Long time friend -- did I goof or did she?

[SleeplessIn]

G and I met in college, roughly 45 years ago (!) and were roommates. We formed a super friendship during that one year. The next year, she decided no more college and instead went to work for one of the airlines -- she was from a small town and dreamed of travel. I supported her plan 100%. On my part, I got married and she supported my decision 100%.

 

Over the years, she continued with this or that airline, living in places like Miami, FL and San Francisco. These locations were hundreds/thousands of miles away from where I was living. She was married once, briefly. Meanwhile, I had a child and a few years later adopted a second child. We wrote to each other a lot and talked on the phone several times a year. I enjoyed her travel adventures and was excited for her when she began to invest in real estate and do well.

 

Every few years, she would come to visit with me -- this was no object to her because she had free flights with the airlines she worked for. Also she was not tied down with any sort of family obligations. She always wanted me to come to visit HER, and I always wanted to, but finances and the responsibilities of family prevented me. Plus, the business arenas in which I worked didn't allow for more than just basic days off during a year and when I had some vacation I needed to spend time with my children, could not just take off and be gone to visit a friend over Christmas.

 

A few years ago, my husband and I made a major move so that we could take care of my elderly parents. We are living close enough to my friend G that I could conceivably go and visit her for a few days at a relatively low travel cost, and I had hoped to be able to do that, but I'm now looking after my very elderly Mother virtually 24/7 and have been for the last 4 or so years. No one else in my family can take off enough time from their jobs to come and take over for me with Mother so that I can go anywhere for more than a weekend. And a weekend would not be long enough for me to travel to visit my friend G and actually have any time with her.

 

Last year, G announced that she is thinking of moving out of the USA to live her retirement years in a foreign country where her dollars will go farther. I understood her reasons, but expressed being really sad at the thought that if she does that, then I will "never" be able to go and visit her. Her response was that she had given up on me ever visiting, that she felt so hurt for so many years that I never "made it happen", that she just had to stop even caring about that anymore. In short, with her words, she made it just MY FAULT that I have never been able to visit. I thought, "Oh, she can't mean that", and I gently pointed out how different our lives have been, hers where she is only responsible to herself, her money and time are all hers to decide about and so forth, while I am responsible to other people on a daily basis and my money and time are not just my own to choose what to do with. It was never that I didn't want to -- there are a lot of things in my life that I would have loved to do but could not manage them due to constraints of finances or responsibilities.

 

That did not cut it one bit with her, and she told me that frankly she no longer WANTS me to come and visit even if I could.

 

I tried again to reason with her point of view and got nowhere. At that point, I got angry, because she was acting like all these years I have deliberately put everything else ahead of her, hurting her and not caring. That's never ever been the case, but what I saw in the conversation we were having, was that she WAS deliberately striking out and trying to hurt ME by basically saying she doesn't care if she ever sees me again.

 

That was the end of it, this was a year ago and we have not been in touch since.

 

Even though I was never able to visit, I was always very supportive of things she was doing, I spent a lot of time doing research for her on business matters she needed information on (and she's not good at research) -- and spent money in some cases to do that -- and I was always glad to help. I didn't ever ask her to do anything like that for me.

 

Now I'm wondering if we were ever really friends ... how long has she been feeling "so hurt" and "devastated" that I hadn't traveled to visit her? She said "for years" but not how many.

 

Did I do something wrong here? It seems to me that her expectations of me have been out of line. She has known all along, on practically a monthly basis, what my life has consisted of -- and vice versa. I don't know if we will ever even speak again, but the situation still upsets me.

[whichwayisup]

She never did get it from the get go- that you were married with kids. That comes first and obviously you traveling to visit her was going to be impossible.

 

How much was she a 'real' friend to you over the years? Did she ever meet your kids/husband? she has no obligations, no kids, no family so she really doesn't understand that family comes first.

 

This is her loss and if she felt that upset in the past, she should have discussed it with you years ago since she was hurt or angry.

 

It's tough to lose someone you've known for so many years, but it seems she really wasn't a big part of your daily life (maybe calls, emails etc) but not in the flesh.

