Curious.. WHY are so many men players? What causes it? Whats the benefit?

[RedRobin]

I don't know why men lie when they don't have to. A man can be 100% honest about casual sex and can still get it.

 

 

They can still get it without lying, sure...

 

 

Just not with the women they want.

[RedRobin]

Always has to be right, always has to have the last word.

 

 

Small wonder you were cheated on

 

 

He had other choices if he wasn't happy...

 

 

Oh, and FYI... he came back three months after our divorce and wanted to try again... make a fresh start. I told him no....

 

 

Not too long afterwards, I met a wonderful man... had he not died, we'd still be together.

 

 

I would have missed out on that had I stayed with that liar.... or, I might add... if I'd been focused on revenge or out getting crazy with casual sex. I didn't let my disappointment affect my belief in love, or take it out on the next man I met... unlike some of the posters here.

 

 

Will say that the crop of single men I've met here since my fiancé's death (on average) has seriously tarnished my belief in love... I don't believe I'm less lovable... I have wonderful family and friends who remind me of that...

 

 

but I have serious doubts that the available men near me are capable of giving love... mostly due to attitudes reflected in this thread.. and how they justify their own behavior.

Edited February 12, 2014 by RedRobin

[Revolver]

I don't know why men lie when they don't have to. A man can be 100% honest about casual sex and can still get it.

 

Some men can and It's significantly hardly being honest

[Woggle]

They can still get it without lying, sure...

 

 

Just not with the women they want.

 

When I only wanted casual I wanted it with like minded women so I see no reason why I had to lie.

[Woggle]

I really do believe RR has good intentions but she just doesn't get how the world has changed and she doesn't realize that men are only half the problem when it comes to the state of modern day relationships. There is another half and we need to address both.

[tlegend]

I don't know why men lie when they don't have to. A man can be 100% honest about casual sex and can still get it.

 

Its because of how we are hardwired I believe. Yes, there are exceptions to every case. However, women are emotional creatures, and men are physical creatures.

 

This being said, it's very easy to logically come to the conclusion that men are able to have casual sex easier than women. Women have been taught by most societies, in my opinion, that there is more behind sex than just the act. While men are instinctively hardwired to procreate, women generally attach emotion into sex.

 

That being said, yes men don't have to lie to have casual sex. However, to have casual sex with the girl you want to have sex with, who isn't giving out casual sex except to her ex or fwb while looking for a relationship, it would require a lie to "get into the door".

 

This whole example is evidenced by....the large number of men who lie and tell you what you want to hear in order to get you to drop your pants.

[Charlie Harper]

Whoa !!! the labeling in LS lives on!

 

Some people read things here and draw their conclusions right away.

 

I mistreated women after I was heartbroken, it was unconscious, people think that most Men sit on a table and say I AM GOING TO MAKE THEM PAY, and make plans to destroy others people lives... so because someone as a Woman had sex with you and the dumped you, he must be sociopath, or a pig, or something worse... heck NO.

 

People have motives to behave like they do Ill give you an example:

 

Myself prior to being heartbroken:

 

Arrived at my girlfriends home and she wasn't ready, she made me wait, or changed plans when I had very expensive tickets to Opera! , she did this a lot, I was "comprehensive", the second one I fell in love with was even worse. I kept begging for everything..... nowadays one is divorced 2 times and currently single and the other is in her third marriage... not surprised.

 

Me, after being heart broken.

 

I arrived at my date on time ring the door, wait exactly 3 minutes and then bye.... obviously not happy and the next time we talked she felt I stood her up !!! I always said that the minimum requirement to date me was being punctual, if she could not have the courtesy of being punctual, I could not expect more difficult or complex stuff from her.

 

It made wonders!! and obviously I lost a lot of Prima donnas in the process.

 

Real Psychopaths will DESTROY YOU they are not players, they will suck you dry and leave you empty, with debts, will engage your family and put it against you.

 

Just because someone did not go trough with you on a relationship, doesn't make him a psychopath, just because a man doesn't take crap from primma donnas, princesses and such, doesn't make him a "bad" guy.

 

And yes WE ALL LIKE to have someone who tells us the truth 100% of the time, but reality is different and such a relationship is seldom encountered.

 

Most relationships with the years or marriages, get to the point of honesty above 80% that is good, 100% honesty is Id say imposible and not healthy, somethings are better left unsaid in relationships, because of precaution, discretion or plain common sense.

