BS as "innocent victim"

January 22, 2014

So I see this all the time on LS. BS always portrayed as the innocent victim. It is like an automatic given. Spouse cheated. Poor H/W. End of analysis. Well what about all of the sins leading up to the WS's A. What about years or even decades of lies, narcissism, emotional abuse or physical neglect? Why is BS miraculously baptized in the wake of infidelity? Not only does it seem like they get a free pass from the past, but moving forward are absolved from any further wrongdoings because WS will NEVER be right or worthy in their eyes again. If they ever were to begin with.

January 22, 2014

No those kind of sweeping statements are not made on LS.

The WS is 100% responsible for choosing to have an affair but it is recognised by many that there may be problems within the marriage and that the BS can be just as responsibile for those as the WS.

I also see plenty of posts from BS telling WS that they should not just tolerate anything and everything the BS does after dday.

January 22, 2014

So I see this all the time on LS. BS always portrayed as the innocent victim. It is like an automatic given. Spouse cheated. Poor H/W. End of analysis. Well what about all of the sins leading up to the WS's A. What about years or even decades of lies, narcissism, emotional abuse or physical neglect? Why is BS miraculously baptized in the wake of infidelity? Not only does it seem like they get a free pass from the past, but moving forward are absolved from any further wrongdoings because WS will NEVER be right or worthy in their eyes again. If they ever were to begin with.

No those kind of sweeping statements are not made on LS.

The WS is 100% responsible for choosing to have an affair but it is recognised by many that there may be problems within the marriage and that the BS can be just as responsibile for those as the WS.

I also see plenty of posts from BS telling WS that they should not just tolerate anything and everything the BS does after dday.

I agree 100% with Anne. It looks more to me as if you instead assume, that the BS must have done something to deserve the betrayal and can't be innocent.

And if you think that being cheated on feels like having a free pass, well I guess you haven't really tried it?

January 22, 2014

Happens all the time. I see BS's say "They chose to cheat, that's totally on them. Whatever I did, that doesn't give them the right to cheat". And it's true... to a point.

It IS true that cheating is all on the cheater. But the aspects that led up to it are on both parties as it is their marriage that has unraveled. There's no reason in discussing it here, really, because nobody will change their mind on the issue. Basic accepted bullsh*t that comes from here are as follows: WS's have some sort of 'inbuilt flaw', the OW has low self esteem and accepts breadcrumbs, the BS once in a while will agree their marriage was not perfect, but it is not their fault WS cheated so WS will have to spend the rest of his life doing "anything and everything" the BS says to make it right, because, don't you know, cheating is worse than anything, including murder. I see it all the time, "I was blindsided" "Our marriage was great". Yeah, FOR THE BS. Clearly it wasn't for the WS, or he wouldn't have cheated. So yeah, generally how it goes. Frankly I think you nip it in the bud and when your marriage goes to shizz, you just leave. \

Good luck with this thread.

January 22, 2014

I, for one, was completely thrilled that my husband cheated.

I now could win every argument.

It made me feel so much better about myself to be proven right about everything.

My credit card balance is running a little higher than I would like to talk about with him so I have been leaving these little "hints" that our neighbour has been checking him out.

Things should take care of themselves.

I'll be back to being "the sainted one" in no time. Yay.

:rolleyes:

January 22, 2014

Do I hear an echo in here??

I could have sworn we have had to deal with this subject from OPs a few times....

And for the sake of argument how do you KNOW that every BS has been guilty of all the things you accuse them of? And if there were what 'crimes' were the WS guilty of in turn? or do you beleive that every WS is an innocent victim of a wicked BS until they have the courage to strike a blow for freedom and justice? Nothing is that simple. Nothing.

January 22, 2014

Happens all the time. I see BS's say "They chose to cheat, that's totally on them. Whatever I did, that doesn't give them the right to cheat". And it's true... to a point.

