill out'. And that's what I'm doing. It feels like we've been separated forever. I can't harbor any negative feelings towards him as I will always see him as a nice man, I will always care about him and wish nothing but the best for him. I just want something else, he CAN'T give me that thing (for whatever reason!) and that's it. This is how my 'divorce' was

[awkward]

Sorry, I meant to say 'one shouldn't force someone stay with them....*

 

 

Ah, then we don't agree after all. That's ok though. If everyone agreed, we would be bored.

 

I'm perfectly ok, it wasn't that hard actually. Maybe instead of writing this thread (I'm sure I didn't express myself 100% correctly and many BS will be offended and think I have something against the institution of marriage), I probably should've written about how I realized it wasn't good for me at least my experience (I don't claim knowing it all obviously)

 

 

That is great. It seems that you are already in a good place. I'm not a BS. And if you did have something against marriage, just choose not to marry. Even if your married and change your mind, you divorce. Divorce is very common.

[Iguanna]

You bring up an amount of good opinions that can create massive conversation. I'll try to put my thoughts in a row, since there are many matters and hard to explain them the way I see them.

 

Since when marriage has become this horrible, angry beast that people's purpose in life is to tame? 'Save your marriage', 'fight for it', do this, do that....

 

This 'marriage' became such a huge thing, a mountain to climb, a river to cross, a tornado to fight, as if the married couple is the only married couple in the world and their 'survival' (of the marriage) is what the propagation of the species depends upon.

 

A marriage has behind it years of strangle from the couple's part, obstacles that have been skipped and sad moments, maybe break ups, tears, frustration, dealing with relatives, with friends etc. No relationship that leads to marriage is easy. The couple has to fight for it every day, and if one of them doesn't, you can tell that there is a gab between the couple. A relationship that leads to marriage is an investment. Nobody wants to invest years of his life for nothing. I know that nothings lasts forever and things and people change, but at the time that you fight for the relationship you put in some hard work to make it last the longest possible. That's why cheating and destroying the marriage is one valid reason that makes the cheater the bad person, cause this way they have thrown all this effort of their spouse in the garbage, and this for me is unfair. We hear many times "I've given you the best years of my life and you threw it away", it may be melodramatic but in various cases it's true. A young person lets say in their 30s put a lot of effort to make a relationship work and lead to marriage, they make a lot of sacrifices and compromises, they leave behind some dreams they might have had etc. So when this person gets 50 and gets cheated on, they see all these sacrifices were made in vain, and this is something that hurts. I hope I explained myself good enough.

 

My (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.

 

I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same. Yes, it's hard, yes, it's ****ty that someone cheated, it's not cool, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

They choose to stay for various reasons like the happiness if the kids, what will people say (divorce is a public admission of failure), what will the relatives say, how will I be a divorced person from now on, will I ever find a good parent for my kids and at the same time a good spouse for me? All these insecurities that are totally justified in my opinion. Plus one more thing is what I said above: the BS has put a great effort to make the relationship work and lead to a marriage, and they don't want to see all the sacrifices they've made having no result. And something really natural also is that people get used to having something or someone and they take them for granted. It's harsh for their ego to lose someone you used to take for granted, even though you may not have wanted that much. But I agree with you, if my husband one day would fall in love with another woman and he would choose to leave me I would in no circumstances press him or beg him to stay with me. If we have kids I would of course suggest that we find a suitable solution to make them suffer less, but nothing more than this. I would not want him to stay with me out of obligation or pity, and knowing that he has another woman in his heart. This would hurt me every day, I wouldn't take the pain.

 

Another 5-star thing I've seen around here is women who say 'he threw away our life together and his family, his children, for another woman'- I think it's wrong to assume that just because a man doesn't want to be with you anymore, you should adopt this wrong attitude and extrapolate it to his children. Why not letting the man be a father to his kids (obviously, I'm talking about men who were always fathers to their children and not baby daddies and other creeps) and accepting that the only dynamic that has changed is his relationship with YOU and not his children? Why be selfish and put your children in the same boat with yourself?

 

This is a pitiful ruse to make the man stay with them. The kids do need their father. It's ideal that the family lives together and they are happy with one another. It's common though that things and feelings change and kids need to learn that life can be hard sometimes. If mom and dad need to separate, they have to understand that it has nothing to do with them and they will always be their parents, even though dad lives in another house now.