 

Try to make peace with this so it doesn't eat you up. Forgive her for her not 'getting it' and understanding that you couldn't up and leave due to obligations. She is who she is, and you are who you are. People grow apart and sadly she doesn't feel that the friendship isn't worth saving. I know it hurts but it's out of your hands.

[Lokie]

I'm afraid I am not going to give you the answer you want to hear. Yes, you did something wrong. I believe her expectations are warranted. Friendships require both people to make equal efforts. Spending time together is so important to keep relationships alive. You did not make the effort on your part to visit her on her turf and she is hurt. I don't blame her.

[lollipopspot]

G and I met in college, roughly 45 years ago (!) and were roommates.

 

It would have been better if this had been a serious discussion earlier, and from what you write, it may have been, when you say that she always wanted you to visit her.

 

I get your predicament, because I'm not a traveler either. But I do have to say, 45 years is an awfully long time to never go to see someone, and always have them come to you. It does kind of give the message that she isn't super important to you. Family may be "first," but that doesn't mean that friends should always be an afterthought.

 

When she got married, was there a ceremony and were you invited?

[CC12]

I think you both handled it poorly.

 

Your friend had good reason to feel hurt. You seem to kind of minimize the effort she put in to visit you, saying basically, "It was no big deal for her because she flies for free and has disposable income and nothing tying her down." But the fact is that she could have done anything with her vacations, gone anywhere, but she chose to spend her time, effort, and money visiting you. It was clearly important to her to make the effort see you in person once in a while.

 

How many times did she invite you to visit her over the years and how many times did you have to say no? It was probably a lot. That gets old, you know? Not many friendships would survive one person always doing the inviting and the other always declining.

 

And actually, on that note, when it came up did you ever just say, "No. I just can't. I'm sorry." Or did you let her get her hopes up by doing the "I would totally love to! Soon!" thing? Because the latter is quite a bit more hurtful than just saying no.

 

So when she said she was moving to another country and you were all, "Oh, I'll never be able to visit you there! So sad!", that was the wrong thing to say to someone you've never visited even once in the last few decades. I can completely see how your comment set her off.

 

At that point, I got angry, because she was acting like all these years I have deliberately put everything else ahead of her, hurting her and not caring.

I would guess that she wasn't upset about you deliberately putting everything ahead of her, but about you never deliberately making it a point to go see her. I know you were stuck where you were for a lot of years, but if it were important to you, you would have visited her. You would have made it happen. You would have. Period. Especially in the last few years since you've lived closer.

 

Now I'm wondering if we were ever really friends

That's rather unfair of you to question this. Of course she was really your friend. You had known each other for 45 years, spoke on the phone often, and she visited you multiple times.

[SleeplessIn]

I'm afraid I am not going to give you the answer you want to hear. Yes, you did something wrong. I believe her expectations are warranted. Friendships require both people to make equal efforts. Spending time together is so important to keep relationships alive. You did not make the effort on your part to visit her on her turf and she is hurt. I don't blame her.

 

She visited me 3 times over the 45 years, for a total of 6 days. During most of that time, I lived only a couple of hours' drive from her hometown where she had family whom she also visited -- fly east, spend 2 days with me and however long with her family, fly back to her home. But remember, her flights cost her nothing and she was not working for or paying the bills for a family. My money was not "just mine". When it came to our phone calls and letters, later email, I always kept up my end, but the trips were just out of my league.

[lollipopspot]

I understood her reasons, but expressed being really sad at the thought that if she does that, then I will "never" be able to go and visit her. Her response was that she had given up on me ever visiting, that she felt so hurt for so many years that I never "made it happen", that she just had to stop even caring about that anymore. In short, with her words, she made it just MY FAULT that I have never been able to visit. I thought, "Oh, she can't mean that", and I gently pointed out how different our lives have been, hers where she is only responsible to herself, her money and time are all hers to decide about and so forth, while I am responsible to other people on a daily basis and my money and time are not just my own to choose what to do with.

 

You know, if after 45 years you couldn't figure out how to get to her, I think she's right in believing that was "never" going to happen anyway. 45 years! I mean, you're both about 63 now, right? There will always be a reason that makes it difficult. As you're getting older...age, illness, finances, something. Not saying that it isn't difficult, but I think it just wasn't ever going to happen, if you're honest with yourself.

