Going from Christian to agnostic is very eye opening

[angelcake]

In the last couple of years I have starting "thinking outside of the box" so to speak, and have started questioning my beliefs about the existance of God.

 

From the time I was 4 until the age of 18, I was raised in a Pentecostal church that was more of a cult. We were scared into being Christians. It wasn't about feeling God and walking with him, it was about you better believe and be saved or you are going to hell.

 

As a child I was forced to watch movies about the end of times. I remember watching a lady miss the rapture (which was supposed to happen at any second in real life) and was tracked down for not taking the mark of the beast and she starved and hid out and the evil men finally found her and decapitated her (we were taught that's what the bible said they will do to you). I had to watch movies about what would happen if communist took over America and how they would take bamboo sticks and jab them in kids ears to deafen them. I remember the little boy in the movie vomiting when they did this. After being forced to watch some of these movies, each time my sister and I were so terrified that we'd sleep in the same bed together for weeks after. I hated being forced to go and watch those.

 

So all of my childhood, I was taught that if you had just ONE sin on your heart when you died, you went straight to hell or that one sin could cause you to miss the rapture. I lived in constant fear of messing up. If I sinned, I immediately sought forgiveness. I tried to be perfect for the fear of hell ate at me. I didn't enjoy going to church, I questioned things and my mother would say "because the bible says so" so I learned not to question.

 

So now, here I am at the age of 40. I have went to church off and on for my adult life but it was always a chore and I was usually cursing and stressed trying to get kids ready that i realized it did more harm than good and just wasn't worth it. I haven't been in church for probably five years and i haven't missed it a bit. I don't know if I should be ashamed of that or not.

 

I find myself thinking this is a bunch of crock and I can honestly say, it feels so nice to be out from under the stress of trying to be a Christian. It is wonderful to not have to live in such fear.

 

I haven't fully convinced myself yet that there isn't a God. Sometimes I will find myself saying a little prayer about something. But if walking with God means being a Christian in the typical sense, then I was no part of it. I still fear hell, though. My son is 16 and is agnostic. He says all of his friends except one are also agnostic or atheist. He says belief in God is going away with each generation. I hope I did not do him a disservice by not taking him to church more, but I am also happy he didn't have to live in torment as I did all of those years.

 

It's amazing the difference it has made to realize what I was taught probably is just man made control tactics. I still believe there may be a higher power but I also think not. I have so much more peace, I truly feel set free and happy.

 

So for those of you who experienced being a believer and transitioning over to a non believer, how long did it take you to start questioning your beliefs? Did you feel as tortured as I did trying to live a perfect life? Do you find yourself still feeling spiritual vs religious, and still questioning if your new beliefs are the right ones?

[dichotomy]

Very common for Christians to question their faith and beliefs. I myself am currently in a low spot - and thinking more along the lines of Deism. I am struggle with concepts such as predetermination and God being involved in all things that happen to me and for me.

 

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

But your entire exposure to Christianity is based on the Pentecostal Church ?, which is a rather specific and perhaps narrow view. I would encourage you in your journey to perhaps explore a few other different churches and denominations and views they have.

 

For example, I am not Catholic, but I do believe the current Pope is inspirational.

[Robert Z]

So for those of you who experienced being a believer and transitioning over to a non believer, how long did it take you to start questioning your beliefs? Did you feel as tortured as I did trying to live a perfect life? Do you find yourself still feeling spiritual vs religious, and still questioning if your new beliefs are the right ones?

 

 

 

I was raised Catholic. It took a long time to escape that deep-seated fear of hell. But with time, as I grew more and more convinced that religion is mostly man-made myths and politics, the roar of hell's fire slowly faded into silence. And yes, it was more than nice to allow myself to be human and try to enjoy my life without all of the guilt. My beliefs had helped to trap me in a life that I hated.

 

 

As for my beliefs now, I am open to the idea of continued existence but not in the classical Christian sense. And if death is it, then so be it. I would rather focus on enjoying the time I have than worrying about something completely beyond my control.

[angelcake]

Very common for Christians to question their faith and beliefs. I myself am currently in a low spot - and thinking more along the lines of Deism. I am struggle with concepts such as predetermination and God being involved in all things that happen to me and for me.

