Three Years On - Can't Forget

[LostInM]

Is she still denying she had a PA?]

 

She's swears to this day there was no sex of any kind. Again at this point I don't care. We had a lot of problems. The 19 months of therapy made our marriage stronger then it was before.

 

I've been lurking here for two years now before posting. I guess I'm looking for a way that worked for someone to stop the thoughts in my head spinning out of control. Some days I can stop them dead. Some days I can't. It's funny but I only feel a lack of self confidence with her.

 

I'm doing things now I never would have tried or done before. The way she is acting now is a dream come true. I actually feel bad sometimes because I think it's to much.

 

I've already tried two seperate doctors. Neither was helpful in helping me figure out how to stop the thoughts.

 

This is helping though, thank you to everyone posting.

[LostInM]

OK...so what do you DO NOW in light of this knowledge?

 

Punish her for the rest of her life?

 

Divorce?

 

Figure out how to deal with it and stay married?

 

She cheated...what do you do with that knowledge?

 

I decided three years to go try and work it out. Before counseling I was angry every day. Never physically abusive but definately verbally. I can't believe she stayed through that. When we started counseling I realized that I had to stop and decide. Divorce or work it out.

 

I choose work it out. That's why I don't care what happened. I don't want to know anymore then I do. It won't affect my decision. That decision was made already.

 

My problem is now I can't stop my brain from doubting her good actions now and thinking she's really truly sorry and won't do this again.

[Zenstudent]

She lied, she cheated. You thought you knew everything, and then the trickle-truth occurred.

 

You had a second D-day.

 

She may have had sex, but it does not matter, because she cheated and lied. Whatever, whether she did the deed or not, she cheated and lied.

 

So you feel like the last on her list, not even the backup plan. You can not believe her because you are back to your original D-day. So she is being nice now, but you can not be with her every second of the day. She could cheat now or still be cheating. Does not sound like she is, but what do I know.

 

So will you be happier if she is completely out of your life with a divorce? It sounds like now, that you are co-dependent with her, and that you do not have any self-esteem. It would be worse without her because your feeling of self-worth are tied up in her.

 

You feel like she chose others over you and you are worthless. Without her approval and her building you up, you would fall apart with your emotional state. So even separating from her makes you worry that you will be alone and rejected by all.

 

She did do this to you with her cheating and lying. You would not be able to take it if she cheats again.

 

So you either have to find a way not to have your self-worth tied to her. Some BS feel this way, but you have to change. You have to make it so you will be fine with her or fine without her. You should be in charge of your happiness.

 

Do things to make you feel better about yourself. Yes, exercise. Yes, counseling. Yes, medical drugs. Yes, doing the 180 to help you so that you are not so tied up with her for you to be happy.

 

You will not follow this, but doing the 180, doing things with guy friends, and separating your happiness from her is necessary for you to build your self-esteem. I am not saying that you need a separation, but is does help some BS.

 

I do hope you will put yourself in charge of your happiness. I have put myself in-charge of my happiness. My wife does have an impact on my happiness still, but I am trying to make it so that I will be fine with her or without her.

 

She may cheat again, as anyone you are with may cheat on you. It is a horrible thing to do to another that you supposedly love.

 

I wish you happiness in taking back your happiness.

I would just like to second this since it explains in detail what I was trying to say in my first post in the beginning. Your sense of happyness is tied to this woman.

 

I decided three years to go try and work it out. Before counseling I was angry every day. Never physically abusive but definately verbally. I can't believe she stayed through that. When we started counseling I realized that I had to stop and decide. Divorce or work it out.

 

I choose work it out. That's why I don't care what happened. I don't want to know anymore then I do. It won't affect my decision. That decision was made already.

 

My problem is now I can't stop my brain from doubting her good actions now and thinking she's really truly sorry and won't do this again.

I still believe that your focus should be on building your self worth. It is key to everything else.

 

It seems that you can't stop destructive thought processes. I think most of us betrayeds have been there at times, so I'll let you in on some of the techniques, besides building self esteem and worth, that I've used over the years.

 

You don't know if she'll cheat on you again:

1. You're already good at assuming things. Then assume she'll do it again, you may even have fair odds to be right. What will you do if you catch her cheating again? I believe you said in an earlier post that it would be over and you would leave immediatly? Then tell yourself that you won't be with her forever and ask: What will I do with the time I have left with her? What would you do if you knew for sure that she'll die from cancer in say 2 years from now? Leave her or make the best of each and every day? You have the power to decide.

2. If you leave her, what's the odds that you'll get a new partner who'll cheat on you? Somewhere between 30 and 60 percent depending on the statistics you read. You already know for certain, that your wife is capable of doing it, so you don't have to waste time and energy to figure that out - you would probably feel the need to do that in a new relationship. And maybe your wife has learned something from her experiences, that it's not worth it.