 

I think that the latter part of this discussion may have been damaging too. I don't know, because I don't know exactly how you said it or her reality and how she feels, but is it really true that she has no responsibilities towards anyone other than herself? I'm single now, and I don't view my life that way. I have plenty of responsibilities with my money and time. It may have just sounded like excuses her to her, or even diminishing her responsibilities and commitments, but I don't know.

[SleeplessIn]

It would have been better if this had been a serious discussion earlier, and from what you write, it may have been, when you say that she always wanted you to visit her.

 

I get your predicament, because I'm not a traveler either. But I do have to say, 45 years is an awfully long time to never go to see someone, and always have them come to you. It does kind of give the message that she isn't super important to you. Family may be "first," but that doesn't mean that friends should always be an afterthought.

 

When she got married, was there a ceremony and were you invited?

 

No, there may have been a ceremony but I wasn't invited and didn't know until afterward that she had gotten married. I didn't feel I "should have been" invited, either -- she was living in Florida, I was in Virginia and I was pregnant at the time.

 

We never had any particularly serious discussion about me visiting, she was always aware of what was basically going on in my life and seemed to understand that I hoped to swing it at some point.

[lollipopspot]

She visited me 3 times over the 45 years, for a total of 6 days.

 

O.k., you misrepresented in your first post, and that changes things, depending on which is most accurate. You wrote:

 

Every few years, she would come to visit with me

 

That would mean she had visited you something like 14 times.

[SleeplessIn]

You know, if after 45 years you couldn't figure out how to get to her, I think she's right in believing that was "never" going to happen anyway. 45 years! I mean, you're both about 63 now, right? There will always be a reason that makes it difficult. As you're getting older...age, illness, finances, something. Not saying that it isn't difficult, but I think it just wasn't ever going to happen, if you're honest with yourself.

 

I think that the latter part of this discussion may have been damaging too. I don't know, because I don't know exactly how you said it or her reality and how she feels, but is it really true that she has no responsibilities towards anyone other than herself? I'm single now, and I don't view my life that way. I have plenty of responsibilities with my money and time. It may have just sounded like excuses her to her, or even diminishing her responsibilities and commitments, but I don't know.

 

As far as I know, she has no particular responsibilities to anyone other than herself. She has broken with her own family, she does occasionally go to visit an elderly uncle and his wife in the mid-west. She has not been working for a number of years now except for herself, has built several homes that she rents out and lives on the rental income. I'm sure she has friends in her local community, but she really never talked with me about them other than an occasional mention. She pretty much gave up on finding a solid relationship years ago, so as far as I know she does not have anyone who is truly close to her. Or if she does, she had not mentioned it.

[SleeplessIn]

O.k., you misrepresented in your first post, and that changes things, depending on which is most accurate. You wrote:

 

 

 

That would mean she had visited you something like 14 times.

 

Sorry, not intentional -- I didn't stop and count them up initially. "Every few years" is not a specific term.

[lollipopspot]

Sorry, not intentional -- I didn't stop and count them up initially. "Every few years" is not a specific term.

 

No, but an average of once every 15 years is not really "every few years."

[SleeplessIn]

No, but an average of once every 15 years is not really "every few years."

 

I suppose this turns on the meaning of "few", which varies from one individual to another:

 

The Grammarphobia Blog: How much is a few?

 

.

[CC12]

I suppose this turns on the meaning of "few", which varies from one individual to another:

 

The Grammarphobia Blog: How much is a few?

 

.

 

How obnoxious.

 

So the phrase "a few" is very ambiguous, according to that link. It could mean once or twice, or it could mean once every 15 years.

 

That is still more times than you ever visited her.

[lollipopspot]

She visited me 3 times over the 45 years, for a total of 6 days. During most of that time, I lived only a couple of hours' drive from her hometown where she had family whom she also visited -- fly east, spend 2 days with me and however long with her family, fly back to her home. But remember, her flights cost her nothing and she was not working for or paying the bills for a family. My money was not "just mine". When it came to our phone calls and letters, later email, I always kept up my end, but the trips were just out of my league.