 

That said I think there are players, and there are bitter prima donas, when I entered therapy I concussed on healing myself and identifying those poisonous relationships that lead to nowhere. Now even separated I am very happy with my decisions and finding out that things have not changed in 20 years, people are still expecting an alcoholic to sober up a beater to become tame, and a player to be faithful...all in the name of love.

 

My advice move on, don't label people, find out what YOU WANT AND NEED, and act accordingly...everything else is just baggage.

[BradJacobs]

In other words... a guy who has lots of casual sex is more likely to be a liar... which definitely correlates with cheating... while women who have casual sex, perhaps not so much... unless she also has low self esteem and exhibits poor boundary management.

People lie for all sorts of different reasons and I do mean to include the entire population of this planet when I used the word "people".

 

You just have to figure out which ones will own up to their mistakes and which ones will try to create lies to cover them up.

[what_a_blonde]

Its because of how we are hardwired I believe. Yes, there are exceptions to every case. However, women are emotional creatures, and men are physical creatures.

 

This being said, it's very easy to logically come to the conclusion that men are able to have casual sex easier than women. Women have been taught by most societies, in my opinion, that there is more behind sex than just the act. While men are instinctively hardwired to procreate, women generally attach emotion into sex.

 

That being said, yes men don't have to lie to have casual sex. However, to have casual sex with the girl you want to have sex with, who isn't giving out casual sex except to her ex or fwb while looking for a relationship, it would require a lie to "get into the door".

 

This whole example is evidenced by....the large number of men who lie and tell you what you want to hear in order to get you to drop your pants.

 

Men are hardwired to "procreate"? Procreate is not the same as having sex with no strings attached.

 

If they were hardwired to procreate.. then that would imply more emotion is most likely involved. Which, as we all know, is not the case. I'm assuming this might have just been an accidental misuse of the word though...

[what_a_blonde]

I don't believe most men could get casual sex on their terms unless they lie about their intentions. So, in other words... casual sex guy = liar/manipulator = poor boundary management = someone who can't be trusted in a relationship.

 

In other words... a guy who has lots of casual sex is more likely to be a liar... which definitely correlates with cheating... while women who have casual sex, perhaps not so much... unless she also has low self esteem and exhibits poor boundary management.

 

 

Definitely have to agree with the above.

 

General observation is that men who have LOTS of casual sex / FWB relationships (i.e. with multiple casual partners especially over short periods of time switching up partners) are probably not up front and honest with those multiple partners about how many other women there are.

 

I think that even most women who agree to a casual sex relationship would not be okay knowing her FWB is also having sex with 5 other women on the side. That is unless of course, as mentioned above, she has low self-esteem, among other issues.

 

That being said... IN GENERAL.. seems like men who are in multiple FWB relationships at any given moment and who constantly turnover their litter of women quickly are most likely not being honest to some of the women they are in it with. They also lack the ability to draw boundaries (and spare another's feelings even when he knows she is somewhat attached or would not be ok with him sleeping with multiple other women, yet he still strings her along to continue to get what HE wants)... and thus manipulative as well.

[William]

Good evening,

 

Relevant to the recent thread on abusive posters populating this forum, when the word moderation is mentioned and members go off on a public diatribe relevant to what should or should not be allowed here and choose not to discuss the topic at hand, we'll provide them with some time off to consider their choices.

 

This generally has been a lightly moderated thread and we hope it stays that way. Thanks and continue!

[RedRobin]

Definitely have to agree with the above.

 

General observation is that men who have LOTS of casual sex / FWB relationships (i.e. with multiple casual partners especially over short periods of time switching up partners) are probably not up front and honest with those multiple partners about how many other women there are.

 

I think that even most women who agree to a casual sex relationship would not be okay knowing her FWB is also having sex with 5 other women on the side. That is unless of course, as mentioned above, she has low self-esteem, among other issues.

 

That being said... IN GENERAL.. seems like men who are in multiple FWB relationships at any given moment and who constantly turnover their litter of women quickly are most likely not being honest to some of the women they are in it with. They also lack the ability to draw boundaries (and spare another's feelings even when he knows she is somewhat attached or would not be ok with him sleeping with multiple other women, yet he still strings her along to continue to get what HE wants)... and thus manipulative as well.

 

 

Yes, that is certainly one end of the spectrum...

