Curious.. WHY are so many men players? What causes it? Whats the benefit?

[RedRobin]

RR, can you not accept that some men AND women enjoy casual sex? There is nothing inherently wrong with that as long as they do not purposefully attempt to deceive.

 

Those of us who desire commitment-minded men are free to choose men who are compatible with us, and to choose not to engage with 'players'. Let them live their own lives the way they see fit, yes?

 

 

of course I can accept it... if the 'players' would choose to stick to women who shared their philosophy, I'd have few gripes. Neither would lots of other people. This thread is about those who knowingly deceive a commitment minded person into believing they have feelings or intentions that they don't.

 

 

That's the definition of a player. It's not a person who has casual sex. It's a person who lies in order to get sex or manipulate people. There is no defense of them in my opinion. Almost none of them would have any 'demand' if they didn't have to lie to get it.

 

 

I personally am sick of these douchebags being given free reign under the liberal cover of 'live and let live'... when their whole lifestyle is more or less all about deception and whatever they can get away with.

 

 

Like I said, if they were half as upfront as some of these guys like to claim they are, then no one would be griping. But they aren't. If some of the folks in question here hadn't demonstrated a posting history where they actively coached other men on how to conceal their true intentions, or develop strategies to hide how many women they were sleeping with simultaneously, it would be a different story. I have a very long memory, and an accurate one.

Edited February 10, 2014 by RedRobin

[Woggle]

of course I can accept it... if the 'players' would choose to stick to women who shared their philosophy, I'd have few gripes. Neither would lots of other people. This thread is about those who knowingly deceive a commitment minded person into believing they have feelings or intentions that they don't.

 

 

That's the definition of a player. It's not a person who has casual sex. It's a person who lies in order to get sex or manipulate people. There is no defense of them in my opinion. Almost none of them would have any 'demand' if they didn't have to lie to get it.

 

 

I personally am sick of these douchebags being given free reign under the liberal cover of 'live and let live'... when their whole lifestyle is more or less all about deception and whatever they can get away with.

 

 

Like I said, if they were half as upfront as some of these guys like to claim they are, then no one would be griping. But they aren't. If some of the folks in question here hadn't demonstrated a posting history where they actively coached other men on how to conceal their true intentions, or develop strategies to hide how many women they were sleeping with simultaneously, it would be a different story. I have a very long memory, and an accurate one.

 

Then how come you have criticized me for honestly having casual sex after my divorce?

[RedRobin]

Then how come you have criticized me for honestly having casual sex after my divorce?

 

 

maybe because I've only met one or maybe two men in my whole entire life who 'honestly' tried to have casual sex with me. Almost all of them continued with the BS in spite of me telling them I was looking for a relationship. That's not being upfront. Some of them went to great lengths to try and convince me they were sincere, but time certainly did tell. The STD test hurdle fixed all that.

 

 

Most of the time, I'm convinced it's a figment of these guy's imagination that the woman agreed to it... wishful thinking so they don't have to feel bad about what they are doing.... some story they tell their friends.

 

 

So no... when a guy tells me he had a FWB, all I think of now is user. Done. If I catch even one hint of a rumor that a guy is a player, he's out.

Edited February 10, 2014 by RedRobin

[Els]

of course I can accept it... if the 'players' would choose to stick to women who shared their philosophy, I'd have few gripes. Neither would lots of other people. This thread is about those who knowingly deceive a commitment minded person into believing they have feelings or intentions that they don't.

 

 

That's the definition of a player. It's not a person who has casual sex. It's a person who lies in order to get sex or manipulate people. There is no defense of them in my opinion. Almost none of them would have any 'demand' if they didn't have to lie to get it.

 

Fair enough. I wasn't defending those who lie and manipulate, but you have actually lambasted a few posters here who have honest and non-manipulative casual sex, yes?

[Woggle]

maybe because I've only met one or maybe two men in my whole entire life who 'honestly' tried to have casual sex with me. Almost all of them continued with the BS in spite of me telling them I was looking for a relationship. That's not being upfront. Some of them went to great lengths to try and convince me they were sincere, but time certainly did tell. The STD test hurdle fixed all that.

