A Wife's Sexual History

[Ninjainpajamas]

You're not ready to marry this girl...period.

 

The "reality" is she's not the kind of girl you're looking for or expected to end up with, you wanted someone who shared similar values and principals on paper, you're not ever going to relate and understand...and this girl does not meet the expectation, she doesn't feel the same way as you do, you're probably surprised you fell for her in the first place but that's partly attributed to your lack of romantic experience...she's got a past that concerns you and makes you feel like "what makes me special"...

 

Sorry I'll be honest..nothing makes you "special" other than the fact you're sticking around and treating her well and showing a potential for commitment, what else do you think?...you think she wouldn't/couldn't have married these other men if they wanted that level of commitment? what do you think women are generally looking for? sure they're open to "fun" but she had her fun with Mr. Vacation, she wasn't looking for fun with her prior relationships, she was looking for commitment, now YOU are THAT GUY...now she's ready for something "serious" because a guy like you is going to operate in a more serious mode because you know nothing else, you help her see that fantasy becoming a reality...you think this is all about you and your love together, but how well do you even know her? how long have you even been together?

 

She doesn't have a horrible history or sound like a horrible person by any means but I don't think you're ready or she's the exact one for you...it feels like you're just getting caught up in the whirlwind of all of it and kind of being swept away and trying to convince yourself that this is what you want and the right thing to do but you're finding things wrong to pull yourself away because maybe she isn't what you really want...you're not certain or decided within yourself what is best...or you have but you can't pull the trigger and stick to your guns because now you fear losing her and wonder if you can do any better.

 

Yes, you seem like the typical "beta" provider/knight in shining armor type, because you've got values, because you've got "respect" for women..virtues some men have hardly any shred of...and that's why they would look down on you, for having to pay more for something they got cheap...it doesn't mean you're the "right" guy, it doesn't mean all those people were just a rose pedaled path into your arms or some ridiculous nonsensical BS like that, that's not a reality it's just something that makes people sleep better at night and feel special, everyone wants to feel special this and that..it just means you are THE GUY, who chose to wed thy, you decided to take the relationship to that level with this girl because YOU desired to make that choice with her, all she's doing like many others is simply waiting for a guy like you want to want it too...what you make of it is your own from that point on...that's your happiness or unhappiness, that's the reality.

 

You've got to figure out what you want...she is just simply there, waiting on your call, what say you? that's life, making hard decisions, challenging views, altering perceptions, trying to find a balance and deal with uncertainties.

 

In my reality, you've still got a lot of growing up to do and need more experience...your values are dated with most people in this generation. But if they are your true values, then stick to them...or you may resent yourself and her as well.

[MBrewey]

Oh and OP the pregnant thing is crap now thanks to modern technology. Yeah a woman can get knocked up. But once she does the choice is all hers. And if she chooses to keep the child... Thanks to DNa testing daddy has to pay. So while she has the choice to be a parent or not... Should she choose to be a parent... Daddy may have to pay... Or go to jail. So in truth... Nowadays men risk more spreading their seed around them women!

 

That is true very true Fluttershy. I think modern technology protects very well against pregnancy. While technology has changed very quickly since the neolithic revolution, humans have nearly remained the same.

 

There are still the same eugenic and emotional impulses within people. We are repulsed by the idea of incest, for example, despite there being technology to prevent pregnancy. It is an emotional reaction which comes from an ancient biological reality.

 

Similarly, people tend to not like other people having sex with their partners. Infidelity, for example, invokes a strong negative response in most people. Why? Is their not birth control to prevent harm from being done? I would say there is an biological basis, perhaps an irrational obsolete one, for why people don't like unfaithful spouses.

 

Virginity and promiscuity, similar both elicit emotional response, even if they are perhaps obsolete or irrational within civilization. The words of min you quoted were my explanation.

 

On the whole, most civilizations--including the Abrahamic religions--have been sexually negative (Comming of age in Samoa excluded). Why on earth would anyone care about that? I would hazard to guess that there is an ancient fear of false paternity which is obsolete and irrational thanks to birth control.

 

Eugenic impulses, though irrational because of birth control, do have a material effect. Consider the emotional damage done by incest, pedophilia, or rape despite there being no physiological risk. Is there likewise emotional damage that can be done by consensual sex between adults, even though it is legal and without victim? I think so. I am a man of science, so I look at the research to try and divine my answers.

 

I hope I explained that paragraph well. You picking up what I am putting down?

 

Also, I can't figure out why a couple of the posters here think I admire "pick up artists". I think my phrasing was a little too rhetorical. I think that is why Lucy thinks I was saying mean things about my lovely girlfriend as well. As I explained earlier, they seem like a remnant of the obsolete past. The admirable morals of commitment are required to survive within modern civilization. A man who attracts girls but cannot keep one is fulfilling an ancient dream while functionally being impotent.

[janedoe67]

Thank God you found out what a piece of **** cunt I am...now you don't have to ever look in a mirror. Same for the porn using hypocrite.

[janedoe67]

So alpha males can have sex with girls that aren't virgins, as long as they dump them, but if they marry a girl that was not a virgin they become a beta male and subservient to the alphas.

 

Oy, my head hurts. Are you part of a dog pack? Are your girlfriend's exes going to come back and pee on your fire hydrant? What in the world is this?

 

Normal humans usually have sex with more than one person before finding the right partner, it's not an earthshatteringly big deal. If you can't treat your girlfriend like a normal human woman and instead are worrying about how she's the omega of the dog pack or whatever, I suggest you break up and let her find a normal human man to marry.

Let me guess....you had an affair too...or were you a porn star?

[MBrewey]

Thank God you found out what a piece of **** cunt I am...now you don't have to ever look in a mirror. Same for the porn using hypocrite.

 

Jane, using porn and being a porn star may be equally immoral or moral. Maybe. The effect they have on your life is very different though. Is that unfair? Certainly. That is just the world we live in though.

 

Is it fair that a teacher gets paid less than a professional athlete? No, certainly not. It is not because teachers have less valuable souls or what they do is not as important. However, it is just impossible to pay teachers what athletes are paid.

 

I'm a military officer. There are people trying to kill me and there are people who salute me. Is it because they are better or worse than me? No way, it is just the way crap turns out.

 

You trip on the sidewalk, you get a bruise. You trip on a high rise you are dead. It is not fair.

 

You comfort your woes with journal writing, you are fine. You comfort them with alcohol, you could ruin your life.

 

You mess up by looking at porn, you can recover. You mess up by doing porn, you have a much bigger problem on your hands. It is not fair. It is not theraputic.

 

Just gotta keep going with all your injuries right?

Edited January 23, 2014 by MBrewey

[janedoe67]

Just gotta keep going with all your injuries right?

 

Aw, but it's so much more fun for everyone else if you stay down...it's easier to kick you that way.....

[janedoe67]

I think you are a perfect example to everyone here about why the "past is the past" mentality just does not work, since it seems quite clear to me you let your own past affect how you react to certain things in the present.

 

You're right. I do. I do it wherever I know no one else will ever leave my past in the past either. Funnily enough, I am nothing like this with my h or anyone who actually has known me for more than just the words I type.

[janedoe67]

Maybe, but it still goes to show our pasts are not things that will never have any impact on our lives at all. This does not just apply to past when it comes to love/sex, but anything.

 

Very true. The OP's gf's poor way of seeking out affection or validation of whatever is affecting her R with him right now. He is hurting because he wants to be with a woman who didn't ever see herself that way. She is hurting because she knows how he sees her.

 

Every post on this forum is made by a person. A human. Someone's spouse or sister or brother or parent or child. So when we call people out rudely, judge them harshly, call them "pathetic" (like I did to you and I am sorry)...or look up their old threads and say "figures," we are not just puffing out our chests and having our "say"....we are affecting a PERSON.

 

The question is, are only some of those persons worth caring about? I the OP more worth caring about than his GF because she had a past and he doesn't?

[lucy_in_disguise]

OP, I think what you are failing to recognize, is that all the pop-evolution explanations of human sexuality that you so believe in, are just, like, your opinion, man.

 

Unfortunately for you, your opinion is messing with your happiness.

[Fluttershy]

Maybe, but it still goes to show our pasts are not things that will never have any impact on our lives at all. This does not just apply to past when it comes to love/sex, but anything.

 

So before you knew your wife's secret how did her porn inpact yor marriage?

