Three Years On - Can't Forget

[Fluttershy]

This make sense to me but I've always thought she had sex so I went into therapy that way and I was very angry. I said very hurtful things about her having sex. Even with her sobbing on the floor swearing she didn't have sex with anyone I was a maniac and belittled her. Once we started therapy those feelings went away. I always referred to her as having slept with him and she would always correct me. Maybe deep down inside I was holding onto a small piece of something that would prove she didn't. I don't think I was.

 

All I know was my marriage was fantastic after therapy. I didn't think at all about the other guys anymore.

 

I can't figure out why this is flaring things up so badly.

 

Being falsly accused of something you didn't do is hell. And while she may "deserve" it if you love her then get the polygraph. I don't see what is so hard about this.

 

She passes-she didn't have sex... And no more of you accusing her of doing something she didn't. You can focus on healing for what ACTUALLY happened and not what you ASSUME happened

 

She fails- well then you have one hell of an actress on your hands who has done EVERYTHING right except you know, stop lying. And she can no longer deny sex. So IF you move forward she won't correct you in MC again.

 

Seriously, what is the big deal against a poly? As I stated earlier the odds are even in favour of it showing you are right because polygraphs are not accurate in that they will read something as false when it is really true. Keeping the questions simple and havin only a few lowers this. Here is a good one

[Zenstudent]

Seaviews; I agree with you (made a similar post earlier on), and I don't like polygraphs at all - they aren't even used much where I come from.

 

But... maybe, it's possible that LostInM on a conscious level assumes that they had sex, but on a sub-conscious level hopes for a more appealing truth. He can tell himself all that he want, that they indeed had sex, but if he deep inside his mind hopes for it not to be true, it can add some stress.

 

If I had this issue myself, I wouldn't know what to do about it either, since I don't like polys. But lucky me, I know most of the ugly truth in detail

[LostInM]

This is not going to work out. "Did you have sex?" "No".

Did you blow him

did he eat you

did you lick his genitals

did he penetrate you

did you have anal sex

did you use kinky toys

did you use lubricants

did you tie each other up

did you touch? did you whisper dirty stuff into each other's ears

did you masturbate each other?

What one person calls sex and another are completely subjective. Is the ANSWER YES to any of those questions BLACK AND WHITE?

 

There are people out there who are convinced that if they don't have penetration AND ejaculate they have not had "SEX"!!! And get this, there are people who believe if they have NOT had SEX they were not in an AFFAIR!!!

 

Just how is a lie detector going to solve that problem about intepretations of what COUNTS?

 

It seems to me that whatever "truth" he gets from this lie detector issue is not his real issue. He has already decided that she did have sex. So what he needs to work on is FIX something in his neural pathways that are preventing him from MOVING ON. I don't see how this lie detector will FIX those neurons.

 

This is kind of how I feel. I don't think she actually screwed him, maybe just hand job, blowjob....she swears no but she did something to string him along for 3 months. Maybe the affair started slowly with just flirting for awhile but three months?

 

What guy is going to hang around for 3 months if he's not getting anything in return? She swears nothing at all happened. She hasn't been forcing the poly at all. When I found out about the room I mentioned it once and a week later she told me she found a couple places and wanted to know what day I wanted to do it.

 

She hasn't bought it up in a couple months now. I know everyone is saying take it but $400 to cause me further stress isn't exactly pleasant.

 

I do know this is helping massively. Anytime I get the slightest of a twinge of a feeling I tell myself stop, I come here, read a reply and I now realize that I defend her somewhat.

 

To me she cheated plain and simple. Wether it was anal sex or rubbing him off while he talked dirty to her does it matter? Cheating is cheating. For me the big thing was kissing. I believe she didn't do that. I don't know why that's my big thing but it is.

 

After going through therapy I can understand her being attracted to a younger, good looking guy. I couldnt understand her feeling love for him. She says she didn't at all. With zero contact outside of work I believe that. The EA after this PA leads me to believe she did actually think this guy was a friend and he did try and force her into something.

