Before you say, "I do"........

[Mustard Bomb]

Without trying to help your spouse? If so, that falls into the catagory of laziness.

 

Of course I would encourage him to get help. But my first priority would be removing my hypothetical children from the situation, period. I would hardly classify protecting children from criminal acts a form of laziness, but perhaps you would.

 

Lighten up.....all of you....jeeez.

 

This is odd. I am attempting to look at your argument seriously and sincerely, but when you have no rebuttal you want it all to just be a joke?

 

I'm sensing from your increasing ad hominems and dismissal of logic that we may even disagree how to have a mature discussion, so I will leave you to your ranting. Good day.

[Moose]

Of course I would encourage him to get help. But my first priority would be removing my hypothetical children from the situation, period. I would hardly classify protecting children from criminal acts a form of laziness, but perhaps you would.

 

That's it? Take the kids and leave, oh....with a note on the table saying, "get some help". That's what I call laziness. I agree with taking the children out of a situation like that, that's a given. But to abandon someone you promised to stick with through thick and thin is dishonorable to say the least.

 

In the extreme case that you gave it all you got, and things STILL don't work out, as unfortunate as they may be, you can at least say that you did EVERYTHING you possibly could.

[moimeme]

Why are you trying to sound so intellegent

 

She's not 'trying to sound intellegent'. She is intellIgent.

[Pocky]

I simply mean that there isn't any sense in you marrying if your core belief is that, It's a simple civic contract that can be suspended at will.

 

Luckily, you don't have to marry us, Moose. My marriage is a simple civic contract that can be suspended at will, however that doesn't mean my marriage should be viewed as inferior to your marriage. Marriage has different meanings for different people.

 

Personally, I don't see anything different between your contract and my contract. Legally speaking, they are both a simple civic contract that can be suspended at will. If you want to combine religion with your contract, then by all means do so, but maybe you should keep your religion out of other people's marriage since we are adults and our perception of marriage doesn't concern you.

[Mustard Bomb]

Thanks Moimeme, right back atcha. And I'm still chuckling about you teaching George Bush how to lambada.

 

 

Moose, in addition to the many other reasons this will not be a productive discussion between us, my understanding of encouragement is not limited to:

 

a note on the table saying, "get some help."

 

Perhaps it is a difference in dialects, or perhaps your insistence in thinking: "all divorced people are lazy and selfish" clouds your ability to imagine situtions in which they are not.

[Moose]

Luckily, you don't have to marry us, Moose. My marriage is a simple civic contract that can be suspended at will, however that doesn't mean my marriage should be viewed as inferior to your marriage. Marriage has different meanings for different people.

 

I don't view your marriage as inferior Pocky, or anyone elses......the fact that people do view marriage differently is the WHOLE problem in my opinion. People just make it what they want it to be. If people viewed marriage all in the same light, I doubt you'll see as many divorces as you do now, simply because there wouldn't be as many weddings.

 

If you want to combine religion with your contract, then by all means do so, but maybe you should keep your religion out of other people's marriage since we are adults and our perception of marriage doesn't concern you.

 

Here we go again with the friggin' religion deal. What I'm talking about has little to do with religion. It has a lot to do with honor. You made a promise.....you should stick to it with all you have....otherwise, don't make any promises.

 

Moose, in addition to the many other reasons this will not be a productive discussion between us, my understanding of encouragement is not limited to:

 

Well that's good.....I'm glad you wouldn't just take the easy way out. But that's not the reason this discussion isn't as productive as you'd like it to be it's because:

 

Perhaps it is a difference in dialects, or perhaps your insistence in thinking: "all divorced people are lazy and selfish" clouds your ability to imagine situtions in which they are not.

 

Not all divorced people are lazy and selfish. Like I said, there are those that do actually give it all they have and it still doesn't work out. Hopefully they've learned something in the process though. You seem to forget pertainant points I make, and then you go in circles. That's why it's not as productive as you might think.

 

Think about these things BEFORE you get married, and go in understanding that there will be hard times and strife. That's all I'm saying.....it's not that hard to understand....you guys just like to try and shoot my ideals down perhaps because you feel guilty and you know I'm right. Whatever the case may be:

 

Get over it.

[Mustard Bomb]

Well, this:

 

Not all divorced people are lazy and selfish. Like I said, there are those that do actually give it all they have and it still doesn't work out. Hopefully they've learned something in the process though.

 

is quite different from your earlier post:

 

I personally don't believe there is any situation, ANY, situation that would make a marriage unworkable. The only reason that could be possible is if one of the persons who made that commitment decides to be lazy, or selfish.....that's it. There isn't a senario that anyone could come up with that wouldn't fit into one of those catagories.

 

 

So, are you back-pedaling, or are you lying?

 

 

As to this:

 

you guys just like to try and shoot my ideals down perhaps because you feel guilty and you know I'm right.

 

No, this is not personal, at least for me. I have responded to your arguments and your style of argumentation. I'm sure you're a nice man; but that's irrelevant to the shoddy point you are attempting to make.

[Moose]

So, are you back-pedaling, or are you lying?

 

Neither, I meant what I said. Noticed I said if ONE of the persons who made the commitment decides to become lazy or selfish.....not ALL, like you said I meant.

[Pocky]

Here we go again with the friggin' religion deal. What I'm talking about has little to do with religion. It has a lot to do with honor. You made a promise.....you should stick to it with all you have....otherwise, don't make any promises.

 

Why do you care? No one made the promise to you. You're not the person that's being divorced.

 

And everything you write has to do with religion. Every opinion you have is based on your religion. Your religion and your God is where you find your answers. You will always respond as a Christian as long as you are one.

[sumdude]

Wow, this thread sure has spun since I was last here!

 

As far as a marriage being a 'civic contract'. Well on one level looking at the paperwork and legality sure you can say that. But don't tell me that's ALL it is. I mean regardless of religion etc.

 

Do you go to your honey with lawyer in tow and say "I would like to propose a merger, here is the contract hitherto to be known as 'marriage' of the afore mentioned parties...herintofore....." yada yada yada? Maybe in the rarest cases. You get married because you love someone and want to commit to them yourself and your future and work together on it.

 

On the other hand there are unsolvable problems and not everyone who's divorced gave up or was lazy. But there are many who didn't realize what they were getting into or why.

 

I'm nervous about getting married. I think I should be, this is the biggest decision anyone will usually make in thier lives. It defines the rest of your life. Divorce is not as easy as terminating some contract because your core emotions, your finances, children, reputation and more are on the line.

[Mustard Bomb]

Originally posted by Moose

Neither, I meant what I said. Noticed I said if ONE of the persons who made the commitment decides to become lazy or selfish.....not ALL, like you said I meant.

 

 

I see. Well, that's fair enough. So, to revise my statement, all people who initiate divorce are selfish or lazy? Or there is always at least one lazy and selfish person in every single divorce?

[Moose]

I see. Well, that's fair enough. So, to revise my statement, all people who initiate divorce are selfish or lazy? Or there is always at least one lazy and selfish person in every single divorce?

 

It doesn't matter how I answer your question.......but, it seems there is always at least one person who is lazy or selfish in every divorce.

[Mustard Bomb]

Actually, it does matter what you say. I corrected my inaccurate statement, as is the norm when one is in error.

 

I see you have at last corrected your generalization with some modality:

 

but, it seems there is always at least one person who is lazy or selfish in every divorce.

 

and for that I thank you. This makes it clear that this is based on your personal viewpoint. I am amazed that you know every person who has been in a divorce, and feel qualified to judge them, though.

 

You're like the divorce Santa Claus.

 

(The above was a joke.)

 

In any event, my limited understanding of your religion suggests that you have a deity who is contractually obligated and specifically trained to be the only judge whether or not someone's intentions are negative or not? If you are that diety, I think my manners have been remiss, since I have not been using your proper title.

[Bronzepen]

I personally don't believe there is any situation, ANY, situation that would make a marriage unworkable. The only reason that could be possible is if one of the persons who made that commitment decides to be lazy, or selfish.....that's it. There isn't a senario that anyone could come up with that wouldn't fit into one of those catagories.

 

I would like too take a crack at this.

 

You say that you don't believe that there is ANY situation that would make a marriage unworkable. Only possible reason is if one person decides to be lazy or selfish.

 

Scanario:

 

A couple is happily married. They have no problems at all.

 

The man goes on business trip to far off place. Plane crashes into the ocean but man survives and is washed ashore on a deserted island. (Think Castaway).

 

Here's the twist on the story. The man managed to get one call out on his cell phone to his wife when he was on the island. All he could get out before his phone went dead was "I'm alive and not hurt."

 

(Yes, I know, some of you are going to say, how did his phone work when it got wet, yadda, yadda, yadda. So pick a scenario where maybe he manages to grab a parachute and lands on the island and his cell is very low on battery or something. )

 

Anyway, Now his wife knows he is alive but has no idea where he is. Search crews are sent out. Days, months and years go by. Nada.

 

Question: Should the wife keep to her vows and like you say "never give up" on the marriage or should she go find someone new and divorce her husband based on in absentia and remarry?

