Yet another UFO/angel thread by M30...

[M30USA]

Came across this testimony of a pilot who witnessed a life-changing event 40 years ago but has not told the public out of fear of ridicule:

 

What the Bible Says About UFOs - YouTube

 

The reason I believe him is because all the traits of his experience are textbook--even the ones which invoke laughter. I wonder if he realizes his story is typical.

[TheFinalWord]

Not sure that I buy into the "time traveling" theory. You have said in the past that visions were induced by sleep paralysis (correct me if I'm wrong?). So are they time traveling or sleep paralysis? Personally, I think neither.

[M30USA]

Not sure that I buy into the "time traveling" theory. You have said in the past that visions were induced by sleep paralysis (correct me if I'm wrong?). So are they time traveling or sleep paralysis? Personally, I think neither.

 

Yea, his phrase of "time travelling" is poorly chosen. If you read his stuff, what you'll find is that he says prophets like Daniel literally saw the future (or were SHOWN the future). So in THAT sense they time travelled. I think he just used the phrase to be catchy.

[TheFinalWord]

Yea, his phrase of "time travelling" is poorly chosen. If you read his stuff, what you'll find is that he says prophets like Daniel literally saw the future. So in THAT sense they time travelled. I think he just used the phrase to be catchy.

 

Okay. Yes, when I think of time traveling, it sounds like he means he actually took these men and women to the future so they could see first hand. If that is all he meant, I don't see why he is receiving controversial e-mail. I don't think many people would deny that prophets caught glimpses of the future. Though most of these glimpses seem to be allegorical from what I can recall. Though I would argue even "seeing" the future directly is misguided. Daniel for example interpreted a dream (actually Nebuchadnezzar's) which represented various kingdoms. He did not see the kingdoms directly, that we know of. Correct?

[M30USA]

Okay. Yes, when I think of time traveling, it sounds like he means he actually took these men and women to the future so they could see first hand. If that is all he meant, I don't see why he is receiving controversial e-mail. I don't think many people would deny that prophets caught glimpses of the future. Though most of these glimpses seem to be allegorical from what I can recall. Though I would argue even "seeing" the future directly is misguided. Daniel for example interpreted a dream (actually Nebuchadnezzar's) which represented various kingdoms. He did not see the kingdoms directly, that we know of. Correct?

 

I think Daniel saw the "Day of The Lord". Not sure how literal it was.

[TheFinalWord]

I think Daniel saw the "Day of The Lord". Not sure how literal it was.

 

Even that event consists of both a point action and a continuum of events. But there is that good ol' argument about what a "day" is in the bible. :laugh:Anyway don't want to distract your thread

[M30USA]

But, getting back go his testimony, the reason I believe him is because his account fits the mold of many other cases which have been researched by credible people such as Dr. J Allen Hyneck, etc.

 

Some of these traits are:

 

1) Hearing literal voices inside your head while in the vicinity of the UFO.

2) UFO shaped like metallic disc.

3) Electrical equipment fails while near the UFO.

4) Real or perceived telepathic communication.

5) Laughter or fright in reaction to experience. (In his case it was laughter.)

6) Altered sense of time or actual missing time documented.

Edited January 26, 2014 by M30USA

[Robert Z]

I was reminded of the testimony of the Apollo Astronaut, Ed Mitchell, who claims that he had a transcendental experience while in the void of space between the earth and the moon. He describes his experience as religious in nature and that it changed his life forever.

 

 

M30 didn't believe me when I told him that I have been in personal contact with Charles Halt, of the Rendlesham Forest incident. So he's really going to have a cow when I say that Ed Mitchell gave me his personal email address.

[M30USA]

I was reminded of the testimony of the Apollo Astronaut, Ed Mitchell, who claims that he had a transcendental experience while in the void of space between the earth and the moon. He describes his experience as religious in nature and that it changed his life forever.

 

 

M30 didn't believe me when I told him that I have been in personal contact with Charles Halt, of the Rendlesham Forest incident. So he's really going to have a cow when I say that Ed Mitchell gave me his personal email address.

 

Dude, you are talking out of your @ss. Audio recording or it didn't happen.