It IS true that cheating is all on the cheater. But the aspects that led up to it are on both parties as it is their marriage that has unraveled. There's no reason in discussing it here, really, because nobody will change their mind on the issue. Basic accepted bullsh*t that comes from here are as follows: WS's have some sort of 'inbuilt flaw', the OW has low self esteem and accepts breadcrumbs, the BS once in a while will agree their marriage was not perfect, but it is not their fault WS cheated so WS will have to spend the rest of his life doing "anything and everything" the BS says to make it right, because, don't you know, cheating is worse than anything, including murder. I see it all the time, "I was blindsided" "Our marriage was great". Yeah, FOR THE BS. Clearly it wasn't for the WS, or he wouldn't have cheated. So yeah, generally how it goes. Frankly I think you nip it in the bud and when your marriage goes to shizz, you just leave. \

Good luck with this thread.

As a fWS who came to LS immediately after dday, I have to say my experience of LS is very, very different to yours.

January 22, 2014

I was really glad that my exWH cheated, as it gave me the best reason in the world to kick his scrawny @r$e into touch and start a life that did something for me and my self-development, instead of being an unpaid skivvy for the selfish bum.

Now many years down the line I am re-married to a wonderful man.

January 22, 2014

So I see this all the time on LS. BS always portrayed as the innocent victim. It is like an automatic given. Spouse cheated. Poor H/W. End of analysis. Well what about all of the sins leading up to the WS's A. What about years or even decades of lies, narcissism, emotional abuse or physical neglect? Why is BS miraculously baptized in the wake of infidelity? Not only does it seem like they get a free pass from the past, but moving forward are absolved from any further wrongdoings because WS will NEVER be right or worthy in their eyes again. If they ever were to begin with.

People make choices and a WS chooses all on his/her own to go ahead and cheat. Why not just divorce? Why not speak up, try to fix things? know why not? Because most WS don't communicate well and they'd rather go elsewhere and find happiness than stay and fix things or divorce.

You're taking this to the extreme. And generalizing.

Each person is responsible for problems in the marriage, but a WS who cheats, that's all on them.

January 22, 2014

Happens all the time. I see BS's say "They chose to cheat, that's totally on them. Whatever I did, that doesn't give them the right to cheat". And it's true... to a point.

It IS true that cheating is all on the cheater. But the aspects that led up to it are on both parties as it is their marriage that has unraveled. There's no reason in discussing it here, really, because nobody will change their mind on the issue. Basic accepted bullsh*t that comes from here are as follows: WS's have some sort of 'inbuilt flaw', the OW has low self esteem and accepts breadcrumbs, the BS once in a while will agree their marriage was not perfect, but it is not their fault WS cheated so WS will have to spend the rest of his life doing "anything and everything" the BS says to make it right, because, don't you know, cheating is worse than anything, including murder. I see it all the time, "I was blindsided" "Our marriage was great". Yeah, FOR THE BS. Clearly it wasn't for the WS, or he wouldn't have cheated. So yeah, generally how it goes. Frankly I think you nip it in the bud and when your marriage goes to shizz, you just leave. \

Good luck with this thread.

So why didn't the WS speak up, loudly? Why sneak off and cheat? if they are so miserable, where's the I'm leaving and divorce talk? And I'll add in, even after the WS cheats, most times, he/she stays in the marriage after Dday. Maybe not in your case obviously, but most of the threads I see here, WS is miserable, cheats, but then stays and never leaves to be with his OW full time.

I agree, if one person is really done and wants out, they should leave.

January 22, 2014

There was a similar thread to this one very recently -

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/455117-no-one-ever-tells-you

January 22, 2014

Happens all the time. I see BS's say "They chose to cheat, that's totally on them. Whatever I did, that doesn't give them the right to cheat". And it's true... to a point.

It IS true that cheating is all on the cheater. But the aspects that led up to it are on both parties as it is their marriage that has unraveled. There's no reason in discussing it here, really, because nobody will change their mind on the issue. Basic accepted bullsh*t that comes from here are as follows: WS's have some sort of 'inbuilt flaw', the OW has low self esteem and accepts breadcrumbs, the BS once in a while will agree their marriage was not perfect, but it is not their fault WS cheated so WS will have to spend the rest of his life doing "anything and everything" the BS says to make it right, because, don't you know, cheating is worse than anything, including murder. I see it all the time, "I was blindsided" "Our marriage was great". Yeah, FOR THE BS. Clearly it wasn't for the WS, or he wouldn't have cheated. So yeah, generally how it goes. Frankly I think you nip it in the bud and when your marriage goes to shizz, you just leave. \

Good luck with this thread.

