What is the whole problem with infidelity v. marriage?

[krazikat]

I've been going back and forth on this forum and I would like to ask a few questions to anybody who would like to answer...at the end of the day we are all here for a reason, we need to find answers...or just other people's opinions.

 

I am an OW and I'm not very happy about it. My biggest puzzle is not the situation at hand but married people's attitudes. Let me explain myself.

 

A few weeks ago I read a thread started by a gentleman who spoke about his affair and his lack of remorse, as well as of his attempts to make his marriage work despite still being in love with the OW. Lots of replies, lots of questions, etc. What boggled me was a reply of another gentleman who said that the OW was to be seen as 'a cancer' to his marriage, a rot, something that had to be eliminated as soon as possible if the marriage was to work again. Boy oh boy! And another one who spoke about his affairs and admitted that he's basically back with his W out of fear of being thrown out on the street as they'd have to split all assets and he wouldn't be able to afford a house on his own.

 

Leaving aside the fact that I personally don't agree with such statements, my question(s) is /are....what the hell, people? Since when marriage has become this horrible, angry beast that people's purpose in life is to tame? 'Save your marriage', 'fight for it', do this, do that....

 

Q2, is it that 99% of 'working-it-out marriages' end up in this state (i.e. trying to fix it) because of financial reasons? I beg to believe so....a while ago I posted about my story myself and most BS or even other OW I suspect said stuff like 'a man gets back with his wife because he loves her', 'he's never left in the first place' etc. I'm not talking about the serial-internet- porn-MM-user going after a few girls at the same time, screwing then dumping them after 3 months tops. I'm talking about 'relationships', albeit extra-marital.

 

My (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.

 

This 'marriage' became such a huge thing, a mountain to climb, a river to cross, a tornado to fight, as if the married couple is the only married couple in the world and their 'survival' (of the marriage) is what the propagation of the species depends upon.

 

I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same. Yes, it's hard, yes, it's ****ty that someone cheated, it's not cool, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

 

I think it's exactly this pressure that makes a human being want to stray, and if it's SERIOUS enough to make a man want to divorce/live his life with someone else, then why not just let him do it?

 

All those BS who claim their husbands came crawling back, crying crocodile tears, kissing their feet and swearing upon six gods that they never loved anyone else but them, it was just a mistake and it 'didn't mean anything' (my favorite), does anyone believe they're just lying to themselves? If those men were millionaires would they REALLY be crawling back and want to stay and not go about their lives as they don't have any problem with finances?

 

Another 5-star thing I've seen around here is women who say 'he threw away our life together and his family, his children, for another woman'- I think it's wrong to assume that just because a man doesn't want to be with you anymore, you should adopt this wrong attitude and extrapolate it to his children. Why not letting the man be a father to his kids (obviously, I'm talking about men who were always fathers to their children and not baby daddies and other creeps) and accepting that the only dynamic that has changed is his relationship with YOU and not his children? Why be selfish and put your children in the same boat with yourself?

 

*scratching head*

 

*scratching head* face to palm

 

Girl, your post is filled with the typically ow/m generalization of behaviors that are not actually the norm but are normal assumptions/comments/idiocracies made by APs. It is so unfortunate the MM (and mw) are so very successful at putting the BS and AP against each other with the mind*****ery that really only benefits the cheating spouse.

 

So here we are again, yet another thread where an AP makes egregious claims of BS making it seem as though all BS force their husbands to stay...

 

However, I agree that this is an interesting topic for discussion, and do believe that we can learn from each other...so with that said, I will participate in the discussion, but op please read thru your own posts...perhaps you will realize that you are simply not in the position to judge a BS who stays.

[EverySunset]

When my exWH carried on affair after affair (as I found out muuuuuch later) he told them anything they wanted to hear.

 

She's cold. Except I wasn't... I was loving, very loving to him, his kids, our daughter, and his extended family. We were the envy of everyone in public, PDA was nothing to us.

 

She's not supportive. Oh hell, this one made me laugh. I ran everything for him. The back end of the business, the house, the family, the life.

 

She'd be after my money. Phck half... When I bolted I only took what money and furniture I needed. No house. I didn't even bother with money I just wanted my life back.

 

She'd ruin me. He did that by himself. I just sit back and watch him run everything ino the ground. His life, anyway. Mine is better for only having myself in it.

