What is the whole problem with infidelity v. marriage?

[Popsicle]

5. It's harder for middle-aged women with children to remarry-. this isn't my fault, folks. This is something that has been around since the beginning of time, it's biology and it stands encrypted in our genetic codes. A man stays fertile pretty much until the last day of his life as opposed to a woman who is no longer 'viable' after the age of 50. I am a woman too, I will also get old, this is something I am very aware of. Unfortunately it's a reality we can't control, and I'd rather not stay with a man who stays with me out of pity or blackmail. Brr. Is this a reason why a husband shouldn't divorce, because 'f*ck you, a*hole, I spent my youth and good years on you and now you're turning your back on me? No way, you're staying!'. Yes he is staying, then having an affair...after affair...affair etc. Not something I'd want.

 

 

Some women do this for sure, and these are the women you're talking about, but I think those relationships still eventually end, and most of the time, he stays because there are kids involved and that gets piled on top of things, but, for some women, it's the husband who's the one who asks to work it out and begs for another chance. I think when he's the one begging for another chance from the wife, he usually ends things with the OW and doesn't try to cake eat.

Just pointing out the distinction between the two.

 

But, for the ones you're describing, it conjures up images in my mind of that old song "And I am telling you" by Jennifer Holiday...

[Cressida]

it's the husband who's the one who asks to work it out and begs for another chance. I think when he's the one begging for another chance from the wife, he usually ends things with the OW and doesn't try to cake eat..

 

Most of the times it's exactly for the reasons you mentioned yourself that he comes begging for another chance from the wife. Social pressure, family issues, property, finances, it's too hard to give up a cushy life particularly if the financial situation isn't extremely satisfactory. It's also human nature at the end of the day. Kicking the OW to the curb, perhaps they do it temporarily. Some of them reignite the affair, others start all over again with other OW. These are rare cases from what I've seen. The general rule being that they get back crawling if there's something in it for them while never actually putting an end to the affair. Sad but true.

[HermioneG]

Wow! Speak for yourself! I am so glad my M is nothing like this....

 

Yes, we work. Yes, we have chores. But that does not make it less enjoyable or pleasant - working together is fun. Doing chores together can be intimate, sexy, passionate, if you want it to be. If my M was "tolerable" the majority of the time I would not be in it. Life is too short to choose mediocrity.

 

Cleaning up a child's vomit is never going to be intimate or sexy. LOL

 

It can be a team effort? But not all chores are intimate, sexy, or performed via the artificial lens of an Instagram filter.

 

And that's okay. The ups and downs of life? Are far from mediocrity. They are real and the stuff life is made of.

 

When someone ( not you, specifically) tells others how awesome and fulfilling every minute is, it's usually the first clue that they are trying to convince themselves, far more than me.

 

Real life is messy. And complicated. I'd never have it any other way. That's where the joy is.

[KathyM]

A few weeks ago I read a thread started by a gentleman who spoke about his affair and his lack of remorse, as well as of his attempts to make his marriage work despite still being in love with the OW. Lots of replies, lots of questions, etc. What boggled me was a reply of another gentleman who said that the OW was to be seen as 'a cancer' to his marriage, a rot, something that had to be eliminated as soon as possible if the marriage was to work again.

The affair IS a cancer to the marriage, because it robs the marriage from the love and attention that the marriage needs to be healthy, and often ends up destroying the marriage.

Boy oh boy! And another one who spoke about his affairs and admitted that he's basically back with his W out of fear of being thrown out on the street as they'd have to split all assets and he wouldn't be able to afford a house on his own.

Loss of finances is often one thing that motivates men to stay in a marriage, but there are usually other reasons involved, such as wanting their children to have both parents on a full time basis, and often the man wants the benefits of both keeping the marriage and his sex/relationship on the side.

Leaving aside the fact that I personally don't agree with such statements, my question(s) is /are....what the hell, people? Since when marriage has become this horrible, angry beast that people's purpose in life is to tame? 'Save your marriage', 'fight for it', do this, do that....

Some people believe their marriage is salvageable and don't want to give up the good things about it, and believe it is worth saving. Some stay out of fear of change or fear of the unknown.

