Is there shame in staying?

[janedoe67]

I lost a friend in high school at the hands of someone else. There will never be anything good about that event. After the event, several people who had had drinking problems were shaken to their core and stopped drinking. The event was NOT good nor will it ever be. However, it WAS the catalyst for a couple of teen alcoholics (or those who were on their way to be) to stop drinking. I can see the distinction between the change in their lives being good and the accident itself being good. This is the same thing, and I suspect those who want to can see the distinction. Those who don't - that choice (like all choices we make) is on them.

[Owl]

It has just always rubbed me the wrong way, I think that comes from reading articles where people were saying that they were thankful for the affair, and all of the good that came from it, but they were rug sweepers. And you don't sound like you fit in that category. I will always maintain that nothing good comes from an affair, but your overall statements are not saying that anyway (other than the one statement, which I still disagree with your wording at least).

 

I just wanted to make a point of clarification on my viewpoint at least. I am in NO way 'thankful' for the affair. Not at all...not in the least bit.

 

It sucked...it was one of the worst things I've ever had to deal with.

 

My point was that we were able to take that horrific event and use it as a catalyst for change. I've spelled it out many times that it is NOT how I would have wanted that change to come about...there were far better ways my wife could have handled the whole situation.

 

I think there's a huge distinction between someone saying "we made positive changes in our marriage as a result of my spouse's bad choice to have an affair" and someone "being thankful for the affair".

 

I am NOT thankful that it happened. There were indeed other ways that things COULD have changed...but that's not how my marriage worked out, unfortunately.

 

But the difference between "being thankful" and noting that we were able to take the crap situation of the affair and work things so that we got a 'good' thing out of it is completely seperate.

[Ap22]

I just wanted to make a point of clarification on my viewpoint at least. I am in NO way 'thankful' for the affair. Not at all...not in the least bit.

 

It sucked...it was one of the worst things I've ever had to deal with.

 

My point was that we were able to take that horrific event and use it as a catalyst for change. I've spelled it out many times that it is NOT how I would have wanted that change to come about...there were far better ways my wife could have handled the whole situation.

 

I think there's a huge distinction between someone saying "we made positive changes in our marriage as a result of my spouse's bad choice to have an affair" and someone "being thankful for the affair".

 

I am NOT thankful that it happened. There were indeed other ways that things COULD have changed...but that's not how my marriage worked out, unfortunately.

 

But the difference between "being thankful" and noting that we were able to take the crap situation of the affair and work things so that we got a 'good' thing out of it is completely seperate.

 

 

I dont understand how people dont understand this. We arent thankful and its not the best thing to have happened. What we are referring to is the change in one or both partners. Yes, it was the worst possible way to change, but some people have to learn the hard way.

 

Sometimes someone has to hit rock bottom before they see the error of their ways or see how truly hurtful they have become. Sometimes the shock on dday is just as bad for the WS and it is the BS.

[BHsigh]

Sometimes the shock on dday is just as bad for the WS and it is the BS.

 

Pfft, and now we're treading on really ridiculous territory, I can in no way possible imagine that a dday can be just as bad for the ws as it is for the bs having their world torn apart because of the ws. It may be bad for them, but it was because of their own doing, and I may pity the some ws's, but pity is never a good thing.

 

And I'm going to leave this thread alone before this gets worse.

[Fluttershy]

Pfft, and now we're treading on really ridiculous territory, I can in no way possible imagine that a dday can be just as bad for the ws as it is for the bs having their world torn apart because of the ws. It may be bad for them, but it was because of their own doing, and I may pity the some ws's, but pity is never a good thing.

 

And I'm going to leave this thread alone before this gets worse.

 

I wouldn't say on DDay in most cases. Lots of times it takes a while for the WS to wake up. But as my H confessed and shared thigs with me later on I can say as someone who regretted his every step disclosure day was brutal on him too. I am never a fan of people comparing things. But I do know what he went through that was nobody's fault but his own was not something that can be compared or minimalized. It was his own self inflicted pain that I will never experience.

 

In fact I think many a WS try to stay in the fantasy land of the A and minimize it and justify it not just because they don't want to lose their cake but also because they just aren't strongenough or willing enough to take responsibility.

 

 

At the end of the day, I'd rather have the knife in my back than in my hand.

 

I am sorry BHsigh that you have given up on life already. I do hope you change your mind one day and start making a life you can filly enjoy!

[BHsigh]

I wouldn't say on DDay in most cases. Lots of times it takes a while for the WS to wake up. But as my H confessed and shared thigs with me later on I can say as someone who regretted his every step disclosure day was brutal on him too. I am never a fan of people comparing things. But I do know what he went through that was nobody's fault but his own was not something that can be compared or minimalized. It was his own self inflicted pain that I will never experience.