 

You can't stop doubting her good actions:

Focus on the present moment, the now. If you don't know how, read up on it. It's not complicated at all, but it takes a lot of practice.

Learn to see the beauty in little things, the really good stuff. Appreciate your life that is given to you. Appreciate the day, the sun, the rain, all living creatures - everything is a part of your life here, which you will only get to live once (probably, but let's not make a debate out of that). Acknowledge all these things and I'll bet that you will find it easier to appreciate the good things that your wife does. If it feels nice, it's nice. Enjoy the feeling of a hug, don't question the motive behind. Enjoy the sex, it's here now, you're both here now, embrace it.

 

Lost; I'm almost three years down the road too, and I know this **** still sucks. But if you're not prepared to leave, you really need to refocus and make the best of it. Turn it around, take your life back, believe that your wife is lucky that you're still with her - not the other way around. Know that you can change your mind and plans tomorrow, if you feel like it.

 

Take your life back, my friend, seize the day. I borrowed this from Steve Maraboli: “When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive, to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love, then make that day count!”

[LostInM]

Part of my struggle is I did seperate myself from her. I go out without her several times a month with a group of friends. I work out seperately and have a musical interest that I pursue seperately. I do make sure we have time together also but I do make sure I'm happy without her. I am and I can be.

 

It seems as things get better I get more suspicious and think something's going to happen. For some reason my brain has tied all of these good things with negative thoughts. I'm unsure of our relationship, not myself. I have no self confidence issues at work and when I'm talking to other people I don't feel bad about myself at all.

 

It's only my wife that I doubt anything about myself. I know I could date again, I know I could find someone, I had a couple women approach me when the word got out in the beggining we were separated.

 

For some reason I can't shake these feelings with my wife. I do believe she won't do this again in my heart. I beleive she is sorry. I just don't know in my brain if a set if circumstances would come up again that would cause her to backslide.

 

It's confusing I know. If we did seperate I would not get married again. I know the probability of not being cheated on again is greater with my wife. I think she learned "the lesson"......but I can't shake the doubt.

 

If I ever think there is anything going on I'm gone. I still check the phone bill occasionally, I still use the find my phone app to check her phone and see where she is (she gave me her password for itunes).

 

So why is brain doing this to me?!?!? I should be really happy.

[tired girl]

Why do you keep throwing words in there like should? This kind of thing takes awhile to heal. It just does. Do you have a set time frame in your head of when this should be all better?

[LostInM]

Why do you keep throwing words in there like should? This kind of thing takes awhile to heal. It just does. Do you have a set time frame in your head of when this should be all better?

 

I don't know. I didn't think I did but maybe that's it. Maybe I'm just rushing this. It's just a year ago I felt so good! I didn't even think about the affairs at all. My entire life was fantastic.

 

We had a great night last night! I cooked dinner, we sat on the couch under a blanket and watched a movie. We had a very nice night. We had amazing sex and I even had two orgasms! Something that doesn't happen that often anymore when we have sex.

 

All I could think about this morning was if my talking dirty to her was better then the other guy. I'm 45 and acting like an 18 year old. My stupid brain is screwing me up. I can't relax.

[LostInM]

I feel like your marriage should be over. She cheated on you plain and simple, she checked out a long time ago.

 

Before we did therapy I would have ageed with you 100%. I told the therapist when we started the marriage was over but we have two children and I had so much hate and anger towards my wife I agreed to go to at least let me cope with things and not drag the kids into the middle of it.

 

I was leaving her. Therapy was only supposed to be short term. We ended up going for 19 months abd I changed my mind. One thing I learned from therapy and these forums in the two years was a affair is not always the problem. We had issues that put us both in a situation that could have resulted in both of us cheating. She made a horrible choice but I understand it.

 

It doesn't make it right but now I realize I was mentally abusive and I ignored all of the signs. She even tried getting us into therapy for almost 6 months before the affair. She still made a horrible decision.

 

But I had a hand in it. I can't throw her and our marriage away just yet because of something I helped create.

 

She is sorry. She is remorseful. I need to find a way to stop the patterns in my head. Maybe I can't. Maybe we will end up divorced but I am going to try for a little longer before I leave. She's doing everything.

[beach]

What mental exercises do you do to distract your mind from thinking of those obsessive thoughts?

[Owl]

If you can't regain your trust in her...then your marriage will never recover, and you should just file for divorce.

 

That's not saying that there's something wrong with you, or with her.

 

Sometimes that devestation simply is so great that it can't be overcome.

 

How long do you want to keep trying? Perhaps that's the real question you should be working on answering...at what point do you throw in the towel?

[LostInM]

Have you tried any kind of counseling?