Q2, is it that 99% of 'working-it-out marriages' end up in this state (i.e. trying to fix it) because of financial reasons? I beg to believe so....a while ago I posted about my story myself and most BS or even other OW I suspect said stuff like 'a man gets back with his wife because he loves her', 'he's never left in the first place' etc. I'm not talking about the serial-internet- porn-MM-user going after a few girls at the same time, screwing then dumping them after 3 months tops. I'm talking about 'relationships', albeit extra-marital.

Financial reasons is only one factor that may be a reason people try to work out their marriage. There are usually other factors involved.

My (main, or clearer) question is why do so many women choose to stay, and press and literally twist their husband's arm into staying with them in 'the marriage', as if it was a horrifying thing to do if one wanted out, and why don't they see it for what it is and accept it for what it is? I see a lot of backlash against OW as if they are the only culprits when it's also the men's fault, if they truly didn't FEEL like having an affair they wouldn't.

As other posters have said, it is usually the WS that begs and pleads to stay in the marriage after the affair is discovered, not the other way around. Many BS's do leave the marriage when an affair is discovered. I remember reading statistics a few months back that said that most divorces involved infidelity on the part of one of the partners.

This 'marriage' became such a huge thing, a mountain to climb, a river to cross, a tornado to fight, as if the married couple is the only married couple in the world and their 'survival' (of the marriage) is what the propagation of the species depends upon.

Many/most WSs never wanted to lose their marriage, so they desparately try to hang onto it after the affair is discovered.

I could never coerce a man into loving me, staying with me, being married to me, anything of the sort. If he is truly happy with someone else, if he TRULY wants to be with someone else, if there's really nothing I can do to let him choose me (assuming it's one of the spouse's fault for something not working in the relationship), then he's free to go, prosper, live his life and I will do exactly the same. Yes, it's hard, yes, it's ****ty that someone cheated, it's not cool, but it's not the end of the world either.

As I said, it's usually the WSs begging and pleading to stay in the marriage after the affair is discovered, not the other way around.

The majority of women would rather demean and degrade themselves literally begging and doing anything possible to make their husbands stay in rather than keeping their dignity and just know when to walk away!

It's usually the WS begging and pleading to stay in the marriage, not the BS.

 

 

All those BS who claim their husbands came crawling back, crying crocodile tears, kissing their feet and swearing upon six gods that they never loved anyone else but them, it was just a mistake and it 'didn't mean anything' (my favorite), does anyone believe they're just lying to themselves? If those men were millionaires would they REALLY be crawling back and want to stay and not go about their lives as they don't have any problem with finances?

Men stay in their marriage for a variety of reasons. Finances is just one of them.

Another 5-star thing I've seen around here is women who say 'he threw away our life together and his family, his children, for another woman'- I think it's wrong to assume that just because a man doesn't want to be with you anymore, you should adopt this wrong attitude and extrapolate it to his children. Why not letting the man be a father to his kids (obviously, I'm talking about men who were always fathers to their children and not baby daddies and other creeps) and accepting that the only dynamic that has changed is his relationship with YOU and not his children? Why be selfish and put your children in the same boat with yourself?

 

*scratching head*

The affair affects the children, not just the marriage. The WS jeopardizes his children's home and family when he engages in an affair. He betrays them by jeopardizing their family. Men or BSs often cause considerable damage to their children when they choose to cheat on their spouse. Their children develop trust issues. They develop insecurity, and lose respect for the parent who cheated. The WS causes the children's home and security to be damaged. This very much does negatively affect children. You can't claim that only the marriage is involved and the children are not affected. Edited January 19, 2014 by KathyM

[MissBee]

Cleaning up a child's vomit is never going to be intimate or sexy. LOL

 

It can be a team effort? But not all chores are intimate, sexy, or performed via the artificial lens of an Instagram filter.

 

And that's okay. The ups and downs of life? Are far from mediocrity. They are real and the stuff life is made of.

 

When someone ( not you, specifically) tells others how awesome and fulfilling every minute is, it's usually the first clue that they are trying to convince themselves, far more than me.

 

Real life is messy. And complicated. I'd never have it any other way. That's where the joy is.

 

LMAO!!! This is hilarious!

 

But ditto to everything! I love this post .