 

As far as I know, she has no particular responsibilities to anyone other than herself. She has broken with her own family, she does occasionally go to visit an elderly uncle and his wife in the mid-west. She has not been working for a number of years now except for herself, has built several homes that she rents out and lives on the rental income. I'm sure she has friends in her local community, but she really never talked with me about them other than an occasional mention. She pretty much gave up on finding a solid relationship years ago, so as far as I know she does not have anyone who is truly close to her. Or if she does, she had not mentioned it.

 

Your money wasn't just yours, but you also had another adult earning for the family, yes? I have no clue how financially solvent you were so there's no way here to compare what kind of hardship it would be for you. You're basing your case on comparison.

 

Does she manage the properties herself, or have a management company do it? Does she have pets? Does she volunteer anywhere?

 

I don't know, and maybe I'm not the best one to answer your post, but there's something about your posts where the case against her gets worse, and you're really trying to make your case, and it's about how much easier you think it was for her. That's hard to judge from this perspective. I don't feel clear that you understand the responsibilities of her life any better than she might understand the responsibilities of yours. I get the feeling that you're making excuses. You may not have been all that close, and believe me, I flake on long distance relationships too, so I get it. But 45 years. If she just wasn't that important to you, it's o.k. Your actions kind of illustrate that. For that, you don't need to make the comparisons about how it was so much easier for her. Are you being fully honest with yourself? I think the reality might be more that you didn't care to extend yourself in that way or make much effort - and that's o.k. if that's how you felt.

 

Did you ever travel? Were you ever near her area and could have made a day trip? Could you have ever met her somewhere on a vacation and split from your family for a day?

Edited January 21, 2014 by lollipopspot

[preraph]

I'll tell you something one of my distant friends told me yesterday: Some people think friendships can just maintain themselves, but they take putting forth an effort and making it happen. Having a family is no excuse either. If it's been that long since you've seen her, chances are you're no good for each other anymore anyway. She'd be bored if all you have to talk about is family since that's only exciting to other family. She's chosen to live a more exciting life. It's not a good feeling when you feel so far down the priority list of an old friend, so I can understand her anger. I also understand your loss and your time and money constraints. But love finds a way and if it doesn't, love is left behind.

[Lokie]

but there's something about your posts where the case against her gets worse, and you're really trying to make your case, and it's about how much easier you think it was for her. That's hard to judge from this perspective. I don't feel clear that you understand the responsibilities of her life any better than she might understand the responsibilities of yours. I get the feeling that you're making excuses. You may not have been all that close, and believe me, I flake on long distance relationships too, so I get it. But 45 years. If she just wasn't that important to you, it's o.k. Your actions kind of illustrate that. For that, you don't need to make the comparisons about how it was so much easier for her. Are you being fully honest with yourself?

 

It's okay to be wrong about this. It's okay to have regrets that you didn't place more value on your friendship with her and that you now miss her.

 

In a week or so, read your post and replies again. From an outsider, you do sound defensive and committed to being right, not committed to learning about yourself and open to other perspectives - which is what you asked of us in your post.

 

I personally believe you are minimizing her taking the time to see you. Traveling to see someone displaces you from your own comfort zone (your bed, your snacks, your TV/movies, your couch/blankets, your reading lights, etc. etc.). It takes away from your vacation allotment or if you are self-employed, your income. Flying is a hassle, free or not. Driving to the airport, taking the shuttle, walking, waiting in line at security, waiting for the flight, a bottle of water costs $4, hauling around a suitcase, waiting to board and de-board, sitting in a small airplane seat, waiting on transportation to your destination, etc. Leaving one's home requires some prep, family or not, someone to get your mail, turn your lights on/off, feed your pets, water your plants, packing is a drag, etc.

 

There's just an inkling of feeling like you feel your life is more important than hers and therefore cannot be disrupted - and I'm just an outsider. That's not a fun feeling on this side.

[SleeplessIn]

Well, maybe I need to explain a little further about my life. When my son was born, I became a stay-at-home mother, so it was a one-income family. Right about the time he started school, my first husband and I adopted a little girl, and I went to work part-time. Roughly a year later, he left me. I didn't have a full-time job, and the part-time job went away ... he was not paying any child support or bills. We lived in a small rural area where there were not many jobs, for a while I worked 3 minor part-time jobs. Eventually I found a full-time job some 40 miles away. During this time, I racked up legal bills in addition to credit card charges just so we could eat and have heat in the house during the winter.