 

When you have been TT, and gaslighted for a long period of time, trust does not come easy. I know, has happened to me for 18 yrs with my H. So my triggers are deep and often. No trust. Well minimal. He knows this, and we deal with it. I have told him that I may never get to 100% with him and he needs to decide if he can deal with that.

 

Are you having more problems with the fact that you trigger or with fear that she will get tired of it?

 

With the fear she'll get tired of it.

[LostInM]

If you can't regain your trust in her...then your marriage will never recover, and you should just file for divorce.

 

That's not saying that there's something wrong with you, or with her.

 

Sometimes that devestation simply is so great that it can't be overcome.

 

How long do you want to keep trying? Perhaps that's the real question you should be working on answering...at what point do you throw in the towel?

 

I don't know how long. I just know I was there, it was over. We were in such a good place. I don't think she has it in her to go through three years if that again. I was a wreck but she never faltered. She did whatever I asked and didn't even question it.

[LostInM]

Why is it always direct to divorce?

 

At this point you are asking for something you cannot ever, no one can ever possibly ask for: "it won't happen again". You cannot ask that of the Virgin Mary.

You are asking for something EXTERNAL to happen TO you to solve your problem. This is not going to happen. Why don't you try a structured separation, not to get change from her, but to find out if you really want to be alone.

 

Aside from all the stuff being talked about in this thread, you are beyond obsessing, you are acting like someone ADDICTED to the affair. The lie detector would force you to end this addiction and that seems to frighten you. Why do you need to know what happened in the past if it is the future you cannot face?

 

What is eventually going to happen, if you do not get help for your condition, is that your wife is going to give up on you. Then the decision to stay or not, to move on or not, will no longer be yours.

 

Rather than only relying on IC, why dont you check out Mort Fertel on 7 ways to fix your marriage (What he calls Marriage Fitness, not Marriage Counselling). I found his approach to be incredibly positive, refreshing, common sensical, and I dare say, REWARDING. (Marriage Counseling – Free Marriage Help from Marriage Fitness with Mort Fertel)

 

Get yourself back on track man!

 

But that's just it. I don't want to know anything else about the past. I want to know how people were able to change the thought patterns in their head. I wish I never looked at that CC bill. Things were great. Now I feel like I'm just waiting for it to happen again.

 

I only doubt myself when it comes to sex and helping my wife. I've wrongly or not associated her having sex with a guy 15 years younger then me with a lack of ability on my part. I've attached her initial EA with to my lack of being able to help her with issues that stress her out. If she was looking for guidance and emotional stability then in my mind she would have chosen someone her age and not interested in her sexually but she choose the younger, good looking guy that only wanted sex. They didn't ev

Edited January 22, 2014 by LostInM

[tired girl]

Did you ask her if that was what she was looking for?

 

Couple of things wrong with the scenario you have in your head. One, you don't know for sure she had sex. Two, if she did, most often for women it is to keep the emotional side going, not because they really want sex.

 

You have said yourself that you know what part you played in the emotional side of things, but the bottom line is, she has to not need to step out of the marriage to get that again. That is not on you to prevent or fix. So you have to quit trying to nice her back into this marriage and know that you are going to be ok whether she cheats or not.

 

I cheated, and I can tell you, that even if your wife did have sex, there is no comparing going on. Being a wayward is a messed up place to be. She wants you. She is there trying to fix this. It is natural what is going through your mind and it will take time for that to calm down.

[LostInM]

Did you ask her if that was what she was looking for?

 

Couple of things wrong with the scenario you have in your head. One, you don't know for sure she had sex. Two, if she did, most often for women it is to keep the emotional side going, not because they really want sex.

 

You have said yourself that you know what part you played in the emotional side of things, but the bottom line is, she has to not need to step out of the marriage to get that again. That is not on you to prevent or fix. So you have to quit trying to nice her back into this marriage and know that you are going to be ok whether she cheats or not.

 

I cheated, and I can tell you, that even if your wife did have sex, there is no comparing going on. Being a wayward is a messed up place to be. She wants you. She is there trying to fix this. It is natural what is going through your mind and it will take time for that to calm down.

 

You are right. I just want to try and minimize it. I don't need to do this again over something I already did this for.

[tired girl]

It hasn't been quite a year though since he got new info, and that was what set him back so much.

 

Have you sat down and tried to figure out why that piece of info has triggered you so badly?

[LostInM]

At this point you cannot help her. You aren't able to take care of yourself, how are you going to assist her? It's been years. Okay, you are still in this. But it's been years. This is way past what is normal for obsessing.

 

Check out that website I mentioned. One of the greatest gifts of that guy's philosophy seems to be just what you need: Don't focus on the problem, focus on your happiness. Focus on what is good between you. Check him out. He has quick practical things you can do to start feeling good about yourself NOW.

