Is there shame in staying?

[Snowflower]

 

I gave them all back. I told you here you go, do whatever you want. You have a good man, great kids, and a life most would kill to have. You tried to screw it up and you need to thank your lucky stars I'm still here. Its hers to screw up if she wants. If she does, no regrets. I can walk away knowing I did everything I could to keep my family together. I dont watch her like a hawk or police everything she does.

 

 

And isn't there wonderful freedom in being like this? It took me awhile to learn this but when I told my H to go ahead and knock himself out doing whatever he wished to do...I felt so much better. There is no point in policing or scrutiny, they are going to do what they are going to do anyway. But, running the other way and give them free rein often has the desired effect.

 

This is off-topic but a good point for all BS to remember, IMO.

[Ap22]

Wow. Just...wow.

 

Figured you would not take that as intended. Unfortunately we cant draw pictures for you to understand better but let me see what I can do.....

 

The point is, I dont give a damn what she does. Shes either going to be faithful or shes not. If she is faithful from this point....fantastic!

If not, oh well. Move on. I dont care. My life isnt going to be spent wondering is her or any other woman will cheat on me.

 

Also, just because you get a fresh start with a new woman doesnt mean that new woman hasnt cheated in the past. The problem 9 times out of 10 is the cheater, not the betrayed.

[Ap22]

And isn't there wonderful freedom in being like this? It took me awhile to learn this but when I told my H to go ahead and knock himself out doing whatever he wished to do...I felt so much better. There is no point in policing or scrutiny, they are going to do what they are going to do anyway. But, running the other way and give them free rein often has the desired effect.

 

This is off-topic but a good point for all BS to remember, IMO.

 

Yeah it is. I just didnt see a point in policing her. Thats no life. I didnt want to spend my days worrying about what shes doing, checking cell phone records, etc. If she ever cheats again, she'll get busted again. The truth always comes out eventually.

 

Get good with yourself and know that you can handle whats at stake and you're good to go.

[BetrayedH]

There is...perhaps...some shame in staying if you truly don't rebuild/reconcile the marriage.

 

That has got to suck.

 

But staying after the marriage has been rebuilt, the relationship restored?

 

I'm good with it.

 

As I've said in another thread...if we weren't reconciled...I have the choice to be out. If I wasn't happy with where my marriage was this morning when I woke up...I could have decided that I've had enough, and ended it. My wife retains that same option, every day, every minute.

 

Knowing that...and yet waking up every morning to a good relationship that we both enjoy...doesn't shame me in the least.

 

For those that don't think it's possible...you've not lived my life.

 

I definitely agree that it really does come down to how the reconciliation is proceeding. Mine didn't go the way it should and the result was divorce. I don't regret or feel shame for having made the effort although (in hindsight) I most certainly tried too hard and should have either required more or thrown in the towel sooner rather than making some awful decisions as I over-prioritized salvaging the marriage.

 

But for those (like you, Spark, and innumerable others) that have happily and successfully reconciled properly, who's to judge?

[ladydesigner]

I have not read the thread but wanted to say that I do feel some shame in staying, especially since I have suffered multiple Ddays and OW. Every day is a challenge in figuring out myself in this aftermath. WH is putting in the effort as am I and that's all we can really do going forward. We still love each other after our A's and want to make a go of it. The feeling of love for my WH and my family overshadows any lingering shame that I have, but it is still there at times (especially during lows).

[JohnMcClaine]

Figured you would not take that as intended. Unfortunately we cant draw pictures for you to understand better but let me see what I can do.....

 

The point is, I dont give a damn what she does. Shes either going to be faithful or shes not. If she is faithful from this point....fantastic!

If not, oh well. Move on. I dont care. My life isnt going to be spent wondering is her or any other woman will cheat on me.

 

Also, just because you get a fresh start with a new woman doesnt mean that new woman hasnt cheated in the past. The problem 9 times out of 10 is the cheater, not the betrayed.

 

This whole time your defending this position only to come right out and say you don't trust your wife and you don't give a damn what she does. I really am in the twilight zone.