[underwater2010]

What boggled me was a reply of another gentleman who said that the OW was to be seen as 'a cancer' to his marriage, a rot, something that had to be eliminated as soon as possible if the marriage was to work again. Boy oh boy!

 

 

Being that it was a generalized statement lets elaborate. An affair is a cancer to marriage. It takes time and attention away from a marriage that is most likely in need of it in that time more than any other. It slowly eats away at time and emotions and creates/increases negative feelings toward the spouse. Ever hear of the phrase misery enjoys company. An affair lets a person vent all the negative aspects of the marriage in order to justify the affair. Rarely do you hear an OW/OM come here telling us the great stuff their AP has to say about the marriage and when they do it is because they are furious about vacations, holiday, dates etc.

 

 

And another one who spoke about his affairs and admitted that he's basically back with his W out of fear of being thrown out on the street as they'd have to split all assets and he wouldn't be able to afford a house on his own.

 

 

That is a major fear for any person that cheats. And its not fair to the spouse or the AP. But it does go to show just how selfish they truly are.

 

Leaving aside the fact that I personally don't agree with such statements, my question(s) is /are....what the hell, people? Since when marriage has become this horrible, angry beast that people's purpose in life is to tame? 'Save your marriage', 'fight for it', do this, do that....

 

 

Normally a marriage has to be worked at. There are so many distractions in life that often spouses forget to turn toward each other and instead turn away. However, after Dday/affair(s), if both people truly want the marriage they do have to fight for it. They both have to do whatever it takes to make it work, before either ones decides to cut ties. Mind you that is only if BOTH want to make it work.

 

Q2, is it that 99% of 'working-it-out marriages' end up in this state (i.e. trying to fix it) because of financial reasons?

 

 

I would say more like 50/50. 50% for finances....50% for kids/love.

 

 

I beg to believe so....a while ago I posted about my story myself and most BS or even other OW I suspect said stuff like 'a man gets back with his wife because he loves her', 'he's never left in the first place' etc. I'm not talking about the serial-internet- porn-MM-user going after a few girls at the same time, screwing then dumping them after 3 months tops. I'm talking about 'relationships', albeit extra-marital.

 

My (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is?

 

 

I don't many BSs that have twisted the spouse's arm in order for them to stay. Majority of the time, the WS begs/wants the marriage to stay. If not....they would leave!!!! Many of us give them the option to leave....they don't take it.

 

 

I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.

 

 

And if someone wasn't there to "open their legs"...they couldn't have an affair either. It is a 50/50 blame, that is unless they did not know the WS was married.

 

This 'marriage' became such a huge thing, a mountain to climb, a river to cross, a tornado to fight, as if the married couple is the only married couple in the world and their 'survival' (of the marriage) is what the propagation of the species depends upon.

 

 

What is a huge deal to one person...is nothing to another. It is only important to those truly involved.

 

I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same. Yes, it's hard, yes, it's ****ty that someone cheated, it's not cool, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

 

That is stated by someone on the outside....that has nothing to lose. It is the end of the world to the BS....the end of their world as they know it. And trust me when I say...the WS is available to walk from the marriage at any time.

 

The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

 

 

My dignity is very much intact. Thank you very much. My marriage is still intact. Because he chose to stay and work on it together. There is nothing demeaning or degrading about trying to keep your marriage and family intact.

I think it's exactly this pressure that makes a human being want to stray, and if it's SERIOUS enough to make a man want to divorce/live his life with someone else, then why not just let him do it?

 

 

The WS is not locked up in a cage. They are not property or facing death for leaving. They are staying by choice...no matter the reason. The OW/OM need to face that fact.

 

All those BS who claim their husbands came crawling back, crying crocodile tears, kissing their feet and swearing upon six gods that they never loved anyone else but them, it was just a mistake and it 'didn't mean anything' (my favorite), does anyone believe they're just lying to themselves? If those men were millionaires would they REALLY be crawling back and want to stay and not go about their lives as they don't have any problem with finances?

 

 

I have answered it above. Most of us are not fooling ourselves. We know the status of relationship, if the affair has been discovered or confessed.