 

I haven't obsessed like this for almost two years. I barely thought about the affairs for almost two years. Once we started therapy and I realized my part in it I started to look beyond the cheating. I don't understand why it's bothering me so much now. We resumed a fantastic sex life about 9 months after the initial Dday. I didn't think at all about it. I was the "man" again. I don't understand this.

[LostInM]

It hasn't been quite a year though since he got new info, and that was what set him back so much.

 

Have you sat down and tried to figure out why that piece of info has triggered you so badly?

 

Yes. It's making me crazy. I can't figure out why it's bothering me so much. I've always talked in front of the doctor and wife as if she did sleep with both guys. I've never not thought she slept with them. I was way past that. I don't understand.

[tired girl]

You were triggered by the receipt. Why? What bothered you so much about that?

[tired girl]

I think that is your key right there. Maybe somewhere inside of you, you held out hope that she didn't really do that. Seeing that receipt was verification that she had. At least to you.

 

If it is tormenting you so much, my take is, do the polygraph. You may be the type that really needs to know, yes or no.

[LostInM]

You were triggered by the receipt. Why? What bothered you so much about that?

 

I don't know. In the back of my mind I always knew that they had sex at his place or a motel. It wasn't a surprise we didn't even really have a fight. I was more upset she didn't bring it up in therapy. That's when she said she didn't mention it because nothing happened. She always said it was just flirting, no sex. I never believed her. I still don't.

[tired girl]

Is it triggering you because you feel she is lying?

[LostInM]

Is it triggering you because you feel she is lying?

 

I don't know. Maybe. I was past that though. It didn't matter anymore to me. I know she did things to keep him there. A young single guy is not going to hang around for conversation. She got what she needed and he got laid. I get it.

 

I don't know why this is bothering me.

[drifter777]

I don't know. Maybe. I was past that though. It didn't matter anymore to me. I know she did things to keep him there. A young single guy is not going to hang around for conversation. She got what she needed and he got laid. I get it.

 

I don't know why this is bothering me.

You say you were "past" this but, clearly, you aren't now and never were.

 

I can feel your contempt coming through when you say "she got what she needed..." so why can't you be honest with yourself and face the fact that you are furious with your wife for having sex with this guy. Her lying makes it worse because it's an insult to your intelligence. You need her to treat you like an adult and be honest with you about everything.

 

I too have been tortured by images of my WW having sex with another man. Its a horrible thing to live with. The only thing that has ever helped the frequency of these "mind attack's" has been hearing details about the sex from my wife. The real facts - no matter how disgusting - are still much milder than what my imagination conjured up. I still know she's holding back on the details, but I can tell that what she does tell me is the truth. I don't know why it helps me but it does. This is another reason for getting to the truth with your wife. The images in your mind of her and him are probably much dirtier and more disgusting than what actually happened.

[LostInM]

You say you were "past" this but, clearly, you aren't now and never were.

 

I can feel your contempt coming through when you say "she got what she needed..." so why can't you be honest with yourself and face the fact that you are furious with your wife for having sex with this guy. Her lying makes it worse because it's an insult to your intelligence. You need her to treat you like an adult and be honest with you about everything.

 

I too have been tortured by images of my WW having sex with another man. Its a horrible thing to live with. The only thing that has ever helped the frequency of these "mind attack's" has been hearing details about the sex from my wife. The real facts - no matter how disgusting - are still much milder than what my imagination conjured up. I still know she's holding back on the details, but I can tell that what she does tell me is the truth. I don't know why it helps me but it does. This is another reason for getting to the truth with your wife. The images in your mind of her and him are probably much dirtier and more disgusting than what actually happened.

 

This make sense to me but I've always thought she had sex so I went into therapy that way and I was very angry. I said very hurtful things about her having sex. Even with her sobbing on the floor swearing she didn't have sex with anyone I was a maniac and belittled her. Once we started therapy those feelings went away. I always referred to her as having slept with him and she would always correct me. Maybe deep down inside I was holding onto a small piece of something that would prove she didn't. I don't think I was.

 

All I know was my marriage was fantastic after therapy. I didn't think at all about the other guys anymore.

 

I can't figure out why this is flaring things up so badly.

[beach]

This make sense to me but I've always thought she had sex so I went into therapy that way and I was very angry. I said very hurtful things about her having sex. Even with her sobbing on the floor swearing she didn't have sex with anyone I was a maniac and belittled her. Once we started therapy those feelings went away. I always referred to her as having slept with him and she would always correct me. Maybe deep down inside I was holding onto a small piece of something that would prove she didn't. I don't think I was.

 

All I know was my marriage was fantastic after therapy. I didn't think at all about the other guys anymore.

 

I can't figure out why this is flaring things up so badly.

 

Have her take a polygraph.

 

IF it comes out that she never actually had sex - you may be able to put this to rest.

 

If she did - then you know she's the perfect liar for the past several years.

 

I think you need to find out which one she is.