[TheFinalWord]

But, getting back go his testimony, the reason I believe him is because his account fits the mold of many other cases which have been researched by credible people such as Dr. J Allen Hyneck, etc.

 

Some of these traits are:

 

1) Hearing literal voices inside your head while in the vicinity of the UFO.

2) UFO shaped like metallic disc.

3) Electrical equipment fails while near the UFO.

4) Real or perceived telepathic communication.

5) Laughter or fright in reaction to experience. (In his case it was laughter.)

6) Altered sense of time or actual missing time documented.

 

What is the difference between 1 and 4?

 

Also, I don't know any of these people, but appealing to authorities does not really matter to me. If anything, I am more likely to take my father's word for it (my dad and his brothers saw a UFO). Yet, none of the traits listed above fit their observations.

[M30USA]

What is the difference between 1 and 4?

 

Also, I don't know any of these people, but appealing to authorities does not really matter to me. If anything, I am more likely to take my father's word for it (my dad and his brothers saw a UFO). Yet, none of the traits listed above fit their observations.

 

Some encounters are from far off while some are very personal. There are various degrees. Dr J Allen Hynek, who was consulted by Spielberg for his famous movie, developed the following scale (taken from Wikipedia):

 

1) Nocturnal Lights

Lights in the night sky.

 

2) Daylight Discs

UFOs seen in the daytime, generally having discoidal or oval shapes.

 

3) Radar-Visual

UFO reports that seem to have radar confirmation. Though seeming to offer harder evidence of physical reality, the vagaries of radar propagation often make the ascription ambiguous.

 

4) Close Encounters of the First kind

Visual sightings of an unidentified flying object seemingly less than 500 feet away that show an appreciable angular extension and considerable detail.

 

5) Close Encounters of the Second kind

A UFO event in which a physical effect is alleged. This can be interference in the functioning of a vehicle or electronic device; animals reacting; a physiological effect such as paralysis or heat and discomfort in the witness; or some physical trace like impressions in the ground, scorching or effecting vegetation, or a chemical trace.

 

6)Close Encounters of the Third kind

UFO encounters in which an animated creature is present. These include humanoids, robots, and human who seemed to be occupants or pilots of a UFO.

[M30USA]

TFW, to answer your question about the difference between 1 and 4, there seem to be cases of both. Paul evidently heard an audible voice from heaven which was Christ. (I want to be clear that I don't substitute UFOs for the Word of God. Whatever beings and/or vehicles are out there, Christ is not just one of them. He is creator and lord over all things.)

 

An interesting case of the other type of communication (non-audible) involved 60 school children in Zimbabwe. It was researched by Dr Mack of Harvard. They all were at recess and came running into the schoolhouse screaming in terror. All the kids were questioned and individually they recounted the same story. A circular craft appeared in the woods near playground, some tall and thin beings came out, looked at them, then left. Dr Mack asked if they said anything. The kids said no but most of them FELT like they were telling them that some kind of cataclysm was coming and also that our earth is in danger with regard to the environment. When asked how the kids got that information, none of them knew. They just said they FELT like the beings wanted them to know that.

 

Excerpt from a documentary regarding this event:

Edited February 3, 2014 by M30USA

[Robert Z]

Dude, you are talking out of your @ss. Audio recording or it didn't happen.

 

 

 

You are so funny.

[Robert Z]

An interesting case of the other type of communication (non-audible) involved 60 school children in Zimbabwe. It was researched by Dr Mack of Harvard. They all were at recess and came running into the schoolhouse screaming in terror. All the kids were questioned and individually they recounted the same story. A circular craft appeared in the woods near playground, some tall and thin beings came out, looked at them, then left. Dr Mack asked if they said anything. The kids said no but most of them FELT like they were telling them that some kind of cataclysm was coming and also that our earth is in danger with regard to the environment. When asked how the kids got that information, none of them knew. They just said they FELT like the beings wanted them to know that.

 

Excerpt from a documentary regarding this event:

 

 

 

That case is very impressive. I saw a relatively recent interview with I think three of the kids involved, who are now grown, and they still stand by their story. I am not aware of anyone ever reversing their story on this.

