Is there shame in staying?

[AlwaysGrowing]

Whether one has infidelity, illness or abuse in their life experience...we all have the capacity to not allow it to define/limit/consume us.

 

We can actually THRIVE in spite of it all. Become wiser, kinder, more compassionate, generous and LOVING.

 

How we handle life's struggles and hurts are what matters. Do we lay down and give up? Or do we forge ahead even stronger, footsteps even lighter, doesn't mean I'm over cause you're gone......thank you Kelly.

 

And thriving feels oh so much better than victim any day of the week.

[drifter777]

Actually, you posted:

 

 

Then I posted my response to that...which was a demonstration of how good CAN come out of infidelity, even if infidelity is never a desirable means to change a relationship.

 

You responded:

 

 

Which really wasn't a response. It didn't outline anything to counter my argument. WHen I asked you to do so, you simply claimed that you didn't care if I undrstood you or not.

 

I still haven't seen anything other than your hatred of infidelity that actually supports your claim...only your feelings.

 

I get that you FEEL that something positive coming out of an affair is insulting...but seen nothing that demonstrates that it's not possible. I've demonstrated how it is possible, as many of us who post here have seen it happen in our own lives.

 

My viewpoint is certainly not ignorant, although it may indeed insult your feelings about infidelity.

Maybe we don't agree on the definition of "good".

[Owl]

Maybe we don't agree on the definition of "good".

 

I don't know...remember we're talking about the OUTCOME of the infidelity.

 

Not the infidelity itself.

 

As indicated by your post:

I don't know how a book with this title could resonate with any BS. Oh, and speaking of BS - the idea that anything good can come out of infidelity is ignorant and insulting.

 

If the outcome is much improved communication between the spouses, improved boundaries and measures that help to prevent the relationship from deteriorating to the point where an affair is likely again...isn't that "good"?

 

Isn't that what you (anyone) would have wanted in their relationship PRIOR to the affair occurring?

 

So...that as an outcome is "good", is it not? If not...give me an example of "good" in the context that you mean it, so we can compare.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Hmmmm, something just came to me.

 

If we get stuck in victim-like thought processes does it feed shame and hopelessness of the situation?

 

And..if we change our perspective to....I refuse to allow another's poor choices/actions to detract from my life....does that now empower us to actually move forward more healthier, stronger, eyes wide open than who we were before? That, we stole the possible negative outcome by refusing to wear the victim hat badge, and to just make sure the negativity understood us....we used it to enhance us...so there...take that?

[Fluttershy]

Maybe we don't agree on the definition of "good".

 

Well then is

 

Having better communication not good?

Being a stronger person able to cope better not good?

Being closer than ever not good?

Finding someone who you have 40 years of fidelity not good?

[Steen719]

I have to say, I'm not sure why it is OK to say a person is stronger for staying, but a person is not stronger for leaving. I think a lot of posters don't like the way the poster has said he thinks a person is stronger for leaving, but that doesn't mean he is wrong. Isn't it different for each person? each situation?

 

I stayed the first time. It was not easy; this is true. There were some very difficult parts of staying and one was how I felt about staying with a person who would do that to me. I kept my family together - that part made it easier. I kept my finances sort of intact - that part was easier.

 

I left the second time. I had cared for him - sick and almost dead and God knows, I gave what I had to the marriage. He cheated again and I left. I lost my house, my money, I work 2 jobs to help my son finish college (by myself), I am in year one of a 5 year bankruptcy repayment plan, my family is not together anymore and if anyone thinks that didn't take strength - well, then that's OK. I know what it took.

 

My point is that most people on this thread think they made the harder choice by staying. That is not always true and I don't think I can say someone else should stay or go and if I think one or the other, I would tell them only if they asked me. I think people make decisions based on their background, FOO, personality and circumstances to name a few. Why do some people stay in a crappy job? Do they need the security? Are their circumstances such that they feel they have to?

 

My 2 cents, anyway. Probably won't matter, but I had to say, I don't think it's any better to say a person is stronger because they stayed in a marriage after infidelity than the person who chose to leave.

[Fluttershy]

I have to say, I'm not sure why it is OK to say a person is stronger for staying, but a person is not stronger for leaving. I think a lot of posters don't like the way the poster has said he thinks a person is stronger for leaving, but that doesn't mean he is wrong. Isn't it different for each person? each situation?