 

In fact I think many a WS try to stay in the fantasy land of the A and minimize it and justify it not just because they don't want to lose their cake but also because they just aren't strongenough or willing enough to take responsibility.

 

 

At the end of the day, I'd rather have the knife in my back than in my hand.

 

I am sorry BHsigh that you have given up on life already. I do hope you change your mind one day and start making a life you can filly enjoy!

 

Don't give me your condensending apology, I have in no way given up on life, I love my life, it is full and fun. I am in college again changing my career, I am making amazing grades, learning a lot and am excited about my path, particularly now that I don't have to worry about other people anymore. My version of happiness may be different than yours, but I am much happier with my hard earned outlook than I have ever been before.

 

I kind of get the argument that your husbands affair helped cause your current happiness, but I will never, ever even consider that the ws has it anywhere as hard as the bs, no matter what you say your husband went through, that is an apologetic way to excuse the ws, and nothing more, and frankly, it is a slap in the face to all of the bs's out there. You may pity a person for their self inflicted wound, you may try to help them, but to bundle them with others that they have wounded is ridiculous. It's not even an entertaining theory, it's like saying "that poor suicide bomber, we have to feel bad for him, he got hurt just as bad as the other people that he blew up."

 

How do I block a thread, this is drawing me back like the rubbernecks to a car accident.

[janedoe67]

At the end of the day I'd say yes there is. What it comes down to is you saying that this type of treatment and behavior is ok and that you feel you aren't deserving of someone who would never hurt you in such a way. I'm sure some feel different, but for me, we can have all the problems in the world and work them out..as long as you do not bring another person into this marriage. Once you do, it's gone. Just like that, if you cant keep others out of your marriage then what is the point? It's not something that is hard, we are not talking about having just a boyfriend or girlfriend, but a marriage. If you can't set aside all your issues and refrain from cheating until you have separated then there are all sorts of issues. Sorry, nobody needs sex that badly, and I say this as a guy. There will never be an occasion where I say "this sex can't wait until I act like an adult and break up with my partner".

 

This is a perfectly valid opinion.

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

[Fluttershy]

Don't give me your condensending apology, I have in no way given up on life, I love my life, it is full and fun. I am in college again changing my career, I am making amazing grades, learning a lot and am excited about my path, particularly now that I don't have to worry about other people anymore. My version of happiness may be different than yours, but I am much happier with my hard earned outlook than I have ever been before.

 

I kind of get the argument that your husbands affair helped cause your current happiness, but I will never, ever even consider that the ws has it anywhere as hard as the bs, no matter what you say your husband went through, that is an apologetic way to excuse the ws, and nothing more, and frankly, it is a slap in the face to all of the bs's out there. You may pity a person for their self inflicted wound, you may try to help them, but to bundle them with others that they have wounded is ridiculous. It's not even an entertaining theory, it's like saying "that poor suicide bomber, we have to feel bad for him, he got hurt just as bad as the other people that he blew up."

 

How do I block a thread, this is drawing me back like the rubbernecks to a car accident.

 

 

I am sorry... I think you very much misunderstood my post. I said I couldn't compare because it is "different pain" not the same or as great. Just a different pain I don't want to know. I know when I have let myself down in other ways in my life it has been very hard. Not everyone is hard on them selves over failures but my H is. So I know it must have sucked.

 

As to the first part I am really sorry I offended you. Your posts seemed so full of uhappiness and negativity and bitterness it just seemed like you have given up. I guess I read to much into that. I apologize for what I only meant as an encorgement.

[BHsigh]

I've only given up on people, not life itself. And I've only given up on people because I know in my heart that one more betrayal will make me give up on life, it just feels like I've reached the end of my coping ability.

 

 

Honestly, I feel better this way, not having to worry about people, friends, family etc. Because I am unattached to anyone, the closest to me right now are my wife (who I don't trust obviously) and my kids, my two daughters will always be a part of my life.

 

 

But that's it. No more allowed in. And I really can understand how people can see this as unhappy, or unhealthy, we've been told all of our life to have friends etc. But it works for me. I have light acquaintances at work and college, and that's more than enough.

[tired girl]

I've only given up on people, not life itself. And I've only given up on people because I know in my heart that one more betrayal will make me give up on life, it just feels like I've reached the end of my coping ability.

 

I understand this feeling. However, I am trying to get help so that hopefully I don't have to go through the rest of my life feeling this way. I understand that it hasn't been just this experience that led me to feel this way.