 

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

But your entire exposure to Christianity is based on the Pentecostal Church ?, which is a rather specific and perhaps narrow view. I would encourage you in your journey to perhaps explore a few other different churches and denominations and views they have.

 

For example, I am not Catholic, but I do believe the current Pope is inspirational.

 

Thank you for your reply. Yes, as an adult I have tried Baptist (for several years), Christian churches and even attended Catholic Mass. I've found the Baptist and Christian were more "gentle" so to speak in their teachings. I really enjoyed going to Mass but I don't agree with the Catholic beliefs. I don't really think its about a certain religion for me. I question if it's all real, and more and more I lean towards the belief that it's not.

[angelcake]

I was raised Catholic. It took a long time to escape that deep-seated fear of hell. But with time, as I grew more and more convinced that religion is mostly man-made myths and politics, the roar of hell's fire slowly faded into silence. And yes, it was more than nice to allow myself to be human and try to enjoy my life without all of the guilt. My beliefs had helped to trap me in a life that I hated.

 

 

As for my beliefs now, I am open to the idea of continued existence but not in the classical Christian sense. And if death is it, then so be it. I would rather focus on enjoying the time I have than worrying about something completely beyond my control.

 

Robert, I agree with your post. I could have written it all myself, except that I haven't yet escaped the fear of hell. It feels wonderful to be free of the guilt and feeling trapped. I believe I continued in church due to fear of hell, not because I wanted to be there. Life is so much less stressful since I walked away from it.

[jba10582]

Different religions and their practices are very fascinating and the various sects break off within each religion has slightly different beliefs and certain sects of a religion can reject certain ideas and yet practice a lot of the same thing in others even when there are parallels between all religions. Someone can probably spend a lifetime on this stuff and probably still have things to learn getting lost in the minutia of details is something I am avoiding and slowly finding the time trying to understand more about the major religions through a broader perspective is intriguing.

[bippy123]

Robert, I agree with your post. I could have written it all myself, except that I haven't yet escaped the fear of hell. It feels wonderful to be free of the guilt and feeling trapped. I believe I continued in church due to fear of hell, not because I wanted to be there. Life is so much less stressful since I walked away from it.

 

Angel, I once had an online discussion with someone who was raised in a similar situation as you. It was the same fear of hell and the fire and brimestone that was preached into him, and he eventually left Christianity and became an atheist. We had a long and very good discussion on the shroud of turin, which I have studied for 5 years. I believe he is now an agnostic after looking into the information on the shroud. its very compelling and extremely strong in the evidences for its authenticity. So hes an agnostic with future possibilities .

 

I am a catholic myself and there was an old saying that my old bible study teacher (extremely smart guy with 2 phd's in Math and mechanical engineering) told me that imprinted itself in my head since he said.

 

He told us that atrition is the beginning road to contrition. Which means that a healthy fear of God will eventually make you want to get to know God better, and when you do you will see that you have nothing to fear and that is when you start to love God more and more each day.

 

The reason that fire and brimestone preaching doesnt work is that it doesnt bring out the gospel message of God, it only brings out the legalistic fear. It essentially turns us in robots who are doing the right thing out of fear and not out of love and because it is the right thing to do.

 

Just maybe, youve been taught the wrong thing about what Christianity truely represents. Love is the true message of Christianity not fear.

 

Plus im an inclusivist. Inclusivists believe if a person never had a chance to hear the gospel or hear it correctly that will not be held against him and he or she can still be saved if they respond properly to the appropriate light that has been given to them.

 

Getting back to the shroud I think you will find it fascinating as it is one of the most scientifically studied objects on earth as even 21st century science cannot replicate all of the unique characteristics of that image.

 

HEre are a few good videos to look into about it

 

 

andone of the best shroud of turin blogs online that goes back up to 10 years.

 

The Shroud of Turin

 

Mark Antonacci was a happy go lucky agnostic laywer with a Christian Girlfriend. He had everything in life. Only problem is that he and his girlfriend started to get into more and more arguments over religion. He decided he had enough and set out to prove to her once and for all that Christianity was nothing but a made up myth.

 

He picked the shroud of turin first to debunk and then after he would easily debunk it in a few weeks would work his way down from there to other areas of Christianity.

 

What he thought would last a few weeks ended up lasting more then 20 years and at teh end of those years not only couldnt he debunk the shroud but he actually converted to Christianity himself from his research into the shroud.

