Is there shame in staying?

[seren]

In the early days I felt ashamed that I had been a vocal, 'It will never happen to us and a, if it does, he is gone' type of person. When it did happen I questioned if my view had been one of complacency or just all encompassing trust, whether it was arrogance to think it would never happen to me or just complete blind faith in our marriage. I remember apologising to some of the BS's I had said this too and vowed to never say never, ever again.

 

My job was high profile, I had an assertive, not to be messed with (not in an aggressive way, more a say it as it is way) reputation. That H had an A and that he had it with who he did made me feel less than. No one could believe he would do this, we were the couple who everyone said how they wished they were like together, how loving and happy we were, I believed that too.

 

I remember being in work and going out back for a smoke, normally I would be having a laugh with the rest of the smokers, after D Day i couldn't face anyone, I overheard a conversation about me and H and the A, it was all about, he must be mad, about the OW and what she was like and then the discussion about how everyone thought I would walk away after taking both their lives to pieces. Couldn't be further from the truth of how I was feeling, I wanted to curl up and die, I felt ashamed for me and H. For me because in the early days and the seeking of the why's I could only look at myself and put the blame on me. I was working to hard, I was away a lot, I had missed something, I was boring and even, I had cancer. For H, I was ashamed that he had chosen the OW he had, part of me felt, if you are going to have an A, why the hell couldn't it have been someone different. I know, irrational and unfair, but truthful.

 

As it all unfolded and the truth became known and the reasons more explained, I understood why her, I almost understood the A and I began to shift my feelings of shame in myself to anger at the whole thing. I thought long and hard about what had to happen in order for us to have a chance at reconciliation. H and I discussed what needed to change. I drew my line in the sand and told him that if he wanted to be with OW, then we would split as amicably as I could, but, if he wanted to stay we had work to do, together. I felt and feel no shame at staying. It has been the hardest thing I have ever done, but here we are 6 years down the line and happier than I could have thought possible. I feel no shame at taking control of a crappy situation and working it out.

 

Had I stayed and there been no change, had H continued seeing OW I would feel shame as I would be compromising my own values. I don't knowingly share the man I love, I place too much value on me. H, however is a different kettle of fish, seeing him at times go through guilt, remorse, putting himself down hurts. I now work to help him deal with his shame, I don't want or need it, I just wish he could forgive himself.

 

Everyone has to do what sits best with them, either stay or go, an A and its aftermath isn't something any BS signs up for. I have seen a number of posts here and elsewhere of BS being called doormats, fools etc for staying, of people saying they would never stay, of others that the marriage can never survive. Well, I don't agree, a doormat lets themselves put up with something they don't want to, a marriage can survive, even grow stronger after an A, or some will decide that there just isn't enough for them to want to stay. If you have facts and choose to make an informed choice, there is no shame in that and no one should make you feel otherwise.

[experiencethedevine]

seren, a profound post that will give many the opportunity for a little reflection.

 

 

Thankyou.

[painfullyobvious]

My reconciliation did not last too long but I remember the shame and embarrassment that it seemed like so many people knew about the cheating. I felt like I was an idiot for staying because everyone knew my ex had cheated and there I was standing by her as she continued to cheat I might add. I do not think we are weak it is easy to leave and no one can fault a person for leaving. Staying is harder and putting the work in was so hard like I said I couldn't do it. The shame seems to come not from ourselves but from what we believe others are thinking of us.

 

 

Honestly I was ashamed of my so called friends and her family when it all surfaced because no one had the decency to clue me in on the cheating. They thought I knew or chose a side. As I worked on the relationship the shame quickly went away as we or shall I say in my case I tried to work on the relationship. If you are a person who cares what other people think I think shame can last quite long. If you are social status person you may never quite find yourself at peace because you will always feel like others know about your situation.

[VeronicaRoss]

It comes down to the particular situation. How much of an aberration is the affair from what they normally do? Do they cheat or portray themselves one way and act another and you just accept it? You stay because of their social status, finances, you don't think anyone else would take you, or because they're so much fun? Then yes, there should be shame in that because you can only blame your own vanity for thinking they wouldn't hurt special 'ol you.

 

But some couples are dealing with an affair that is a real aberration from a spouses behavior. If you've known them for years and it's a first, I don't think there is shame in staying at all.

 

And sometimes an affair is the first indication of a much darker problem, you have to go on watch and figure it out, maybe even look at the past closer.

 

I was cheated on by a couple of boyfriends. Both of these guys were salt of the earth, sweet, sensitive men who made a big show of going out of their way to help others and be 'the good guy' others could count on.

 

I woke up one morning and it hit me that the guy I was sleeping next to me had overlapping romantic histories. When he woke up and asked him about the timelines and sure enough *every* relationship he had gotten involved with someone else to break up with the next one. We broke up. He convinced me I was special, he even when to sex addiction meetings. But what happened was the rage that was in him started to come out. And then he broke up with me, and he had already started another relationship with a woman he eventually married. It's probably still going on. I learned my lesson, if someone is a serial anything I'm staying away.

 

After we broke up in both cases their friends rushed forward to let me know this was not the first time and how disgusted they were with the guys. Ugh, why were they still good friends with someone like that? It's weird how people think if someone cheats over and over that somehow that character issue is isolated and won't bite them as friends somehow.

 

There is definitely shame in that imho.

[Confused48]

shame seems to come not from ourselves but from what we believe others are thinking of us.

 

I agree. I felt, feel, shame for many reasons others have stated. Mainly though I feel it is unfair, unjust, to not require justice. I feel like if my spouse robbed a bank, I'd say something. I'd have to. Here my spouse did something very bad and I'm covering it up as best I can. I don't feel good about that. The alternative seems worse.

[drifter777]

I have a deep, consuming self-loathing for reconciling with my cheating wife. Way beyond shame - I really hate myself and wonder whatever happened to me to make me such a weak, disgusting man who would accept a cheater back into my life.

 

Don't bother pointing out that I can leave at any time because I can't. Since my daughter decided drugs are more fun then being a mom I have to raise my grandson and I cannot do it without my wife. We are fighting in court for custody and not being married/living together would be the end of the case. I can't do that to my grandson so will do whatever I have to do to make him a home. His life is more important than mine.

 

It's not the decision to not divorce her now that I agonize over. It's the horrible mistake I made reconciling all those years ago. I was weak and afraid of being alone. I was trying to keep from destroying my family because I needed the security that it gave me. All short-sighted, weak decisions that I am ashamed of and regret every day.

[thummper]

I have a deep, consuming self-loathing for reconciling with my cheating wife. Way beyond shame - I really hate myself and wonder whatever happened to me to make me such a weak, disgusting man who would accept a cheater back into my life.

Don't bother pointing out that I can leave at any time because I can't. Since my daughter decided drugs are more fun then being a mom I have to raise my grandson and I cannot do it without my wife. We are fighting in court for custody and not being married/living together would be the end of the case. I can't do that to my grandson so will do whatever I have to do to make him a home. His life is more important than mine.

 

It's not the decision to not divorce her now that I agonize over. It's the horrible mistake I made reconciling all those years ago. I was weak and afraid of being alone. I was trying to keep from destroying my family because I needed the security that it gave me. All short-sighted, weak decisions that I am ashamed of and regret every day.

 

 

 

Or maybe you really DID love this lady and couldn't bear to have her forever out of your life. I don't call that "weak," Maybe you were remembering all the good times you had with her before she gave in to her choice to wander.

[Ap22]

I struggle with this everyday. I totally understand the feeling that the WS "got away with it". Its been just over 2 months since I found out about my wifes affair.

 

I'm doing a lot better now but everyday I make myself get angry at her, even if I dont show it to her. I dont feel shame, I know she does and she should.

 

I never imagined I would stay with my wife after cheating on me. If it wasnt for my 5 year old daughter, I would have left her ass.

[janedoe67]

It is my belief that if someone is full of shame for staying, they should leave. For them and for their FWS. Because they cannot heal if they feel such shame, and if the spouse is truly repentant and changed, then they should not have to live KNOWING how their spouse feels about staying. And trust me, they DO know.

[JohnMcClaine]

I'll never know what this is like. I have too much dignity and self-respect. And yes, I've been faced with the situation twice. I couldn't imagine wanting to stay with someone who has cheated on me while knowing there are people out there who you don't have to worry about that with, but then again, starting over and finding that someone takes fortitude. Not many people have that fortitude.

[experiencethedevine]

I have a deep, consuming self-loathing for reconciling with my cheating wife. Way beyond shame - I really hate myself and wonder whatever happened to me to make me such a weak, disgusting man who would accept a cheater back into my life.

 

Don't bother pointing out that I can leave at any time because I can't. Since my daughter decided drugs are more fun then being a mom I have to raise my grandson and I cannot do it without my wife. We are fighting in court for custody and not being married/living together would be the end of the case. I can't do that to my grandson so will do whatever I have to do to make him a home. His life is more important than mine.