[Eggplant]

4. 'Wasting of the best years of one's life'- those years pass either way, one, Two, why consider it wasting just because the outcome doesn't favor YOU and YOUR dreams of 'till death do us part'. Yes, it's hard emotionally speaking but IF the spouse wants out (or his actions prove it), why emotionally blackmail him into staying with such accusations? So basically you're pulling some card to make him stay with you, because you gave the best years of your life. He also did.

It's hard for women emotionally but also financially. In my case the BW was a stay-at-home mother who lived in a third world country. Regardless of her personal feelings for her husband, there was a contract made. She'd done her part by being a faithful wife, staying in his house, and giving him children, and in return she'd appreciate not having to be selling herself out on the street and begging for scraps. For her, you can't say "those years pass either way." She needed to invest those years wisely for her personal bodily well-being. Secondly, I suppose any time a contract is made, you can say the party paying first and receiving later is blackmailing the other. You pay a guy a lot of money to paint your house, then he disappears and doesn't paint it. He's got the money, and he doesn't want to paint your house. Why should you blackmail him into doing something he doesn't want to do?

 

5. It's harder for middle-aged women with children to remarry-. this isn't my fault, folks. This is something that has been around since the beginning of time, it's biology and it stands encrypted in our genetic codes. A man stays fertile pretty much until the last day of his life as opposed to a woman who is no longer 'viable' after the age of 50. I am a woman too, I will also get old, this is something I am very aware of. Unfortunately it's a reality we can't control, and I'd rather not stay with a man who stays with me out of pity or blackmail. Brr. Is this a reason why a husband shouldn't divorce, because 'f*ck you, a*hole, I spent my youth and good years on you and now you're turning your back on me? No way, you're staying!'. Yes he is staying, then having an affair...after affair...affair etc. Not something I'd want.

Most women wouldn't want to stay with a man who didn't want to stay with them. This is why women's staying at home with the children and giving up her career in this day and age is a bad idea. Because people have your attitude. Marriage is an "extra-curricular" cherry on top, and nobody should have to put his or her personal needs on hold just because they made a silly life-long commitment. If women cannot count on a provider to stay when the wind changes (and of course the wind always changes), then our whole society and way of raising children needs to change as well. I, for one, would like to stay at home with my children, but I see that I need to develop my own career to support myself and save for retirement.

 

As far as the staying and continuing to have an affair, in a lot of cultures, it's considered normal and to be expected.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Eggplant

[Arieswoman]

Hermione G nails it when she says

 

Cleaning up a child's vomit is never going to be intimate or sexy. LOL

 

It can be a team effort? But not all chores are intimate, sexy, or performed via the artificial lens of an Instagram filter.

 

And that's okay. The ups and downs of life? Are far from mediocrity. They are real and the stuff life is made of.

 

When someone ( not you, specifically) tells others how awesome and fulfilling every minute is, it's usually the first clue that they are trying to convince themselves, far more than me.

 

Real life is messy. And complicated. I'd never have it any other way. That's where the joy is.

 

I can think of women who post all this stuff on FB about how wonderful their husbands are, and wonder why they on the computer at 11.30pm at night when they could be involved in errr, cough, other ways with these wonderful men.

Who are they trying to convince, their readers or themselves?

[No Limit]

Oh my, yet another ignorant statement....OP where are you getting all of this information! Where are your sources?

 

Children are smarter then people give them credit for. They pick up on things. Actually, my child was the one who tipped me off about a possible affair. My child was placed in a position that they never should have been placed in after overhearing a conversation between WS and AP.

 

Why do so many AP claim the BS poisons the kids against the WS? If the WS had not made the choice to engage in the affair, then there would be nothing to hide from the kids. This is yet another topic that others love to blame the victim for. Really, own your ****! Ow/m often complain about the BS placing blame on them for the affair...hey pot, meet kettle!!!

 

I can only fully agree to this. I was 4 years old when my mom asked me about how my day with dad was and me telling her about that nice other woman we had met in the park. She asked me how she looked like and when I mentioned red hair she went to the phone and informed him of their divorce immediatly, recognizing my description of that other woman to be the affair partner that he had sworn to have ended.

