Ex-girlfriend broke up with me twice

[Downtown]

It's disappoint though, to think that the moments of happiness that we did have could be rewritten by her in her head and I could be made to be seen as abusive.

If she is a BPDer, CM, it likely would be impossible to build up a store of appreciation or good will with her. That is, you cannot build up a store of good will on which to draw later when she is in a bad mood. Trying to do so is as pointless as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea -- it will be washed aside by the next tide of emotions flooding through her brain. With BPDers, their reality is whatever intense feelings they are experiencing at the moment. They generally accept those feelings as "facts." Expecting a BPDer to have a lasting sense of appreciation is as foolish as expecting a four year old to appreciate your many sacrifices when you are taking away her toys and insisting she go to bed.

 

My exW, for example, would appreciate my gifts for a few days. If I spent a small fortune on the gift, she would appreciate it for a week or two tops. Then we would be back to "What have you done for me lately?"

Is there any point in me talking to her about BDP and encouraging her to seek therapy?

CM, telling her about your suspicions of her having strong BPD traits almost certainly will not be productive. If your suspicions are correct, she almost certainly will project that frightening news right back onto you -- with the result that she will be absolutely convinced YOU are the one suffering from strong BPD traits. This is why, with high functioning BPDers, the conventional wisdom is to simply gently encourage her to see a professional (ideally, a psychologist or psychiatrist) and let him decide what to tell her. If he decides she is a high functioning BPDer, he likely will not tell her the name of the disorder. There are several reasons for that which I discuss in other threads. One has to do with insurance companies refusing to cover BPD therapy and another has to do with BPDers' being prone to immediately quit therapy on hearing that diagnosis.

[counterman]

I figured as much. When we were intimate and close, she would express that she was very happy with me and say she's never been more comfortable with anyone else. When we argued or she would get angry, she would say she was 'unhappy' in general and seem to forget that we've had all these happy moments. In fact, I would go as far as to say she had a store of unhappy moments in which to bring up when she was angry. It was confusing because I had no idea what was going inside her head.

 

Even though she seemed thankful for my efforts (and I really did try hard), I'm starting to doubt whether she really did. It felt at times as though I was being taken for granted, as though me being there wasn't appreciated.

 

Accepting feelings of the moment as 'facts' is so dangerous though.

 

How did you maintain a relationship or marriage for so long with a BPD? It seems like every day is a struggle.

 

And how can a BPD hope of a successful long-term relationship, with what's happening inside their mind?

 

I would agree with you there. I could say with almost certainty that she would project that news back onto me. She would probably get angry at me for even suggesting it and perceive that what I would be telling her would be so ridiculous that it's an insult. There were times when she would say that certain friends of her should see a professional... and I was thinking in my head "maybe you should too". As she is high-functioning, she would not see that there's anything "wrong" (not saying that there's anything wrong with BPD) with her.

 

I'm not sure how I would have gone about encouraging her to see a professional without pinching a nerve or eliciting a negative response. I'm sure she wouldn't stick it out with therapy either. If I were still in a relationship with her, I would try. However, I'm not sure whether I should at this point. Certainly not at this time, since I'm still healing. Did your exW ungergo treatment?

[charliemorgan]

I would like to say you same advice as Eswyth that you don't allow her to do it a third time. Please stay strong and take care of yourself. If you really get her back in your life you can. Trust yourself.

[counterman]

Thanks Charlie, I'll keep staying strong and definitely look after myself

[salparadise]

Accepting feelings of the moment as 'facts' is so dangerous though.

Try and understand that the feelings of the moment are their absolute reality; what they feel is, to them, indisputable truth. They are wired differently, and inflexibly. That's why we can't heal them, and why therapy has such a limited chance of success.

 

And how can a BPD hope of a successful long-term relationship, with what's happening inside their mind?

They typically have volatile, short-lived relationships, just as you and your BPD did. When they have longer-term relationships it's typically with an appeasing, codependent partner. When the toll on the partner get to the point they can't handle it anymore and start going to therapy, they learn to be assertive and usually leads to the end of the relationship... because the willingness to engage on the BPDs terms is both the glue that has been holding it together and the cause of damage to the partners' sense of self.

 

This is why we keep telling you not to think about how you could've been more appeasing, think about how you should've been more assertive and enforced your personal boundaries. And that includes letting go of the tendency (which you're still talking about) to think that you are responsible for, or somehow occupy a unique position that would enable you to fix her. Go to therapy!