[Fluttershy]

It was having an impact on our marriage the entire time whether I knew it or not. That is what happens when you keep such big secrets from people. That is the worst part, this secret was every day hurting us without me even knowing about it. That in a nutshell is why it is bad to lie to your spouse, whether it is a direct lie or one of omission it just shouldn't happen. I am just glad me and her will be able to get past this.

 

But it really didn't as you said you had a "great" marriage... Probably better than most. The past porn didn't make your wife unfaithful, a flirt, or not connect with you sexually. You can rewrite your history all you want now but it didn't change the truth. Past actions don't always have an inpact on present choices and feelings. Sometimes they can if you are hung up on them. Having mutiple partners before marriage doesn't mean you won't settle down with one after and be happy. Stealing as a teenager doesn't mean you will continue to steal into adulthood or think stealin isn't a big deal. In your case the discovery of your wife hiding this from you (not the lying to you for years which by the way isn't a helpful way to view it if you want to work on your marriage. Lying is a false statment.) In fact her porn (past behaviour) has had 0 affect on her choices now. It was her current behaviour of not Sharing her deepest darkest secret with you that was a part of her current behavioir.

 

This girl's past behaviour is well, tame. Very tame.

 

Janes's past behaviour is only bein thrown at her by people who don't like her opinion.

 

I myself am a BW. I have no past deeds to throw at me so I get called othe r names or accused of being a feminist when to me this has 0 to do with gender and everything to do with a guy who is holding women to a hugher standard than himself.

 

He is free to do so... But he will keep running into a lot of problems. A lot.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You really don't have to think the same way and you don't have to hate me/us for thinking that. Maybe it is just rough on you because of the crap you see on movies/tv and you crave uniformity. She is not western: would you hate everyone from her culture for being different? To be honest, I have very little respect for your displays of closed-mindedness and quick emotions.

 

Are you sure that you will be Ok with one sexual partner in your lifetime? I know your brain says yes, but what does that animal reptile part of you feel?

 

Non western cultures have different views on sexuality. You should factor this into her actions.

 

Also if you are European and you fiancé is Asian... Expect some haters.

 

Best Wishes for your upcoming engagement.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Arrogance is almost as funny as puns...

I was the pure as driven snow 25 plus year old virgin I married (you know, the kind of woman you seek). Even then, I would not have touched a misogynistic, arrogant, double-standard laden hypocrite who assumes people are "threatened" rather than considering he might be wrong with a ten foot pole.

The problem for you is that you do not deserve the type of woman you seek. You didn't before but guess what - now that YOU chose to become a "hop in the sack" for one night kind of guy, you are EXACTLY like your GF whom you see as beneath you.

Yeah yeah...direct him to my thread. Doesn't change who I was when I married.

There are no guarantees Messiah.

A little humility might make you more attractive.

 

Look, you are the same person today as you were at 25... Just older and hopefully wiser.

 

You clearly are struggling with something missing in your marriage. Maybe that is your fault maybe not. I don't think its typical. I married at 19 A woman who had slept with more men than I could count. I figured she must really like sex... Lucky me. Wrong... She refused to touch me once married. We divorced three years later.

 

Whatever you are going through, people have the right to judge or not judge, to choose what kind of person to have a relationship. I dont think it appropriate to spit so much bile at him. I'm sure you know how it feels. Have more empathy.

[janedoe67]

I dont think it appropriate to spit so much bile at him.

 

You are right. It isn't appropriate to spit bile at someone I have never met who has nothing to do with my situation. It's classless and sad.

[Got it]

OP I haven't read the replies but here is some harsh reality. Society has changed. People's morals/opinions when it comes to sex has changed. These days the average amount of partners for a 30 year old female in the western world is 10. Now it's quite common in a relationship for a woman to have more sexual partners then a man.

 

Now there are a lot of different reasons women's attitude to sex has changed. Society has become more liberal. More equal. Religion has less of an impact then it used to have. Where sex outside of marriage was considered 'dirty' for many in the previous generations now women are not afraid to be more bold in their choices. They are starting to really enjoy sex, even if that is with a stranger.

 

I am old fashioned. I get no satisfaction of being with someone I don't know. I have no interest in being with someone because we had three awesome dates. The thing is though I am in the minority these days. It doesn't make me right or wrong. It comes down to personal choices. I feel my choices when it comes to sex make me stand out from the crowd, but that is strictly my own opinion.