 

Children do notice. And sooner or later they will ask if they don't get the whole picture. What is the BS supposed to tell them, that daddy's too busy? Or to ask differently, why would a BS make up an excuse and lie to their own child/ren for the betrayer?

 

The ones who betray do all of this to themselves. They did it, caused it, and now they will have to take responsibility for it. Of course it will cause pain to the kids as well, boy was I confused when suddenly I didn't see my father anymore from one day to the next. Haven't seen him ever since either, only heard from mutual friends of my mom that I have at least 3 half-siblings.

[krazikat]

I can only fully agree to this. I was 4 years old when my mom asked me about how my day with dad was and me telling her about that nice other woman we had met in the park. She asked me how she looked like and when I mentioned red hair she went to the phone and informed him of their divorce immediatly, recognizing my description of that other woman to be the affair partner that he had sworn to have ended.

 

Children do notice. And sooner or later they will ask if they don't get the whole picture. What is the BS supposed to tell them, that daddy's too busy? Or to ask differently, why would a BS make up an excuse and lie to their own child/ren for the betrayer?

 

The ones who betray do all of this to themselves. They did it, caused it, and now they will have to take responsibility for it. Of course it will cause pain to the kids as well, boy was I confused when suddenly I didn't see my father anymore from one day to the next. Haven't seen him ever since either, only heard from mutual friends of my mom that I have at least 3 half-siblings.

 

Exactly. And for a child of any age it is confusing, and as they get older and are able to put 2+2 together, the anger comes....not because of bs but because they make their own choice and have their own feelings about the situation. So your dad disappeared? That is awful. I experienced the same with my oldest childs father...we were never married but I ended the relationship when he cheated while I was pregnant, and he disappeared.

 

When my h cheated, My child was pissed! She is late teens and she refused to speak with him for about 2 months. She did not hold back with me, either, she didnt understand why I was staying and was very unhappy about it all.

 

I then made the decision to tell her about my own indiscretion that occurred before we married. She shook her head and asked what is wrong with adults.

 

She ultimately forgave him and they are close again. But HIS CHOICES are what made her angry hurt, and disappointed.

[Eggplant]

Two, why consider it wasting just because the outcome doesn't favor YOU and YOUR dreams of 'till death do us part'.

It's always amusing when an OW is outraged about the BS's selfishness and lack of consideration for the happiness of others. The BW is going to look out for herself and defend her territory. That's what everybody else is doing.

[krazikat]

Wow! Speak for yourself! I am so glad my M is nothing like this....

 

Yes, we work. Yes, we have chores. But that does not make it less enjoyable or pleasant - working together is fun. Doing chores together can be intimate, sexy, passionate, if you want it to be. If my M was "tolerable" the majority of the time I would not be in it. Life is too short to choose mediocrity.

 

Okay COCO get real now. There are many things in life that occur that are neither sexy nor fun...I am starting to believe you are making stuff up. You make comments even to ow in pain about how wonderful your m is. Speaking of, why do you still consider yourself ow if you are married now? How would you react if your husband cheated on you? Would you go NUTS or would you not have an issue with it since you have stated that affairs have never been a big deal to you?

[No Limit]

So your dad disappeared? That is awful.

 

It's a long story. He had to disappear, in a way.

 

Tried to get back in touch when I became 16 and he probably expected me to earn money soon, but I never reacted to it. I wonder about those parts of his family which I've also met when being very young, but my memory is fading and I can barely remember anything anymore.

 

I don't miss him, I don't need him. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with a man who hurt my mother so much, and I'm glad that she was financially independent and strong enough to not go on with a fake family life. I'd never put my mother through the pain of seeing him again, and I dare say that this doesn't just count for me. I couldn't be selfish enough to put my mom through stuff like this just because some guy wants to lessen his guilt maybe, and be a good father instead?

 

Maybe it's just my opinion now because of my zero tolerance for infidelity or betrayal. No hard feelings, but also no sympathy. Just pack your things and leave instead of carrying on as if nothing ever happened like a coward.

[BurnedAndLost]

Oh boy. Here we are again. Yet another thread about how selfish BSes are for wanting to fight for someone they love,instead of 'unleashing' their WS to have their happily ever after with their AP. Ridiculous.