[Owl]

I definitely agree that it really does come down to how the reconciliation is proceeding. Mine didn't go the way it should and the result was divorce. I don't regret or feel shame for having made the effort although (in hindsight) I most certainly tried too hard and should have either required more or thrown in the towel sooner rather than making some awful decisions as I over-prioritized salvaging the marriage.

 

But for those (like you, Spark, and innumerable others) that have happily and successfully reconciled properly, who's to judge?

 

And here's the thing, BH. I've got nothing but respect for you. You did the most that you could do...and when you realized that there was nothing left for you to do, you made your choice, set a goal, got a plan, and made stuff happen.

 

Recognizing the right path (for you and your situation) and taking action to reach that goal has NO shame attached.

 

Regardless of what that path is.

[Fluttershy]

shame

SHām/

noun

1.

a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior.

 

By the definition, the only person who should feel any shame is the WS. Unless of course you yourself feel you were "foolish" to stay. I don't and no one can "shame me" into feeling otherwise.

[experiencethedevine]

Every single person that I know who has stayed with a cheater did so because they were too weak to leave them. And in the vast majority of cases, it happened again. That's not broken, that's destroyed. Some people have more self-respect than to try to sleep at night knowing their partner has made love to someone else. The worst part is in the case where they have children, in which case they are practically telling their children it's ok to put up with a cheater because that's just "how things go". Disgusting.

 

 

Crikey....................

 

 

What sort of people do you mix with??? ........................

[experiencethedevine]

Considering that most who cheat are likely to do it again, yes. It's staggering how many times I've read this half*** justification for remaining with an unfaithful partner. Seriously, read that you just wrote again.

 

 

Horse manure.

 

 

My husbands affair (one that he was incredibly ashamed of, and to this day regrets ever getting involved with the individual he chose to have the affair with) ended 16 years ago.

 

 

We BOTH worked diligently and dedicated ourselves to repairing the damage. This is no easy path, and takes monumental effort, but when all the pros and cons are weighed up, and the mutual decision to attempt repair is made, then you'd better hold on and dig deep because this road is fraught with pot holes and rocks to navigate.

 

 

It is disrespectful to state that one is 'weak' to attempt such a journey, and quite frankly pitifully narrow minded.

 

 

Today, I can assure you that our marriage is as sound as any that could possibly be unaffected by infidelity, probably more so because we truly appreciate what we have, nurture and protect our marriage every day, and are devoted to one another.

 

 

Out of something bad DOES come something good in many cases.

 

 

Those who have no idea that our lives have been blighted by infidelity are the ones who comment most that our happiness is enviable. We smile graciously, knowing that it took a very concerted effort to get here, but it was worth that effort tenfold.

[Ap22]

This whole time your defending this position only to come right out and say you don't trust your wife and you don't give a damn what she does. I really am in the twilight zone.

 

Jesus you really do need pictures drawn to understand dont you?

 

Not trusting and not caring what she does are not the same thing. I dont trust her as far as I can throw her. Why should I? Who would trust a WS less than 3 months from Dday?

 

That being said, shes free to do whatever she wants. I am not going to watch her like a hawk or police over her so she doesnt cheat again. If she decides to cheat again, go for it. She got a second chance, there will not be a third.

 

The difference between a strong and weak person giving a cheater another chance varies on each situation. A BS who stays with a WS who shows no remorse and/or constantly keeps cheating probably is staying because of weakness or fear.

 

A BS who gives a very remorseful WS, who shows extreme guilt/remorse and does everything to try and make up for it, a second chance is not weakness. In my situation, I gave her a second chance because there is a little girl in my life who I value more than my life. I would go through hell and back to keep that little girl happy. I can certainly give my remorseful WW a second chance to keep from destroying everything shes ever known in her young life.

 

There is no weakness in what I am doing. She knows she is extremely lucky that she gets a second chance. She knows damn well why she got one too. She also knows, beyond a shadow of doubt, that she will never, ever get a 3rd chance.

 

Like I told you earlier, just because you read the Guide to being a Macho Man book, does not make you a good judge on what strength is. McClaine, what you have displayed on this thread is not strength, its Machismo. Not the same thing.

[JohnMcClaine]

Jesus you really do need pictures drawn to understand dont you?