 

I found out girls begged him to leave. Tried to trick him with pregnancies. But in the end, when I found everything out, I didn't care that he always wanted to stay. Who could love a man who built your home on a foundation of lies?

 

Not me, anyways. The OWs can have him.

[krazikat]

I've been going back and forth on this forum and I would like to ask a few questions to anybody who would like to answer...at the end of the day we are all here for a reason, we need to find answers...or just other people's opinions.

 

I am an OW and I'm not very happy about it. My biggest puzzle is not the situation at hand but married people's attitudes. Let me explain myself.

 

A few weeks ago I read a thread started by a gentleman who spoke about his affair and his lack of remorse, as well as of his attempts to make his marriage work despite still being in love with the OW. Lots of replies, lots of questions, etc. What boggled me was a reply of another gentleman who said that the OW was to be seen as 'a cancer' to his marriage, a rot, something that had to be eliminated as soon as possible if the marriage was to work again. Boy oh boy! And another one who spoke about his affairs and admitted that he's basically back with his W out of fear of being thrown out on the street as they'd have to split all assets and he wouldn't be able to afford a house on his own.

 

Leaving aside the fact that I personally don't agree with such statements, my question(s) is /are....what the hell, people? Since when marriage has become this horrible, angry beast that people's purpose in life is to tame? 'Save your marriage', 'fight for it', do this, do that....

 

Q2, is it that 99% of 'working-it-out marriages' end up in this state (i.e. trying to fix it) because of financial reasons? I beg to believe so....a while ago I posted about my story myself and most BS or even other OW I suspect said stuff like 'a man gets back with his wife because he loves her', 'he's never left in the first place' etc. I'm not talking about the serial-internet- porn-MM-user going after a few girls at the same time, screwing then dumping them after 3 months tops. I'm talking about 'relationships', albeit extra-marital.

 

My (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.

 

This 'marriage' became such a huge thing, a mountain to climb, a river to cross, a tornado to fight, as if the married couple is the only married couple in the world and their 'survival' (of the marriage) is what the propagation of the species depends upon.

 

I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same. Yes, it's hard, yes, it's ****ty that someone cheated, it's not cool, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

 

I think it's exactly this pressure that makes a human being want to stray, and if it's SERIOUS enough to make a man want to divorce/live his life with someone else, then why not just let him do it?

 

All those BS who claim their husbands came crawling back, crying crocodile tears, kissing their feet and swearing upon six gods that they never loved anyone else but them, it was just a mistake and it 'didn't mean anything' (my favorite), does anyone believe they're just lying to themselves? If those men were millionaires would they REALLY be crawling back and want to stay and not go about their lives as they don't have any problem with finances?

 

Another 5-star thing I've seen around here is women who say 'he threw away our life together and his family, his children, for another woman'- I think it's wrong to assume that just because a man doesn't want to be with you anymore, you should adopt this wrong attitude and extrapolate it to his children. Why not letting the man be a father to his kids (obviously, I'm talking about men who were always fathers to their children and not baby daddies and other creeps) and accepting that the only dynamic that has changed is his relationship with YOU and not his children? Why be selfish and put your children in the same boat with yourself?

 

*scratching head*

 

I think that once you are married, have children, spend years of your life together you will understand why people, both BS and mm, may being invested in holding onto the marriage.

 

" I am an OW and I'm not very happy about it. My biggest puzzle is not the situation at hand but married people's attitudes. Let me explain myself.A few weeks ago I read a thread started by a gentleman who spoke about his affair and his lack of remorse, as well as of his attempts to make his marriage work despite still being in love with the OW. Lots of replies, lots of questions, etc. What boggled me was a reply of another gentleman who said that the OW was to be seen as 'a cancer' to his marriage, a rot, something that had to be eliminated as soon as possible if the marriage was to work again. Boy oh boy! And another one who spoke about his affairs and admitted that he's basically back with his W out of fear of being thrown out on the street as they'd have to split all assets and he wouldn't be able to afford a house on his own."

 

I wanted to comment on the two elements of your post quoted above.

 

Regarding the unrepentant MM who was sticking with his marriage despite his love for ow...well, that is not fair to his wife or ow. If his wife is aware and is still okay with attempting to r then okay...but if he is lying to his wife then that is wrong. What else can you say about it? I will try to locate that post to become more familiar as I do not recall it at this time...