 

She never hid the talking to the second guy. It was all over the phone bill and when I'd see something on FB she would tell me who it was.

Edited January 23, 2014 by LostInM

[dumped2013]

Dude,

I found out in July 2012 that my wife of 16 years had lied to me for 3 years about who she went on 3 overseas trips with. She finally came clean about not taking her mom but swears nothing went on. I could not let it go. I never trusted her again. Our divorce was final September 2013. I wasted a year of my life. I should have filed when I first found out.

[Fluttershy]

You guys are missing the point of the poly. First there is the parking lot confession. The WS soundly doubt their ability to pass the test and they have no idea what questions are being asked. Second, while you can't ask "di you love him" you can ask "did you have sex" as the OP's wife denied ANY sexual contact that question will be either she did have some sort of sexual contact or none.

 

Or you can ask "did you have intercourse" and all those other questions.

 

Actually it can be even easier than that

 

"did you other man show up at the hotel" as the OP's wife says she chickened out before he got there.

 

Or

 

Did you leave before any physical contact happened at the hotel

 

OP you say it doesn't matter but y your posts and by how you are going on it DOES matter. You can't truly reconcile with someone who is lying. How can you trust and respect her when she won't fess up to sexual contact even when you already believe it? Your subconscience is screaming at you and you have tried so much. What do you have to lose if you try this?

[LostInM]

You guys are missing the point of the poly. First there is the parking lot confession. The WS soundly doubt their ability to pass the test and they have no idea what questions are being asked. Second, while you can't ask "di you love him" you can ask "did you have sex" as the OP's wife denied ANY sexual contact that question will be either she did have some sort of sexual contact or none.

 

Or you can ask "did you have intercourse" and all those other questions.

 

Actually it can be even easier than that

 

"did you other man show up at the hotel" as the OP's wife says she chickened out before he got there.

 

Or

 

Did you leave before any physical contact happened at the hotel

 

OP you say it doesn't matter but y your posts and by how you are going on it DOES matter. You can't truly reconcile with someone who is lying. How can you trust and respect her when she won't fess up to sexual contact even when you already believe it? Your subconscience is screaming at you and you have tried so much. What do you have to lose if you try this?

 

I dont know. Maybe at this point I just want to hold into that little piece that doubts it's true. After we started therapy she answered everything I asked. She didn't hold back. I keep talking about the poly because other posts talk about it. Honestly I really appreciate everyone responses. Your taking time out of your life to help a complete stranger. I appreciate that from the bottom of my heart.

 

I don't think a poly is going to help me. I'm positive she had sex of some sort. At this point I think I need to focus on believing her and moving forward. I was really hoping to come here and learn some technique to train my brain. Even though this conversation went all over the place the last week it has been extremely helpful. It's very relaxing to come here and talk and dump things. I'm getting it off my chest and not taking it out on her again. I should have come here years ago.

 

I will see if I can find a poly nearby. I really don't want to know anymore though so I'm really hesitant. If we didn't have kids and 20 years together I wouldn't even be here. I would have divorced her. But we do have kids and we do have 20 years together.

Edited January 23, 2014 by LostInM

[drifter777]

This make sense to me but I've always thought she had sex so I went into therapy that way and I was very angry. I said very hurtful things about her having sex. Even with her sobbing on the floor swearing she didn't have sex with anyone I was a maniac and belittled her. Once we started therapy those feelings went away. I always referred to her as having slept with him and she would always correct me. Maybe deep down inside I was holding onto a small piece of something that would prove she didn't. I don't think I was.

 

All I know was my marriage was fantastic after therapy. I didn't think at all about the other guys anymore.

 

I can't figure out why this is flaring things up so badly.