 

Another 5-star thing I've seen around here is women who say 'he threw away our life together and his family, his children, for another woman'- I think it's wrong to assume that just because a man doesn't want to be with you anymore, you should adopt this wrong attitude and extrapolate it to his children. Why not letting the man be a father to his kids (obviously, I'm talking about men who were always fathers to their children and not baby daddies and other creeps) and accepting that the only dynamic that has changed is his relationship with YOU and not his children?

 

 

Most of us have no issue with this. My FWH is a great father....I would never deny his relationship with his kids. But I would have issue with the OW/OM being any part of their life....until I got to know them better. I think the point you are missing is that the relationship as it currently stands....one household is the thing they throw away.

 

 

Why be selfish and put your children in the same boat with yourself?

 

 

Why be selfish and screw around with someone else, when you can file for divorce if you are that unhappy?

 

*scratching head*

 

 

see bolded.

[HermioneG]

As a former BW- I packed my spouse's things. And told him to go be with OW. I refused to fight for him.

 

I did not in any way, shape or form beg him, ask him, or even discuss the idea of him staying.

 

He crawled over broken glass to get back to me. And away from the OW.

 

People in affairs don't always tell the truth.

 

And at the end of the day, save for a few exceptions, and very few at that- the affairs aren't about the marriage, or the wife, or the affair partner. They are about unhealthy validation tactics by the wayward.

 

So the answer to the OP? The affair and the marriage aren't really in a competition. They aren't born of the same thing.

[Cocochai]

There are very good valid points on both arguments but at the end of the day... We all know "It's cheaper to keep her".

 

No yiu can't make someone stay in a M but, if they are BOTH willing to fight for it then the A never truly mattered and yes the MM lied to the OW/OM.

 

If the Cheater just begs, pleads and cries to stay... They should be willing to work on a better M and because you two took the vows. Not because your afraid to getting thrown out of the house and become known as the Cheater.

 

There are truly some folks who clearly should NOT have gotten Married.

[Popsicle]

Great thread and great questions.

 

A a former divorced female, I can tell you that when people get married (at least in the U.S.) they think it's for life. That is their intention when they marry, to stay married for life. This mindset, which is not a bad thing, is terribly hard to break. There are dreams, aspirations, plans, life goals set upon this mindset. No one wants to tear down their dreams and start over and especially not financially. If they have kids, friends and family who also have their minds set upon their marital status, they don't want to involve them in their destruction of the marriage either. This is why they feel like it's worth fighting for. So, you question is it worth fighting for? It is if that's what you care more about. Sometimes love (and sex) be damned. Who needs that anyway?

[sunburned]

Ok, deep cleansing breath, sunburned ...

 

 

I started to pick your post apart line by hyperbolic line but it became exhausting. Your post is one big rail against betrayed spouses. It is full of piss and vinegar and naiveté all at the same time. So I am singling out just a few of your many fallacies and wildly incorrect assumptions about M and cheating.

 

 

How can you say "I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. " I read your story from September. That's exactly what you were trying to do but as an OW. You should consider yourself "lucky." Sounds like you had one of the more honest-ish MM. He told you how he felt about her. Though he claimed (this is where the ish comes in) not to love her, his actions showed otherwise. YOU SAID SO YOURSELF!

 

 

You further ponder "why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't."

 

 

First of all, you mean "figuratively," not literally (more hyberbole).

Most married people "feel like having an affair" at some point! Who wouldn't? But feeling like having an affair and having one are different. It's a sign of poor boundaries. It doesn't necessarily mean the WS no longer loves the BS.

And, yes, it is a "horrifying thing" to leave a marriage for another. So of course many BS's would choose to fight (and some choose to walk and can't blame them either). But most of the time it's the MM begging his BS for a second chance, not just staying because the wife is fighting for it. And, from what I've read on LS, the "backlash" of the BS is absolutely not limited to the OW. The WS bears the brunt of it and deservedly so.

 

 

And then there's this gem: The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away! Just substitute "OW" for "women" and "MM" for "husbands." Hello?? Surely you can't miss the irony of your statement.

 

 

Yes, I know this didn't have "anything to do" with your own A. But you seem to think that the BSs are just an inconvenient obstacle to the OW's happiness.

 

 

And, no, I'm not a bitter BS. I'm a former and never again WS/MOW.

[Popsicle]

I wish the editing time was longer. I meant to begin that previous post with "As a divorced female". I wonder the same things you wonder too, even with the answer I gave.

 

I have also been a single OW, so I have that perspective as well. I have never been a MOW.