 

 

What I had in mind when I posted my comment also included the guys who claim they are exclusive... and may be sexually... but also continue to see/date other women without the woman's knowledge.

 

 

Another example is the guy who says he is looking for a relationship, tells a woman he isn't seeing anyone else, and then proceeds to try and push it into some more casual so he can justify (to himself) seeing/dating other women. I call it FWB 'grooming'. They likely were never really interested in a relationship with her (or maybe anyone)... they just want the consistency of regular sex and companionship (while keeping his options open) and know she wouldn't go along with a FWB arrangement if that were put on the table.

 

 

The above two can be tough to sift out... and probably make up the majority of situations I'd also put in the 'player' bin... Your guy likely started out in the first category... then segued into the latter. In other words, he tried to segue you into FWB territory without your permission. One hallmark of this kind of guy is getting a lot of vague or no responses to your requests for clarity. You gave him the benefit of the doubt for awhile because you knew him as a friend before... But then ended it when he wouldn't come clean. You really have nothing to blame yourself over or feel ashamed about. He was a weasel... Plain and simple. Others ought to know he is a weasel, if you ask me... so he will have a harder time doing this in the future.

 

 

Of course, the example of a guy lying about wanting a relationship in order to get sex at all happens all the time. In fact, I'd say that is more the norm and very easily avoidable. The other two is what concerns me more.... and what bothers me when I see other men coaching, encouraging, and supporting this kind of behavior in themselves or other men.

 

 

It is the other groups of guys above who either lie about their intentions outright OR do not make a woman aware of his changing feelings or intentions so he can keep having sex with her... and robbing her of the chance to make an informed decision regarding continuing or not continuing... both qualify as 'players' to me. They may or may not be seeing other women simultaneously while they do it... The point remains that they are gaining HER exclusivity and trust on a false pretense... and THAT is what makes him a 'player' or at the very least, a user.

 

 

... regarding labels in general (sociopath and otherwise)... everyone has likely hurt someone in their life through their own ignorance or lack of self awareness. That's the human condition.

 

 

When I see them congratulating themselves or exhibit a lack of remorse towards those they hurt... no matter how unintentional... That's when I personally start to wonder if they have a character disorder. If they do nothing to stop that behavior in the future, once acknowledged, then I do wonder if the unintentional has now become intentional, and they have unfortunately slipped into socio or psychopath territory.

 

 

In any case... Asking for STD tests in advance are generally very effective in weeding out the intentional and unintentional users... Its just too much work for those guys and it sends a very clear message that what you are considering is serious (not casual). I suppose it wouldn't deter a committed sociopath/psychopath... but there are other ways to sort those out... the "how to spot a liar" is very reliable... in other words, trust your gut.

Edited February 13, 2014 by RedRobin

[GoreSP]

Men are hardwired to "procreate"? Procreate is not the same as having sex with no strings attached.

 

If they were hardwired to procreate.. then that would imply more emotion is most likely involved. Which, as we all know, is not the case. I'm assuming this might have just been an accidental misuse of the word though...

 

Actually, procreation does not involve feelings at all...All you need is an ovulating woman and an ejaculation.

 

And women are just as wired to procreate as men - just differently.

[Charlie Harper]

Guess a man can't have female friends, if he does that makes him a player or untrustworthy?

 

just asking´

[Targetlock]

okay as a male care worker I have far more female friends then male friends and i would certainly like to think I'm trustworthy.

And no i don't understand players as i find it shallow and juvenile, it gives the rest of us a bad name who are actually searching for something real rather than a fling or a one-off. just my opinion on this.

[Charlie Harper]

^ amen to that !

 

But the question remains, if we are very good male friends, that will male us player in their eyes...

 

I guess it takes a very secure woman to see that men who happen to get along with women and stay friends doesn't make him a player or a cheater.

[what_a_blonde]

^ amen to that !

 

But the question remains, if we are very good male friends, that will male us player in their eyes...

 

I guess it takes a very secure woman to see that men who happen to get along with women and stay friends doesn't make him a player or a cheater.

 

 

Actually I DO think men can have female friends and not be considered a player. Player and a genuine male friend are not the same... Its all in the intent.

 

In fact, the guy I've posted about I was originally friends with and I would have been perfectly content with that forever and ever. But.... he had to one day make a move (after almost 2 yrs of being friends). Then he had to tell me how much more feelings he had for me beyond friendship. Then, even after I had reservations... and finally warmed up to the idea of it and we took it to the next level... he didn't bother telling me he suddenly changed his mind and that he only wanted to be my friend again- but with the benefits and no strings attached. WTF.