 

Managed to sell that house for no more than we still owed on it before the bank foreclosed. Moved to the nearest city that was 200 miles away, so I could find a job that would actually support us. The move didn't please my ex, so he then took me to court for child custody. More legal bills. Orthodontic bills for our daughter that he was supposed to pay but didn't, so I had to. Mental health treatment for our daughter because my ex would take our son on visits, but leave her (a 10-yr old child) crying in the driveway -- she had emotional problems already from her disjointed past which we knew when we adopted her (older child adoption), but obviously he didn't care.

 

During those years, I racked up quite a bit of credit card debt as there was no other way to cover what needed to be covered. Car repairs, etc. Suffered a back injury that eventually led to surgery which was covered by insurance, but I didn't have anything but credit cards to cover the bills that couldn't be paid for 3 months while I was on reduced short-term disability after the operation. Had other medical problems -- besides any money these cost me out of pocket, the issues sucked my job's medical leave dry and bit into my annual vacation time.

 

I was living in the east, the rest of my family was out west. During the entire period (roughly 30 years), I only got out there 3 times to see them, and my parents had to pay for those trips.

 

When I met my current husband, I was still roughly $30,000 in debt on just credit cards. That was not his responsibility to pay, it was mine. About 5 years after we married, he became 100% disabled. Three years later, I had to leave my job for medical reasons -- before I was fully recovered and able to work again, my husband underwent a major operation for cancer. A mistake was made during the surgery that left him with major near-constant pain due to the nerve damage, and although he has remained cancer free, he is on heavy duty narcotics every day. I was not able to return to work because for the first couple years after his surgery, someone had to be with him, his recuperation was very slow. At that time and since, we have both been living on his disability compensation and his Social Security. We went bankrupt because of this.

 

About 3 years after his surgery, it became clear that my parents in the west needed someone looking after them, there was no time to save up the money to make the move, so we went in debt again to make the major move across-country. That was 6 years ago and we are still paying off debt from that. My parents did help somewhat with the cost, but could only do a little bit.

 

Travel? Hardly any. In the first year of my first marriage, my mother-in-law paid for my husband and I to go to Israel for a week. Years later, a guy I was dating took me along with him on his annual week in Puerto Rico. That's it, unless you want to count camping weekends and the like.

 

Now. I don't feel sorry for myself over the above matters, these are just things that happened that had to be dealt with. Life is like that. My friend G has always known what was going on, we did keep in regular frequent touch (at least 2 or 3 times a month) by letters and phone, and in recent years via email.

 

I never promised G that I would visit her, I always knew that "the way things were going", I might not be able to do it, but I've always had hope that sooner or later my circumstances would improve and make it possible. On her end, she was able to save up and invest in property with an eye toward her retirement -- I've never ever begrudged her that, on the contrary I've been truly thrilled at her success and always will be. She's had 100% support from me always. She's been responsible only for herself and her 2 small dogs.

 

She's not my only friend -- I have others with whom I have been close, one since high school, and I've never been able to visit her either. That doesn't mean to her that I don't care. In the move west, I left behind another very close friend, and chances are good we may never see each other again because her financial and responsibility factors are also tight, but even if we don't that doesn't mean we don't love each other and keep in touch regularly. I was not able to afford out of my own pocket coming to visit my parents and family out west, unless my parents paid for it, but that doesn't mean to them that I don't care.

 

It's coming up on a year since G and I were last in touch, so it is on my mind. I miss her, I'm grieving. I was really hurt by what she said in our last conversation and more so because she knew that what she said would hurt me and she said it anyway. Regardless of the fact I never visited her, I never meant to hurt her. I tried to get her to talk to me about this so we could work it out, and she didn't want to and wouldn't respond.

[whichwayisup]

I tried to get her to talk to me about this so we could work it out, and she didn't want to and wouldn't respond.

 

Unfortunately she's chosen to not to respond and doesn't want to sort it out. I feel for you because that's a long history of friendship thrown away by hurt feelings and her not wanting to work it out.

 

All you can do is try to make peace with this and put it out of your head as time goes on.

[lollipopspot]

O.k., from that post I understand better that you've had an exceptionally hard life with a lot of financial strain.