 

Because you cannot bottle up your true emotions forever. You are still in denial because:

 

1) One phase of denial is you keep saying that the you "accept" that she had sex and have dealt with those feelings but in the next sentence you tell us how much you are suffering because this hotel bill made the fact that she had sex so real and your mind is stuck on this fact. Don't try to rationalize the conflict of these two statements - they stand as evidence on their own.

 

2) The other phase of your denial is refusing to accept how much damage her cheating has done to your marriage and to your psyche. You keep making excuses for her like "I was a bad husband. I understand why she wanted to screw a guy 15 years younger". As I said before, your contempt for her oozes from these words. You are minimizing a traumatic situation to avoid facing the truth.

 

This denial of your true feelings will continue to drive you crazy until you express your true feelings and do whatever you need to do to resolve them.

[LostInM]

Because you cannot bottle up your true emotions forever. You are still in denial because:

 

1) One phase of denial is you keep saying that the you "accept" that she had sex and have dealt with those feelings but in the next sentence you tell us how much you are suffering because this hotel bill made the fact that she had sex so real and your mind is stuck on this fact. Don't try to rationalize the conflict of these two statements - they stand as evidence on their own.

 

2) The other phase of your denial is refusing to accept how much damage her cheating has done to your marriage and to your psyche. You keep making excuses for her like "I was a bad husband. I understand why she wanted to screw a guy 15 years younger". As I said before, your contempt for her oozes from these words. You are minimizing a traumatic situation to avoid facing the truth.

 

This denial of your true feelings will continue to drive you crazy until you express your true feelings and do whatever you need to do to resolve them.

 

The motel bill didn't really bother me all that much when it happened. We didn't even fight about it. I made some snarky comment about the affair and she started crying and swearing nothing happened. She explained why she didn't tell me in therapy.

 

I didn't say I was a bad husband. I'm accepting my part in the situation that caused her to cheat. We had issues. She tried to get us help, she tried and I ignored it. That by no means is me accepting her screwing some guy. But I had a hand in creating the situation that led to it. I didn't say I understand her sleeping with a younger guy I said I understand why she would in that situation and how I couldn't understand if she told me she was in love with him.

 

Thank you for your comments though. I know I'm minimizing the trauma but my other choice is divorce. I'm not ready for divorce. I do have the paper work from the state I live in. She knows I have them. She knows I still think about leaving and I'm struggling again. She has also never faltered doing whatever I ask or need. My chances of another woman cheating on me are greater then my wife cheating again I believe.

 

I need to take my emotions out of this and get my head straight before I make a decision though. I just need someone way to stop the thoughts spiraling out of control.

 

So far posting here and listening to everyone has been better for me then the doctors. I should be paying you guys.

[LostInM]

The one thing that really bothers me and I just realized reading another topic here. I'm most scared of this happening again. Is she a serial cheater or was this the low spot in our marriage and now we will move ahead stronger.

 

I don't think I can trust myself that I believe she won't cheat again. I never thought she would ever cheat on me before and she was practically flaunting it in my face. It's like she wanted me to catch her. So how do I believe that it won't happen again when I couldn't even fathom it happening at all?

 

Does that make sense?

[drifter777]

Thank you for your comments though. I know I'm minimizing the trauma but my other choice is divorce. I'm not ready for divorce. I do have the paper work from the state I live in. She knows I have them. She knows I still think about leaving and I'm struggling again. She has also never faltered doing whatever I ask or need. My chances of another woman cheating on me are greater then my wife cheating again I believe.

Actually no - it's not a choice between just shut up and forget about it or divorce. That's way to simplistic. If she can give you the true facts (and you'll probably need the polygraph for this) you will know exactly what you have to work with - PA or EA. You say you just assume she had sex with the guys and are working from that place. Well, she denies it so right off the bat you are out of sync. If the worst is revealed and she confirms you assertion that she had all-out sex with the guy(s) you both have a place to start called the truth. Right now you say if you let all the traumatic pain that this truth will bring into your psyche your only response would be divorce. What about working to reconcile based on that truth and finding out if you are the kind of man who can give a cheating wife another chance. You can always divorce if it doesn't work out.