 

Regarding the cancer statement...that is very true. If the WS is determined to stay in and repair the marriage, then the AP must be completely removed. The AP is in fact a cancer to the marriage.

[GG3]

When my exWH carried on affair after affair (as I found out muuuuuch later) he told them anything they wanted to hear.

 

She's cold. Except I wasn't... I was loving, very loving to him, his kids, our daughter, and his extended family. We were the envy of everyone in public, PDA was nothing to us.

 

She's not supportive. Oh hell, this one made me laugh. I ran everything for him. The back end of the business, the house, the family, the life.

 

She'd be after my money. Phck half... When I bolted I only took what money and furniture I needed. No house. I didn't even bother with money I just wanted my life back.

 

She'd ruin me. He did that by himself. I just sit back and watch him run everything ino the ground. His life, anyway. Mine is better for only having myself in it.

 

I found out girls begged him to leave. Tried to trick him with pregnancies. But in the end, when I found everything out, I didn't care that he always wanted to stay. Who could love a man who built your home on a foundation of lies?

 

Not me, anyways. The OWs can have him.

 

 

I have found this to be true most of the time. The cheater complains about their partner and casts blame. Always telling their AP what they want to hear.

 

I have an ex who had a very intense EA with a girl from work. He was always complaining about me. I remember one Sunday we had an amazing day and by 6pm in the afternoon we had spent a few hours in bed screwing each others brains out. She had texted him asking how our weekend was and he told her what we did. She said "glad things are better." He said "I didn't say things were better." She replied, "Well it can't be that bad if you were in bed before 6." Lol. I had confronted her and told her that he was lying to her sometimes and to not always believe everything he said.

Edited January 19, 2014 by GG3

[krazikat]

Yes affair relationships that last years, and are still affairs. MM still lying to his BS and to his OW. He is probably telling his wife he loves her. He may be lying but if she loves him, I can see where she would want to try. Why is the OW still there years later? He is probably telling her he loves her. He may be lying.

 

He lies.

 

And that's just it. The affair is just an affair, no matter how long it lasts. An affair cannot compare to a marriage. This is hard for some to understand, which I get, because mm is lying and in some cases promising the moon and stars....and then going home to his wife. Lying to wife, often still fully engaged with his wife.

 

With ow they get sex, adoration, attention...and they enjoy it. They may truly have love for the ow.

 

With wife they get comfort, stability, family, history, love, sex.

Edited January 19, 2014 by krazikat

[krazikat]

"M y (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.*"

 

Your view of this is typical for an ow who has been fed shizzz by her mm, other ow, etc. It is a complete fallacy and allows the AP to place blame on the victim (BS) instead of owning their choice to engage in an affair with a mm/w. Its right up there with saying the BS must know about the affair but is choosing to ignore.

 

Just as a man can choose to cheat, he can also choose to leave. The BS is not LITERALLY () twisting his arm to get him to stay. In many of the situations I know, BS told WS to leave and be with the AP. This view of BS being some desperate begging fool must make AP feel better since they seem to cling to this so often.

 

The fact is, if mm wanted to leave he would. Period. It is not the victims fault that WS stays. Period. The BS is the.victim! Why are others so intent on blaming the victim?

[krazikat]

See, this is the question I had. Why do women inculcate this idea into their children's minds, that their father is 'the cheater'? He is more than that, he is their father. No matter what happens in the marital relationship he has with their mother, the paternal relationship he has with them shouldn't be affected by this. As long as he is exactly the same person he always was (I'd like to consider a normal relationship here, no abuse, deprivation, etc), why would they see him differently? What it is between him and his wife concerns them only, I don't think children get to be involved in all aspects of their parents' marital lives so this one doesn't concern them at the end of the day, it¨'s their parent's choice. As long as in case of a divorce, for example, fathers or WS in general remain the same with their children (attachment, time together, support, etc) I don't see why the children should stigmatize their parents for something it doesn't pertain to them.

 

Oh my, yet another ignorant statement....OP where are you getting all of this information! Where are your sources?

 

Children are smarter then people give them credit for. They pick up on things. Actually, my child was the one who tipped me off about a possible affair. My child was placed in a position that they never should have been placed in after overhearing a conversation between WS and AP.