 

She may be someone who doesn't understand your life, or to her there may have been some little windows where it seemed like you could have come? I don't know what her character is like - think through the years and see if you feel she is self centered or unempathetic. My thought of how this conversation with her may have gone wrong (from your end, can't comment on hers)...

 

Every few years, she would come to visit with me -- this was no object to her because she had free flights with the airlines she worked for. Also she was not tied down with any sort of family obligations...

 

I understood her reasons, but expressed being really sad at the thought that if she does that, then I will "never" be able to go and visit her. Her response was that she had given up on me ever visiting

 

You stress in your posts that it was easy for her - "no object" - as though the visits were nothing. For many people, traveling isn't nothing, and they do have commitments, even if they're not family ones. Having one's life compared as easy rankles some people, because most people feel their life is a challenge, even if the challenges are different or don't seem as bad. Look at it this way - your life has been filled with husbands and children - a challenge. But her life has perhaps not had as many close bonds - to her maybe you are her family - and that can be its own challenge, loneliness.

 

Also, it seems understandable that one might believe, given the way your life has gone, that you were never going to visit, even though you are closer now. It does seem like it was probably never going to happen, especially with the disabled husband now. Having you express that now you were "never" going to be able to visit, after so long and because it was probably never going to happen, may have been kind of irritating (for lack of a better word right now). Also, you are saying that if she moves out of the country you will REALLY never visit. But, people travel out of the country to visit their friends.

 

My thought is to write her a letter and apologize for your end of it. That you realize it wasn't nothing for her to visit you, and that if you said anything like her life was easy in comparison, that wasn't necessarily fair.

 

It might be better to not blame all the events in your life for why a visit didn't happen. A visit didn't happen. It still could have happened. The reasons are explanation, but presented defensively can get the other person riled up and cause them to look for reasons why it could have happened. It can be enough to say simply, 'I'm sorry I never felt able to make the trip.'

 

Other than just owning the ways your part of the communication might have been better, and apologizing for that, I'm not sure what you can do. Write a letter and see if you can open communication again with her.

 

I'm wondering if she worked for an airlines if she might have been able to give you miles to make the trip free for you, and if this was ever talked about?

 

I'm sorry your life has been difficult.

[SleeplessIn]

I don't think I ever said to her that traveling to visit me was easy for her because she got free flights -- I know I didn't think about it in those terms, on the contrary I was grateful that she had the wherewithal to come. And I do know that travel is always a hassle, I know she had to arrange boarding for her dogs, deal with baggage and changing planes, etc. It's not restful, and she'd pack all of that into at most 4 days.

 

I do think she is self-centered, but I feel she eventually became that way because she had no one else looking after her or her interests and because she has not learned a lot about give-and-take with others.

 

It may very well be that she thought of me more as "family" than her own family since she was on the outs with them most of the time. They were very critical of her (from what she told me), and she has a few quirks, and I made it a point to remember that she tended to be ultra-sensitive and thus to avoid being critical of her even if I didn't agree with some action or view she wanted to pursue ... I just looked for what I could support and alluded to other things she "might want to think about". I know I've outlasted most of her friends.

 

I think I need to give some thoughtful consideration to this possibility that she had me set higher on her list of people she cared about than I quite realized. I don't have any problem stepping all over my pride and apologizing to her for mistakes I may have made (even if just in her view, I guess) and maybe she'll be responsive ....

[lollipopspot]

I think I need to give some thoughtful consideration to this possibility that she had me set higher on her list of people she cared about than I quite realized.

 

That would make a lot of sense, given what you've said about her. She may see you as a sister, equally as important as family, or in her case more important since she didn't have good family relationships.

 

It may be that she is being the less communicative and less mature one in this argument, but sometimes giving a little (even if you were equally or more harmed in the argument) can open up the lines of communication and help the other person to get past their anger and confusion. If you still value the friendship, maybe it's worth it.

[SleeplessIn]

Thanks everyone who responded for taking the time and energy to address my concerns

 

I appreciate what each and every one of you had to say -- I will definitely also come back in a week or so and re-read this thread to see if some other things stand out to me.

 

And I'm going to send her a pretty card and a short letter soon ....