 

This is his website

 

HOME

 

I know ive given you alot to digest but this might show you another side of Christianity, not the one youve been brought up in through fear

[Sidz]

I am glad to know you're not forming your beliefs due to an appeal based on fear, angelcake. I'm in a similar situation. I recently had to quit my job as a church worship leader of all things, due to being convinced by others and myself that there was no good reason to believe that Christian claims are true. I feel very relieved to be able to be completely honest and true to myself. My upbringing and background in the church is not so fear-mongering as yours, but I think churches in general make it taboo to even express cognitive dissonance, and much more so to keep tugging on that thread after apologetic answers are put forth. I suppose this is because of the religious notion of faith, which is very appealing to we humans who desire oneness, harmony, and to be able to have an unassailable foundation for moral belief in order to cope with the very unpleasant things about being human. I have some skepticism that these things are even available to us.

 

My biggest issue, and relating to the appeal to fear, is that this very appeal to fear is central to Christianity and attributed directly to Jesus who says if we deny him he will deny us before God. It would be no big leap to take this to mean you either believe that Jesus died for the sins of all past, present and future humans or you go to a horrible place. This seems insidious to me.

[umirano]

I'm happy for you angelcake, and I offer you my deepest sympathy wrt the mental torment your religious upbringing put you through.

 

Don't fear the questioning. I encourage you to study the scientific explanations for our existence and of the form and state of the universe. They are calming and peaceful more than any religious creation myth.

 

Obviously there cannot be a christian god. He is either allmighty but evil, all-loving but powerless or he doesn't exist. The bible isn't a proof of it's own truth. It's a book full of inconsistencies and myths, many of which are copied from previous myths.

 

It doesn't hold any useful moral advice that we could not figure out independently, as we need our own moral sense to decide which parts of the bible to respect, and which parts better to ignore (like, say killing gay fellow humans, or non-virgin brides).

 

It certainly doesn't hold any logical and consistent scientific facts about our existence and environment. Quite to the contrary, it holds a lot of crazy lies about biology, physics, geography and astronomy that got a lot of honest observers and scientits killed over the past 20 centuries.

 

All this criticism applies exactly in the same manner to any other religion. We can safely assume that no form of theism is truthful and in any way helping our co-existence as humans on this planet. Au contraire, religion balkanizes humanity into separate 'moral' communities and drives violence among us. It is not helping neither the moral nor the scientific problems we're facing. It is a blanket licence to kill conversation (i.e. to have one single non-disputable truth handed down by god and not to be criticized). It is evil. It poisons the conversation among humans, it's an excuse not to think and to be honest with one another.

 

Was there a creator who created the universe and then went away and let us exist on our own? Not interfering anymore and caring about children dying of blown of limbs in mine fields or terrible infections such as typhus, even though their parents ceaselessly pray? I doubt it, our world and the universe, even our own existence can be explained without invoking a deity that created us just fine.

 

There is no reason for you, your son, his friends or anyone else in this beautiful universe to fear any god.

[crederer]

I feel most people are born into their religions rather than choosing them. I was raised catholic but i remember even at a very young age thinking it was total BS. I never really believed any of it and only went with it because I was young and there was a lot of pressure to conform. It wasn't until my late teens where I realized it's okay for me to not believe this stuff and it doesn't make me a bad person for doing so.

[angelcake]

Thank you so much for the replies. Bippy, I will take a look at those links you provided. Sidz, exactly...you hit the nail on the head. Deny Jesus, and he will deny you, and you will go to hell. It's crazy when you think about it.

 

Umirano, your statement

"Obviously there cannot be a christian god. He is either allmighty but evil, all-loving but powerless or he doesn't exist."....funny you should say that. I just told my bf that to me it seems God is narcissistic ...."you either do what i say and believe in me,or I will send you to hell for all of eternity." I just cannot wrap my head around that.

 

More and more I feel that religion causes more hurt, anguish, and anger than it brings happiness and peace.

[angelcake]

I feel most people are born into their religions rather than choosing them. I was raised catholic but i remember even at a very young age thinking it was total BS. I never really believed any of it and only went with it because I was young and there was a lot of pressure to conform. It wasn't until my late teens where I realized it's okay for me to not believe this stuff and it doesn't make me a bad person for doing so.

 

It doesn't make you a bad person at all. People can be very moral but not religious. They can also be religious and evil. In fact, a lot of church leaders are sociopaths. They love to deceive and have power over others. Not saying they all are, but a good number are. I'm glad you found peace in your decision and I'm hoping to find that peace one day as well. Right now I have an open mind but more and more I scoff at religion, esp as it was presented to me.

[umirano]

Umirano, your statement

"Obviously there cannot be a christian god. He is either allmighty but evil, all-loving but powerless or he doesn't exist."....funny you should say that. I just told my bf that to me it seems God is narcissistic ...."you either do what i say and believe in me,or I will send you to hell for all of eternity." I just cannot wrap my head around that.

 

The good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly in our world can be explained very well without a god. How agreeable an experience our existence is solely depends on how we treat each other, and on how we interact with the one beautiful universe we live in. An asteroid could strike the earth and lead to a catastrophy like it did in the past. But that is not an act of god, nor is it an act of god when an asteroid misses the earth by a hundred thousand miles. It's just the world we live in. Asteroids carried water ice to this planet and allowed for wonderful oceans to fill up, and of course they killed many species. It has nothing to do with actual or percieved sins that need redemption. Similarly all the other proclaimed mechanisms of deities setting us straight are simple phenomena of the nature of our universe.

 

Isn't it ironic, how the most desperate, poor and religious communities get striked by the most devastating natural disasters? I saw a documentary on the Kathrina aftermath. Many of the (admittedly surviving) victims praised god for saving them. Religion is a method to trick people into thinking they have it good, when actually they're being harmed by their god. I'm fairly certain that any area in central europe is less religious than the philippines. Hell, we have legalized gay marriage and prostitution. Why are the god fearing and praying masses of south east asia tested year after year? I say anyone who prays knows it's not working.

 

Of course there are sins that need redemption. But it's us, our sense of family, of society and man made laws that dictate how that goes down. Hoping for an afterlife is an excuse not to act on injustice, not to act on current suffering. And it's a tool to scare children into conforming to stone-age religion that has little to nothing to do with today's world. It's a sweet poison to push 'making it fair' off to later or to mentally torture people who don't want to submit to brutal and angry morals.

[mukkrakker]

...walking with God means...

 

I do not "believe" [in fact I'm rabidly anti, but you'd never notice!], nevertheless, there is no reason why your "walking with God" can't mean being the best person you can. Take solace in being a good person (whatever your definition of that maybe).

 

 

Some great replies on this thread!

[umirano]

More and more I feel that religion causes more hurt, anguish, and anger than it brings happiness and peace.

 

There are two ways of talking about religion. We can talk about whether it is useful or whether it is true.

 

I think it's fairly easy to see that some religious teachings are useful, like say don't steal, don't kill. But those are

 

 

1. Simple insights that the first self aware humans knew without any religion being around. Even in the bible those laws come long after humans were 'created'.
   
2. Those teachings don't apply universally. Most people would agree that fairly often in human history, deviating from the don't kill rule prevented more suffering, think Qadaffi or assassinated warlords.
   

So while religion may be useful, it surely isn't the only way of obtaining useful habits or rules. And to balance the discussion we all should also discuss its damaging aspects. We do it all the time. We discuss the usefulness along with the potential damage of genetically modified food, of air traffic, of legalizing marijuana, of breast cancer screenings and moon expeditions.

 

But personally, since religion is not necessary to improve our lives and those of all humans, I find the discussion of truth more relevant. It seems to me, even though religion faces serious, in fact undeniable challenges to its truth claims, that this never really bothers the religious community. I cannot prove a universal negative, i.e. that there is no god. But paying attention to the religious conversation and throwing out everything that simply is hot air, what are we left with? No more than a superman comic or lord of the rings. A more or less fancy tale with sometimes literary qualities.

[angelcake]

Umirano, thank you for the "calm" that you bring to all of this confusion . You are a very literal thinker. I feel that some people are just not able to "look outside the box". Their religion is so ingrained in them that they aren't of a mindset to even question it. As a child, when I would question my Mother why God let babies be born with defects, and where did God come from...my mother would always say "just ask God when you get to meet him". And to this day, she couldn't fathom the thought that her religion is bogus.

