Three Years On - Can't Forget

[tired girl]

It absolutely could happen that she didn't do it.she may have messed around but not had sex. She has agreed to do it.

 

You seem to have a need to believe that it happened. Are you looking for a reason to get out of the M? You already have plenty even if she didn't have sex. You can be done and that is ok.

[LostInM]

There is a novel "he knew he was right" by david tennant. BBc has a drama of it used to be on netflix. Anyways, the premise is this guy is determined he is right, his wife cheated, and nothing will persuade him he is wrong. In the end he dies as a crazy man because he was driven nuts by his stubborness to be right. Your wife did cheat but denies intercourse. You seem so determined it did happen that even polygraph won't change your mind... So you see it as pointless despite the fact that we have told you about parking lot confessions.

 

So are you afraid to be wrong? Or do you really not beliee she had sex deep down and don't want to have your fear confirmed? Because you are not being rational. Your not fresh in DDay it is time to take action and responsibility here.

 

Just do the damn polygraph. Nobody here knows if your wife had sex in that hotel.

 

I don't care about being right. I don't care at this point that she did have sex. We had huge issues I didn't realize. We worked them out. The woman she is now is what she was when I met and fell in love with her. She does everything to make me feel better. She does anything I ask and denies me nothing. I just want to stop and enjoy this before it's gone. Before she gives up and moves on. She swears she isn't going anywhere but I know this is wearing on her. She doesn't let it stop her though. She keeps making sure I'm always her first priority and concedes anything that seems to trigger.

 

I need to stop somehow.

[Owl]

You are being irrational. You already are obsessing over it.

 

You don't KNOW she screwed him. You can't KNOW that as you weren't there. You only KNOW she SAYS she didn't. And you only have your own idea of what happened and how it would have happened based on your own perception, personality and what not. Call her bluff if she is bluffig and do the polygraph.

 

And it is extrememly possible she could not take thefantasy to a reality and did chicken out. Happens more than you know. Flirting and dirty talk is just that... Talk and often easy to justify away. But to actually have intercourse? To make it "really happening" for some that is a big line to cross. A lot of people even use booze to help cross it but doesn't aound like she could.

 

Take the polygraph before you lose your mind.

 

I'd almost agree with you, except for the fact that she lied (by ommission) about the motel visit. And she lied (again by ommission) about the previous affairs.

 

There's a pattern of behavior forming here.

 

I tend to agree with the OP's viewpoint that she did 'go through with it'.

 

Her behavior is typical of a WS who's been caught. Deny, minimize, redirect.

 

His behavior is also typical of a BS who has been 'trickle-truthed'...hard to know what to believe, when you're not told the truth from the beginning.

[tired girl]

Have you tried any kind of counseling?

 

When you have been TT, and gaslighted for a long period of time, trust does not come easy. I know, has happened to me for 18 yrs with my H. So my triggers are deep and often. No trust. Well minimal. He knows this, and we deal with it. I have told him that I may never get to 100% with him and he needs to decide if he can deal with that.

 

Are you having more problems with the fact that you trigger or with fear that she will get tired of it?

[LostInM]

I don't know if this matters but she only trickle truthed until we got into therapy. She pretty much answered everything i asked after she realized I wasn't leaving but trying to work it out.

 

She said she never said anything about the room because nothing happened that day, she didn't even see him. She claims she left before he got there so to her the flirting and talk at work was still just flirting and she told me everything I asked about. Some was very hard to hear but she kept going.

 

We had a lot if problems. We had issues I didn't even realize we had til we did therapy.

 

The woman she is now is what she was when I met and fell in love with her 20 years ago. She does everything and anything I ask. She drops everything for me, she answers any questions. She makes sure she goes to bed when I go to bed and wraps herself around me and doesn't let go until I get out if bed the next morning. In all respects she is the perfect companion now and the loving caring wife I remember her as.

 

I can't stop feeling bad. Therapy hadn't worked, exercise, hobbies none of it clears my mind. It stops me thinking for a short time but it always returns.

 

She cheated but I am going to destroy this marriage if I can't stop.

[janedoe67]

She likely DID have sex...and intercourse is not the only thing that qualifies as sex.

 

Your line about wanting to enjoy it before it is gone stuck out to me and made me think that as all over the place as you might seem to be on paper about this you are already ahead of the game. She's doing everything right now but you don't know if it's enough. You don't want to throw away something that is good again but don't want to obsess over this forever. You have no idea how many men relish having a now-good wife AND obsessing. At least you have enough character to make a choice.

 

Owl has the best advice when he said to honestly take stock of how you want to live and move forward.

[tired girl]

Have you tried any medications? I know men tend to be against that, but sometimes you can take them for a short time period, just long enough to stop the circular thoughts. It breaks the pattern so to speak.