 

It's not the decision to not divorce her now that I agonize over. It's the horrible mistake I made reconciling all those years ago. I was weak and afraid of being alone. I was trying to keep from destroying my family because I needed the security that it gave me. All short-sighted, weak decisions that I am ashamed of and regret every day.

 

 

 

 

Your honour and integrity remain intact Drifter, and your personal sacrifices to ensure your grandson's future are gargantuan. I commend your efforts to secure your grandson's well being.

 

 

I hope one day he will see what a remarkable individual his grandfather is, and I sincerely hope for you that your sacrifices are rewarded with some future happiness of your own.

[katielee]

I don't have to stay - the kids are grown, I make my own money. I'm here because I love this man and I have hope. When he cheated he degraded himself, not me, even though I was horribly hurt, I wasn't ashamed. I thought lots of other stuff though!

 

We live in a smaller type community and a lot of crap went down between hubby and I. i suppose people out there know what happened - or parts of it - and judge both of us. That is their problem, not ours. I had to make steps and leaps beyond what other people think of me, and this I learned from healing as a former wayward. If one is letting what other people think of you determine your life choices, well, that is no way to live.

 

There is no easier way through this - leaving or staying. If I end up leaving it wont' be because I didn't try hard enough.

[janedoe67]

I'll never know what this is like. I have too much dignity and self-respect. And yes, I've been faced with the situation twice. I couldn't imagine wanting to stay with someone who has cheated on me while knowing there are people out there who you don't have to worry about that with, but then again, starting over and finding that someone takes fortitude. Not many people have that fortitude.

 

I realize you consider yourself the authority on this subject, based on the undertones of this entire post...but maybe some people define fortitude as trying to fix something that is broken instead of walking away.

 

Like I said, those who are secure in THEIR choices don't have to denegrate the choices of others.

[oldshirt]

I couldn't imagine wanting to stay with someone who has cheated on me while knowing there are people out there who you don't have to worry about that with, .

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think that is true at all. I don't think there are two different kinds of people coming out of two different molds. I don't think there is a truly noncheater class of people out there.

 

 

Everyone is capable of cheating giving the right set of circumstances...some just have a lower threshold than others.

 

 

I think in a way that can factor in to people's decision to try to R or D. I think if there truly was a noncheater class of people, then people may be a little more inclined to leave and find one of them. But since everyone is capable of it and everyone would do it if given the right (or wrong in this case) set of circumstances, then R becomes a little more viable option because you know you'll have to address the circumstances in some way regardless if it with your current WS or with someone else.

[JohnMcClaine]

I realize you consider yourself the authority on this subject, based on the undertones of this entire post...but maybe some people define fortitude as trying to fix something that is broken instead of walking away.

 

Every single person that I know who has stayed with a cheater did so because they were too weak to leave them. And in the vast majority of cases, it happened again. That's not broken, that's destroyed. Some people have more self-respect than to try to sleep at night knowing their partner has made love to someone else. The worst part is in the case where they have children, in which case they are practically telling their children it's ok to put up with a cheater because that's just "how things go". Disgusting.

[JohnMcClaine]

I don't think that is true at all. I don't think there are two different kinds of people coming out of two different molds. I don't think there is a truly noncheater class of people out there.

 

 

There are relationships out there where infidelity has never happened.

[Sub]

Some people have more self-respect than to try to sleep at night knowing their partner has made love to someone else.

 

I don't think you should make such sweeping generalizations about people you don't know and situations you have little knowledge of. I sleep pretty well.

[BetrayedH]

There are relationships out there where infidelity has never happened.

 

Yet, there are no guarantees with anyone. I certainly never predicted that this would happen with my wife. It could just as easily happen with the next person, no matter how innocent they seem. Some may very well feel safer with a fWS that has learned from the experience rather than with someone that has no experience with infidelity. And they may very well be right. Considering the amount of investment already made (especially with children), I don't fault anyone for making an attempt at reconciliation; I just hope they have high expectations during the process.

[tired girl]

There are relationships out there where infidelity has never happened.

 

Sure are. And you are never guaranteed that it won't happen in a new relationship. Especially if you are picking broken people over and over.

 

You have a better chance staying with a remorseful FWS that has fixed themselves and won't do it again than going out and trying again with a new broken person.

 

But to each their own. I know that if I divorce, I would not be in another relationship again. Unlike you, I don't have rose colored glasses that everyone else out there plans on being faithful.

[Ap22]

Every single person that I know who has stayed with a cheater did so because they were too weak to leave them. And in the vast majority of cases, it happened again. That's not broken, that's destroyed. Some people have more self-respect than to try to sleep at night knowing their partner has made love to someone else. The worst part is in the case where they have children, in which case they are practically telling their children it's ok to put up with a cheater because that's just "how things go". Disgusting.

 

 

I dont think you really know what strength is other than from the Macho Man book you must have read. I stayed because I am strong. I stayed because my 5 year old daughter would not understand why her parents werent together anymore and I truly feel her life is much better off with me in her life everyday. I put my child above my own needs/interests/desires.

 

You sound like an internet tough guy....even down to your name. You sir, are no John McClaine, who ironically enough was a broken/weak character....not the tough guy you TRY to be

[JohnMcClaine]

You have a better chance staying with a remorseful FWS that has fixed themselves and won't do it again than going out and trying again with a new broken person.

 

But to each their own. I know that if I divorce, I would not be in another relationship again. Unlike you, I don't have rose colored glasses that everyone else out there plans on being faithful.

 

This is exactly the attitude I don't understand. You're basically just saying it's better to give up and remain with someone who has destroyed your relationship than to actually have some fortitude and put in some effort to find someone who won't do that, all because the new person "might" cheat on you too. Are you out of your mind?

[Fluttershy]

There are relationships out there where infidelity has never happened.

 

That u know of. Think of all the secret affairs that people never find out about... Or ONS.

 

I too don't believe there are cheaters and non cheaters pre affair that can be neatly divided. I know there are good honest people that make poor descisions and find themselves where they never thought they would be. You can marry the most authentic person in the world (or at least think so) and then life happens and the slide down a slippery slope.

 

Oh sure, it is easy class seriel cheaters and people who are never faithful from the get go. But even those people, who haven't faced their issues, sometimes think "this is the one, I will neer cheat on this on" but because they haven't dealt with why they cheat... They cheat again. Inoften hear on here people say "if you know you can't be faithful dont promise to be. Oh if only life were that simple.

 

I don't think everyone is capable of cheating. For some people they are way to shy for that. Then again maybe the RIGHT oppurtunity (lots of people aay they have loads of oppurtunity but not really be tempted to take them.

 

Another big mistake people make is "i will never cheat" statements. It is easy to say that and you may go thru life never tested. But a lot better statement to make is "I will not allow myself to be in a situatoon where cheating coupd happen". Ie, emotionaly close friendships with the opposite sex, too much time alone, drinking too much in compromising situations, ect. It is often the people who think they can do that that end up falling.

 

But back to the idea that there are a group of people who never cheat. Yes there are and i am in it. But I am not better than anyone who isn't. They screwed up but if now until they die they are back in the faithful group we are the same. And as fat as hoping to find someone from the "never will cheat" group. That would require a crystal ball. You can't know if your partner will cheat. But you can control yourself.

[JohnMcClaine]

I dont think you really know what strength is other than from the Macho Man book you must have read. I stayed because I am strong.

 

It's truly a testament to the times that we are living in when someone who advocates doing the right thing (i.e. leaving someone who destroys your relationship) is called out as being an internet tough guy. It's like I'm in the twilight zone.

[BHsigh]

Shame, pfft, I've felt shame my whole life, what's a little more added on top of it. But, I do admit that I am a very negative person, particularly since my wife's A.

 

I stayed with my wife, sure, but even after 2 years it kill me everyday, every single day I am haunted by the A. I am waiting for the POSOM's to die horribly, I just wish that I could hear news that it happened. They are both in high risk jobs, so I always run over the odds in my head. Sometimes I settle on them being horribly maimed, yet still alive and unable to live a normal life, I haven't really figured which would be the best.

 

I constantly read "blame the ws, not the ap", but that's bs. the AP's were my friends, or so I thought, they own it as well. And I wish upon them all of the misery that I feel and more.

 

I could have left her, but then what? I don't have friends and don't want friends, I don't trust anyone. I rejoiced when by best friend moved halfway across the country because now I don't have to worry about him backstabbing me like everyone else has. And I would never even think about starting a relationship with another woman after this.

 

So, shame? Who cares about shame. I don't really care what people think about me anymore.

[Sub]

I don't think it's for you to say what is the "right" thing in these situations. Are you saying I am wrong for R'ing with my WW?