 

I wouldn't say on DDay in most cases. Lots of times it takes a while for the WS to wake up. But as my H confessed and shared thigs with me later on I can say as someone who regretted his every step disclosure day was brutal on him too. I am never a fan of people comparing things. But I do know what he went through that was nobody's fault but his own was not something that can be compared or minimalized. It was his own self inflicted pain that I will never experience.

 

In fact I think many a WS try to stay in the fantasy land of the A and minimize it and justify it not just because they don't want to lose their cake but also because they just aren't strongenough or willing enough to take responsibility.

 

 

At the end of the day, I'd rather have the knife in my back than in my hand.

 

While you may not understand it, and may not agree with it, it doesn't make it not true. I have been both the WS and the BS. The pain I felt as the BS has not been as bad as the pain I felt as the WS. I have not come close to forgiving myself for what I did. I have pretty much forgiven my H. I cannot get past the betrayal to myself, to what I believed about myself. I allowed myself to become changed, I haven't forgiven that yet. To lose who you are over what someone else did and then make choices that you never thought you would make, that pain is worse to me. As a BS, I know his choices were not about me. Ask me how I know that.

[BHsigh]

I understand this feeling. However, I am trying to get help so that hopefully I don't have to go through the rest of my life feeling this way. I understand that it hasn't been just this experience that led me to feel this way.

 

 

 

While you may not understand it, and may not agree with it, it doesn't make it not true. I have been both the WS and the BS. The pain I felt as the BS has not been as bad as the pain I felt as the WS. I have not come close to forgiving myself for what I did. I have pretty much forgiven my H. I cannot get past the betrayal to myself, to what I believed about myself. I allowed myself to become changed, I haven't forgiven that yet. To lose who you are over what someone else did and then make choices that you never thought you would make, that pain is worse to me. As a BS, I know his choices were not about me. Ask me how I know that.

 

Sorry, but experiencing both jades the entire experience completely. I completely believe that a former BS turned WS would feel much worse as a WS, mainly because they understand what the BS is going through, and a WS turned BS would have some understanding, and perhaps a little more forgiveness. So nope, my point stands, maybe not in every situation, such as yours, but I will never budge on that, it's still a slap in the face to the BS.

 

I understand that the WS's choices are about themselves and not the BS, but having lived through multiple, multiple betrayals, (not only being cheated on by 4 different people) I know that there is something in me that's helps to cause these betrayals, otherwise it wouldn't happen so often, I could understand once or twice, but not 4 that I know of. So knowing that there's something wrong with me, and that people are generally extremely selfish and only care about themselves, I am happy with my decision to leave people out of my life.

Edited February 1, 2014 by BHsigh

[tired girl]

but having lived through multiple, multiple betrayals, (not only being cheated on by 4 different people) I know that there is something in me that's helps to cause these betrayals, otherwise it wouldn't happen so often, I could understand once or twice, but not 4 that I know of. So knowing that there's something wrong with me, and that people are generally extremely selfish and only care about themselves, I am happy with my decision to leave people out of my life.

 

There may be something there that caused you to pick these people, that part is true. But you did not cause their actions. That is all on them. Don't take that part on. To take that part on, makes their actions all about you, and that just isn't the case. Their brokeness is about them.

 

I also had to look at why I picked my H, and my husband has looked at why he picked me. It is something that should be looked at.

[BHsigh]

That's kind of what I was getting at, I am horrible at picking people to trust, I try to scrutinize but it always turns around and bites me anyways. Case in point, when we moved to another state because on my job, we worked hard to find friends as a couple, one woman at the apartments that we lived in, my wife didn't really like her at first, so we avoided her. One day I had my daughters at the playground, and this woman was there with her daughter, she left the group of woman and came over to me and said "all they do is gossip", and we started talking. I told my wife when she got home that this woman seemed pretty nice, and maybe we misjudged her. So we started to talk to her more and we became really good friends with her. We also became friends with our community safety officer (police officer), one of his friends, and another woman from the apartments. The community safety officers friend became the POSOM, the police officer became POSOM2 (sexting is all that I was able to catch, and neither of them would budge on more) and the two woman knew about the affair all along and helped hide it from me.

 

So I don't bother anymore, and the people that approach me I push away to acquaintance status because I don't trust them either. I'm better off without people, I still get along with people very well, people of all ages and backgrounds, this serves me very well at my current job working internationally, and will serve me well in my future career change. I seem to be too easy to get along with, and I'm fairly quiet, so people naturally like to talk to me.

 

But I am now leaving it at that, and am happy to have reached the point that I do not want/need friends or anyone else (family included, other than my daughters of course). If/when my current relationship fails, I know for a fact that I will not pursue another close relationship, and if I fall into one, I will insist that it be a open one from the very start.

 

Close love is a fallacy to me now, I no longer believe in it, and likely never will again.