 

Oh no. I understand perfectly. You're still married to a woman who cheated on you, who you don't trust, because you think that divorcing her will somehow destroy your child's life, despite the fact that people with kids divorce every day and the kids turn out fine.

 

It's strange that you keep saying you're staying for the kid because you don't want to destroy her life, but that your wife won't get a third chance should she cheat again. These concepts are in conflict.

[Ap22]

Oh no. I understand perfectly. You're still married to a woman who cheated on you, who you don't trust, because you think that divorcing her will somehow destroy your child's life, despite the fact that people with kids divorce every day and the kids turn out fine.

 

It's strange that you keep saying you're staying for the kid because you don't want to destroy her life, but that your wife won't get a third chance should she cheat again. These concepts are in conflict.

 

Lets get to your first statement. Again, you love to generalize your points to make you sound right. A 5 year old would not understand why their parents no longer live together. This upheaval in their young life would be devastating. I choose not to do that and your statement that kids turn out fine is ludicrous. I know first hand what its like to have divorced parents as do many of us. I know many people who didnt turn out "fine".

 

Second, my concept of not destroying my kids life is simple. I will do what I can to keep from doing that. That being said, sometimes you just cant stop everything from happening. I gave my wife a second chance because I felt I could overcome this, if nothing else, for my daughter. Now if my wife chooses to do this again, well then at that point I will walk away knowing I did everything I could to keep this from happening. Bad things happen in life. I cant control when and what happens. All I can do is try my best for my daughter.

 

McClaine, its pretty obvious you're a troll who is just looking to get a rise out of people. You sound like a bitter person who isnt happy unless he brings others down. Looking at your 44 posts, they are all negative and very unhelpful. Its best to ignore trolls like you so I wont be responding to you. Besides, like I said, unless I can draw pretty pictures, I doubt you would ever be able to understand anything.

[JohnMcClaine]

I choose not to do that and your statement that kids turn out fine is ludicrous.

 

No, it isn't. You saying that all kids or even the majority of kids end up with destroyed lives is ludicrous.

 

McClaine, its pretty obvious you're a troll who is just looking to get a rise out of people. You sound like a bitter person who isnt happy unless he brings others down. Looking at your 44 posts, they are all negative and very unhelpful. Its best to ignore trolls like you so I wont be responding to you. Besides, like I said, unless I can draw pretty pictures, I doubt you would ever be able to understand anything.

 

Right, because in bizarro world, it's unhelpful to tell someone to leave a cheater who they don't trust. A previous poster even alluded to the idea that infidelity actually helped their relationship. Utter insanity.

[BetrayedH]

You'd love this book.

 

My Husband's Affair Became the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me by Anne Bercht

[Snowflower]

You'd love this book.

 

My Husband's Affair Became the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me by Anne Bercht

 

I checked out that book when I was in the earlier stages of recovering from my husband's affair. The title is a bit misleading and the author really talks about her own growth and discovery in the wake of her husband's affair. I never finished the book because it didn't resonate with me.

[BetrayedH]

I checked out that book when I was in the earlier stages of recovering from my husband's affair. The title is a bit misleading and the author really talks about her own growth and discovery in the wake of her husband's affair. I never finished the book because it didn't resonate with me.

 

I would tend to agree that the book itself doesn't carry the same weight as some other we recommend around here. I was actually more influenced by her website and the theme of forgiveness that's pervasive throughout their work together. In particular, I attended their monthly support groups for betrayed spouses and found a tremendous value in sitting face to face with a room full of BSs. I would still be attending today if they weren't always on one of my days shen I have the kids (and a Boy Scout meeting) and I'm still in touch with the BS that runs the group. She's a wonderful woman and recently her fWH came and shared his story with the group. Much of what I garnered from them was a better understanding that not all waywards are the antiChrist incarnate but in fact flawed individuals, much like the rest of us, that chose a really damaging coping mechanism. Some people choose drugs or alcohol; our spouses chose an affair. It taught me that affairs are many times indeed mistakes (not accidents) and that while it hurts US tremendously, it rarely has much of anything to do with us. It's not unforgivable and there's no shame in extending that forgiveness when it's merited. And yes, in some cases, a more rewarding relationship is built because neither partner is hiding behind a facade of being a perfect individual.