 

 

Most of the time, I'm convinced it's a figment of these guy's imagination that the woman agreed to it... wishful thinking so they don't have to feel bad about what they are doing.... some story they tell their friends.

 

 

So no... when a guy tells me he had a FWB, all I think of now is user. Done. If I catch even one hint of a rumor that a guy is a player, he's out.

 

If you don't want to believe me then fine but I never misled anybody.

[joystickd]

If you don't want to believe me then fine but I never misled anybody.

Players often fall in the same category as promiscuous women. The two groups often have negative images that have been engrained in people's minds. Promiscuous women are seen as unfaithful and players are seen as liars and deceptive when it's not always the case. The thing is that reality based evidence supports the negative images. It's understandable that honesty or fidelity out of these two types of people is hard to believe because the evidence out here is able to prove otherwise.

[RedRobin]

Fair enough. I wasn't defending those who lie and manipulate, but you have actually lambasted a few posters here who have honest and non-manipulative casual sex, yes?

 

 

I've lambasted those who defend players and who rather unapologetically hurt others with their pursuit of casual sex... as in, assuming the other person had it coming.

 

 

Yea, that's my problem Els... I see an inconsistency. They defend male players and liars, complain about their pain, and then excuse their casual sex having days all in one breath. So please spare me.

[RedRobin]

If you don't want to believe me then fine but I never misled anybody.

 

 

Oh, I have no doubt that YOU believe in your own mind that she went along with it.

 

 

Like I said... I've never met a 'player' who was truly upfront. If I didn't have my ways of sorting them out, I'd be in the same boat as lots of other women here. Maybe just call me lucky that I got to observe a few in my workplace before I had the need to sort them out in dating.

 

 

They lie to themselves just as much as they lie to others.... if not more.

[joystickd]

I've lambasted those who defend players and who rather unapologetically hurt others with their pursuit of casual sex... as in, assuming the other person had it coming.

 

 

Yea, that's my problem Els... I see an inconsistency. They defend male players and liars, complain about their pain, and then excuse their casual sex having days all in one breath. So please spare me.

Do you check women and their bad behavior? We can see why you are still single

[joystickd]

Maybe that's why guys are players - the traditional way of doing things just yields too low a success rate.

I will have to agree for some guy the normal dance doesn't work. Everybody is different. Some can instantly look for a relationship or some play around until they meet the right one. For some men it's an evolution the go from being nothing, player, and then settling down.

[RedRobin]

anyway... the glorification of 'players' by some men... and most women's need to find ever more clever ways to avoid them and sort them out has made dating a huge chore for lots of women....

 

 

These people (usually men) seriously pollute the pool for both men and women who are legitimately looking for love.

 

 

Both men and women who care about the emotional world we live in would be wise to cast a skeptical eye on anyone who makes such claims. Men especially. Lots of players enjoy the cover of appearing to be decent guys because their friends cover for them. Friends who claim to not go along with what these guys do... but their continued support of them shows otherwise.

[RedRobin]

I never considered myself a player although I wasn't really that honest on OLD. I said the usual stuff in my profile (which was mostly written by a female friend of mine), and mostly it WAS what I wanted. But just not at that moment.

 

I think the only way to really be successful on OLD is to be "playerish".

 

Another friend of mine who was one of the people suggesting OLD after I had been dumped by my first girlfriend actually was a player, but he had an incredibly low success rate on OLD.

 

He showed me how he was using it and something immediately hit me: he's spending too long trying to get numbers from specific girls. Most of them either don't reply or stop messaging after a while.

 

I told him my thoughts, and my suggestion was to turn his filters off, get a large list, readjust his filters and then just send bulk messages. He was horrified and said that he might get mingers replying. I didn't say anything to that, but privately thought it was stupid. Whether she looks like Paris HIlton or a cow, biologically there is going to be very little difference.

 

Using my own method I got laid within a month, had a 2 month relationship with her and then she dumped me.

 

So I repeated the process and it took longer to get into a relationship with my current wife, but I went on a lot of dates. I can't even remember how many. At the time I met my wife I was also seeing another good prospect. But my wife was upset that I was still seeing her and said that she wouldn't go further physically unless I stopped seeing the other girl. It was a tough dilemma. In the end I stopped seeing the other girl because I had a near confirmation that I would get laid by my current wife.

 

It panned out. I expected her to dump me once she realized I was really only after sex, but it grew into a great relationship and then marriage.

 

Was that player type behaviour? I don't know. If there is an online equivalent of player type behaviour then what I did might qualify. Do I regret it? No way. I could have sat there like a chump waiting for replies from 20 girls or just bulk message as many as possible and have something to work with.

 

Maybe that's why guys are players - the traditional way of doing things just yields too low a success rate.

 

 

Thanks for your story... Nice to hear you had to win your wife with lies. Good luck on that marriage thing... I'm sure your wife won't be so happy down the road when you actually have to do something that demonstrates you actually care about what happens to her over your own needs for a change. Don't be so smug that it will all work out for you in the end though. Lots of women do wise up eventually...

 

 

... and as far as success.... I guess if getting laid is all you care about, then yea... you've proved my point. Lying is the only way you and lots of other men know how to do it. Lying to get your wife to marry you too, is what I'm also betting. Sad.

 

 

Oh, and thanks for the timeline too... It's why I tell women who are sincerely looking for a relationship to hold out for two or three months if possible... and don't proceed until she can confirm the guy is exclusive. Especially online. Guys with your story are a dime a dozen. Enforcing the STD test in advance usually does the trick too. See, if your now wife obliged you to get STD tests in advance, I seriously doubt you would have kept seeing her... and you would have burdened some other woman with your arguably dubious commitment.

Edited February 10, 2014 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

I'm sorry you feel this way. I don't think I really lied. I said I wanted certain things, but not necessarily im a short time frame.

 

So I wanted to get laid. Guess what! Most guys do. I'm sorry that's such a shock for you. Just because I started off wanting sex does NOT invalidate my relationship or marriage. After a few months the relationship had totally changed and it was very emotional as well. As for lying to get married... I never did. By that point both of us wanted it.

 

The first girl I met on OLD and had a relationship with would not have worked out anyway. She wasn't smart. A lot of things I said went over her head. When we argued she also said some really idiotic things. I often just smiled and told her "That word doesn't mean what you think it does." She also couldn't converse deeply about something even slighty technical. My wife is the exact opposite. Extremely smart. So why did I stay with the first girl for 2 months? To get laid. Sorry if it upsets you.

 

The point is that sex is a powerful motivator and guys who deny that it is a motivator for them are the ones who are lying, not the players.

 

In my case it shouldn't matter what the initial motivation was. I met my wife and we got along very well, and got married.

 

 

Anyway... most women doing OLD know when a guy is doing the bulk messaging. Only the desperate and naïve ones reply to those. You say your wife was smart... but who is to say. I'd say she wasn't all that smart if she responded to a bulk message and then ultimately married a guy who had to lie to her in order to get on her good side.

 

 

It's not like you just turn off the 'lying to get what you want' switch. I'm sure it will be employed the next time you want something you don't feel you can get any other way. *shrug* But that is your wife's problem to deal with.

 

 

I've stopped doing OLD myself... very few decent guys there. Mostly guys looking to 'get laid' and happy to lie to do it. At least IRL, there are consequences when they do that. Not always... but usually there are.

[RedRobin]

Your argument is laughable.

 

I've been with 3 women. Ask the average guy who hasn't been on OLD and you will probably get a much higher figure.

 

So unless you think being a guy who uses OLD in itself makes one a high STD risk, i'm not sure what point you are trying to make other than demonising me.

 

 

Well, given our player loving culture, I'd say it is wise that any woman apply the STD test before having sex with a guy.