 

The one thing that really bothers me and I just realized reading another topic here. I'm most scared of this happening again. Is she a serial cheater or was this the low spot in our marriage and now we will move ahead stronger.

 

I don't think I can trust myself that I believe she won't cheat again. I never thought she would ever cheat on me before and she was practically flaunting it in my face. It's like she wanted me to catch her. So how do I believe that it won't happen again when I couldn't even fathom it happening at all?

 

Does that make sense?

Yes, your wife has destroyed the trust you had in her and is not doing enough to build it back up. I know, you've told us that she is doing everything "right" to repair your marriage, but it is not enough or not what you need. Think hard about what you think you need to believe she is NOT going to cheat again. What would that take? Will anything help repair the trust she destroyed?

[beach]

Yes, it makes sense.

 

You may never be capable of FULLY trusting her again. She ruined that.

 

10 years passed when I found out my exH was cheating again at the 20 year mark.

 

It's something you either move forward with or end the relationship.

 

That decision is up to you - and what you can/can't live with.

[LostInM]

Actually no - it's not a choice between just shut up and forget about it or divorce. That's way to simplistic. If she can give you the true facts (and you'll probably need the polygraph for this) you will know exactly what you have to work with - PA or EA. You say you just assume she had sex with the guys and are working from that place. Well, she denies it so right off the bat you are out of sync. If the worst is revealed and she confirms you assertion that she had all-out sex with the guy(s) you both have a place to start called the truth. Right now you say if you let all the traumatic pain that this truth will bring into your psyche your only response would be divorce. What about working to reconcile based on that truth and finding out if you are the kind of man who can give a cheating wife another chance. You can always divorce if it doesn't work out.

 

 

Yes, your wife has destroyed the trust you had in her and is not doing enough to build it back up. I know, you've told us that she is doing everything "right" to repair your marriage, but it is not enough or not what you need. Think hard about what you think you need to believe she is NOT going to cheat again. What would that take? Will anything help repair the trust she destroyed?

 

I really like your post. I do just want to go forward but I don't want to be looking over my shoulder or hers. I don't know what she can do to make beli e it won't happen again.

[goodyblue]

You guys are missing the point of the poly. First there is the parking lot confession. The WS soundly doubt their ability to pass the test and they have no idea what questions are being asked. Second, while you can't ask "di you love him" you can ask "did you have sex" as the OP's wife denied ANY sexual contact that question will be either she did have some sort of sexual contact or none.

 

Or you can ask "did you have intercourse" and all those other questions.

 

Actually it can be even easier than that

 

"did you other man show up at the hotel" as the OP's wife says she chickened out before he got there.

 

Or

 

Did you leave before any physical contact happened at the hotel

 

OP you say it doesn't matter but y your posts and by how you are going on it DOES matter. You can't truly reconcile with someone who is lying. How can you trust and respect her when she won't fess up to sexual contact even when you already believe it? Your subconscience is screaming at you and you have tried so much. What do you have to lose if you try this?

 

 

If you have to bully someone into telling you the truth, what's the point anyway? Treating her llike a child and saying "I won't be mad, just tell me" is ridiculous. Either trust her and move on, or leave.

[Fluttershy]

If you have to bully someone into telling you the truth, what's the point anyway? Treating her llike a child and saying "I won't be mad, just tell me" is ridiculous. Either trust her and move on, or leave.

 

Where is this bullying? The OP's wife wants a poly to prove she isn't lying. She brought it up first!

 

When someone proves to be a great liar there is nothing wrong with asking for verification. And since when are polygraphs a bullying way to do that?

[Spark1111]

I think one of the truest adages out there is: People with NOTHING to hide, hide NOTHING.