[Snowflower]

I would tend to agree that the book itself doesn't carry the same weight as some other we recommend around here. I was actually more influenced by her website and the theme of forgiveness that's pervasive throughout their work together. In particular, I attended their monthly support groups for betrayed spouses and found a tremendous value in sitting face to face with a room full of BSs. I would still be attending today if they weren't always on one of my days shen I have the kids (and a Boy Scout meeting) and I'm still in touch with the BS that runs the group. She's a wonderful woman and recently her fWH came and shared his story with the group. Much of what I garnered from them was a better understanding that not all waywards are the antiChrist incarnate but in fact flawed individuals, much like the rest of us, that chose a really damaging coping mechanism. Some people choose drugs or alcohol; our spouses chose an affair. It taught me that affairs are many times indeed mistakes (not accidents) and that while it hurts US tremendously, it rarely has much of anything to do with us. It's not unforgivable and there's no shame in extending that forgiveness when it's merited. And yes, in some cases, a more rewarding relationship is built because neither partner is hiding behind a facade of being a perfect individual.

 

It's very fortunate that you were able to attend some of these meetings. When I tried to read this book, what you describe here is more of what I was looking for at that particular time in my recovery. The book didn't provide that, at least for me.

 

Again, I am not a self-help book type of person and I was so disappointed that when I decide to reach for a self-help book, this one was misleading. I now see more of the value of self-discovery and growth on an individual basis on the part of the BS, but at that time I wasn't there yet. I was looking to heal from my H's affair and yes, see some good that came out of it.

 

And, I did see some good that came out of it, years later. What I went through helped me in another capacity.

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to belabor the point with you, BH. It's nice to have a chat with someone who is not trying to inflame this thread. I'm glad that this resource was helpful for you. Maybe I will have to look at the website.

[drifter777]

I checked out that book (My Husband's Affair Became the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me by Anne Bercht) when I was in the earlier stages of recovering from my husband's affair. The title is a bit misleading and the author really talks about her own growth and discovery in the wake of her husband's affair. I never finished the book because it didn't resonate with me.

I don't know how a book with this title could resonate with any BS. Oh, and speaking of BS - the idea that anything good can come out of infidelity is ignorant and insulting.

Edited January 28, 2014 by drifter777

[Owl]

I know this isn't going to be a popular post...LOL!

 

It IS possible for "good" to come out of infidelity.

 

That does NOT mean that cheating is in anyway desireable, a good way to create that 'good', nor in any way something that I consider a "positive" thing.

 

Think butterfly effect. It's possible that a drunk driver could run over an abusive parent. The end effect could be to improve the abused child's life by removing the abuser...but that in no way makes the act of drunk driving a good thing, or a positive thing.

 

It's entirely possible that a couple that knew nothing about how to feed and care for their marriage could end up dealing with one of the partners being unfaithful. They could then go on as a result of the affair to engage in marriage counseling, reconcile their marriage, and learn a lot more about how to better maintain their marriage going forward.

 

That doesn't make the cheating any more honorable, desierable, or a 'good' thing.

 

But it's possible that both partners could have learned a painful lesson and changed how they handled relations going forward.

 

Insulting or not, there you are.

 

I'm not saying cheating is good, nor advocating it. But I am saying that I think it's ignorant to think that good cannot come out of bad situations or decisions, just as bad things can sometimes happen even as the result of "good" things or decisions.

[Fluttershy]

I don't know how a book with this title could resonate with any BS. Oh, and speaking of BS - the idea that anything good can come out of infidelity is ignorant and insulting.

 

I feel it is ignorant and insulting to project your own personal feelings on reconciliation on to everyone else. Don't think staying works for you? Great. Don't think you will ever have a better marriage post affair? Well, that's your choice and perception. But don't believe that is true for everyone or even most. Because it isn't.

[Snowflower]

To add to what Owl said above and take it a little further...

 

I am in no way happy that my H cheated on me. It hurt like nothing else and changed who I was as a person and my perception of the world.

 

However, something "good" came out of it and that was what I now refer to as "strength training" from what I learned as the outcome of my H's affair.