Quote from my WW regarding how SHE felt about our marriage when she first met OM around the time of our 2nd wedding anniversary:

"It seemed like we had the perfect life together. But that is when it all began."

"We both felt like we were still on the honeymoon."

I was a good husband. I was a victim. I was blindsided.

Whatever problems my wife saw in our marriage, I was not privy to that information.

Sometimes the BS is portrayed as an innocent victim because they are just that.

My wife's affair doesn't define her, but discovering her affair was a life-defining moment for me.

January 22, 2014

People make choices and a WS chooses all on his/her own to go ahead and cheat. Why not just divorce? Why not speak up, try to fix things? know why not? Because most WS don't communicate well and they'd rather go elsewhere and find happiness than stay and fix things or divorce.

You're taking this to the extreme. And generalizing.

Each person is responsible for problems in the marriage, but a WS who cheats, that's all on them.

Every time I see a thread/post like this it's like this chant with a drum-beat in the background where the WS/AP are saying "you were just as bad, just as bad, just as bad......."

But honestly, plenty of us simply weren't.

And so many WS pop up on here saying. "I don't want my spouse to leave. They weren't a bad spouse. We just have to work on xyz and now they won't even listen to me and bring up the affair."

Well, yeah. You're answer to "should we fix this car or buy a new one?" Was "Let's drop a bomb on it and see what happens after the whole neighbourhood is destroyed."

Then as emergency crews are pulling up on the scene and the spouse is trying to salvage what they can from the burning rubble, WS starts grumbling about how they "would've preferred a Toyota and how come we can't talk about this now?"

January 22, 2014

Thanks for your reply, Goodyblue. You are brave!

Of course I knew this thread would not meet a warm reception. And that is fair. But who is the authority on which party hurts most, suffers longest or offends the worst? Isn't it more personal than universal which sins are more damning than others?

I am just a PERSON, not an event or an action, same as everyone else here, with a heart and feelings, trying to navigate the muddy waters of a dysfunctional relationship (pre and post infidelity).

January 22, 2014

I will admit, that whether cheating or other problems here - we often get a one sided view from who is posting here. I have seen posts from BS only to find out later they cheated at one point as well or were terrible spouse .

It is very true that a BS may have been equal or worse in creating an unhealthy marriage. Won't get into the old debate this excuses or creates cheating - only that if a BS was contributing to an healthy marriage then yes they need to own that - and not avoid it after dDay - but it is separate "crime" from cheating and each needs to own and accept their unhealthy behavior and the damage it caused.

January 22, 2014

Thanks for your reply, Goodyblue. You are brave!

Of course I knew this thread would not meet a warm reception. And that is fair. But who is the authority on which party hurts most, suffers longest or offends the worst? Isn't it more personal than universal which sins are more damning than others?

I am just a PERSON, not an event or an action, same as everyone else here, with a heart and feelings, trying to navigate the muddy waters of a dysfunctional relationship (pre and post infidelity).

I don't find it brave that a person discourages other posters from having a discussion and speaking their mind openly because of their own personal experience on LS over and over again.

January 22, 2014

But who is the authority on which party hurts most, suffers longest or offends the worst? Isn't it more personal than universal which sins are more damning than others?

I am just a PERSON, not an event or an action, same as everyone else here, with a heart and feelings, trying to navigate the muddy waters of a dysfunctional relationship (pre and post infidelity).

You have a point, but maybe this should have been your original post, instead of what appears to be a blame game on BS's.

January 22, 2014

Thanks for your reply, Goodyblue. You are brave!

Of course I knew this thread would not meet a warm reception. And that is fair. But who is the authority on which party hurts most, suffers longest or offends the worst? Isn't it more personal than universal which sins are more damning than others?

I am just a PERSON, not an event or an action, same as everyone else here, with a heart and feelings, trying to navigate the muddy waters of a dysfunctional relationship (pre and post infidelity).

Which is harder to live with? Being cheated on and betrayed by the one person who you entrusted to protect/love your heart. Or the spouse who broke your spouse/marriage by sleeping around behind their back?

I know that my wife had to live with her shame and guilt for years! A heavy burden for sure. I'm living with my hurts and burdens. Which one is worst?

For me the key difference is this: Choice/Control

I was served a sh2t sandwich with zero say in the matter. There was no way around it, I had to eat a Bigfoot sized sh2t sandwich. Served up by my wife. Not a stranger or acquaintance, but my wife.