 

Why do so many AP claim the BS poisons the kids against the WS? If the WS had not made the choice to engage in the affair, then there would be nothing to hide from the kids. This is yet another topic that others love to blame the victim for. Really, own your ****! Ow/m often complain about the BS placing blame on them for the affair...hey pot, meet kettle!!!

[Popsicle]

Its right up there with saying the BS must know about the affair but is choosing to ignore.

 

Oh but this does exist. I know several BS's who do know and choose to ignore. My own sister and best friend, just to name two.

[Popsicle]

If I found out my husband cheated on me, I would kick him to the curb (and yes, I have kids AND have been financially dependent on a man before). I find it hard to respect women who stay after being cheated on, even though I logically understand their reasons. But logic and loyalty doesn't make up for some things. I don't even respect Hilary Clinton. Listening to her about her relationship, she seems delusional.

[krazikat]

Oh but this does exist. I know several BS's who do know and choose to ignore. My own sister and best friend, just to name two.

 

Your are right, it absolutely does exist...but that doesn't make it the norm. There are many dofferent things that may happen once in a while but are not the norm...and I see this used often in the context of justifying an affair...and that is a fallacy to assume the BS must know so it is okay to continue.

[krazikat]

If I found out my husband cheated on me, I would kick him to the curb (and yes, I have kids AND have been financially dependent on a man before). I find it hard to respect women who stay after being cheated on, even though I logically understand their reasons. But logic and loyalty doesn't make up for some things. I don't even respect Hilary Clinton. Listening to her about her relationship, she seems delusional.

 

Girl I said the same thing. My reaction on dday was to move forward with divorce....attorneys, sending him on his way. I was so angry I KNEW I HAD to divorce his ass.

 

Yet, here I am, successfully recovered.

 

But this is his only opportunity. I am at peace with my decision. If he cheats again, I can leave knowing that I did everything I could do to respect the marriage.

 

This makes me think of another statement I often see where AP allege the wife has the WS on lockdown. I can't speak for others of course, but I refuse to live that way. If I have to babysit my husband, then he shouldn't be my husband.

[Popsicle]

Your are right, it absolutely does exist...but that doesn't make it the norm. There are many dofferent things that may happen once in a while but are not the norm...and I see this used often in the context of justifying an affair...and that is a fallacy to assume the BS must know so it is okay to continue.

 

I see it happening often. I guess we see different things. I wouldn't use it as a justification for an affair though. I don't know about other women. I see it as the man is taking advantage of two stupid women. (and why wouldn't he if he's allowed to?)

 

Another thing I see happening often is BS's staying. This is especially true when men discover that their wife/girlfriend has cheated. They hardly EVER leave after finding out, especially if the wife doesn't want him to.

[Popsicle]

This makes me think of another statement I often see where AP allege the wife has the WS on lockdown.

 

No, that is never true and it's a dumb thing for an AP/OW/OM to believe.

[Popsicle]

Girl I said the same thing. My reaction on dday was to move forward with divorce....attorneys, sending him on his way. I was so angry I KNEW I HAD to divorce his ass.

 

Yet, here I am, successfully recovered.

 

But this is his only opportunity. I am at peace with my decision. If he cheats again, I can leave knowing that I did everything I could do to respect the marriage.

 

I feel for you. I see so much long-lasting hurt and pain that come from affairs. this is why I always say not to expose them, when that question comes up. Better to just end it and be a better person...the least amount of people who have to deal with the pain, the better.

 

I could easily tell my exMM's wife about our affair, but why do that? She doesn't know. Telling would destroy her and their kids, and do a lot of damage to his life too. He is a man who is having problems in his marriage. He should fix his problems and I don't need to be a part of that in any way. If he can't fix them and he comes back to me, then that's another matter.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Popsicle

[krazikat]

I see it happening often. I guess we see different things. I wouldn't use it as a justification for an affair though. I don't know about other women. I see it as the man is taking advantage of two stupid women. (and why wouldn't he if he's allowed to?)

 

Another thing I see happening often is BS's staying. This is especially true when men discover that their wife/girlfriend has cheated. They hardly EVER leave after finding out, especially if the wife doesn't want him to.

 

I agree. The WS is definitely guilty as stated.

 

Also, there are many BS who stay in the m after dday. I am one of them...AND I NEVER thought I would or could do that. I always wondered how anyone could stay with someone who cheated on them.

 

Also, just a thought...it seems many BS stay initially, but end up divorcing down the road. So this makes me think that though many may stay, in the long run they may determine they can't deal with it?