 

I stayed the first time. It was not easy; this is true. There were some very difficult parts of staying and one was how I felt about staying with a person who would do that to me. I kept my family together - that part made it easier. I kept my finances sort of intact - that part was easier.

 

I left the second time. I had cared for him - sick and almost dead and God knows, I gave what I had to the marriage. He cheated again and I left. I lost my house, my money, I work 2 jobs to help my son finish college (by myself), I am in year one of a 5 year bankruptcy repayment plan, my family is not together anymore and if anyone thinks that didn't take strength - well, then that's OK. I know what it took.

 

My point is that most people on this thread think they made the harder choice by staying. That is not always true and I don't think I can say someone else should stay or go and if I think one or the other, I would tell them only if they asked me. I think people make decisions based on their background, FOO, personality and circumstances to name a few. Why do some people stay in a crappy job? Do they need the security? Are their circumstances such that they feel they have to?

 

My 2 cents, anyway. Probably won't matter, but I had to say, I don't think it's any better to say a person is stronger because they stayed in a marriage after infidelity than the person who chose to leave.

 

Actually i am not sure where you are getting that at all.

 

I think recovering from infidelity, stay or go, takes strength and so far no one has argued that but

 

I take objection who blanket say staying is always the easy choice and weak. That is trying to place shame on someone else for making a different descision. An you got to wonder why?

 

Even when I feel a circumstance calls for divorce i don't see getting the message accross by shaming.

[janedoe67]

Isn't it different for each person? each situation?

 

Actually I think this is the point. Just because I chose differently than others doesn't mean all the "others" are wrong, weak, stupid, etc.

 

In fact, that smacks of an arrogance that would be amusing if it weren't so sad.

[JohnMcClaine]

Does this apply to knowing you can do better in your current relationship after discovering an A?

 

I was referring to doing better in terms of another person. A partner of mine knowingly and proactively engaging in sex with another person is simply a dealbreaker for me, no matter what. It's the antithesis of the relationship and I won't stand for it, no excuses. I guess that's just what makes me me and what makes you you.

[Fluttershy]

I was referring to doing better in terms of another person. A partner of mine knowingly and proactively engaging in sex with another person is simply a dealbreaker for me, no matter what. It's the antithesis of the relationship and I won't stand for it, no excuses. I guess that's just what makes me me and what makes you you.

 

So why couldn't you say this in the first place? Instead of insulting and shaming those that chose a different path?

[Spark1111]

I have to say, I'm not sure why it is OK to say a person is stronger for staying, but a person is not stronger for leaving. I think a lot of posters don't like the way the poster has said he thinks a person is stronger for leaving, but that doesn't mean he is wrong. Isn't it different for each person? each situation?

 

I stayed the first time. It was not easy; this is true. There were some very difficult parts of staying and one was how I felt about staying with a person who would do that to me. I kept my family together - that part made it easier. I kept my finances sort of intact - that part was easier.

 

I left the second time. I had cared for him - sick and almost dead and God knows, I gave what I had to the marriage. He cheated again and I left. I lost my house, my money, I work 2 jobs to help my son finish college (by myself), I am in year one of a 5 year bankruptcy repayment plan, my family is not together anymore and if anyone thinks that didn't take strength - well, then that's OK. I know what it took.

 

My point is that most people on this thread think they made the harder choice by staying. That is not always true and I don't think I can say someone else should stay or go and if I think one or the other, I would tell them only if they asked me. I think people make decisions based on their background, FOO, personality and circumstances to name a few. Why do some people stay in a crappy job? Do they need the security? Are their circumstances such that they feel they have to?

 

My 2 cents, anyway. Probably won't matter, but I had to say, I don't think it's any better to say a person is stronger because they stayed in a marriage after infidelity than the person who chose to leave.

 

jeez....I hope no one would say this....

 

Whether you chose to stay or divorce, both choices are incredibly difficult; both take incredible courage.

 

Knowing your own heart might take the most courage of all....

 

I am not weak, no matter what I chose to do. I did the best I could with the knowledge, actions and options I had.

 

At the end of my days, I can confidently say I OWN the choices I made, given what I had at that time.

 

What can I regret about that?

 

NOTHING, IMHO.

[HermioneG]

You have known several betrayed spouses who have lost a child who found infidelity much worse, I doubt it!!!! Disgusting to compare

 

I have.

 

Infidelity was far harder to recover from, for me.

 

The loss of my child was awful.

 

But it wasn't on purpose or a willful harm.