The pain that my wife has suffered was her own doing. She had the choice not to suffer the pain, because she had the choice of not having an affair. During and after her affair, she had the knowledge of the truth. I did not not. She made disastrous decisions for BOTH of us without my knowledge nor consent.

Yes, my WW has suffered consequences for her actions, but she had a choice. I did not. To me, that is the difference.

January 22, 2014

Thanks for your reply, Goodyblue. You are brave!

Of course I knew this thread would not meet a warm reception. And that is fair. But who is the authority on which party hurts most, suffers longest or offends the worst? Isn't it more personal than universal which sins are more damning than others?

I am just a PERSON, not an event or an action, same as everyone else here, with a heart and feelings, trying to navigate the muddy waters of a dysfunctional relationship (pre and post infidelity).

This was a new one I haven't seen before - why do you think that betrayal and support of betrayal takes courage and bravery? And why do you have such a hard time believing that someone might cheat just because they want to and because they can? Because of issues within them selves?

I've heard my wife as well as other WS state, that they didn't really value what they had untill they realized that they were about to lose it, and then they started fighting for it.

January 22, 2014

I'll tell a secret here.

I wish it had been about my marriage, and not what was wrong with my spouse.

If it had been my marriage, I would have felt, in the aftermath, as if I had more power and strength to repair it. Because I would have had things I could change about myself.

I would have welcomed that. It would have given me a feeling of power. Some measure of control.

But it wasn't. It wasn't about me or my marriage. Affairs happen in good marriages, and they happen to betrayeds who knock themselves out for their spouses ( maybe too much so, which is an issue). Overbenefitted partners cheat. It's painful. It's awful. And the worst part of all? It isn't even personal.

So yeah, I would have welcomed being able to point at that marriage as the cause. It would have been easier.

January 22, 2014

It's not easy to tell someone you want a divorce. Trust me on that, I've been trying for over a year now. My husband begs for more chances, and pleads. He has changed a little, but the fact remains that for 10 years of our marriage I was always second best. Actually, not even second most times, dead last on his priority list.

He will manipulate me into waivering on my choices..making me question what I want and what's best for me. He uses the kids to guilt me into staying. He will say we cannot afford to be separated. He says I won't find anyone as great as him, or find anyone who will treat me as wonderful as he treats me.

With all that said...I find it irritating when people on here say "you should have just said you wanted a divorce or worked on your marriage"...I'm trying. It is not easy.

Still doesn't mean it's okay for me to cheat.... It's actually more of a reason not to, because if I did...anything and everything my husband ever did wouldn't matter, I'd be the a-hole for the rest of our lives. Even a ONS...I'd be the home wrecker..not the man who neglected my needs for over 10 years.

January 22, 2014

So why didn't the WS speak up, loudly? Why sneak off and cheat? if they are so miserable, where's the I'm leaving and divorce talk? And I'll add in, even after the WS cheats, most times, he/she stays in the marriage after Dday. Maybe not in your case obviously, but most of the threads I see here, WS is miserable, cheats, but then stays and never leaves to be with his OW full time.

I agree, if one person is really done and wants out, they should leave.

I wish I knew why WS didn't speak up. I think they just put their heads down and muddle through, thinking they are doing the right thing by keeping the nuclear family together. I know, they stay, and they bow down out of guilt. We see here all the time BS's talking about how their WS is doing EVERYTHING they ask, and still they are not happy.

There is a quote I like, it goes : :I am amazed at how many individuals mess up every new day with yesterday. They insist on bringing into today the failures of yesterday and in so doing, they pollute a potentially wonderful day. "I can't believe you did it, I don't think I'll ever forget it. You can't possibly know how much you hurt me. I don't know how you can sit there so smugly after you treated me this way. You ought to be crawling on your knees begging for forgiveness. I don't know if I can ever forgive you." These are not words of love but words of bitterness and resentment and revenge". -Gary Chapman

This is what a lot of us see from the posts on LS. NOT ALL OF THEM, but many. Until people learn to forgive, it will be hell forever. Someone posted just a couple of days ago about him thinking his wife cheated FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. And someone else saying they are still having trouble after THREE YEARS. Dear God. I don't know why ANYONE would do this to themselves. I'm sorry, I just don't. When I divorced, I moved on. I wasn't still having bad dreams, driving by old haunts and being sad, looking for their face in the crowd. I moved on because it was the healthiest thing to do. And as I moved on, I looked at my part in the failure of the marriage. I didn't just point fingers, which is what I see a lot of here.

Just my opinion. Don't worry, I know nobody will look at this and take in that quote, take it to heart and realize it would be best for them. They'll get defensive. It's really unfortunate because we all deserve to be happy. We can only be happy when we admit our failures and make them better.

January 22, 2014

I will admit, that whether cheating or other problems here - we often get a one sided view from who is posting here. I have seen posts from BS only to find out later they cheated at one point as well or were terrible spouse .

It is very true that a BS may have been equal or worse in creating an unhealthy marriage. Won't get into the old debate this excuses or creates cheating - only that if a BS was contributing to an healthy marriage then yes they need to own that - and not avoid it after dDay - but it is separate "crime" from cheating and each needs to own and accept their unhealthy behavior and the damage it caused.

In my case I was 100 to get us to the point where my STBXW decided to cheat, but she still had other choices. D being one. So, yes as a terrible spouse, at least for some time I know had I not done what I did we wouldn't be where we are today. I also will say that if I had married someone else the final outcome would be very different. Not all people will engage on revenge A's!

Many BS will say they will never lower themselves to the WS's level and even wile facing D they will not stray until D is final. To me that is honorable, especially after all I have learned. I don't think my W acted in an honorable way when she engaged in her own A. Of course I should not judge based on my own character flaws, but I compare to what other BS's say here and they are definitely on a higher plane than both my STBXW and me for that matter when it comes to the whole infidelity topic.

January 22, 2014

I wish I knew why WS didn't speak up. I think they just put their heads down and muddle through, thinking they are doing the right thing by keeping the nuclear family together. I know, they stay, and they bow down out of guilt. We see here all the time BS's talking about how their WS is doing EVERYTHING they ask, and still they are not happy.

There is a quote I like, it goes : :I am amazed at how many individuals mess up every new day with yesterday. They insist on bringing into today the failures of yesterday and in so doing, they pollute a potentially wonderful day. "I can't believe you did it, I don't think I'll ever forget it. You can't possibly know how much you hurt me. I don't know how you can sit there so smugly after you treated me this way. You ought to be crawling on your knees begging for forgiveness. I don't know if I can ever forgive you." These are not words of love but words of bitterness and resentment and revenge". -Gary Chapman

This is what a lot of us see from the posts on LS. NOT ALL OF THEM, but many. Until people learn to forgive, it will be hell forever. Someone posted just a couple of days ago about him thinking his wife cheated FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. And someone else saying they are still having trouble after THREE YEARS. Dear God. I don't know why ANYONE would do this to themselves. I'm sorry, I just don't. When I divorced, I moved on. I wasn't still having bad dreams, driving by old haunts and being sad, looking for their face in the crowd. I moved on because it was the healthiest thing to do. And as I moved on, I looked at my part in the failure of the marriage. I didn't just point fingers, which is what I see a lot of here.

Just my opinion. Don't worry, I know nobody will look at this and take in that quote, take it to heart and realize it would be best for them. They'll get defensive. It's really unfortunate because we all deserve to be happy. We can only be happy when we admit our failures and make them better.

I love this post.

January 22, 2014

There is where you make a mistake, anyone says a WS is the guilty of all the problems in the marriage, but having an affair is 100% on the WS. You have two decent options, either you work on saving your marriage or you divorce but having an affair solves nothing and is 100% the fault of the person that has the affair.

If any WS feel like a victim for any other wrong doing from their partners they just need to move on and leave their marriage... /end of the thread.

And to this I say, the lack of sex, lack of affection, lack of a connection should have been enough, and yes, they should have just left. And nobody ever stops to think that ONE PARTER is completely happy in the marriage, while the other slowly suffers and then gives up and takes and opportunity when it presents itself. Is it right? No. Does it happen? Bet your A** it does. Then, because they are so guilt riddled, they then stay to repair it. I mean clearly, something must be wrong with them! It's ALL their fault! All of the things that happened before were their fault also because they are messed up! No. Just no.

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BS as "innocent victim"

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