 

 

I would also argue that the perceived message was practical, not spiritual. Anyway, the strong anecdotal evidence for a close encounter is what fascinates me. I will worry about who they [the alleged visitors] are if and when I know THEY actually exist. I can only handle zeroeth-order speculation.

[M30USA]

That case is very impressive. I saw a relatively recent interview with I think three of the kids involved, who are now grown, and they still stand by their story. I am not aware of anyone ever reversing their story on this.

 

 

I would also argue that the perceived message was practical, not spiritual. Anyway, the strong anecdotal evidence for a close encounter is what fascinates me. I will worry about who they [the alleged visitors] are if and when I know THEY actually exist. I can only handle zeroeth-order speculation.

 

Yes, I've seen the follow up video as well. It was amazing to see them all grown up. As you said, if it were a hoax, surely at least one would have spilled the beans.

[Robert Z]

if it were a hoax, surely at least one would have spilled the beans.

 

 

Yes! To me this weighs heavily after so long. I also remember the teachers commenting on the kids' reaction when they first came running in. She said no one couldn't have coordinated something like that if they had tried. Whatever the kids saw, the reaction was genuine. And to hear such detailed accounts that are filled with excitement and wonder is awfully hard to dismiss. Based on what I know about it, I think this is one of the most significant cases on record, if not the most significant. It rises above even cases like the Tehran 1976 case because of the claim of eye-to-eye contact that the children had with the alleged visitors.

 

 

PS I always wanted to track down Travis Walton and take him out to lunch, but I never did.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Robert Z

[Haydn]

I read` Chariot of the gods` and `was god an astronaut in my teens Erich von Däniken, very interesting.

[M30USA]

Yes! To me this weighs heavily after so long. I also remember the teachers commenting on the kids' reaction when they first came running in. She said no one couldn't have coordinated something like that if they had tried. Whatever the kids saw, the reaction was genuine. And to hear such detailed accounts that are filled with excitement and wonder is awfully hard to dismiss. Based on what I know about it, I think this is one of the most significant cases on record, if not the most significant. It rises above even cases like the Tehran 1976 case because of the claim of eye-to-eye contact that the children had with the alleged visitors.

 

Oh, I dunno about it being more important than the 1976 Tehran sighting. I'd say both are top 20 and we'll leave it at that.

 

PS I always wanted to track down Travis Walton and take him out to lunch, but I never did.

 

I've actually cracked up a few times when I think about things from the aliens' perspective who abducted Walton. They see him wake up, freak out, grab a random metal appliance, and start SWINGING. Lol, Walton says the aliens just kind of calmly looked at him, then walked away. It's probably exactly what WE think when we see a guerrilla in a cave just start going ballistic. It's kind of amusing and curious.

[M30USA]

I read` Chariot of the gods` and `was god an astronaut in my teens Erich von Däniken, very interesting.

 

I don't mean any disrespect at all by this comment, but I believe Erich Von Daniken has done more harm than good on this subject. He's one of the reasons why misinformation abounds.

[Haydn]

No not at all. I was a teen. Watching your link now. This interests me a great deal. Thanks. I dont know enough yet.

 

I don't mean any disrespect at all by this comment, but I believe Erich Von Daniken has done more harm than good on this subject. He's one of the reasons why misinformation abounds.

[Robert Z]

Oh, I dunno about it being more important than the 1976 Tehran sighting. I'd say both are top 20 and we'll leave it at that.

 

 

The reason I say that is that it can still be debated by skeptics even if we take the entire report at face value. The technology in Iran could still conceivably have been manmade, though that argument is harder and harder to make as the years go on.

 

I've actually cracked up a few times when I think about things from the aliens' perspective who abducted Walton. They see him wake up, freak out, grab a random metal appliance, and start SWINGING. Lol, Walton says the aliens just kind of calmly looked at him, then walked away. It's probably exactly what WE think when we see a guerrilla in a cave just start going ballistic. It's kind of amusing and curious.

Or like Captain Pike in The Menagerie?