 

My experience is not unusual to feel the way I do. There are many people who have felt the same way.

[HermioneG]

If my words on a forum describing the feelings of several, but not near all, of the betrayed spouses I have helped over the years in real life is disgusting, then how do you live with yourself and your behavior as an other woman? Isn't that ACTION more "disgusting", than mere words?

 

Were I inclined to take the words of an active other woman seriously I would tell her that I find it disgusting for her to minimize the pain a betrayed spouse feels by stating it's disgusting for them to feel the loss of child was easier to come to grips with than the betrayal of their spouse who had promised to love, honor and cherish them forsaking all others until death do us part. To SOME people and in some situations, death is natural and understandable. There is a natural order to it whereas betrayal is nasty evil with no explanation, justification or reason. People live and they die but they don't have to cheat.

 

Further, I'm not saying they are right or wrong. We ARE talking about feelings here, not facts and nobody is wishing death upon anyone or making any indication that they'd rather lose a kid than have their spouse cheat. I'm certain every one of them would have their spouse cheat 1000 times if they could have their child back.

 

whatever.

 

For the record, the last paragraph? Absolutely.

[Steen719]

jeez....I hope no one would say this....

 

Whether you chose to stay or divorce, both choices are incredibly difficult; both take incredible courage.

 

Knowing your own heart might take the most courage of all....

 

I am not weak, no matter what I chose to do. I did the best I could with the knowledge, actions and options I had.

 

At the end of my days, I can confidently say I OWN the choices I made, given what I had at that time.

 

What can I regret about that?

 

NOTHING, IMHO.

 

Yes, I agree, Spark. We have to do what each of us have to do and I can't say what is best for anyone else. I am not walking in their shoes. I would never advocate for shame and those who know me, even on here, know that. We all are in or have been in situations we wish we did not have to be in. My idea of support is that it should be honest, but caring and I think you are the same .

[Spark1111]

I have.

 

Infidelity was far harder to recover from, for me.

 

The loss of my child was awful.

 

But it wasn't on purpose or a willful harm.

 

My experience is not unusual to feel the way I do. There are many people who have felt the same way.

 

I had a loving, creative, but benignly neglectful alcoholic father and a mother who descended, psychotically, into mental illness.

 

I overcame it, and even as a young child, I realized it was not intentional. They tried to fight it and sought help, but the help provided then was not what is given today.....

 

I forgave them because I witnessed their fight to change and be better for me and their helplessness when they did not have the resources to do so.

 

I lost a brother in a car accident, suddenly and unexpectedly, when another crashed into him in broad daylight....reasons unknown. It took me six months to realize this was an accident in the purest sense of the word.

 

Willful....great word. So apt. It took me YEARS to overcome my fWS's infidelity.

 

I married, because he begged me to, the only man I felt safe with...enough to commit to and marry.

 

And the willful intent...to lie, deceive and betray me...was the hardest thing I have ever had to overcome.

[Just_AGuy]

I think trying to re-built is much harder than leaving. At least for men (when woman cheats). If somebody (my friend) would say he tries to rebuild I would not think about it as a weak choice. But if I hear that same thing happens again and again and my friend still trying to rebuild even when it is obvious that it will not work then I would think he is just playing victim. And that I would consider a weak choice.

[BetrayedH]

I think trying to re-built is much harder than leaving. At least for men (when woman cheats).

 

That's pretty subjective. Somewhat like Steen, I went thru both and they both sucked. My kids are from a broken family now. The statistics for kids of divorce are frankly, awful. Reconciliation and divorce are both hard and both suck.

[experiencethedevine]

I had a loving, creative, but benignly neglectful alcoholic father and a mother who descended, psychotically, into mental illness.

 

I overcame it, and even as a young child, I realized it was not intentional. They tried to fight it and sought help, but the help provided then was not what is given today.....

 

I forgave them because I witnessed their fight to change and be better for me and their helplessness when they did not have the resources to do so.

 

I lost a brother in a car accident, suddenly and unexpectedly, when another crashed into him in broad daylight....reasons unknown. It took me six months to realize this was an accident in the purest sense of the word.

 

Willful....great word. So apt. It took me YEARS to overcome my fWS's infidelity.

 

I married, because he begged me to, the only man I felt safe with...enough to commit to and marry.

 

And the willful intent...to lie, deceive and betray me...was the hardest thing I have ever had to overcome.