 

If you want, need a poly, then ASK for it. It is NOT an outrageous request if you are trying to restore a marriage with someone who has lied and deceived you to have an affair with another. PERIOD.

 

Her response to the request and her behavior while attending to the request are almost MORE important than the actual results.

 

Repeat: People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

 

FBS here.....and my FWS could have sworn the sky was blue and I would have had to walk outside to ascertain it was true.

 

After close to two years of lying to my loving, trusting, kind face that he HAD to work late, I could not believe a word out of his mouth.

 

In MC I tried to tell him it was why I could not believe the ILYs or...she meant nothing to me...or I never meant to leave you (despite what I told her) or anything.....

 

I believed NOTHING coming out of his mouth....Not the good or the bad.

 

So, if a poly gives you reassurance, and she is serious about being truthful and committing to the marriage, I say go for it.

 

And watch her response closely.....

[road]

If you have to bully someone into telling you the truth, what's the point anyway? Treating her llike a child and saying "I won't be mad, just tell me" is ridiculous. Either trust her and move on, or leave.

 

 

 

 

 

You fail to see two things.

 

 

The WW had no problem doing the things she did. She wanted to do those things. She enjoyed doing those things. She then should have no problem telling her BH what she did.

 

 

The second thing.

 

 

Almost every BH needs to know the full truth before they can leave their WW affair in the past.

[tired girl]

My husband knows the full truth without knowing details. He didn't want any. And the kissing thing was important to him to.

 

I think it is good that you are finding some help in coming here and releasing how you are feeling. If that can stop the spiral and help you come to grips with how you are feeling, then that is great. Maybe that is what you needed more than anything, a place where you feel like others understand what it is happening to you.

[drifter777]

My husband knows the full truth without knowing details. He didn't want any. And the kissing thing was important to him to.

 

I think it is good that you are finding some help in coming here and releasing how you are feeling. If that can stop the spiral and help you come to grips with how you are feeling, then that is great. Maybe that is what you needed more than anything, a place where you feel like others understand what it is happening to you.

Then you complied with his need to know and that's important. If he needed more details then it would have been vital that you provided them. The BS is entitled to know as much as they need/want - as long as they accept that they might hear something that disturbs them and are willing to take that risk. For me, I needed the details so that I could believe my WW was being completely open and honest. I can still feel her holding back - something that simmers in my mind all the time. I can't help but ask myself "what else is she holding back?". She is not entitled to judge what I can or cannot handle.

[LostInM]

My husband knows the full truth without knowing details. He didn't want any. And the kissing thing was important to him to.

 

I think it is good that you are finding some help in coming here and releasing how you are feeling. If that can stop the spiral and help you come to grips with how you are feeling, then that is great. Maybe that is what you needed more than anything, a place where you feel like others understand what it is happening to you.

 

This helping tremendously. If you don't mind me asking my wife is super paranoid about me leaving her. What did you do to show your husband that you were truthful about staying and working it out?

 

I can't convince my wife I'm not leaving her. I told her if I ever thought something is going on again I'm leaving. I did that after I found the motel room. I told her I'm here. I think you've had sex with two guys and I'm still here. Stop worrying about me leaving. I told her that if nothing is going on then she has nothing to worry about but she is fixated on that.

 

Several times it's crossed my mind that maybe one if them has contacted her again but she says no and there is nothing on any card or phone.

 

This is such a vicious thing to go through. I'm mad all over now again today that she did this to us.

 

(We just had a couple of emotional texts, I know something is bothering her and she finally told me she's constantly worried about me leaving.)

 

So now of course this is throwing all kinds if thoughts in my head!! Is she doing things in bed she really doesn't want to do because she feels guilty and if she doesn't I'll leave? Is she being nice to me at certain times only because she's worried I'll leave?

 

Love really sucks sometimes.