 

I do not discuss this with others who believe. Most of my family and friends would be appalled to know I've became agnostic. So, I am thankful to all of those who have replied to me.

 

I still relish how wonderful it feels to be free of that burden of trying to be a devout Christian. And funny enough, I feel I am a much better person now. I used to have outbursts and emotional breakdowns; now all that is gone. My Bf asked me today if I would ever go back to religion, and I told him that I am not capable of taking that on, and would buckle under the pressure. Freedom feels wonderful!

[pie2]

I haven't fully convinced myself yet that there isn't a God. Sometimes I will find myself saying a little prayer about something....I still fear hell, though.

 

 

You say that you're unsure about the existence (or not) of God. But you fear hell. How do you define being an agnostic? What does it mean to you?

 

 

As a child, when I would question my Mother why God let babies be born with defects, and where did God come from...my mother would always say "just ask God when you get to meet him".

 

 

How would you respond if your child asked you those questions today?

 

 

My son is 16 and is agnostic. He says all of his friends except one are also agnostic or atheist. He says belief in God is going away with each generation. I hope I did not do him a disservice by not taking him to church more...

 

 

If you're secure in your decision to walk away from God, why are you questioning your rate of church attendance with your son? Why would you now think you did him a disservice? Wouldn't you rather be thankful that you didn't spend one extra second wasting your time on such matters?

[mukkrakker]

There are two ways of talking about religion. We can talk about whether it is useful or whether it is true..

 

And let's not forget about it's evolutionary component.

It would have been advantageous for a large group of people to form a bond which extended beyond familial relationships, hence the evolution of the supernatural realm, a by-product of language and existential thought.

[MyEvilTwin]

I think it was standard practice for my Christian church to be "confirmed" at the age of 13. I did so because I was expected to, but I already knew I was just going through the motions in order to do as expected.

I had already decided that it was all far too sketchy. Too much we're the good guys, everybody else is wrong, and by 13 I had already asked myself the question--What about the babies born in China or Russia or India or wherever, that were either raised in some other religion or none at all?

That little babies were going to go to Hell at that point became comical for me. I was what, just so lucky to have been born to the right parents in the right place and time and those other children, well too bad, they were unlucky? Think about that! We're all simply raised to believe whatever our parents believed.

I see no reason to fear the man-made up "Hell".

Christianity is fear based. You either do as they say, or you are going to go to Hell. Yeah, right. It's bunk!

I look at life this way--worry about what you are doing here on earth while alive. Are you moral here? fair? loving? judgmental? Giving? How's your conscience and are you following the golden rule?

Don't worry about when you're going to one day be dead. Whatever for?

If there's an after-life at all, that time and place will take care of itself.

There is heaven and hell right here on earth. Deal with those, no need to worry about ones in the afterlife that may or may not exist, and more than likely, not.

People are very judgmental creatures, and they make up very lively stories.

I personally believe that people who hold tightly onto religion are very afraid. I know that there are many ways that their beliefs are reinforced by attending church, reading religious books, their family, and whatnot. But beliefs being reinforced does not make beliefs true. And I see no point in worrying all through one's life about what is going to happen after it is over. Oddly enough, those that worry about it the most, to me, appear to also be the most judgmental and insecure, and have some strong need to raise themselves above others.

Edited February 12, 2014 by MyEvilTwin

[M30USA]

What about the babies born in China or Russia or India or wherever, that were either raised in some other religion or none at all?

That little babies were going to go to Hell at that point became comical for me. I was what, just so lucky to have been born to the right parents in the right place and time and those other children, well too bad, they were unlucky? Think about that! We're all simply raised to believe whatever our parents believed.

 

 

You bring up a great point. This is why you should read Scripture and learn the difference between what is man-made teaching versus what is actually written down in Scripture from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You'll find all kinds of false teaching in the church which has no Scriptural basis.

 

 

I see no reason to fear the man-made up "Hell".

Christianity is fear based. You either do as they say, or you are going to go to Hell. Yeah, right. It's bunk!

 

 

Hell, unfortunately, is one of the Biblical doctrines. But I wouldn't say it's based on fear. It's based on the fact that God is holy and has stated that the soul who sins MUST die. If he doesn't send unrepentant sinners (who are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ) to hell, then God has made himself into a liar. And he will not be a liar.