[Popsicle]

I agree. The WS is definitely guilty as stated.

 

Also, there are many BS who stay in the m after dday. I am one of them...AND I NEVER thought I would or could do that. I always wondered how anyone could stay with someone who cheated on them.

 

Also, just a thought...it seems many BS stay initially, but end up divorcing down the road. So this makes me think that though many may stay, in the long run they may determine they can't deal with it?

 

That could be, but that would depend on if you have other problems aside from infidelity in your relationship. A WS could be a one-timer, but the other problems just become overwhelming over time and that causes the marriage to end. I think there are two types of WS's - the one-timers (which I believe the majority are), and serial cheaters. It just takes time to find out which type the WS is. I don't have what it takes to wait around and find out and that's why I would leave.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Popsicle

[krazikat]

That could be, but that would depend on if you have other problems aside from infidelity in your relationship. A WS could be a one-timer, but the other problems just become overwhelming over time and that causes the marriage to end. I think there are two types of WS's - the one-timers (which I believe the majority are), and serial cheaters. It just takes time to find out which type the WS is. I don't have what it takes to wait around and find out and that's why I would leave.

 

Yes, and I think that is one of the major issues...feeling like you can never fully trust again and always having a part.blocked off "just in case" so if you do get cheated on again, you arent blind sided. I do not think a marriage will ever be the same as it was prior to the affair.

[sweet_pea]

Wait, so you find it hard to respect a woman who chooses to stay with someone who cheated on her? Do you also find it hard to respect women who choose to have affairs with married/men in relationships?

[MissBee]

My (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.

 

This 'marriage' became such a huge thing, a mountain to climb, a river to cross, a tornado to fight, as if the married couple is the only married couple in the world and their 'survival' (of the marriage) is what the propagation of the species depends upon.

 

I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same. Yes, it's hard, yes, it's ****ty that someone cheated, it's not cool, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

 

I think it's exactly this pressure that makes a human being want to stray, and if it's SERIOUS enough to make a man want to divorce/live his life with someone else, then why not just let him do it?

 

All those BS who claim their husbands came crawling back, crying crocodile tears, kissing their feet and swearing upon six gods that they never loved anyone else but them, it was just a mistake and it 'didn't mean anything' (my favorite), does anyone believe they're just lying to themselves? If those men were millionaires would they REALLY be crawling back and want to stay and not go about their lives as they don't have any problem with finances?

 

Another 5-star thing I've seen around here is women who say 'he threw away our life together and his family, his children, for another woman'- I think it's wrong to assume that just because a man doesn't want to be with you anymore, you should adopt this wrong attitude and extrapolate it to his children. Why not letting the man be a father to his kids (obviously, I'm talking about men who were always fathers to their children and not baby daddies and other creeps) and accepting that the only dynamic that has changed is his relationship with YOU and not his children? Why be selfish and put your children in the same boat with yourself?

 

*scratching head*

 

I'm scratching my head too as your post seems to fault women cheated on and in no way addresses the men and I am also uncertain of where exactly you're getting some of these premises and it is very very one-sided.

 

Why should the wife walk away when the MM is the one who is in love with someone else? This makes no sense. Why doesn't he walk away? Oh right...there are 100 million reasons why they can't/don't and we should all nod our heads and believe they're legit but when the BS stays it is for some manipulative or naive reason and not at all anything legit, just like MM is staying for his kids etc the BS could never be staying for the kids either, she's just staying to ruin the OW's life and the MM because she is too desperate to know better .

 

No one chains MM down and forces them to stay in their marriage and it is plain delusional to believe this...then again it seems based on home some OW talk about the MM, that they take up with MM who are extremely weak-willed whose wives rule them and have them under their thumbs supposedly (even though they still find time for an affair under their feudal Lord ). If a wife is pathetic or manipulative to stay with a MM, then it could be argued that an OW is twice as stupid, as she is with some guy who can't even make his own decisions in life and is in a half relationship with a man tethered to his feudal Lord...or I forgot, ALL MM's decisions are selfless, so their choice to stay is only because they want to do what's best.