[counterman]

That makes so much sense, that their feelings are indisputable truths to them. She seemed to want to defend her feelings to death, to the point where my feelings or perspective weren't even considered. She sometimes got angry or frustrated at my response to her expression of her feelings. They would be so intense that sometimes I felt as though I was being attacked. It got to the point where it would be scary seeing her like that, like a totally different person. She joked sometimes that it was her being a "bitch" but now I know there is definitely more to it than that.

 

I would admit I had been engaging on her terms, especially later in the relationship. I was more assertive early on, but became more tolerant and appeasing as time went on. In my moments of assertion, she would react with intense anger and arguments would escalate. Rarely, she would apologise. Most of the time she would push me away. Her explanations got more and more confusing -- to the point where she would ask me "do you understand?" Truth is, I never really did completely understand because she was a mess; I had no idea what was going through her mind. Anything we spoke about could have been spoken about rationally and calmly but any 'talk' always played out this way, leading to an intense emotional outburst. Now I have a better understanding.

 

In my break-up with my previous ex-girlfriend, I was this way too - finding reasons how I contributed to the break-up and taking more responsibility. It took me a while to adjust my view point and learn from it as I should. This situation is the same... The break-up is still fresh and I still have this emotional connection. It'll take time and I'll give it that. But I'm starting to come around. Therapy is always an option and it's not going away.

 

I'm not responsible for helping her nor am I in a position to. I still care about her. However, I'm not acting on it and I've been in strict NC. Looking back, there were plenty of times I could've been more assertive and could've enforced my personal boundaries. I remember during times I did, she would get defensive and react with anger.

[Downtown]

How did you maintain a relationship or marriage for so long with a BPD? It seems like every day is a struggle.

It wasn't easy, CM. Keep in mind, however, that BPDers are emotionally unstable. This means that the intensely bad periods alternated with intensely good times. Granted, when I tell about the bad times, most guys are simply amazed that I would ever tolerate such behavior. What they don't realize, however, is that a BPDer typically is wonderful when she is splitting you white. Most folks imagine a BPDer to be like actress Glenn Close in the movie "Fatal Attraction." A more accurate portrayal, however, would be the character of Jenny in the movie "Forrest Gump" -- a woman who was a somewhat sympathetic but self-destructive, dysfunctional woman who wanted a normal life but couldn't achieve it.

Did your exW ungergo treatment?

Yes, CM, I spent a small fortune taking her to weekly therapy sessions for 15 years, all to no avail. She saw 6 different psychologists and 3 MCs. Generally, it is rare for a BPDer to want to seek therapy and, even when they do at the H's insistence, they usually will just play mind games with the therapists. Although I've not seen any hard statistics on success rates, I would guess that perhaps 1 in 100 BPDers have the self awareness and ego strength necessary to seek therapy and stay in it long enough to make a real difference.

[counterman]

That I can relate to. With my ex, I would say I had some of my happiest moments ever. She has said that same thing as well. But the unhappy moments were really intense and in those moments, she forgot all about the good times that we had. I guess I thought it was worth it, sticking through those hard moments because I knew that just around the corner there were happier moments.

 

I guess you can say you've tried your best, 6 psychologists and 3 MCs over 15 years. Are you still in contact with her?

[Downtown]

No, the only direct contact I have is sending her alimony payments, which don't stop until I retire. Although she has made repeated efforts to rekindle our "friendship," and although she still calls every few months, I don't answer the phone. Praise the lord for Caller ID. I do maintain contact, however, with one of her adult children who lives in another State.

[counterman]

That sounds like a tough situation. What goes through the mind of BDPer when they try to rekindle any form of relationship? It's bound to end up the same way as before.

 

My ex said she wanted me to still be there for her whenever she needed me, after she broke up with me. It was the most ridiculous thing I've heard. And during my time of NC, she did try to reach out and even tried to make me feel guilty for not being there for her. When I think back, was she just using me as an emotional sponge? There was so many intense emotional moments where she would share intimate details, whether it be her about her childhood, her father, her mother, her ex-boyfriends, etc.

 

The one person she didn't go into too much detail about was that guy who she had kept in contact through all these years, until I confronted her about it. She was adamant that she wanted to keep this private and shared only the surface details of their relationship. I lost a lot of trust for her then. I'm sure she's in contact with him now. Now that I think about it, there was a bit of manipulation going on there. She played down the significance of her relationship with this guy and her part in leading him on. Now that I think about it, this relationship had no chance.

[Downtown]

What goes through the mind of BDPer when they try to rekindle any form of relationship? It's bound to end up the same way as before.