[tired girl]

I know for me, I didn't feel that I was worth it for him to stay. Why should he? Look at what I had done. I had to learn to overcome that kind of thinking and quit relying on him to feel better about who I was. Your wife needs to work on herself. This is at the root of why she did what she did. It has nothing to do with other men, it has to do with her not feeling worthy of you at this point.

[LostInM]

I know for me, I didn't feel that I was worth it for him to stay. Why should he? Look at what I had done. I had to learn to overcome that kind of thinking and quit relying on him to feel better about who I was. Your wife needs to work on herself. This is at the root of why she did what she did. It has nothing to do with other men, it has to do with her not feeling worthy of you at this point.

 

My problem is I've read here that most women have sex with OM to keep the attention. The affair is not about the sex.

 

In this case though there was no contact outside of work. No calls, no texts. Nothing. It looks like it was just sex. So how do I stop thinking it wasn't just because he was good looking and she wanted to **** him? If that's the case there is no way to prevent that. I've told her that and she just cries and apologizes. There is no security there for me so I understand why she thinks I'm going to leave but that just makes me think more it's going to happen again and downward I go.

 

I was having such a good day.

Edited January 24, 2014 by LostInM

[drifter777]

My problem is I've read here that most women have sex with OM to keep the attention. The affair is not about the sex.

 

In this case though there was no contact outside of work. No calls, no texts. Nothing. It looks like it was just sex. So how do I stop thinking it wasn't just because he was good looking and she wanted to **** him? If that's the case there is no way to prevent that. I've told her that and she just cries and apologizes. There is no security there for me so I understand why she thinks I'm going to leave but that just makes me think more it's going to happen again and downward I go.

 

I was having such a good day.

For the vast majority of betrayed husbands the fact that it wasn't "about the sex" doesn't mean a thing. The vivid images of her tangled up having sex with another man haunts him whether she says it was just to keep his attention or she just wanted to screw her brains out with some random guy. For most men there is no difference in the effect it has on their self-esteem and the ultimate effect it has on efforts to reconcile. Some men cannot live with these images and have to walk away to save their sanity and self-respect.

[LostInM]

For the vast majority of betrayed husbands the fact that it wasn't "about the sex" doesn't mean a thing. The vivid images of her tangled up having sex with another man haunts him whether she says it was just to keep his attention or she just wanted to screw her brains out with some random guy. For most men there is no difference in the effect it has on their self-esteem and the ultimate effect it has on efforts to reconcile. Some men cannot live with these images and have to walk away to save their sanity and self-respect.

 

It matters to me. In a strange screwed up way I'd rather she slept with him then fall in love with him.

[LostInM]

We talked the other day and we are going to do the poly. It's just going to be a week or so.

 

The last few days have been an eye opener. I run a store in the Columbia Mall where the shooting occurred and was locked down in the building for four hours. She was a hysterical mess. I honestly didn't think she lived me like that anymore.

 

Unfortunately my brain is just thinking we'll maybe she actually has someone on the side again and it's just guilt that caused the emotional outburst.

 

I can't seem to get out of my own way.

[miguelcervantes]

LostInM, you keep saying that it does not matter if she had sex with the other men or not - but in everything else you say (and apparently do), it does matter very much. So you are at odds with yourself and you need to resolve this first.

 

Next, she is offering to take a polygraph test and you don't want her to do this. You want to prolong your martyr status - this is what you need to resolve next. You seem to want to wallow in the self-pity and hurt. Let her take the polygraph for once and for all and put this to rest, one way or another. Stop prolonging your bittersweet pain.

 

Finally, you say she started out with trying to tell you something was wrong, asking you to go to counselling etc and you ignored it all. Then she went and pursued affairs (EA's according to her) outside of your marriage but then came back to you having not taken it physical (according to her). You now say that she is the same wonderful wife you first met. This is great and you should fix the above two issues if you do not want to lose this again.

 

So in summary, admit to yourself that whether she had sex or not IS bothering you, let her take the polygraph and stop feeling sorry for yourself.