[LostInM]

You are being irrational. You already are obsessing over it.

 

You don't KNOW she screwed him. You can't KNOW that as you weren't there. You only KNOW she SAYS she didn't. And you only have your own idea of what happened and how it would have happened based on your own perception, personality and what not. Call her bluff if she is bluffig and do the polygraph.

 

And it is extrememly possible she could not take thefantasy to a reality and did chicken out. Happens more than you know. Flirting and dirty talk is just that... Talk and often easy to justify away. But to actually have intercourse? To make it "really happening" for some that is a big line to cross. A lot of people even use booze to help cross it but doesn't aound like she could.

 

Take the polygraph before you lose your mind.

 

I don't think she's bluffing. She called several places and even scheduled one. I didn't want to go. She had no idea at that point I wouldn't go. She scheduled it because I asked for it.

[Fluttershy]

I'd almost agree with you, except for the fact that she lied (by ommission) about the motel visit. And she lied (again by ommission) about the previous affairs.

 

There's a pattern of behavior forming here.

 

I tend to agree with the OP's viewpoint that she did 'go through with it'.

 

Her behavior is typical of a WS who's been caught. Deny, minimize, redirect.

 

His behavior is also typical of a BS who has been 'trickle-truthed'...hard to know what to believe, when you're not told the truth from the beginning.

 

I didn't say he was being irrational for thinking she had sex. He is being irrational in not taking her up on the polygraph because he doesn't want to reopen her having had sex... If he gets the confirmation she did but that subject is already open and he already is obsessing about it.

 

Sounds to me more like she figured out how to be a remorseful wayward. It is normal that she minimized at first. She would have had no idea. Because nothing happened at the hotel (if this is true) and he hadn't found out she probably thought mentioning it would only convince him there was sex when there wasn't. That was a bad move on her part because he found out and then it was just another trickle truth. But wether ahe confessed it or not she was probably right and as a man he could not fathom going tonall that work and not getting some. As a woman I get it.

 

If she is now livin an authentic life she can never say she had sex if she disn't so everytime he brings it up she will cry because as twisted as it is xonsiderig the circumstance... She will feel falsey accused with no way to prove her innocence... On that one point. If she did have sex an is lying I wonder how much longer can her remorseful act last? You can't lie about something that big and yet e workin on the marriage!

[beach]

I guess I do but I believe there is no way all of that happened and she didn't screw him. She's a grown women, not a scared teen. If she drove there, got out of the car, walked inside, rented a room, paid and walked out with a key then there is no way she left. Why would she leave? This other guy has obviously turned her on enough to get her to drive there and to pay for the room, she goes through the whole process and doesn't even go in the room? She turns around gives the key back and leaves? I'm sorry. Who here would believe that?

 

I believe it's damage control on her part to try and spare me some of my dignity. She trickle truthed until we were in therapy and realized I wasn't leaving. Then she basically answered everything I asked. She said she never told me about the room in therapy because she didn't have sex.

 

She admitted to some physical contact and him saying things to her I don't want to repeat again but always claimed it was flirting on her part, no sex.

 

I know that's not true. I know she slept with him that afternoon and probably many other afternoons. I don't want to know anymore then I already do. If I get a lie detector and it shows she screwed him I don't want to start obsessing all over again about everything they did.

 

I just want to feel secure again and not feel like I'm second to some younger guy. I want to believe I can be everything my wife needs. Both guys were much younger. Why cheat with younger guys? Only one reason I can think of, sex. I'm 45. I remember our sex life 15 years ago. I can't compete with some guy who is that young.

 

There is NO way to feel secure when your wife has consistently been dishonest.

 

She consistently needs other men. Then lies.

 

A persons pattern shows who they are and what they are about.

 

She's proven she's a liar and a cheat.

 

Accept that - or leave her. Only two options she's given you with her lousy history.

[LostInM]

She likely DID have sex...and intercourse is not the only thing that qualifies as sex.

 

Your line about wanting to enjoy it before it is gone stuck out to me and made me think that as all over the place as you might seem to be on paper about this you are already ahead of the game. She's doing everything right now but you don't know if it's enough. You don't want to throw away something that is good again but don't want to obsess over this forever. You have no idea how many men relish having a now-good wife AND obsessing. At least you have enough character to make a choice.

 

Owl has the best advice when he said to honestly take stock of how you want to live and move forward.

 

I thought along those lines. I asked about blow job, hand job, kissing, rubbing through clothing, sexting, phone sex. she swears other then inappropriate conversations about sex (likes, dislikes, what she did for me, what she wouldn't do, his suggestions to spice up our marriage) there was nothing that I would consider sex.

 

She does everything that people here say she needs to and does it without hesitating. I've lurked here for two years. She is the perfect companion now and what most guys would call the perfect wife.

[Fluttershy]

I don't know if this matters but she only trickle truthed until we got into therapy. She pretty much answered everything i asked after she realized I wasn't leaving but trying to work it out.

 

She said she never said anything about the room because nothing happened that day, she didn't even see him. She claims she left before he got there so to her the flirting and talk at work was still just flirting and she told me everything I asked about. Some was very hard to hear but she kept going.

 

We had a lot if problems. We had issues I didn't even realize we had til we did therapy.

 

The woman she is now is what she was when I met and fell in love with her 20 years ago. She does everything and anything I ask. She drops everything for me, she answers any questions. She makes sure she goes to bed when I go to bed and wraps herself around me and doesn't let go until I get out if bed the next morning. In all respects she is the perfect companion now and the loving caring wife I remember her as.

 

I can't stop feeling bad. Therapy hadn't worked, exercise, hobbies none of it clears my mind. It stops me thinking for a short time but it always returns.

 

She cheated but I am going to destroy this marriage if I can't stop.

 

What do you do to her? Maybe your emotional stare is affecte because your marriage has been one sides for too long now. Maybe you need to show her some affection (not sex) and do everything back that she is doing for you. Maybe she has become such a mouse you no longer respect her or miss having a real fallable human being to interact with.

 

As you havent mentioned your side and actions at all that is merely based on her actions alone. Disregard if you are an attentive loving husband at least some of the time.

[Fluttershy]

I don't think she's bluffing. She called several places and even scheduled one. I didn't want to go. She had no idea at that point I wouldn't go. She scheduled it because I asked for it.

 

Then why is your head up your butt??? Your last excuse for not going is weak because you ARE obsessing and it is stopping tou from moving forward with or without her.

[tired girl]

You are standing in your own way. Why?

[LostInM]

There is NO way to feel secure when your wife has consistently been dishonest.

 

She consistently needs other men. Then lies.

 

A persons pattern shows who they are and what they are about.

 

She's proven she's a liar and a cheat.

 

Accept that - or leave her. Only two options she's given you with her lousy history.

 

I had suspected something was going on, the first time in my marriage I thought so. I don't think she's been doing it our whole marriage. If I had bothered to look at all I would have found it immediately. She barely covered it up. It's almost like she wanted me to find out. I was a stupid macho guy, my wife would never do that and dismissed it.

 

I guess though you've hit on my fear. We've fixed a broken marriage. She is the perfect wife. There isn't anything she won't do for me.

 

But when is she going to do it again? We are going to have more problems in our marriage. We are going to have more money problems.

 

Do cheaters always cheat? Can they ever change?

[Fluttershy]

 

Do cheaters always cheat? Can they ever change?

 

Of course they can and no "once. Cheater always a cheater." is not true.

 

But, only time will tell if your spouse will backslide again. That is the risk of R. Though here is another though: find someone new and you have no idea i they will ever cheat on yoi either. At least when you have rebuilt yor marriage and the WS has done everything right u are in a "devil you know" situation. Doesn't sound like your wife was a skilled cheater. You will know the signs next time. Plus, if she is truly remorseful she won't want to put either of you thru that again. Some people have to learn the hard way.

 

So thats that... Now why won't you do the poly?

[LostInM]

What do you do to her? Maybe your emotional stare is affecte because your marriage has been one sides for too long now. Maybe you need to show her some affection (not sex) and do everything back that she is doing for you. Maybe she has become such a mouse you no longer respect her or miss having a real fallable human being to interact with.

 

As you havent mentioned your side and actions at all that is merely based on her actions alone. Disregard if you are an attentive loving husband at least some of the time.

 

I try to be loving. I make dinner every night, I sit with her. I walk with her once a week. I bring flowers home once a month. I ask her constantly what I can do for her. She always says to stop thinking, stop worrying, stop stressing. She tells me all the time she's sorry and to stop worrying about her. I can't stop worrying though. If I'm not giving what she needs she will do this again.

 

I'm caught in a horrible spiral I can't get out of.

[Owl]

Owl has the best advice when he said to honestly take stock of how you want to live and move forward.

 

Owl alway has the best advice! :D

 

It's really all the OP can do. If he wants to save the marriage...then he can attend IC to help him "get over it" if he wants to. If he wants to end it...then he can file for D if that's what he wants.

 

Right now, he's not making much progress towards recovery one way or another. He's foundering in no direction...he needs to pick a direction, get a plan, and start moving in his chosen direction.

 

OP, you need to quit reacting...and start DOING.

 

If she's willing to do the poly...but you won't let her...who is sabotaging the recovery effort here?

 

SHE needs to rebuild the trust she destroyed. YOU need to let her.

 

OR don't...divorce and cut your losses.

 

Up to you.

