BS as "innocent victim"

[janedoe67]

In a high-percentage of cases it is the OVERBENEFITTING spouse that cheats.

 

I fully agree. I spent years giving and giving and giving and reading a mountain of books and thinking if I was just good enough.....

 

He was fine as long as I didn't bug him and there was no conflict.

 

And I asked, begged, tried to give space, tried to encourage even an inch's move toward...anything.

 

And then I just ran out....of everything.

 

And I made a horrible choice that WAS 100% my choice.

[Woggle]

Cheaters also have a habit of making their spouse look as awful as possible. They tend to rewrite marital history.

[HermioneG]

There is a connection.

 

In a high-percentage of cases it is the OVERBENEFITTING spouse that cheats.

 

As frustrating as it is to think about, I would probably have acquired a happier and more stable marriage if I concerned myself MUCH LESS with my spouse's needs.

 

Where did you read that?

 

I have read- repeatedly- it is the overbenefitted spouse that cheats, not the other way around.

 

Any information you could provide would be great. Thanks. I have never ever read anything that suggests what you said. I would be very interested to see the source material.

 

Dr. Shirley Glass - Psychology Today - NOT "Just Friends"

 

ETA: or do you mean the spouse who has been overbenefitted?

 

I think, upon reflection, I am reading you incorrectly. I think we actually agree.

Edited January 29, 2014 by HermioneG

[HermioneG]

I fully agree. I spent years giving and giving and giving and reading a mountain of books and thinking if I was just good enough.....

 

He was fine as long as I didn't bug him and there was no conflict.

 

And I asked, begged, tried to give space, tried to encourage even an inch's move toward...anything.

 

And then I just ran out....of everything.

 

And I made a horrible choice that WAS 100% my choice.

 

I don't think this is what she meant.

 

The research indicates the person giving the least is more likely to cheat.

 

I am sure she will correct me if I am wrong.

[AlwaysGrowing]

For me, the choice to cheat and issues that may/may not be in the relationship are two separate issues to be addressed.

 

For that matter, each issue that may/may not be in the relationship are separate from each other as well.

 

As another poster stated, their concern that they brought up, was trumped by their spouse about another issue. No resolution. Blameshifting at it's finest.

 

Then there are personal issues that can only be addressed by the one that has the issue. PA, CA...to name two common ones. Just as a BS can not make a WS address those issues neither can a WS make a BS address it.

 

If you are dealing with a PA, CA person, there can never be any true resolution to ANY issue/concern as that party is not approaching it with good faith, intent, acknowledgement. Status quo and/or retaliation is usually the outcome. Which only breeds more issues/resentment.

 

I believe we stay pupils of life/relationships our whole life and need to remember that we have much to learn and practice from our own experiences and others.

[HermioneG]

This is why I'm bewildered too - the notion that there is NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER between the state of the M and the infidelity. It boggles my mind.

 

Yeah. Me, too.

 

When I first started reading reputable psychological studies on it- I could not believe it.

 

It was frustrating- because I was initially looking for a silver bullet of protection against it ever happening again.

 

I mean- if it was about the marriage- then surely, if I twisted myself into a pretzel, I could affair proof my marriage for the future. Right?

 

Imagine my dismay when I learned infidelity isn't about the marriage or the betrayed spouse.

[dreamingoftigers]

I fully agree. I spent years giving and giving and giving and reading a mountain of books and thinking if I was just good enough.....

 

He was fine as long as I didn't bug him and there was no conflict.

 

And I asked, begged, tried to give space, tried to encourage even an inch's move toward...anything.

 

And then I just ran out....of everything.

 

And I made a horrible choice that WAS 100% my choice.

 

I have grown tired of Book Mountain as well.

 

I can see why some WS cheat because I can feel inside that it "wouldn't be a big deal to me or him if I cheated." And I have been "trying hard for years while he just sat back and laughed at me and berated me."

 

But the truth is. I don't want to go there.

It smacks of escapism and while it may *seem* easier to find outside affection, it makes everything ten times worse.

 

I think that I could find 10000 ways to rationalize it. But the truth is I would just be procrastinating the inevitable:

 

My marriage is not going to change one iota until I solidly put my foot down....again.

 

But this time it means quitting my long-distance job because it is getting us NOWHERE.

 

Any extra money I make, he spends or takes days off from his part-time job. I am tired of being used. And frankly, using someone else for my own personal comfort is not going to solve this.

 

What I need to use is my brain and get myself out of this draining, toxic, risky arrangement and not try to utilize a third-party to stabilize me emotionally so I can stay IN it.

 

Which is exactly what OW/OM provide. A way for the MM/MW to stay IN their marriage.

[Woggle]

Going by this logic I probably would have been more justified in cheating with my first marriage. She certainly gave me enough reasons but she was the one that did it and blamed me.

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't think this is what she meant.

 

The research indicates the person giving the least is more likely to cheat.

 

I am sure she will correct me if I am wrong.

 

You got it right.

 

But in Jane's case she sounds so much like a BS. And having had a bullcrap sexless marriage AND been cheated on, the hurts are pretty similar. The isolation/lonliness/rejection/damage to confidence.

 

I honestly believe that my husband would probably not care if I cheated aside from it being a loss of control or an insult to him.

Probably not even then.

Walking around with that is not an easy fix.

[HermioneG]

You got it right.

 

But in Jane's case she sounds so much like a BS. And having had a bullcrap sexless marriage AND been cheated on, the hurts are pretty similar. The isolation/lonliness/rejection/damage to confidence.

 

I honestly believe that my husband would probably not care if I cheated aside from it being a loss of control or an insult to him.

Probably not even then.

Walking around with that is not an easy fix.

 

I totally agree about Jane. I think that she had years of emotional injury.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Yeah. Me, too.

 

When I first started reading reputable psychological studies on it- I could not believe it.

 

It was frustrating- because I was initially looking for a silver bullet of protection against it ever happening again.

 

I mean- if it was about the marriage- then surely, if I twisted myself into a pretzel, I could affair proof my marriage for the future. Right?

 

Imagine my dismay when I learned infidelity isn't about the marriage or the betrayed spouse.

 

It is not only in regards to infidelity either.

 

There are FWS, that tried to fix something in the marriage that was not about the marriage or even them. Again, a PA or CA spouse. Being that it is a poor coping skill used by the other party how can someone else fix it?

 

We all like to think that if we are nice enough....good enough that we can invoke change in someone else. Sometimes we can......and sometimes we can not. We have to accept when it is not. As much as it might pain us or how much we want it to be. Learning to separate ourselves from the actions/choices of others is hard to do, especially those from a spouse/SO.

[HermioneG]

It is not only in regards to infidelity either.

 

There are FWS, that tried to fix something in the marriage that was not about the marriage or even them. Again, a PA or CA spouse. Being that it is a poor coping skill used by the other party how can someone else fix it?

 

We all like to think that if we are nice enough....good enough that we can invoke change in someone else. Sometimes we can......and sometimes we can not. We have to accept when it is not. As much as it might pain us or how much we want it to be. Learning to separate ourselves from the actions/choices of others is hard to do, especially those from a spouse/SO.

 

Abso-freaking-lutely.

 

Perfectly stated.

[rumbleseat]

I have grown tired of Book Mountain as well.

 

I can see why some WS cheat because I can feel inside that it "wouldn't be a big deal to me or him if I cheated." And I have been "trying hard for years while he just sat back and laughed at me and berated me."

 

But the truth is. I don't want to go there.

It smacks of escapism and while it may *seem* easier to find outside affection, it makes everything ten times worse.

 

I think that I could find 10000 ways to rationalize it. But the truth is I would just be procrastinating the inevitable:

 

My marriage is not going to change one iota until I solidly put my foot down....again.

 

But this time it means quitting my long-distance job because it is getting us NOWHERE.

 

Any extra money I make, he spends or takes days off from his part-time job. I am tired of being used. And frankly, using someone else for my own personal comfort is not going to solve this.

 

What I need to use is my brain and get myself out of this draining, toxic, risky arrangement and not try to utilize a third-party to stabilize me emotionally so I can stay IN it.

 

Which is exactly what OW/OM provide. A way for the MM/MW to stay IN their marriage.

 

It sounds like you don't cheat because it's not right for you to do it, and no set of conditions would make it that way.

 

It's the inverse of the idea that a person cheats because of something within themselves.

 

You don't cheat because of something within you.

[Trimmer]

It sounds like you don't cheat because it's not right for you to do it, and no set of conditions would make it that way.

 

It's the inverse of the idea that a person cheats because of something within themselves.

 

You don't cheat because of something within you.

Actually, that's not the inverse, it's actually the same idea: ultimately, despite all the outside influences - "blames" - whether you cheat or not depends on your character.

[dreamingoftigers]

Even if we suck the morality out of the argument.....

 

It would be like taking up smoking or drinking to me....

Self-destructive for no good reason.

Other's call it "fun."

I think it would just limit my power and autonomy. Just like everything else that looks like a "pleasant escape" but comes with massive strings attached.

[Zenstudent]

Even if we suck the morality out of the argument.....

 

It would be like taking up smoking or drinking to me....

Self-destructive for no good reason.

Other's call it "fun."

I think it would just limit my power and autonomy. Just like everything else that looks like a "pleasant escape" but comes with massive strings attached.

Does that mean that affairs with NSA sex are just illusions?

[dreamingoftigers]

Does that mean that affairs with NSA sex are just illusions?

 

I believe that the strings they are referring to are 'no strings of attachment between the two AP."

 

The strings that would attach to me is knowing that I have risked my family in a way that could deeply injure them.

 

As well, knowing that I didn't respect myself to not use and be used as someone's sexual tampon instead of fixing the actual issue at hand doesn't sit well with me at all.

Y

Everyone to a degree is avoidant. But I am Not by nature an avoidant person.

[janedoe67]

I don't think this is what she meant.

 

The research indicates the person giving the least is more likely to cheat.

 

I am sure she will correct me if I am wrong.

 

I'm very glad that research indicates that. Wasn't the case for us, regardless of research. And no, that isn't rewriting history either.

 

But the bottom line is that it doesn't matter. Cheating is still wrong. Cheating is a wrong choice no matter what else was or wasn't going on.

[Aspasia33]

I have been the BS twice in the most serious relationships I have had ( exfiance and current marriage) and I can say in hindsight that were deep problems in both relationships that contributed to the affairs. My ex fiancée has been happily married to the OW for 10 years, btw. My husband was a serial cheater in every relationship he ever had( due to a drug problem) I begged, pleaded, threatened did everything I could to get him to give up, it was only when he knew I was out the door that he did. The other problems that existed in our relationship he did not address and hasn't Changed. Even after much discussion open duacussion on my part.

My LTA was / is my way of doing something that was just for me. I had been the main one giving, trying, reaching out and supporting, and I needed something to give to me( my MM feels the same)

And a divorce is not an option for me , mainly as my husband is not well, and would totally collapse. And I also love him very much.

However, back to the original post. If my affair was discovered my husband may take the unusual stance of a BS and see the part he played in me becoming so disconnected and drained in our marriage, or if the premise of an affair is separate to any existing problems in the marriage, well then his indedelity and lying for 5 years would be magically erased. Somehow I don't see him wearing the cloak of the righteous. He's actually to aware for that.

And.. When I found out definetly about his serial cheating, we sat down and had an honest open talk about it.

I do not and never will believe that blissfully married people have affairs out of the blue. I totally own the issues that led to my fiancée straying, he tried to discuss them, but I wouldn't listen.

And as I mentioned on another thread here, separating the affair from the marriage to me doesn't seem to work. That way the BS can't know what led their spouse to it in the first place, and the WS can only be in atonement mode,which stops true intimacy.

 

I really don't think this issue is about who is to blame, it should be about both parties trying to understand each other( once the emotional dust is settled)

That's a perfect world I'm describing of course, and if people related like there would be a hell of a lot less affairs, or divorce( or marriage, for that matter:)

 

This is why I'm bewildered too - the notion that there is NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER between the state of the M and the infidelity. It boggles my mind.

[Aspasia33]

That's rather a sweeping generalization, isn't it? I thought the perceived sweeping generalisations of the original post is what was getting a lot of people upset here?

For the record, I haven't rewritten history in my marriage, the problems that existed before it are still there, and if I've rewritten it scince my affair it's actually in a more positive light. I am not nagging my husband to meet my sexual and intimacy needs anymore, so things are a lot more peaceful between ( hell hath no fury like a sexually rejected woman:)

And I have never made my husband look awful, why would I? I think he is a rather wonderful man, who I have no intention of leaving. I don't need to make him the bad guy to " justify" my affair.

For that matter, neither has my MM said a bad word( or indeed any word) about his marriage.

 

Cheaters also have a habit of making their spouse look as awful as possible. They tend to rewrite marital history.

[experiencethedevine]

That's rather a sweeping generalization, isn't it? I thought the perceived sweeping generalisations of the original post is what was getting a lot of people upset here?

For the record, I haven't rewritten history in my marriage, the problems that existed before it are still there, and if I've rewritten it scince my affair it's actually in a more positive light. I am not nagging my husband to meet my sexual and intimacy needs anymore, so things are a lot more peaceful between ( hell hath no fury like a sexually rejected woman:)

And I have never made my husband look awful, why would I? I think he is a rather wonderful man, who I have no intention of leaving. I don't need to make him the bad guy to " justify" my affair.

For that matter, neither has my MM said a bad word( or indeed any word) about his marriage.

 

 

Everything in your garden appears terribly rosy then to all intents, regardless of its dysfunctional aspects.

 

 

 

 

Jolly good.

 

 

 

 

However, the majority would be unhappy to accept mediocrity as a substitute for honesty, integrity and mutual devotion.

 

 

 

 

It is common during affairs for neither to discuss their marriages to any great extent (if both parties are married) by virtue of the glaringly obvious necessity to avoid the underlying consequences.

 

 

Whether one agrees or not, the betrayed spouse, despite all discussion to the contrary, cannot be held responsible for any part of the affair to which she/he is not privy to.

 

 

The BS IS a victim of deceit, and the subject of a clandestine triangle to which they have not been informed that they are involved in an open marriage.

 

 

Let's be perfectly frank here, nothing is going to 'resolve' marital issues, real or fantasised if this is the case now is it?

[janedoe67]

Whether one agrees or not, the betrayed spouse, despite all discussion to the contrary, cannot be held responsible for any part of the affair to which she/he is not privy to.

 

 

Very true

 

Which is why I made it exceedingly clear for years exactly how his behavior (or lack thereof) was hurting me while simultaneously trying to be good enough to earn what I needed.