 

You spoke about peace above but only you can achieve this. Say if you break up over this, you need to be prepared for any future girl having alot more partners then your girl has. It is vital you do get peace, because every person deserves their partner to LOVE them 100%. ALL of them. Anything less then you are not being fair to both of you. You have criticised her and defended her all in the space of a few days. You cannot consider marrying her unless the ONLY thoughts in your head are positive..

 

For a few people who still have a moralistic view about sex it's hard to watch the world change so fast. You either stay as you are and probably end up single (because trust me there are VERY few virgins out there) or you try evolve as a person and accept the way things are today. Understand why women are more open and free with sex. You also need to work on those insecurities of yours and that can be a long and hard process.

 

She seems like a great girl. My advice is let this go and grow emotionally as a person. Learn to open new doors, to think outside the box and embrace opinions that are different to yours. Losing something precious over something like this can haunt a person for the rest of their lives. Especially when the grass is DEFINITELY not greener...

 

One's man's trash is another mans treasure..Just treasure her and leave the past behind..As I mentioned above I wouldn't propose to her now by the way. That's like putting a plaster over a gaping wound and shows enormous emotional immaturity. You need to work all this out in your head and you have a lot of emotional growing to do..That takes time and effort.

 

If you propose now you are doomed to fail..and you don't even know why..

 

Actually the number one reason is the Pill and thusly the ability to control procreation. Number one reason why women have more sexual partners.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You are right. It isn't appropriate to spit bile at someone I have never met who has nothing to do with my situation. It's classless and sad.

 

I don't think you are a classless or sad person. I think it's very likely you let yourself be defined by your situation. Everyone has both bad and good in us and sometimes we let the bad win, especially if there are people and things in our life that make us weak. Bieng married to someone who you lack true passion for will make you weak. That is a situation and you should not allow it to define who you are... guilt can create a down spiral that is hard to escape.

 

Don't get caught up thinking you are the only one with flaws, and don't start believing that you are not worthy of love. When you have a poor vision of yourself it becomes easy for the users of this world to take advantage.

 

Maybe I'm just rambling here, but I want to say that I wish you the best and I think you are a good person.

[janedoe67]

Don't get caught up thinking you are the only one with flaws

 

I'm pretty sure that my problem (in some people's eyes) is that I KNOW I am not the only one with flaws

[Eggplant]

If I understand you correctly, OP, one major important component of a wife or partner for you is the public social trophy that that person brings to you. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems that what really bothers you about the past sex is not even the sex itself as much as the lesser prize in the eyes of others.

 

Suppose, for one moment, you had your perfect trophy virgin babe that made all the macho guys in the locker room extremely jealous. All the sudden they respected you, and considered you one of them. You now are crowned an alpha. (This actually never happens, because guys will never concede power). Now you go home, and put on your pjs, and go to bed, and live the rest of your life. The locker room guys aren't even there. They already forgot about you. The curtain has closed. (They're taking off their stage makeup too).

 

Meanwhile, the woman you choose is the person you are left to deal with day in and day out. The children who love you and depend on you, they are there in your life, considering you the most alpha role model dad in the whole world. Where are those locker room guys from the 10th grade? Are you a different man than you would have been had you not gotten their approval?

 

Are you actually intrinsically any more alpha? Does a woman really have the power to change your intrinsic worth?

 

Suppose you break up with this girl with a past. Then suppose the macho-est biggest king of alpha guys marries her. Suppose all the alpha guys say she's hot. Does that make her more marriageable -- that others want her?

Or even another case: suppose all the alpha guys approached you and all conceded that you were the most alpha, and they were all jealous of you, and you win, no matter whom you marry. Then, would that change your assessment of a marriage partner?

 

I have some trouble understanding, as I don't and never have cared about social rank. At the end of the day, it's me and my partner alone, and I care what he thinks first and foremost. I have no hesitation dating a guy from a lower social class. If it happens fewer other women want him because he doesn't earn as much or something, perfect! What I want is emotional. But if you personally want a plaque in a partner first and foremost, then your real love and relationship isn't that woman at all. You're really kind of dating the alpha guys in a way.

[Anne Boleyn]

I'm a younger guy trying to figure out if I want to marry my girlfriend or not. I'd like to hear what kind of a future I'm looking at and how already married people cope.

 

I am in my mid-twenties and just had to move across the country for my job. In a few months my girlfriend will finish school and move in with me. She loves me to death and, along with my mom and both our families, asks quite frequently why I have not proposed yet.

 

She is the first and only girl I've ever been physically intimate with. I always planned on waiting until I was married to have sex. For about the five years of my life that I was seriously dating I pretty much only ran into virgins who didn't like me or people's who's sexual history I just didn't want to deal with. I eventually decided that if I just started having sex I'd stop caring so much about other people's history. So I did.

 

Had a one night stand with this girl I didn't know very well. Thought I was just going to leave it at that, like I always see in movies or hear from friends. I couldn't do that though, kept going back for more, and fell in love. I guess I have the genes of a Beta-provider.

 

Of course, her story is a little more colorful than mine, though only a little. For example, there were still condoms in her room, from the foreign tourist she entertained a couple days prior, when I gave my precious virtue (hah) away. She is younger than myself and contained her sexual history to one year, two boyfriends, and the internet-booty call with the tourist. And me.

 

 

So let me make sure I'm getting this real clear...

 

 

You decided virginity was important to you, so you decided to stay a virgin, that is, until it became kind of a hassle... Then you decided to go bed down girls as a way to shell shock your system into the acceptance of what you perceive as negative sexual promiscuity by those around you. So you earmark a girl who's younger than you who you deem as sexually available and you go about using her for sex... Though through what you see as a flaw in your character, you fell in love with the girl.

 

 

Now here you are in a relationship with a girl who you're having a hard time respecting because people like you used her for sex and you ask yourself how she could respect herself so little, despite the fact that if it weren't for above character flaw, you'd have used her and dumped her too. You say you love her, but you're having some inner struggle in trying to identify how you can "take on" a girl such as her in a relationship or marriage if there are two ex-boyfriends and a tourist out there who may be able to laugh at you in the locker room over your relationship with her and her "used goods" status. So in the meantime, in spite of your best interests, you love the girl so much you need to come here to get a preening from other men that taking on a girl with such a lesser moral status than you will not damage your reputation...

 

 

Yeah, that seems about the whole of it.

 

Yet, it still hurts me quite frequently and deeply. Which makes me wonder how you normal humans get along. How do you still have pride/honor when other people have had been intimate with your wife or husband? I feel like I am not even near the same mindset as most people. Does everyone now a days just walk around with repressed jealousy? Do you twist it into some cuckold fantasy (as I have read about on these forums)? How do you deal with this pretty much universal fact that every seems to share their significant other with many other people?

Well, I suppose I qualify as a "normal human," which means I'm allowed to answer... Though I am curious that if the rest of us are "normal humans," what status/self-descriptor do you apply to yourself... But as a woman who's husband had sexual history prior to my knowing him, the simple truth is that when you love someone, truly and freely give unto them and receive from them, things like sexual past don't matter so much. In love, you forgive a multitude of "sins.". It's not about fantasizing about him being with somebody else gets me off or that I'm secretly jealous I wasn't the first. It's just that it doesn't matter.

 

 

As for the sense of pride... Being able to say I love him and he loves me is where I draw my pride. And if it has to be about sex, then the source of pride in that would be that while I'm not his first, I do have the honor of being his last. And oh how much longer does being his last go on than the poor girl who was his first.

 

It seems like, to me, marriage would be imprudently out of the question until I have more peace.

 

Marrying this girl should be distinctly off your radar at the moment. You act in how you talk of her and your relationship like you were slumming and then had the misfortune to fall in love with her. Now you're asking how to love her in spite of yourself and in spite of who she is, not because of who she is and because you have given yourself to her freely in love.

 

It just sucks thinking about how valueless she treated her body.

 

 

You mean of how valueless people such as yourself treated her body. 50% of her partners were people she was in a relationship with. 25% of them had a one-night stand though she was attracted to them. 25% of them (you) intended on using her for sex for personal reasons, then dumping her.

 

 

Maybe the one night stand is a big part of my problem. This guy had a girlfriend whom he was cheating on, was overweight and not particularly good looking, but she obsessed over him for a little while after he left.

It may be a one-night stand, but she was clearly interested in pursuing a relationship...