 

 

Around the middle of my husband's near four year affair, our second daughter was expecting our first grandchild. I was elated and ecstatic with the promise of this new life about to bless our family.

 

 

My husband was at the time working 3 months overseas, 3 months at home and I mistook what I later saw as his apathy and neglect as simply not being available when at work. I was also in the midst of an MRES in support of my professional development, so we were all incredibly busy in different ways.

 

 

In her third trimester, at 28 weeks, our little granddaughter who had been named after my recently deceased Mother, was stillborn. The devastation is indescribable. So much hope and happiness gone. Although on a professional level, I had witnessed such a tragedy, to see one's own daughter suffer such a terrible loss is beyond all comprehension prior to its reality. I have never known such agony on behalf of my own child.

 

 

A year and a half later, my own world fell apart when I discovered the man I chose as my life long partner had betrayed me in the worst possible way, I can tell you that like all of you, I have never felt so utterly and completely demolished in a single emotional blow.

 

 

Akin to you Sparks, it also took years to recover from such a blow, and was vastly different to the grieving process of losing a loved one.

 

 

Today we have two beautiful grandchildren whom we adore, and my husband is a vastly different man to the one he was back then, but the difference is that having recovered from the grief of the loss of our granddaughter over time, our memories are softer and a reminder of the delicacies of life and human frailty, whereas the memories of infidelity provide no softness and are a reminder of a lack of integrity and honesty.

 

 

My granddaughter was a gift for a very short time that I will always treasure.

 

 

My husbands betrayal was no gift at all.

[jnel921]

Since I have experienced both D and R with my WH's. I can honestly say there was more shame with the one I D. It was a facade from the beginning. He lied to my family and his and put me through a living hell. I was pregnant with a 1 year old and his family took his side. No help, no calls, nothing, he left me pretty much holding the bag while he sowed his oats. He didn't care.

 

Prior to this I put this man on a pedestal and moved heaven and earth to achieve our goals. How did I look after he left? My xH has never been remorseful and he has never changed!

 

My current H and I are R. I have not disclosed our situation to anyone. It is not their business unless we were to D . The only time I found myself feeling shame was when he asked me to his coworkers retirement party. But then I realized with the help of my LS family that I have nothing to be ashamed of.

[experiencethedevine]

Since I have experienced both D and R with my WH's. I can honestly say there was more shame with the one I D. It was a facade from the beginning. He lied to my family and his and put me through a living hell. I was pregnant with a 1 year old and his family took his side. No help, no calls, nothing, he left me pretty much holding the bag while he sowed his oats. He didn't care.

 

Prior to this I put this man on a pedestal and moved heaven and earth to achieve our goals. How did I look after he left? My xH has never been remorseful and he has never changed!

 

My current H and I are R. I have not disclosed our situation to anyone. It is not their business unless we were to D . The only time I found myself feeling shame was when he asked me to his coworkers retirement party. But then I realized with the help of my LS family that I have nothing to be ashamed of.

 

 

Most emphatically not jnel! Bravo! x

[William]

As a reminder folks, comments on the topic are welcomed. Analysis and commentary on other members is also welcomed through the 'alert us' link. Engaging in such discussions on-forum is the path to suspension. Cleaned the mess up as best possible. Carry on.

[ladydesigner]

Reconciliation and divorce are both hard and both suck.

 

This is what I think, both options suck

[experiencethedevine]

This is what I think, both options suck

 

 

Agreed. Both are incredibly difficult, and whichever one chooses is fraught with inevitable long term scarring.

[Confused48]

Originally Posted by BetrayedH

Reconciliation and divorce are both hard and both suck.

 

This is what I think, both options suck

 

Yes of course. But we have that jack @ss on here saying divorce is great! Great for him, great for kids. Everyone should do it!!! If you don't do it you are an idiot and doomed to be cheated on repeatedly.

 

Yet he did it and was cheated on twice so I guess anyone can get cheated on. Even a know it all divorce happy guy like that.

[JohnMcClaine]

Yet he did it and was cheated on twice so I guess anyone can get cheated on. Even a know it all divorce happy guy like that.

 

That is exactly the logic that I find so shocking in this thread. This approach that you might as well work it out with an unfaithful partner because a new one will probably cheat on you too.

 

As I stated earlier, some people are ok with their partner stepping out on them. I'm not. Standing up for myself means more to me than settling for someone who is unfaithful.

Edited January 29, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator