pureinheart Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 You said "truth is not that common these days". I believe this is because we are in the age of the Laodicean Church--the church which is described in Revelation 3. Most theologians believe this church, along with the other 6, correlates to church periods throughout the post-Christ timeline. Laodicean church is basically a church that has merged with the world and is indistinguishable, not just in philosophy but in behavior. It's a church which believes that its "wealth" means they are well-off spiritually, yet they are wretched, naked and blind. Lastly, it's a "lukewarm" church which likes to take the middle road and never be extreme. It's during this church age when there will be massive deception since people believe they possess the truth, but the truth is not spoken on any pulpit or learned by any followers. Very powerful M30. This has perplexed me for sometime now. When an individual says they are a believer, I take that as the truth. My expectations thereon for that individual is that they follow (or at least try to follow) the Word. When stuff is communicated that is not Biblical I don't understand. I do however understand the fact of being human and humans sin and understand there is a certain amount of justification that comes until the individual is taken to the Divine Woodshed of Truth (God has blessed me by sending me there regularly). I also understand that God raises us up, we don't become powerful people of Him overnight. What I am seeing today has tweaked my mind and don't really know what to think. I wonder if the Laodicean Church of today is also a "self taught" church, meaning whatever they want the Bible to mean, wa la, there it is, make it up as you go to serve a specific purpose- self. Even the most basic obvious principles are distorted. Christianity has changed drastically within the last 20 years even. I am extremely grateful for the people in my early days who got up in my face and spoke the truth, of which God always confirmed one way or another. Hey, I ran across this Scripture tonight and thought it was fitting for this thread: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26). 2 Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I believe intuition in particular is the source of a lot of creative insights into a lot of complex academic fields of science, mathematics, engineering, medicine ect. I know the greatest insights I ever had after really thinking about a difficult problem for weeks came to with a flash of insight while I was sleeping or once I awoke. One may argue that the source of the powerful alighment of facts could come from a higher source. Was reading about intution in particular and how some of the Christian Mystics relied on this "power", whether it be from a super-conscious mindset, the holy spirit, or something else I do not know....and do not want to interject to much on THAT because I know in some sects of religions other sects are often rejected for certain beliefs ect. I'm a big believer that the Holy Spirit is indeed each individuals intuition. Intuition can be very keen while the mind is clear or at rest. The ability to "see" things not previously known but act on that knowledge is amazing and magical. I believe scientists work with evidence, data and facts. Individuals skewing facts and evidence is always expected and highly possible...especially if a certain outcome is needed for gain. Truth is elusive - I believe it's based on personal experience and perspective. But the pie in the sky Holy Spirit? I don't buy it anymore - I have too much clear evidence that intuition is one in the same and individual for each person - able to achieve at any time if any person is capable of keeping the cluttered mind away. Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveaddict Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) did you know every word in the bible is a lie? especially about abortion. the truth is it isn't a baby till its born. lol . You are a ****ing genius dude. Congrats on your knowledge about basic biology. Edited January 30, 2014 by skydiveaddict 1 Link to post Share on other sites
umirano Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Nothing I'm saying isn't already in the Bible. You need to understand that the Holy Spirit comes via revelation. That is, it originates outside our minds and teaches us what we don't know. It's not contradictory to say that we can't understand truth and yet we can know the truth via the Holy Spirit. Why? Because of the concept of revelation. We are not learning something ourselves--it's coming from an outside source. Are those true too? How do you know, as a human? Are you truthfully claiming you know? You cannot know anything by your own statement. Not even that you are in conctact with the holy spirit. Your claims are self-contradicting and if assumed to be true, also self-refuting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) I'm a big believer that the Holy Spirit is indeed each individuals intuition. Intuition can be very keen while the mind is clear or at rest. The ability to "see" things not previously known but act on that knowledge is amazing and magical. I believe scientists work with evidence, data and facts. Individuals skewing facts and evidence is always expected and highly possible...especially if a certain outcome is needed for gain. Truth is elusive - I believe it's based on personal experience and perspective. But the pie in the sky Holy Spirit? I don't buy it anymore - I have too much clear evidence that intuition is one in the same and individual for each person - able to achieve at any time if any person is capable of keeping the cluttered mind away. The Holy Spirit is not intuition. Our intuition, along with our entire being, is tainted by sin and unreliable. Your intuition will merely bring about sinful desires which, according to David, you were conceived with in your mother's womb. We can only hear from the Holy Spirit if God sends it to us. Everyone has intuition. Not everyone has the Holy Spirit. Here is how to tell if you are hearing from the Holy Spirit: 1) You are continually mindful of Jesus Christ and obeying him. 2) You are convicted of sin and repent (not just once but daily). 3) The Holy Spirit will not contradict Scripture. Edited January 30, 2014 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jba10582 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The root of Being, of knowledge, the starting point, the axioms, self-evident truths, the rules and starting points of reason, from which we base what follows, to aid our understanding, and use our perceptions, our five senses, our brain, to intelligently interpret, what works well and what does not work as well, can come from experience, logical reasoning, intuition, higher sources, making it possible, to learn from many walks of life, that work, for each individual or certain areas in society. 1000’s of years of thought, experiences and wisdom has been put into science and various world religions, and for that, I do not discount what can be learned and applied from either, whether it be to obtain my own peace from a meditative state, praying to God or reading scripture to focus my thoughts, make parallels or connections, to apply my knowledge of engineering (or science) to develop a set of plans, or even to use my experiences to put the right ingredients together in a well cooked meal or understand the best way to adapt ongoing workouts at the gym ect. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 My mind about what God is or isn't - and what the Holy Spirit is or isn't - has been altered by a near death experience six years ago. My mind is much more open than the Bibles' way I was taught. It's a book - written by humans - from their experience and perspectives. I am mindful each day of helping others. I've lived in hell on earth. I also believe you can live in heaven without dying. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 My mind about what God is or isn't - and what the Holy Spirit is or isn't - has been altered by a near death experience six years ago. My mind is much more open than the Bibles' way I was taught. It's a book - written by humans - from their experience and perspectives. I am mindful each day of helping others. I've lived in hell on earth. I also believe you can live in heaven without dying. Just as long as you're not relying on your own understanding when seeking God. The bible tells us that humans CANNOT know God with natural understanding. Left to our own thoughts, we will NOT come to know him or learn correct information about him. Since God is holy and we are not, the only hope we have of knowing him is through the Holy Spirit who, according to Scripture, is God himself and will teach us all things. Link to post Share on other sites
mukkrakker Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 BY DEFINITION AND QUALIFICATION you cannot prove or disprove evolution with the scientific method Dude, there's a whole discipline - Evolutionary Medicine - dedicated to applying the rules of evolution. Flu shot anyone? Most of modern agriculture depends on it, GMOs, enzymes, pigments, antibiotics, flavors, biopolymers, bacterial strains etc etc etc are all created using evolution - you observe, make a hypothesis, test it, make conclusions and predictions, test those, communicate those results and have them verified by others… People were doing it before there was a theory of evolution or the scientific method. We do not know what causes gravity, but it's predictability guarantees we can land humans on the moon. We actually know a lot more about evolution than gravity. Although I'm sure you'll tell me gravity is only there due to God's will - "...he suspends the earth over nothing." Job 26:7 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Of course we are supposed to use our brains. Your comment implies that the Holy Spirit would have use jump off cliffs, stand in front of trains, and argue that 2+2=37. I am suggesting that what you call the holy spirit is really just your imagination leading you around mindlessly by the nose. What you suggest is the sort of reasoning that led us to burn witches at the stake and bleed people who had viral infections. It is also why no two religions can ever agree on "the truth". The truth is different for everyone because it is all coming from people's imaginations, instead of through logic and sound reasoning. Edited January 30, 2014 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) What you suggest is the sort of reasoning that led us to burn witches at the stake and bleed people who had viral infections. Really? Name a scriptural verse which supports this. (The "genocide" of the Canaanites does not apply because these people were offspring of unions between fallen angels and human woman. If God hadn't done this, your savior Jesus Christ would not have been born as "the seed of the woman (Eve)" and all mankind would be hell-bound. God is merciful. This is hard to swallow, but I'm just saying the situation is not comparable to today.) Edited January 30, 2014 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just as long as you're not relying on your own understanding when seeking God. The bible tells us that humans CANNOT know God with natural understanding. Left to our own thoughts, we will NOT come to know him or learn correct information about him. Since God is holy and we are not, the only hope we have of knowing him is through the Holy Spirit who, according to Scripture, is God himself and will teach us all things. What if God himself is the actual act of helping others? Link to post Share on other sites
jba10582 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It is also why no two religions can ever agree on "the truth". There are parallels and differences in many religions and various sects within the "whole" of a religion and/or religions that combine aspects of two religions like sikhism for example. Relgion as a whole is not a pure subject (as in having agreements about everything). Another example is acestism and living an austere lifestyle is practice in some religions but rejected in others and then some do only on occasions or for example fasting simply to rid an illness for medical reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 What if God himself is the actual act of helping others? Only if "helping others" is what created the universe. Link to post Share on other sites
jba10582 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just as long as you're not relying on your own understanding when seeking God. The bible tells us that humans CANNOT know God with natural understanding. Left to our own thoughts, we will NOT come to know him or learn correct information about him. Since God is holy and we are not, the only hope we have of knowing him is through the Holy Spirit who, according to Scripture, is God himself and will teach us all things. This statement has a parallels in mediation in itself (Buddhism, Hinduism ect..)...because through meditation is often a process of silencing the mind, uncluttering the thoughts as the breathing becomes calm and natural. Some believe this is a State for which divine wisdom, intuition or the spirit is received by this higher source of knowledge...and sleep is an example where the brain wave activity slows down...although ironically scientist studying a Tibetan Buddhist had studied their brainwaves (gamma) were faster than normal thought...an experience from which the monk and the observer were separate but where focused knowledge is being recieved or understood. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 This statement has a parallels in mediation in itself (Buddhism, Hinduism ect..)...because through meditation is often a process of silencing the mind, uncluttering the thoughts as the breathing becomes calm and natural. Some believe this is a State for which divine wisdom, intuition or the spirit is received by this higher source of knowledge...and sleep is an example where the brain wave activity slows down...although ironically scientist studying a Tibetan Buddhist had studied their brainwaves (gamma) were faster than normal thought...an experience from which the monk and the observer were separate but where focused knowledge is being recieved or understood. Very true. But the act of opening up to the spirit realm, itself, is not synonomous with listening to the Holy Spirit. The spirit realm, in general, can be either good or bad. In fact MOST of the spirits are demonic. It's the Holy Spirit alone who speaks truth and is the spirit of the true God. How do you know you are hearing the Holy Spirit and not other demonic spirits? Paul tells us that it will always confirm to us that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God; that he came IN THE FLESH; and that he was crucified and rose on the third day. Additionally, as I mentioned in a prior post, the Holy Spirit will always bring people (even Christians) to continual repentance of our sins. Lastly, the Holy Spirit will not contradict Scripture. The reason for this is because the men who wrote the Scriptures were all inspired BY the Holy Spirit, so it will not contradict itself in the testimonies of those who possess it. Link to post Share on other sites
jba10582 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 also found it interesting that the etymology of the word spirit comes from the latin word spirtus breath or to breathe Link to post Share on other sites
jba10582 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Charles Stanley, the preacher of the first baptist church in Atlanta wrote a book called listening to God. He mentions laying down in his woodshed in a completely dark quiet place in his own form of "meditation". He often says many people only pray in one direction...but as everyone knows communication is not only speaking but listening. I find this interesting with other religions as well in which this method is so similiar to get into the state at which this occurs. My own understanding of thoughts tend to be that which you focus on and psychologically having a strong knowledge of scripture would provide the right insight into the discernment you are talking about. In the other direction, a day dream or focus on something (imagined or real) and replaying it over and over is another form of entering an altered state of consciousness and "learning". Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Charles Stanley, the preacher of the first baptist church in Atlanta wrote a book called listening to God. He mentions laying down in his woodshed in a completely dark quiet place in his own form of "meditation". He often says many people only pray in one direction...but as everyone knows communication is not only speaking but listening. I find this interesting with other religions as well in which this method is so similiar to get into the state at which this occurs. My own understanding of thoughts tend to be that which you focus on and psychologically having a strong knowledge of scripture would provide the right insight into the discernment you are talking about. In the other direction, a day dream or focus on something (imagined or real) and replaying it over and over is another form of entering an altered state of consciousness and "learning". Dr. Charles Stanley is a good, solid teacher of truth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mukkrakker Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Dr. Charles Stanley is a good, solid teacher of truth. divorced after 44 years of marriage… …just sayin' Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) divorced after 44 years of marriage… …just sayin' Jesus allows divorce for infidelity. In the Old Testament, God even commanded Israelities to divorce women from pagan nations in certain cases (This was when genealogical line of messiah was still being formed and God needed specific events to transpire, so it doesn't apply today. But what it does show is that marriage is not the be all and end all of God's plan.) Do you have inside information about why Stanley divorced? Edited January 30, 2014 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 divorced after 44 years of marriage… …just sayin' Jesus allows divorce for infidelity. In the Old Testament, God even commanded Israelities to divorce women from pagan nations in certain cases. Do you have inside information about why Stanley divorced? Your comment suggests the purpose of trying to discredit Stanley. So are you suggesting divorce is wrong? On what basis? I thought you reject God's laws and commands. Why then would you point out his potential sin if you reject the notion of sin? Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 When the mind is completely empty - it's possible to hear and see what needs to be communicated. Words are words - you can call it whatever you wish... That's just a name attached to the experience. When I experience it - I know exactly what it is! Link to post Share on other sites
mukkrakker Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Do you have inside information about why Stanley divorced? no more than you elucidated with "good, solid teacher of truth" - I assumed that was your opinion, since you provided no evidence to show that your comment was based on anything else. Besides, I think you well know that Charlie had a somewhat rumpatious marital relationship, and divorce. And, as I said, just saying'… Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) no more than you elucidated with "good, solid teacher of truth" - I assumed that was your opinion, since you provided no evidence to show that your comment was based on anything else. Besides, I think you well know that Charlie had a somewhat rumpatious marital relationship, and divorce. And, as I said, just saying'… I've heard hundreds of Stanley sermons. His teaching are biblical. You'd do yourself a favor by listening to him. As far as your attempt to discredit him, there is no information to substantiate anything of the sort at the current time. While you're at it, do you want to discredit Paul, the author of 1/2 the New Testament, because he tortured and imprisoned Christians? Even if you do, you're still left with Jesus Christ. When you realize he was without any fault, will you believe his words? Edited January 30, 2014 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
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