 

 

At that time, she wore weird fitting clothes and would never try makeup. Now, with a little effort, she looks like a fox to me.

I do hope this isn't you talking about what she must do to appease you in looking like "a fox."

 

 

For all three guys, it's like they thought she wasn't good enough and she agreed with them.

But two she was dating, one she wanted to date, and the only one who didn't want anything from her but sex was you, and now you begrudgingly speak of a relationship with her despite your view of her being damaged goods.

 

 

But I think she is good enough, she is gorgeous to my eyes.

And what a dream for all women to hear from a man who's debating marrying her that he views her to be "good enough" and gorgeous, as long as she puts forth some effort.

 

 

I can't stand the idea of them snickering at me, the guy who would actually have some commitment for her.

 

I truly and deeply love my husband, and if being with him meant that 100 people a day laughed at me to my face for it, I'd gladly withstand it. Because love isn't about what other people think of you, it's about what you think of each other. If this is really a concern of yours, you shouldn't be considering marriage. And you should be considering here that the issue isn't that she has sexual history, it's that you've placed yourself on a pedestal and view her distinctly beneath you, despite the fact that if it your character defect in being a "beta man" didn't force you into some kind of attachment despite a conscious effort to avoid all such ties, you too would have used her for sex and moved on... And used other women for sex and moved on... So as to condition yourself to somehow expect less from people.

 

 

I'm sorry, I find this all very flawed.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Anne Boleyn

[janedoe67]

Right. Not sure what to do with this one...

 

I mean if you aren't willing to flog the woman HE hopped in bed with for hopping in bed with men too fast you MUST be a ho...any pure woman would know how "damaged" she is

 

That was sarcasm. But like I said, he can be as picky as he wants...and I can keep praying that my own daughter stays away from self-righteous, arrogant, misogynistic pricks.

 

Oh, and that she stays a virgin until she gets married, never does porn, and never looks at another man.

[Anne Boleyn]

I mean if you aren't willing to flog the woman HE hopped in bed with for hopping in bed with men too fast you MUST be a ho...any pure woman would know how "damaged" she is

 

That was sarcasm. But like I said, he can be as picky as he wants...and I can keep praying that my own daughter stays away from self-righteous, arrogant, misogynistic pricks.

 

Oh, and that she stays a virgin until she gets married, never does porn, and never looks at another man.

 

 

Gotcha. Sorry, still new to people here and the delivery they have.

[VeronicaRoss]

The question I got from your post was: since so many people sleep with more than one person before they get married is everyone just living with insane amounts of jealousy they're hiding?

 

Jealousy might be there, but if you're with someone good you're too busy living life and it stays far in the background.

 

Sleeping with others before you marry does one thing, it de-mystifies sex. You know that just because you had sex with someone it doesn't mean that the love or even attraction lasted. You tried and it ended. And the endings are often painful.

 

I'm thankful I had sex with the men I did. For my husband's past too. Because it makes us both really grateful for each other. His girlfriend before me is one of my favorite people. Trust me I'm no saint and get jealous. The soul mate girlfriend he had (that treated him badly) I told him I didn't want him contacting her because he still has feelings for her and it's just dangerous. There are men in my past I have to avoid too. What makes us good partners is we don't play with each other's feelings.

 

What's also the truth is it's super stupid to talk about your past much. Because the jealousy is definitely there if someone wants to poke at it. Anyone who stirs those embers to either enjoy a jealous reaction or out of insecurity is a really poor choice of partner. They haven't learned how to respect others yet.

[Fluttershy]

Well, I think if someone wants to know about your past that is up to them. Whether or not it is stupid, to some it is..to some it is not. We all have the right to choose who we want to be with.

 

And if someone wants to disclose a part of their past that is up to them. Their choice and their descision.

[Art_Critic]

And if someone wants to disclose a part of their past that is up to them. Their choice and their descision.

 

I think you are right.. some things are just not someone else's business just because they are dating or getting married or even married, people need their own space inside a relationship, if they tell everything then it is their own desire to do so but for the other person say to them that they must tell everything is just not healthy or even right.. down right controlling IMO....

[rewl]

I wouldn't even think about a relationship with a girl of that sexual history, no way, I'd lose respect for them instantly, and not just romantically either.