 

Divorce may not be easy but it's doable and people do it ALL the time, so the idea that cheating MM find divorce so tedious and difficult and so much harder than the rest of the world divorcing is nuts! Part of being a grown up and what parents hopefully should be teaching their children is that sometimes you have to make hard decisions that aren't fun now but later on pay off. Divorce happens, it sucks but people bounce back so if your married life is so horrible or you feel your new R is worth more than your current life you'll take the risk...if a MM doesn't take the risk, he's a coward or simply doesn't feel the new life is worth it. How is that the wife's fault? No matter how someone cries and begs and twists your arm, it may cause roadblocks but it won't completely stop anyone hellbent on leaving.

 

Being the child of a cheater I can tell you it doesn't just change the relationship between the married couple but it affects the entire family dynamic and your own relationship with your parent....this isn't some new fangled thing, anything parents do has the power to affect their children.

 

I don't know where you're getting the idea about "majority" of women degrade and demeans themselves to make a man stay but it goes both ways....at least a BS is married to this man, has his children, pays a mortgage with him, have family together, a business sometimes and other real things that make it understandable why they feel distraught about an A and don't immediately kick the MM to the curb (although I think you're overblowing the fact that majority don't, most are sooo angry that they do, even if they reconcile that is usually the first reaction from what I have heard and in my own experience with my parents' relationship, my mom never once begged my dad to do anything, when found out HE is the one who throws the OW under the bus and starts the waterworks ). Many OW degrade and demean themselves by willingly agreeing to be a secret, to be downplayed, some gleefully accept being thrown under the bus "so long as he comes back", being lied about, their "man" goes home to someone else and often sleeps with someone else and they KNOW this, at least a BS is often completely in the dark that this is happening while OW knows this is happening or has every reason to suspect since she knows her bf is married to someone else, and the list goes on where they accept any number of inane things that would be completely insane in a single R and which is still insane in an A. And they have no children with this man, often haven't had years with him, aren't close to his family and leaving him will only hurt their heart but not the structure of their lives...and many stay and stay and that staying causes them to lose themselves. I was an OW too btw.

 

So honestly, size up the situations more fairly please. In any case, a BS and OW are both in a relationship with a cheater. No one is winning, esp if said cheater doesn't make the choice to live authentically. Why on earth some OW get so focused on the BS is beyond me as the cheating MM holds most of the cards and however you slice it and dice it, he is where he wants to be and if he REALLY doesn't want to be there any more he will make moves. If he doesn't it is not his wife's fault neither the OW's fault.

Edited January 19, 2014 by MissBee

[krazikat]

I'm scratching my head too as your post seems to fault women cheated on and in no way addresses the men and I am also uncertain of where exactly you're getting some of these premises and it is very very one-sided.

 

Why should the wife walk away when the MM is the one who is in love with someone else? This makes no sense. Why doesn't he walk away? Oh right...there are 100 million reasons why they can't/don't and we should all nod our heads and believe they're legit but when the BS stays it is for some manipulative or naive reason and not at all anything legit, just like MM is staying for his kids etc the BS could never be staying for the kids either, she's just staying to ruin the OW's life and the MM because she is too desperate to know better .

 

No one chains MM down and forces them to stay in their marriage and it is plain delusional to believe this...then again it seems based on home some OW talk about the MM, that they take up with MM who are extremely weak-willed whose wives rule them and have them under their thumbs supposedly (even though they still find time for an affair under their feudal Lord ). If a wife is pathetic or manipulative to stay with a MM, then it could be argued that an OW is twice as stupid, as she is with some guy who can't even make his own decisions in life and is in a half relationship with a man tethered to his feudal Lord...or I forgot, ALL MM's decisions are selfless, so their choice to stay is only because they want to do what's best.

 

Being the child of a cheater I can tell you it doesn't just change the relationship between the married couple but it affects the entire family dynamic and your own relationship with your parent....this isn't some new fangled thing, anything parents do has the power to affect their children.

 

I don't know where you're getting the idea about "majority" of women degrade and demeans themselves to make a man stay but it goes both ways....at least a BS is married to this man, has his children, pays a mortgage with him, have family together, a business sometimes and other real things that make it understandable why they feel distraught about an A and don't immediately kick the MM to the curb (although I think you're overblowing the fact that majority don't, most are sooo angry that they do, even if they reconcile that is usually the first reaction from what I have heard and in my own experience with my parents' relationship, my mom never once begged my dad to do anything, when found out HE is the one who throws the OW under the bus and starts the waterworks ). Many OW degrade and demean themselves by willingly agreeing to be a secret, to be downplayed, some gleefully accept being thrown under the bus "so long as he comes back", being lied about, their "man" goes home to someone else and often sleeps with someone else and they KNOW this, at least a BS is often completely in the dark that this is happening while OW knows this is happening or has every reason to suspect since she knows her bf is married to someone else, and the list goes on where they accept any number of inane things that would be completely insane in a single R and which is still insane in an A. And they have no children with this man, often haven't had years with him, aren't close to his family and leaving him will only hurt their heart but not the structure of their lives...and many stay and stay and that staying causes them to lose themselves. I was an OW too btw.