 

 

Most of the guys looking to just get laid will be hard pressed to wait past 3-4 dates... among those who remain, only the truly interested and responsible ones will go for the STD tests. I've never witnessed it otherwise. It has saved me a whole lot of headaches, and it is the best way I can think of to find out exactly how much sleeping around he has done. It's an amazing filter that way.

 

 

I highly recommend it for any woman who wants to quickly put the kibosh on guys playing the field and who is serious about finding a relationship with a straight up, honest man.

 

 

Let the other ones go have sex with women who don't care about those things. Condom or no condom. Fine with me.

Edited February 10, 2014 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

Tell me where I lied.

 

And yes, she is actually very smart. She is a highly specialised solicitor and you won't make in that game without being smart.

 

You're just upset that everything isn't as black and white as you thought.

 

 

I suppose you claimed to be looking for a relationship when you really weren't. That's a lie. Just because you happen to be in a relationship now doesn't excuse the lie you made to even get a chance with her. There are lots of other women whose time you wasted and you wouldn't have had a chance with if you hadn't lied. That's the problem... and it is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Just because you claim it worked out for YOU at the moment, doesn't mean it will work out in the long run for either you or your now wife. Because you've already proven to yourself that you need to lie to get what you want... it won't be the last time you employ that strategy, is my bet.

 

... and no, I'm not upset. LS is full of men who claim to be the exception to the rule.

 

 

It's MY job to not have to worry about being the exception... and to find a guy who is straight up and honest from day one as his core being. I'm not desperate to get married, especially not to someone who had to conceal his true motivations in order to get me to give him a chance. I'll pass on those... and do quite frequently... but again, that's why I don't do OLD.

 

 

the veil of anonymity makes it way too easy for people to justify lying.

Edited February 10, 2014 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

Not that I'm saying don't insist on the tests. It is definitely safer to do that. But thinking every guy on OLD has STDs just because you met him on OLD is asinine.

 

 

Well, lets put it this way... I don't really need to assume anything, do I? He goes and gets the tests and science does its magic. That's the beauty of it.

 

 

Even more than that, is the effort it takes to go get one. A guy won't do it unless he's serious about her, which is the whole point exactly. Heck, it's not even the outcome of the tests that is all that important (because most people probably ARE clean). It's all about him demonstrating that he's serious about being in a relationship with that particular woman... not just floating his options with whomever might agree to have sex with him.

 

 

Funny that men whip out the paranoid card to avoid being responsible. I've heard that one too. That's ok. Keep doing all that hand waving. It's kind of amusing. Reminds me of some of my students when I tell them they can't turn their homework in late or they need an excuse from the dean or medical center to justify their absence at an exam. It's all just noise...

[RedRobin]

Well let me ask you this...

 

You say you want complete honesty. Are you willing to also be completely honest with the guy?

 

When you start dating, it's quite superficial. No one is ever completely honest. You are trying to impress this person. If you are completelyhonest from day one the guy is going to run away. No one wants information overload.

 

No two people have identical likes, values, beliefs and experiences. If we told everyone up front every single thing we were thinking and every single thing we had done in the past no one would get to know another person at all.

 

I respect your value of complete honesty but it's a bit unrealistic.

 

Please tell me I'm wrong on this. Just try.

 

 

I believe the very minimum we owe another person is to be honest about our values and goals from the very beginning.

 

 

Sure... no one is going to be blurting out their life story to a complete stranger. Noone is asking that... but tell me... why should I or anyone contemplate giving any guy a chance... and even RISKING sharing those things with a man who doesn't have the basic decency to be honest about something so important as their relationship goals (or lack of them).

 

 

There is a very well respected marriage counselor who promotes the concept of total honesty as the only way to sustain a healthy marriage. I've observed it in my own parent's marriage... and in the marriages of my friends and family... and the LS'ers who are long time married would say the same.

[RedRobin]

Ok.

 

I'll grant you that.