 

Okay, big sigh, here it goes. No one here knows me from anyone else and I regularly and openly contribute on a cancer forum just like this one...I shouldn't have a hang up about this.

 

Last year, I was diagnosed with cancer. Yep, after finally getting to a good place with what happened with my marriage and just generally happy with the direction of my life.. I got clobbered with that news. My diagnosis was a serious one. I have had to have surgery, chemo, more treatments, the whole 9 yards. Anyone who is reading this who has had cancer, helped a loved one through it or been touched by it in any way knows what a shockwave this type of news can send through your life (sound like infidelity anyone?)

 

As I began to sort it out, I realized that all that strength and composure and emotional stability that I slowly learned through the pain of my H's affair SERVED ME WELL as I grappled with what was happening to me.

 

I regularly contribute on another cancer-related forum. Sometimes the posters there are blindsided and flailing by their diagnosis. The emotional shock is worse than the physical one (again, like infidelity). I found myself "ahead" of so many who dealt with their diagnosis in those early days. I realized this was from already having to deal with it in a very similar form-my husband's cheating.

 

It was still not easy but the coping mechanisms I learned through my experience with infidelity helped me emotionally as I had to begin to battle physically.

 

And for that, I am grateful for that awful experience.

 

Okay, blast away on me.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Snowflower

[drifter777]

I know this isn't going to be a popular post...LOL!

 

It IS possible for "good" to come out of infidelity.

 

That does NOT mean that cheating is in anyway desireable, a good way to create that 'good', nor in any way something that I consider a "positive" thing.

 

Think butterfly effect. It's possible that a drunk driver could run over an abusive parent. The end effect could be to improve the abused child's life by removing the abuser...but that in no way makes the act of drunk driving a good thing, or a positive thing.

 

It's entirely possible that a couple that knew nothing about how to feed and care for their marriage could end up dealing with one of the partners being unfaithful. They could then go on as a result of the affair to engage in marriage counseling, reconcile their marriage, and learn a lot more about how to better maintain their marriage going forward.

 

That doesn't make the cheating any more honorable, desierable, or a 'good' thing.

But it's possible that both partners could have learned a painful lesson and changed how they handled relations going forward.

 

Insulting or not, there you are.

 

I'm not saying cheating is good, nor advocating it. But I am saying that I think it's ignorant to think that good cannot come out of bad situations or decisions, just as bad things can sometimes happen even as the result of "good" things or decisions.

You went a long way trying to rationalize your assertion but ended up proving my point.

[Snowflower]

You went a long way trying to rationalize your assertion but ended up proving my point.

 

What? That something good can come out of the painful experience of infidelity?

 

Taking reconciliation out of the equation, I've read many times where a spouse cheats, the BS divorces them and then meets and marries a much better partner for them. So, in a sense, something good comes out of a bad situation.

 

Or, like Owl explained where successful reconciliation happens and a better marriage is a result. Again, something good.

 

Or, my situation where I learned some necessary skills that help me as I work to heal. Again, something positive.

 

Infidelity=bad but some outcomes can be positive.

[ClemsonTigers]

You have known several betrayed spouses who have lost a child who found infidelity much worse, I doubt it!!!! Disgusting to compare

 

 

If my words on a forum describing the feelings of several, but not near all, of the betrayed spouses I have helped over the years in real life is disgusting, then how do you live with yourself and your behavior as an other woman? Isn't that ACTION more "disgusting", than mere words?

 

Were I inclined to take the words of an active other woman seriously I would tell her that I find it disgusting for her to minimize the pain a betrayed spouse feels by stating it's disgusting for them to feel the loss of child was easier to come to grips with than the betrayal of their spouse who had promised to love, honor and cherish them forsaking all others until death do us part. To SOME people and in some situations, death is natural and understandable. There is a natural order to it whereas betrayal is nasty evil with no explanation, justification or reason. People live and they die but they don't have to cheat.

 

Further, I'm not saying they are right or wrong. We ARE talking about feelings here, not facts and nobody is wishing death upon anyone or making any indication that they'd rather lose a kid than have their spouse cheat. I'm certain every one of them would have their spouse cheat 1000 times if they could have their child back.

 

whatever.