 

If she does divorce her husband -

 

Is this considered an unworkable marriage?

 

Is the wife considered lazy and selfish?

[sumdude]

Yeah, what if aliens took your wife and turned her into a marmoset?

 

Couldn't help it. Someone always has to come with some outlandish scenario .

[Mustard Bomb]

I think Bronzepen's scenario is really good; I wish I would have thought of it. Not knowing where a loved one is completely probable, especially with natural disasters.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by sumdude

Yeah, what if aliens took your wife and turned her into a marmoset?

 

Couldn't help it. Someone always has to come with some outlandish scenario .

 

 

His statement said that there is no situation, meaning it's not possible.

 

Maybe it's outlandish but not impossible. I am showing one possiblity however outlandish it might be.

[sumdude]

Just playing around, a little levity. We could come up with a ton of very rare yet possible scenarios.

[Moose]

I'm not going to sit here and play this game with you Bronzepen.....you know what I mean, you know what the message is, and you know the reasoning why I started this thread.

[Mustard Bomb]

I don't think there is any problem with your initial post. It's the new point that emerged mid-thread that clearly needs some sussing out.

 

I'm pretty curious about this scenario - it seems you would have to agree there is no way either one of those people was selfish or lazy, if one person choose to divorce and marry again.

[Moose]

What is it that you want me to say? You want me to retract my statement? I'm not going to......when I wrote that, I would think it's only natural to assume the conditions were for normal circumstances and not some far fetched senario.

 

But just to humor you, the wife would be in the selfish catagory for divorcing and remarrying just to have someone to spend the remainder of her life with.

 

Let's just say for the sake of arguement that this person who was stranded was my wife and I knew she was alive.....personally, I wouldn't want to remarry. I wouldn't want anyone else to take her place. Being who I am I'd probaly spend every summer flying around in search. But not everyone has that kind of money to do so. The fact is, it's my personal preference because I made a promise, and I intend to follow it through. I know what honor is and I personally choose to stand by what I say.

[sumdude]

I suppose it's not that far fetched if you change a couple bits. A man goes MIA, last you heard he was alive. Years pass..... This is a tragedy that is all too common.

[Mustard Bomb]

You did not state your claim for normal circumstances, you stated it for every circumstance.

 

But just to humor you, the wife would be in the selfish catagory for divorcing and remarrying just to have someone to spend the remainder of her life with.

 

Wow. Well, that's consistent, at least. I'm starting to think it's a bit selfish to want to control <hypothetically, anyway> someone's basic happiness and loneliness to fit an imaginary ideal.

 

I'm still curious where you get the authority to judge, as well?

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by Moose

 

I'm not going to sit here and play this game with you Bronzepen.....you know what I mean, you know what the message is, and you know the reasoning why I started this thread.

 

Uh, actually I don't. Playing games? When you make a statement saying there is no situation like that. Someone is going to call you on it.

 

This time that someone was me.

 

What is it that you want me to say? You want me to retract my statement? I'm not going to......when I wrote that, I would think it's only natural to assume the conditions were for normal circumstances and not some far fetched senario.

 

See above.

 

But just to humor you, the wife would be in the selfish catagory for divorcing and remarrying just to have someone to spend the remainder of her life with.

 

 

Let's just say for the sake of arguement that this person who was stranded was my wife and I knew she was alive.....personally, I wouldn't want to remarry. I wouldn't want anyone else to take her place. Being who I am I'd probaly spend every summer flying around in search. But not everyone has that kind of money to do so. The fact is, it's my personal preference because I made a promise, and I intend to follow it through. I know what honor is and I personally choose to stand by what I say.

 

OK you believe her (fictional wife) to be selfish.

 

Answer the other question.

 

Is the marriage considered unworkable?

[Moose]

Is the marriage considered unworkable?

 

Assuming that these two were having difficulties, right? Of course they wouldn't be able to help each other out with the shape the marriage is in, but the marriage would remain the same and unchanged.

 

Look at this again, particularly the first two words:

 

I personally don't believe there is any situation, ANY, situation that would make a marriage unworkable. The only reason that could be possible is if one of the persons who made that commitment decides to be lazy, or selfish.....that's it. There isn't a senario that anyone could come up with that wouldn't fit into one of those catagories.

 

And I stand by that.....personally. Here we go again with you all calling me judgmental, cramming my religion down your throats, or whatever you can come up with.

 

These thoughts and views are MY personal thoughts and views, I'm allowed to have and to express them just as you are.....I don't give a care if you agree with them or not.