 

I would have LOVED if he were a true friend, and instead of continuing to take advantage of the physical part (while knowing I was not the type of girl to ever be ok with a FWB arrangement), he would have stepped back and saw that my feelings were involved and he could have told me sooner and been completely STRAIGHT FORWARD in saying that he maybe didn't mean what he said about a future between us... etc... or that he had changed his mind.

 

Sorry for the rant But again, to clarify... NO. I do not think that decent, genuine guys who are truly just friends with a girl and make that clear (i.e. no flirting, innuendos, etc.) equate to player. At all.

Edited February 14, 2014 by what_a_blonde

[what_a_blonde]

 

What I had in mind when I posted my comment also included the guys who claim they are exclusive... and may be sexually... but also continue to see/date other women without the woman's knowledge.

 

 

Another example is the guy who says he is looking for a relationship, tells a woman he isn't seeing anyone else, and then proceeds to try and push it into some more casual so he can justify (to himself) seeing/dating other women. I call it FWB 'grooming'. They likely were never really interested in a relationship with her (or maybe anyone)... they just want the consistency of regular sex and companionship (while keeping his options open) and know she wouldn't go along with a FWB arrangement if that were put on the table.

 

 

The above two can be tough to sift out... and probably make up the majority of situations I'd also put in the 'player' bin... Your guy likely started out in the first category... then segued into the latter. In other words, he tried to segue you into FWB territory without your permission. One hallmark of this kind of guy is getting a lot of vague or no responses to your requests for clarity. You gave him the benefit of the doubt for awhile because you knew him as a friend before... But then ended it when he wouldn't come clean. You really have nothing to blame yourself over or feel ashamed about. He was a weasel... Plain and simple. Others ought to know he is a weasel, if you ask me... so he will have a harder time doing this in the future.

 

It is the other groups of guys above who either lie about their intentions outright OR do not make a woman aware of his changing feelings or intentions so he can keep having sex with her... and robbing her of the chance to make an informed decision regarding continuing or not continuing... both qualify as 'players' to me. They may or may not be seeing other women simultaneously while they do it... The point remains that they are gaining HER exclusivity and trust on a false pretense... and THAT is what makes him a 'player' or at the very least, a user.

 

in other words, trust your gut.

 

As usual, nailed it again. (took out some of your text above, but left most of what I'm referring to )

 

He was totally "grooming" me... and like you say, doing so while gaining my exclusivity and trust on a false pretense. Thanks again for reassuring, it really helps to make me feel better. I've never been the Debbie-downer type and usually am fairly peppy, however somehow he found a way into my head to make me feel like it was MY fault for getting feelings and made it seem like he never told me the things he did or led me on. It messed me up for a while.

 

I'm not feeling that way anymore, but occasionally have some rough days when I'll think about it and get a little down... however these posts and posting here continue to remind me that it wasn't JUST me.

 

Just feel bad for the women on Match.com (ones that might be looking for something "serious") that come across him.

[RedRobin]

I really do believe RR has good intentions but she just doesn't get how the world has changed and she doesn't realize that men are only half the problem when it comes to the state of modern day relationships. There is another half and we need to address both.

 

 

The world hasn't really changed, Woggle. There will always be good people and not so good people. The only difference, perhaps, is that technology has made it that much easier for some not so good people to have access to good people...

 

 

You can do your part by not providing lots of excuses for these guys... which you routinely provide in abundance.

 

 

As for my intentions... it is laughable that you even feel the need to comment on it. I'm not out using men or wreaking havoc on them.

 

 

I get it that lots of men would prefer that women like me shut the eff up so they can carry on with their business of doing whatever they want at women's expense, but too bad. The fact remains that it is not easy for anyone to find and keep love. But there is no excuse for lying and manipulation... no matter which gender it comes from.

Edited February 14, 2014 by RedRobin

[joystickd]

The world hasn't really changed, Woggle. There will always be good people and not so good people. The only difference, perhaps, is that technology has made it that much easier for some not so good people to have access to good people...

 

 

You can do your part by not providing lots of excuses for these guys... which you routinely provide in abundance.

 

 

As for my intentions... it is laughable that you even feel the need to comment on it. I'm not out using men or wreaking havoc on them.