 

Why are some individuals so adamant that if a Ws chooses to stay its only because the Bs is forcing them to? Nobody can force anyone to stay married to them. Period. Some WS stay because they love their spouse and truly want to try to work on things before throwing in the towel. Sure some do stay for the kids, financial concerns, etc, but again, that is their choice. If a WS truly loved their AP they would be willing to lose these things in order to be with them. Some ( most? ) married men will stay with their wives/partners because they don't think the alternative is good enough. That is what it is and people need to accept that.

 

I also love how some APs will go on and on how much they look down on BSes who stay, yet they are the ones who willingly engaged in an affair with someone who is unavailable and were willing to be kept a secret and lied to. How is that any different?

 

These are classic lines from an AP who is angry that things didn't go their way.

[Cressida]

I can only fully agree to this. I was 4 years old when my mom asked me about how my day with dad was and me telling her about that nice other woman we had met in the park. She asked me how she looked like and when I mentioned red hair she went to the phone and informed him of their divorce immediatly, recognizing my description of that other woman to be the affair partner that he had sworn to have ended.

 

 

This is exactly what is wrong. Why does one spouse have to involve a child into the whole thing, that was my initial question. I hope you weren't present to this scene.

 

Yes children develop attachment and commitment problems and low self-esteem if things aren't properly handled by the parents, in which with all due respect, 99% of people seem to have your mentality. As long as the WS is exactly the same person with their children there's no need to make a child face a marital problem that he cannot comprehend. Or do spouses discuss about everything in their marital relationship with their children? I have yet to hear about parents polling their sex lives with their children, for example (a far-fetched one, but that's exactly the point). Some things belong to the marital realm only and if the major problem is to explain why one parent doesn't live under the same roof anymore, I believe it's a bargain compared to the price to pay if adopting a behavior like the one you described.

[Cressida]

Oh boy. Here we are again. Yet another thread about how selfish BSes are for wanting to fight for someone they love,instead of 'unleashing' their WS to have their happily ever after with their AP. Ridiculous.

 

Why are some individuals so adamant that if a Ws chooses to stay its only because the Bs is forcing them to? Nobody can force anyone to stay married to them. Period. Some WS stay because they love their spouse and truly want to try to work on things before throwing in the towel. Sure some do stay for the kids, financial concerns,

 

These are classic lines from an AP who is angry that things didn't go their way.

 

I was only trying to poll if the financial reason (1) and pressure from the wife (2) are the REAL reasons a man stays with his wife and not with the OW. I think you answered your own question. It is true SOME truly loved their wives and never intended to really hurt them- but then again why would they have an affair? I clearly said I don't mean the sordid type of thing, but real 'relationships'. It's mostly financial reasons (1) and the pressure from the wife, a cluster of all the other things you mentioned. He 'won't go'- hell yea he won't after the sh*it storm he has to deal with, especially if the kids are young. Look at all the other women writing here how an affair affects children just because they're 'perceptive', and not because someone, *cough cough I wonder who* tells them. Ridiculous indeed*!

[krazikat]

This is exactly what is wrong. Why does one spouse have to involve a child into the whole thing, that was my initial question. I hope you weren't present to this scene.

 

Yes children develop attachment and commitment problems and low self-esteem if things aren't properly handled by the parents, in which with all due respect, 99% of people seem to have your mentality. As long as the WS is exactly the same person with their children there's no need to make a child face a marital problem that he cannot comprehend. Or do spouses discuss about everything in their marital relationship with their children? I have yet to hear about parents polling their sex lives with their children, for example (a far-fetched one, but that's exactly the point). Some things belong to the marital realm only and if the major problem is to explain why one parent doesn't live under the same roof anymore, I believe it's a bargain compared to the price to pay if adopting a behavior like the one you described.

 

What behavior are you going on about now? The mother asking how the park was and being told about the nice lady that was there? Are you serious????

[krazikat]

I was only trying to poll if the financial reason (1) and pressure from the wife (2) are the REAL reasons a man stays with his wife and not with the OW. I think you answered your own question. It is true SOME truly loved their wives and never intended to really hurt them- but then again why would they have an affair? I clearly said I don't mean the sordid type of thing, but real 'relationships'. It's mostly financial reasons (1) and the pressure from the wife, a cluster of all the other things you mentioned. He 'won't go'- hell yea he won't after the sh*it storm he has to deal with, especially if the kids are young. Look at all the other women writing here how an affair affects children just because they're 'perceptive', and not because someone, *cough cough I wonder who* tells them. Ridiculous indeed*!