 

But what about multiple levels of goals? I'm sure everyone wants to get married eventually, but have sex sooner than that.

 

So the primary goal in that case would be to have sex.

 

He secondary goal would be to find out if you are suitable for marriage.

 

 

Ok... lets just say that I get it that not everyone wants to get married. If the guy knows that, then he's obliged to say so upfront if a woman asks...

 

 

If she tells him she's looking for a relationship ultimately leading to marriage... and he's not in that frame of mind... then he shouldn't keep seeing her.

 

 

... and no, the primary goal of those who may not be looking for marriage is NOT just to have sex. Lots of people don't want to get married anytime soon for lots of reasons... but they still don't want to have sex outside of an exclusive relationship... AND, if they did find out while dating that their goals were not aligned, they'd have the decency to break up with them amicably... not string the other person along until they found a better deal or just use them until the other person gets fed up and dumps them... like you did.

 

 

I'm not a fan of those who have to approach life so dishonestly and, well, passively.

[RedRobin]

What I did was more like having a sex relationship for as long as possible but only with one girl at a time.

 

 

Alright... how would you like it if a woman did that to you... you invested in her... maybe started to have feelings for her... maybe you passed on some other dating opportunities in the meantime...

 

 

Then she dumped you as soon as she found someone better... and you found out later she never really liked you all that much... she was just using you and pretending to like you.

 

 

You wouldn't like it done to you. I don't see how you or anyone can justify doing it to someone else.

[Woggle]

Oh, I have no doubt that YOU believe in your own mind that she went along with it.

 

 

Like I said... I've never met a 'player' who was truly upfront. If I didn't have my ways of sorting them out, I'd be in the same boat as lots of other women here. Maybe just call me lucky that I got to observe a few in my workplace before I had the need to sort them out in dating.

 

 

They lie to themselves just as much as they lie to others.... if not more.

 

She told me upfront that she only wants a casual relationship and she was the one who sort of came on to me. She is known for seeing a man she likes and going for it. I was her target at the time and before we started having sex we both said this would never be anything more than FWB.

 

When she started catching feelings and telling me she was starting to want more I cut off the whole thing right there. No more sleeping together or anything but she tried to play the victim and act like I misled her. Tell me where I was dishonest.

[Radu]

She told me upfront that she only wants a casual relationship and she was the one who sort of came on to me. She is known for seeing a man she likes and going for it. I was her target at the time and before we started having sex we both said this would never be anything more than FWB.

 

When she started catching feelings and telling me she was starting to want more I cut off the whole thing right there. No more sleeping together or anything but she tried to play the victim and act like I misled her. Tell me where I was dishonest.

 

When you were born and messed it all up by not being born the right gender.

 

Stop blaming others !!!

[Woggle]

When you were born and messed it all up by not being born the right gender.

 

Stop blaming others !!!

 

Maybe but I just can't see how I am wrong by sticking to the rules we both agreed on. She was the ones who wanted to changed everything and I'm the bad guy?

[Radu]

I'll try to explain it in a simpler way.

 

When you look in the bathroom mirror do you see something hanging uselessly between your legs ?

If you do, then that's why.

 

Just accept your guilt, let's not make a scene.

[joystickd]

I'll try to explain it in a simpler way.

 

When you look in the bathroom mirror do you see something hanging uselessly between your legs ?

If you do, then that's why.

 

Just accept your guilt, let's not make a scene.

 

I cried when i came to that realization

[GoreSP]

If all the women who are told 'I'm just not ready for a relationship' would just let go and move on, there would be a ****load less women complaining about so called players,..

 

Also, and this is not to be interpreted as slut shaming: It is well within our rights to sleep with a man whenever we want. However, if you are going to go and sleep with a man you've met less than a month ago, please accept that he may realize at some point you two are not a good match and it has nothing to do with using you for sex.

A lot of players are stuck with this 'title' because too many women who think sex means 'oh, we are in a relationship now!'

 

Feel free to use this text and switch 'women' into 'men' and 'men' into 'women' because it works just as well.