 

 

Something you hear time and time again, even with relatively distant sightings of UFOs, is that observers feel a personal connection to the object; as if it is there for them, as if it knows their thoughts. Did you ever read the book by Ed Walters? That is a really crazy story. I think the part I liked the most is how the little black dot came up and knocked on his window. I just read this stuff to see what people are claiming but that one stuck out as one of the strangest things I've ever heard.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Robert Z

[Haydn]

Loving this show. thanks M30USA. So interesting. Not just the original subject.

[Haydn]

This reminds me of my father. back to back ST on Sundays. Nice memory, thanks Robert.

 

 

 

The reason I say that is that it can still be debated by skeptics even if we take the entire report at face value. The technology in Iran could still conceivably have been manmade, though that argument is harder and harder to make as the years go on.

 

Or like Captain Pike in The Menagerie?

 

 

Something you hear time and time again, even with relatively distant sightings of UFOs, is that observers feel a personal connection to the object; as if it is there for them, as if it knows their thoughts. Did you ever read the book by Ed Walters? That is a really crazy story. I think the part I liked the most is how the little black dot came up and knocked on his window. I just read this stuff to see what people are claiming but that one stuck out as one of the strangest things I've ever heard.

[M30USA]

Something you hear time and time again, even with relatively distant sightings of UFOs, is that observers feel a personal connection to the object; as if it is there for them, as if it knows their thoughts. Did you ever read the book by Ed Walters? That is a really crazy story. I think the part I liked the most is how the little black dot came up and knocked on his window. I just read this stuff to see what people are claiming but that one stuck out as one of the strangest things I've ever heard.

 

This is exactly why UFOs have a huge spiritual aspect. Dr Jacques Vallee said that, if you took away the psychological or spiritual aspect of UFOs, you wouldn't have any UFO phenomenon.

 

What isn't know is what the cause versus effect is. We don't know if these UFOs are objective, tangible object which have an effect on individuals as a result of their presence; or whether they manifest to certain individuals as a result of their pre-existant mindset. There seems to be strong evidence for both. There are cases where masses of people have all seen the same UFO in the sky; yet in other cases even two reliable people (such as doctors) will not both see it--even if they are looking in exact same spot and its directly in front of them up close, one will see it and be amazed while the other will see nothing.

 

Dr Vallee believed that UFOs can manipulate the senses of nearby observers, affecting their mental and visual senses. If this sounds ridiculous, the EXACT thing happened in the Bible. God "opened" the eyes of Elijah's followers so that they could all temporarily see the fiery chariots in the sky which were on their side in battle. God did this because they were afraid and asked to SEE that god was on their side. God basically wasn't happy but he said (paraphrased), "Oh brother, you just don't get it. Here, I will stoop down to your level and allow you see the unseen world."

[Robert Z]

I have also corresponded quite a bit with Maccabee and Friedman. Also, Mansmann [Vandenberg missile launch incident] right before he died.

 

This is exactly why UFOs have a huge spiritual aspect. Dr Jacques Vallee said that, if you took away the psychological or spiritual aspect of UFOs, you wouldn't have any UFO phenomenon.

 

There are cases where masses of people have all seen the same UFO in the sky; yet in other cases even two reliable people (such as doctors) will not both see it--even if they are looking in exact same spot and its directly in front of them up close, one will see it and be amazed while the other will see nothing.

 

Dr Vallee believed that UFOs can manipulate the senses of nearby observers, affecting their mental and visual senses. If this sounds ridiculous, the EXACT thing happened in the Bible. God "opened" the eyes of Elijah's followers so that they could all temporarily see the fiery chariots in the sky which were on their side in battle. God did this because they were afraid and asked to SEE that god was on their side. God basically wasn't happy but he said (paraphrased), "Oh brother, you just don't get it. Here, I will stoop down to your level and allow you see the unseen world."

 

Believed? He isn't dead is he? I think you are far to quick to take a few rare examples of reports that by definition are very low in quality, and extrapolate that to a conclusion used to support a highly fringe and exotic hypothesis. This doesn't lend credibility to your position.

 

 

Have you ever played the Dark Side of the Moon album while watching the Wizard of Oz? There are a large number of coincidental correlations between the music and the movie; so many that Pink Floyd was accused of secretly writing the album for the movie. But the truth is that one thing has nothing to do with the other.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Robert Z