 

 

Another thing I'd like to add is that the idea of hell predates organized religion. So that eliminates the idea that it was created by church leaders to control the masses.

 

 

Why would I look at life this way--worry about what you doing here on earth while alive. Are you moral here? fair? loving? judgmental? Giving? How's your conscience and are you following the golden rule?

 

 

These things are all very important. But the question comes down to WHOSE standard are you using? Man's or God's? If you are using man's standard, then it's very easy to be a good person. Just compare yourself to criminals. But if you're using God's standard, then nothing we think matters and only what he says matters. God's standard is Jesus Christ. Jesus is the ONLY person to whom God the Father ever said that he is "pleased". Nobody else has gotten God to say this.

 

 

I personally believe that people who hold tightly onto religion are very afraid.

 

 

 

This sounds reasonable on the surface, but it fails to explain why someone who is already afraid would want to believe such bad things about themselves such as the fact that they are a hopeless and radical sinner. Wouldn't a person in fear want to believe they are wonderful and okay the way they are?

[MyEvilTwin]

You bring up a great point. This is why you should read Scripture and learn the difference between what is man-made teaching versus what is actually written down in Scripture from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You'll find all kinds of false teaching in the church which has no Scriptural basis.

 

 

It is not teaching that is not in the bible. The bible states clearly enough that those who do not believe are not saved, obviously. I can quote you a load of scripture if you'd like on non-believers. I assume you know them though.

 

Hell, unfortunately, is one of the Biblical doctrines. But I wouldn't say it's based on fear. It's based on the fact that God is holy and has stated that the soul who sins MUST die. If he doesn't send unrepentant sinners (who are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ) to hell, then God has made himself into a liar. And he will not be a liar.

 

 

The very concept of Hell is meant to make one decide to be a believer. That to me is the ultimate manipulation. I can see right through it. Completely man created by a vivid imagination.

The "fact" that god is holy? What if you believe as me, that there is zero fact in that at all, and that a bunch of old curmudgeon men got together and wrote a lovely book based in fear in order to control people?

Anyway, everybody is a "sinner" supposedly. And the only way to not go to hell is to repent, become Christian. Leaves only one choice, doesn't it? Whenever mankind on this planet tells me how I MUST think, in order to succeed at their game, and that there is only one winning game in town, I know I'm being manipulated.

Another thing I'd like to add is that the idea of hell predates organized religion. So that eliminates the idea that it was created by church leaders to control the masses.

Many things in the bible and most every religion was borrowed and predates the use. Still doesn't mean that it isn't fear based to control the masses. That it may predate Christianity doesn't negate its purpose. Christianity has incorporated the customs and beliefs of all new areas as it has spread into them. This is absolutely necessary actually, because people find accepting new beliefs difficult and will reject them, if they do not also keep some comforting beliefs that they already practice.

 

 

These things are all very important. But the question comes down to WHOSE standard are you using? Man's or God's? If you are using man's standard, then it's very easy to be a good person. Just compare yourself to criminals. But if you're using God's standard, then nothing we think matters and only what he says matters. God's standard is Jesus Christ. Jesus is the ONLY person to whom God the Father ever said that he is "pleased". Nobody else has gotten God to say this.

 

 

Yes but you assume that I agree to share this concept that the bible was written by god. I don't. I believe it was written by some men, and was their standard at the time.

I don't need to compare myself to criminals. My standard is the golden rule. I don't need guidance from either extreme, I can think for myself what would best aid mankind to be on a level respect playing field with complete acceptance and tolerance of diversity.

This sounds reasonable on the surface, but it fails to explain why someone who is already afraid would want to believe such bad things about themselves such as the fact that they are a hopeless and radical sinner. Wouldn't a person in fear want to believe they are wonderful and okay the way they are?

 

 

On this last one...it's a complete indoctrination, you must join the club. First, the fear is taught. Non-believers are not saved, hence, one must become a believer and be saved, repent, and their sins are washed away.

Then there is nothing to fear anymore right? One's sins are washed away by Christ. The path to heaven is then laid.

Christians are taught they are a hopeless sinner. But they can be saved from themselves.

True enough that if you don't buy into what you are told by Christianity, then you don't have to worry about this hopeless and radical sinner stuff, because you're not buying it in the first place.