 

 

I get it that lots of men would prefer that women like me shut the eff up so they can carry on with their business of doing whatever they want at women's expense, but too bad. The fact remains that it is not easy for anyone to find and keep love. But there is no excuse for lying and manipulation... no matter which gender it comes from.

Refuses to acknowledge the other half of the equation which is herself. That says a lot and devalues her "advice". If you can see that half of the equation then the problem ain't the men honey it a serious problem with you.

[RedRobin]

Refuses to acknowledge the other half of the equation which is herself. That says a lot and devalues her "advice". If you can see that half of the equation then the problem ain't the men honey it a serious problem with you.

 

 

I've already acknowledged my issues. I know what good men look like and have them in my life... That's why I know you guys can do better.

 

 

You don't. Clearly. You've said so yourself...

 

 

Many of you guys have much bigger problems than any woman. Can't keep yourselves out of jail, off drugs, out of debt, can't control your emotions (ie violence), or even keep a normal weight and healthy. Poor you... poor, poor, you.

 

 

So no... I have none of those things. I also don't cheat, I don't multi-date, and I don't lie to get a piece of *ss or any man's money.

 

 

You have other men to blame much more than any woman by making you believe those things are ok.

 

 

Whatever issues I may have are simply trivial by comparison...

[joystickd]

I've already acknowledged my issues. I know what good men look like and have them in my life... That's why I know you guys can do better.

 

 

You don't. Clearly. You've said so yourself...

 

 

Many of you guys have much bigger problems than any woman. Can't keep yourselves out of jail, off drugs, out of debt, can't control your emotions (ie violence), or even keep a normal weight and healthy. Poor you... poor, poor, you.

 

 

So no... I have none of those things. I also don't cheat, I don't multi-date, and I don't lie to get a piece of *ss or any man's money.

 

 

You have other men to blame much more than any woman by making you believe those things are ok.

 

 

Whatever issues I may have are simply trivial by comparison...

Oh I don't. Why because of my preference of not having women friends? I'm not big on the potential drama. I can acknowledge my role in my past failure with dating and recent ones. I'm not one that will get on here and just attack women like you attack men. I will check men on their BS too. Look at my post history. Don't deflect here now we are talking about you. I'm not the one complaining about men and still single lol. It says a lot when men and women talk about you attitude towards men.

Edited February 14, 2014 by joystickd

[joystickd]

I know what good men look like and have them in my life... That's why I know you guys can do better.

 

 

Based on the tone of your posts about men. Would a man really want to show you better if you are in real life the way you are on here? Honestly would they? If they did it would be because of look and it really wouldn't last long.

[joystickd]

Actually I DO think men can have female friends and not be considered a player. Player and a genuine male friend are not the same... Its all in the intent.

 

In fact, the guy I've posted about I was originally friends with and I would have been perfectly content with that forever and ever. But.... he had to one day make a move (after almost 2 yrs of being friends). Then he had to tell me how much more feelings he had for me beyond friendship. Then, even after I had reservations... and finally warmed up to the idea of it and we took it to the next level... he didn't bother telling me he suddenly changed his mind and that he only wanted to be my friend again- but with the benefits and no strings attached. WTF.

 

I would have LOVED if he were a true friend, and instead of continuing to take advantage of the physical part (while knowing I was not the type of girl to ever be ok with a FWB arrangement), he would have stepped back and saw that my feelings were involved and he could have told me sooner and been completely STRAIGHT FORWARD in saying that he maybe didn't mean what he said about a future between us... etc... or that he had changed his mind.

 

Sorry for the rant But again, to clarify... NO. I do not think that decent, genuine guys who are truly just friends with a girl and make that clear (i.e. no flirting, innuendos, etc.) equate to player. At all.

^ this right here the reason I'm not big on being friends with women. I don't want to have a potential confusing situation to happen. I had it happen to me once and it turned nasty. I know I did some things that helped to take it to a nasty turn but in the end it was her indecisiveness and dishonesty that ruined it. I do have some but they are usually women I look at more like a sister.

[Tayken]

I really do believe RR has good intentions but she just doesn't get how the world has changed and she doesn't realize that men are only half the problem when it comes to the state of modern day relationships. There is another half and we need to address both.

 

Yes...like communication between couples without coming to blows, name calling or pot and pans throwing

 

There are a lot of women out there, thanks to their upbringing, that have broken out of that feeling of entitlement mentality, and it's either their way or the highway