 

So honestly, size up the situations more fairly please. In any case, a BS and OW are both in a relationship with a cheater. No one is winning, esp if said cheater doesn't make the choice to live authentically. Why on earth some OW get so focused on the BS is beyond me as the cheating MM holds most of the cards and however you slice it and dice it, he is where he wants to be and if he REALLY doesn't want to be there any more he will make moves. If he doesn't it is not his wife's fault neither the OW's fault.

 

Very well put, Miss Bee. I co-sign your entire post.

 

This part I wanted to comment on:

" Why should the wife walk away when the MM is the one who is in love with someone else? This makes no sense.**Why doesn't he walk away? Oh right...there are 100 million reasons why they can't/don't and we should all nod our heads and believe they're legit but when the BS stays it is for some manipulative or naive reason and not at all anything legit, just like MM is staying for his kids etc the BS could never be staying for the kids either, she's just staying to ruin the OW's life and the MM because she is too desperate to know better*.*"

 

This is so spot on I just wanted everyone to read it again! Lately there have been nurmerous mentions of "bitter bs" on the boards...ladies come on!!! You have to wake up and see the other side of your mm, that he is a cheater and a liar and in the majority of cases will never leave his wife, but to blame the bs is just ignorant and failing to face the reality of your choices.

[SolG]

Before I was an OW (which I still am), I was married. In fact, I technically still am married, but have been separated for a long time. (No intention of getting divorced unless xH wants/needs to.)

 

I fully understand the pull of children when it comes to staying in a marriage. My xH and I didn't separate until our daughter left home. I was very unhappy with the relationship, but CHOSE to stay because I felt it was the right thing to do with a child. My xH agreed; and we did try. But after she left there was nothing to hold us together anymore and we separated pretty amicably. We are still very fond of each other, communicate most days and will always be family through the bond of our daughter. We never ever 'played' family; we were family. And still are. Just as all WS and BS with children are.

 

I therefore completely understand my MM's predilection (and the desire of other WSs') to feel that it is optimal to continue to provide a nuclear family under one roof for his children - despite perhaps not being satisfied with his primary relationship. This is a CHOICE, not the result of COERCION by a BS. I would be more surprised if a WS parent felt any other way :-/

 

As for OW/OM as cancer... In my opinion it is not he or she that is a 'cancer', but rather an active affair that continues to damage a marriage and has a negative impact on any attempt to reconcile. The research on this fact is pretty compelling.

[Eggplant]

A relationship that leads to marriage is an investment. Nobody wants to invest years of his life for nothing. I know that nothings lasts forever and things and people change, but at the time that you fight for the relationship you put in some hard work to make it last the longest possible. That's why cheating and destroying the marriage is one valid reason that makes the cheater the bad person, cause this way they have thrown all this effort of their spouse in the garbage, and this for me is unfair. We hear many times "I've given you the best years of my life and you threw it away", it may be melodramatic but in various cases it's true. A young person lets say in their 30s put a lot of effort to make a relationship work and lead to marriage, they make a lot of sacrifices and compromises, they leave behind some dreams they might have had etc. So when this person gets 50 and gets cheated on, they see all these sacrifices were made in vain, and this is something that hurts. I hope I explained myself good enough.

 

THIS ^^^^^^^

 

Unfair fact of life: old women with children mostly have a miserable time getting remarried. Want to know what is even more destructive to your health than an emotionally abusive relationship? Social isolation. I can't help but notice on this board that a lot of OW were in fact BW who left their WH. It's telling. And there is so much nasty stigma against old single women. "Old maid" is no longer PC, but it has been replaced by the "crazy cat lazy." Not that that should influence anybody, but it's like salt in the wounds.