That, does not negate the work that non Christians may do to better themselves as people, in the ways that they decide to pursue growth. Many people who are not Christian do want to better themselves. Only complete psychopaths and extreme narcissists believe there is no room for improvement or that they are "wonderful and okay the way they are". The thing is, Christianity does not have a monopoly on self-improvement, nor on fairness, or many other conditions of humanity. Christianity didn't create good will, and it's not the only path to it.

Edited February 12, 2014 by MyEvilTwin

[angelcake]

You say that you're unsure about the existence (or not) of God. But you fear hell. How do you define being an agnostic? What does it mean to you?

 

I define being agnostic as someone who is undecided as to whether there is a higher power, a God, or not. I believe it can't be proven nor unproven.

 

 

 

 

How would you respond if your child asked you those questions today?

I would explain both sides and let my child decide whether to pursue it or not. I wouldn't force my child to believe, nor expose them to measures to scare them into Christianity.

 

 

 

 

 

If you're secure in your decision to walk away from God, why are you questioning your rate of church attendance with your son? Why would you now think you did him a disservice? Wouldn't you rather be thankful that you didn't spend one extra second wasting your time on such matters?

I never said I was secure in my decision. I said I still question things. It is hard not to, when that is what I was taught for 18+ years. But, my logical side also tells me there is another answer out there, and It feels great to not let a fear of God weigh me down continuously. Yes I am very thankful I haven't subjected my children to such measures, and the more I read and reflect upon things, the more I feel secure in walking away. It's a process.

[Confused48]

My story has many similarities to yours. I was raised in a more traditional christian setting but it was pretty intensive. Our family went to church EVERY Sunday. And Sunday school. And parochial school.

 

The church we attended was not the same denomination as the school. So that allowed me to question both. In Sunday school I would argue the minor differences between the two by taking the position of the day school. In day school of course I'd take the position of the church we attended on Sunday. Great fun. It lead me to become an attorney later in life.

 

I questioned both denominations in my mind though from a very early age. I went to college and studied religion objectively. I still clung to my faith though. After all we were taught, like you, that you just believe and if you don't, you go to hell. Stuff kept not adding up for me though like for you and other posters on this thread. Like why does everything alive have to kill to survive? What kind of god would create a world like that?

 

I started thinking about the story in Revelations where the Arch Angel is thrown out of heaven in a battle. Separated from "god." I thought, maybe that was the real god and we are separated from him now by the evil god? Maybe the bible is the propaganda tool of the victor and we don't know the real story? Maybe this life IS hell?!

 

Eventually I realized it was all based on faith in things that could not be verified. I was / am draw to the Buddhist idea that you don't need to take anything on faith. Verify everything or don't believe it.

 

I don't claim to know that there is, or is not, a god or any kind of higher power or group connection of beings. I think there very may well be but I don't know. I don't trust anyone that claims to know for sure about an afterlife. I do trust and honor people that choose to live life based on faith but say they don't know, other than by faith. I think that is a valid choice. Its just not for me.

[Annie767]

Very common for Christians to question their faith and beliefs. I myself am currently in a low spot - and thinking more along the lines of Deism. I am struggle with concepts such as predetermination and God being involved in all things that happen to me and for me.

 

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

But your entire exposure to Christianity is based on the Pentecostal Church ?, which is a rather specific and perhaps narrow view. I would encourage you in your journey to perhaps explore a few other different churches and denominations and views they have.

 

For example, I am not Catholic, but I do believe the current Pope is inspirational.

 

 

 

I did a philosophy course at 18.

One of my proposed essays was: Can Gods omnipotence be reconciled with human free will.

I researched it All with an open mind......and it completely changed my life!

[pie2]

I never said I was secure in my decision. I said I still question things. It is hard not to, when that is what I was taught for 18+ years. But, my logical side also tells me there is another answer out there, and It feels great to not let a fear of God weigh me down continuously. Yes I am very thankful I haven't subjected my children to such measures, and the more I read and reflect upon things, the more I feel secure in walking away. It's a process.

 

 

 

Hope you find clarity in your decision.

 

 

Questioning our beliefs and holding them up to the light to test their validity is productive, imo. I hope you continue to search for the truth. Being weighed down by a fear of God isn't the truth I've come to learn about God and his love.