 

I recommend that you go to the library and rent some books written by professionals that discuss why people cheat. You are basing all of your beliefs on typical ow/m comments. Do some research, you may be surprised by what you find...

[HermioneG]

I recommend that you go to the library and rent some books written by professionals that discuss why people cheat. You are basing all of your beliefs on typical ow/m comments. Do some research, you may be surprised by what you find...

 

Yes.

 

A good place to start is with Frank Pittman. Shirley Glass and Helen Fisher are also excellent resources.

 

Understanding the psychological dynamic would go a long way towards answering the OP's questions. Many of her queries are based on false assumptions, so they can't actually be answered to her satisfaction.

 

An understanding of the underpinnings of why affairs happen would do much to bring clarity.

[Cressida]

What behavior are you going on about now? The mother asking how the park was and being told about the nice lady that was there? Are you serious????

 

No, about the going to the phone and telling the husband that she wanted a divorce. I also wrote that I hope the lady who's writing this wasn't present to the scene.

[Cressida]

Yes.

 

A good place to start is with Frank Pittman. Shirley Glass and Helen Fisher are also excellent resources.

 

Understanding the psychological dynamic would go a long way towards answering the OP's questions. Many of her queries are based on false assumptions, so they can't actually be answered to her satisfaction.

 

An understanding of the underpinnings of why affairs happen would do much to bring clarity.

 

So what would be the underpinnings for affair happening, according to you? I personally also heard the 'the affair didn't mean anything, it was just sex, he came back crawling' thing. Why doesn't the husband want to talk about improving his sex life with his wife, to whom he committed for a lifetime of endless love and dedication?

[HermioneG]

No, about the going to the phone and telling the husband that she wanted a divorce. I also wrote that I hope the lady who's writing this wasn't present to the scene.

 

Because it would have been awful that her cheating father put her in that position?

 

I agree. It is terrible that he placed his four year in the company of his affair partner, without his wife's knowledge, and created that issue.

 

It's terrible choice by him.

[krazikat]

No, about the going to the phone and telling the husband that she wanted a divorce. I also wrote that I hope the lady who's writing this wasn't present to the scene.

 

Why not go and call the husband and say its over...and please. bS cant say this in front of the child? What about the stupid ass husband taking his kid to hang out with the ow? THAT is scandalous....yet your focus is all on the bs. You need to wake up chica, I am sorry for your pain as an ow but take your blinders off...

[Cressida]

Because it would have been awful that her cheating father put her in that position?

 

I agree. It is terrible that he placed his four year in the company of his affair partner, without his wife's knowledge, and created that issue.

 

It's terrible choice by him.

 

Yes it was awful what he did but in this case, the child only saw a 'nice lady with red hair', not a home-wrecking beast. I believe it was the mother who realistically did something off-limits child-wise. What her father did was awful when she'd been 20 years old and able to comprehend. What her mother did had more scarring potential. THIS is what I mean, THIS type of mentality. Do you honestly believe the little girl knew what was going on?

[BurnedAndLost]

I recommend that you go to the library and rent some books written by professionals that discuss why people cheat. You are basing all of your beliefs on typical ow/m comments. Do some research, you may be surprised by what you find...

Yup. I don't think there is anything left to be said to the OP. She is clearly delusional and bitter. I don't buy that she is happy with the outcome of her affair at all. Her posts are dripping with contempt for bses who are 'stealing' the happiness of others.

[krazikat]

So what would be the underpinnings for affair happening, according to you? I personally also heard the 'the affair didn't mean anything, it was just sex, he came back crawling' thing. Why doesn't the husband want to talk about improving his sex life with his wife, to whom he committed for a lifetime of endless love and dedication?

 

Go get the books and read them. No one here is going to say anything that you will accept because you are already presumptuous about affairs and stuck in your skewed views. Please, go get the books. Perhaps the books can help you remove your blinders and see the truth.