 

I agree with the OP -- if my H ever wants to leave, I'm going to hold onto my dignity and not pressure him. But I can't judge another for wanting to live with a man she loves. I get irritated when people who are basking in the daylight of their youth, or who are secure in their loving marriages and who have a large support network, are so judgmental about BW who stay, after having invested their whole lives and hard work and soul into cultivating a relationship. I'd like to see some of those judgmental people go live alone for the rest of their lives.

[waterwoman]

I don't understand why your post is all about the BS. You and your lover, whilst he was married to someone else, chose to embark on an affAir. He chose not o leave his wife. The only person who had no choice in all of it was her, but you seem to imply she's at fault for it all. And then extrapolate from that absurdIty to critisise all BSs who don't up and leave their marriages just to convenience the AP.

[cocorico]

 

 

Much of married life is not romantic, sexy, intimate, passionate, fun etc etc. a lot of it is not even enjoyable or even pleasant for that matter. if the majority of your married life is even tolerable you are doing pretty good.

 

 

Wow! Speak for yourself! I am so glad my M is nothing like this....

 

Yes, we work. Yes, we have chores. But that does not make it less enjoyable or pleasant - working together is fun. Doing chores together can be intimate, sexy, passionate, if you want it to be. If my M was "tolerable" the majority of the time I would not be in it. Life is too short to choose mediocrity.

[Cressida]

I don't understand why your post is all about the BS. You and your lover, whilst he was married to someone else, chose to embark on an affAir. He chose not o leave his wife. The only person who had no choice in all of it was her, but you seem to imply she's at fault for it all. And then extrapolate from that absurdIty to critisise all BSs who don't up and leave their marriages just to convenience the AP.

 

1. My married lover actually chose to divorce his wife and marry me but we broke up a few days ago. I'm perfectly at peace with everything. The A was dishonest towards the theoretical definition of 'cheating' as she had stopped being a wife to him many years ago and they were living very differently than a real marriage would imply. My post in September was written at a time when I was very confused and he was also in a weird mood. Not that I don't stand by everything I've written.

 

2. My whole post wasn't written to spew venom at married women whose husbands cheat and perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. Everyone here just spoke of their personal experiences and claimed I was the one writing generalizations when in fact...they were indeed seeing it one-sided and I wrote about a pattern, a habit, something that transcends cultures, generations (modern ones I mean), identities and specifics of marriages/relationships.

 

3. I was not always an OW, I also had a long-term relationship and I know very well what bonding, attachment, memories, common friends, finances etc can mean to a person /woman in this case. I didn't say that women should forget about everything as it's human nature to feel hurt and upset when something like this (i.e. affair, leading to arguments and separation) happens. But it's more dignified and fair, and civilized for both parties to realistically assess and understand what their relationship is like and decide on a grounded basis what the next step is, instead of bringing on the dramatics. It is what it is. IF there is nothing to be done.

 

4. 'Wasting of the best years of one's life'- those years pass either way, one, Two, why consider it wasting just because the outcome doesn't favor YOU and YOUR dreams of 'till death do us part'. Yes, it's hard emotionally speaking but IF the spouse wants out (or his actions prove it), why emotionally blackmail him into staying with such accusations? So basically you're pulling some card to make him stay with you, because you gave the best years of your life. He also did.

 

5. It's harder for middle-aged women with children to remarry-. this isn't my fault, folks. This is something that has been around since the beginning of time, it's biology and it stands encrypted in our genetic codes. A man stays fertile pretty much until the last day of his life as opposed to a woman who is no longer 'viable' after the age of 50. I am a woman too, I will also get old, this is something I am very aware of. Unfortunately it's a reality we can't control, and I'd rather not stay with a man who stays with me out of pity or blackmail. Brr. Is this a reason why a husband shouldn't divorce, because 'f*ck you, a*hole, I spent my youth and good years on you and now you're turning your back on me? No way, you're staying!'. Yes he is staying, then having an affair...after affair...affair etc. Not something I'd want.

 

6. Children and families- guys. I didn't say to split up and hurt your children. I said that I think finding an appropriate and civilized solution is the key answer. I've read, seen and personally interacted with women who set the kids against the father- first hand experience, happened in my family. Totally horrible when the child is very young. Being good and supportive parents is one thing, ganging up on the WS is a different one. Yes he cheated, but on YOU, not on his kids. Let them decide what take they should have on this when they're old enough to judge, not when they're 5.