[Fluttershy]

I try to be loving. I make dinner every night, I sit with her. I walk with her once a week. I bring flowers home once a month. I ask her constantly what I can do for her. She always says to stop thinking, stop worrying, stop stressing. She tells me all the time she's sorry and to stop worrying about her. I can't stop worrying though. If I'm not giving what she needs she will do this again.

 

I'm caught in a horrible spiral I can't get out of.

 

You need IC. And I don't say this lightly... Because I dont believe it is always a good idea and i also doubt a lot of counsellors out there.

 

You are being your own worse enemy and even if you leave her you will take that fear with you. You know in your head you can't control other people's actions but... You act like you can. Get yourself sorted so you can be happy. You should be doing those things because you love her and to see that smile on her face.

[tired girl]

Worst case scenario, she cheats again. Can you survive that? If you can't sayt that in the end you can be ok without her, then you need to work on you.

[LostInM]

You need IC. And I don't say this lightly... Because I dont believe it is always a good idea and i also doubt a lot of counsellors out there.

 

You are being your own worse enemy and even if you leave her you will take that fear with you. You know in your head you can't control other people's actions but... You act like you can. Get yourself sorted so you can be happy. You should be doing those things because you love her and to see that smile on her face.

 

To be honest I feel talked out. I did IC since I found out in March about the motel room charge. I really don't care about the poly and at this point I really don't care about the affairs. They happened. Sex or no sex, she cheated.

 

I can't shake the insecurity and the fear if backslide. I am nothing like I was when we married and nothing like I was last year before finding the room charge. Couples therapy worked. I realized how I contributed to the issues that led to her cheating. It doesn't make it ok but I understand I had a hand in it.

 

My self confidence is gone. The last two doctors seemed more concerned with what I did to cause the situation them how to stop feeling insecure and enjoy the new life we have in front of us.

 

She is a differant woman then she was but I can't stop thinking it's out there in the horizon, just looming and waiting to happen again. I have told her if I even suspect anything in the future I'm gone. I'm not doing this again. I shouldn't have had to do it once but like I said. We had problems.

[GreySky]

I'm thinking that if you do go through with having her take the polygraph, and she ends up being truthful all along, maybe you are afraid that things will maybe turn back to the way they were?

 

If you continue on the way that you are, you will be in the way of the R... if she is asking to take the polygraph, provide the tester with the questions you NEED answers to, and then start moving forward. If your wife is truthful, then whatever happened is a lot less than the usual stories here on LS. I know it's no consolation, but things could have been a lot worse...

[LostInM]

Worst case scenario, she cheats again. Can you survive that? If you can't sayt that in the end you can be ok without her, then you need to work on you.

 

I've already told her if I even think anything is going on I'm leaving. I'm not doing this again. She is a complete open book. She deleted her Facebook page and always leaves her phone on the table in front of us.

 

We fixed a broken marriage in therapy. I got my confidence back during that time. Our marriage was the best it's been in 10 years. Then I found out about the room in March. Two doctors later I feel less of a man, I have no confidence in myself and although after therapy our sex life was amazing I'm having issues constantly now in the bedroom. I can't stop thinking.

 

I don't want to know anymore. I don't want find anything else out that happened. As far as I was concerned our second marriage started when we finished therapy.

 

I can't get back there. I don't want a divorce but I can't live like this.

[tired girl]

You basically had a sort of Dday in March and it reset the clock. It destroyed all of the trust that you had rebuilt and this is why you are struggling so hard.

 

You did not have a hand in her cheating. That is all on her. Whatever problems there were in the M, she had other options and she didn't choose them. So what has she done to fix those coping skills. Has she fixed how she deals with herself when she is stressed?

 

You will never be perfect in this marriage and you can't expect yourself to be. Trying to hold yourself to an ideal of I have to be a certain way or she will cheat again, is no way to live. It seems like I am hearing overtones of that.

[LostInM]

I know this.

 

I don't need her to take a poly. At this point I don't care what she did. I dealt with that during our 19 months of therapy.

 

I need to get my self focused on the great marriage I have now. And it is great. But I have zero confidence in myself as a husband, as a lover, as a man.

 

IC has not worked. Hobbies haven't worked. Exercise hasn't worked. Her being the 1950's do everything the man wants hasn't worked.

 

She is frustrated. She wants to know what she can do. She says she will do it. I don't care if she is bothered by me thinking she had sex with another man if she didn't. I don't care. She needs to come to grips with that. She put herself in that boat. It's far less then the hurt I've gone through. She wants me to think nothing really happened and be the good little wife. The cheating, physical or not eliminated that. She will have to accept that.

 

Things were so good on March 8th and my world came crashing down on the 9th over something I had already thought she did anyway and dealt with in therapy.

 

I need help shutting down my brain. Like I said before, she cheated but I am destroying what us a better marriage now after addressing and fixing our problems then it was 5 years ago.

 

Nothing is working. Is it just over for me?