Absent years of therapy, CM, a BPDer remains in a lose-lose situation. By choosing to live alone, she loses because she lacks any sense of who she is. Having no stable sense of self identity, she feels a strong need to be with someone who can ground her and center her, keeping her from shooting off in all directions. By choosing to live with someone, however, she also loses because her partner will soon start triggering her fears of abandonment and engulfment.

 

One result is that untreated BPDers tend to be unhappy people no matter what they do. Another result is that, if you are foolish enough to try to help her, you will place yourself in a similar lose-lose situation. You will lose when you draw close to love her because she will feel engulfed, controlled, and suffocated. And you will lose as you back off to give her space -- because you will trigger her great fear of abandonment.

[counterman]

Absent years of therapy, CM, a BPDer remains in a lose-lose situation. By choosing to live alone, she loses because she lacks any sense of who she is. Having no stable sense of self identity, she feels a strong need to be with someone who can ground her and center her, keeping her from shooting off in all directions. By choosing to live with someone, however, she also loses because her partner will soon start triggering her fears of abandonment and engulfment.

 

One result is that untreated BPDers tend to be unhappy people no matter what they do. Another result is that, if you are foolish enough to try to help her, you will place yourself in a similar lose-lose situation. You will lose when you draw close to love her because she will feel engulfed, controlled, and suffocated. And you will lose as you back off to give her space -- because you will trigger her great fear of abandonment.

 

She always said that I just won't get her or get "it". Every time she got angry or upset, I would react emotionally as well -- more often than not, I was confused about her intense emotions and also because I cared. She has said that she wanted me to be her rock. But it was hard, you know? All her insecurities, her fears were being projected onto me. She made me the problem.

 

There were times when I would keep her grounded and centred; and I thought I was having a positive influence on her towards the end of our second stint. Apparently not. I doubt anyone would be able to keep a BDP grounded and centred for a long time.

 

I've noticed that days prior to both our break-ups, I had directly or indirectly stated I needed space to just calm down and clear my head, so that when I do talk to her, it's in a calm manner. I think this may have triggered her fear of abandonment. About a week before our last break-up, she said that whenever she got too close or too committed to someone, she would find any little reason to break-up with them. I didn't pay much attention to it then but I guess it was true.

 

It's a lose-lose. I always felt I could never find a balance with my ex. She either felt a fear of being abandoned when I gave her space or a fear of engulfment when I spent more time with her. The yo-yo effect was driving me crazy. I feel for her because she will probably never find the happiness that she is looking for.

[counterman]

Upon reflection of events through out our relationship and feeling very down at time, I broke NC. I texted her a last goodbye, and now I'm in a very emotional state. Just crying. Just crying.

 

I start over again. Healing.

Edited February 10, 2014 by counterman

[Downtown]

I'm in a very emotional state. Just crying. Just crying. I start over again. Healing.

No, no, no! You are NOT starting over. What you are experiencing IS the healing process. It does not proceed linearly with you feeling a little bit better each day. Rather, even while you're healing, you will occasionally have bad days where you will wake up feeling you're all the way back at square one. Over time, those bad days will get farther and farther apart. Based on what I've seen in your posts, you are on track and making good progress, CM. I'm sorry to hear you're having such a painful time today.

 

As to your texting another "last goodbye" -- like the one you sent her on the evening of 1/28 -- don't beat yourself up over that weak moment. If she has strong BPD traits, it really does not matter much WHAT impression you leave her with. As soon as her mood changes toward you, that impression will be quickly replaced with an entirely different one. With unstable people, there is no such thing as a lasting impression.

[Haydn]

Yes this is quite quite true. Downtown is one of the few here who fully understood my issues without making me feel like an idiot and blaming myself for everything. And more importantly, helped me to understand the issues. I owe a lot to Downtown for helping me to see a different way.

 

No, no, no! You are NOT starting over. What you are experiencing IS the healing process. It does not proceed linearly with you feeling a little bit better each day. Rather, even while you're healing, you will occasionally have bad days where you will wake up feeling you're all the way back at square one. Over time, those bad days will get farther and farther apart. Based on what I've seen in your posts, you are on track and making good progress, CM. I'm sorry to hear you're having such a painful time today.

 

As to your texting another "last goodbye" -- like the one you sent her on the evening of 1/28 -- don't beat yourself up over that weak moment. If she has strong BPD traits, it really does not matter much WHAT impression you leave her with. As soon as her mood changes toward you, that impression will be quickly replaced with an entirely different one. With unstable people, there is no such thing as a lasting impression.

[counterman]

No, no, no! You are NOT starting over. What you are experiencing IS the healing process. It does not proceed linearly with you feeling a little bit better each day. Rather, even while you're healing, you will occasionally have bad days where you will wake up feeling you're all the way back at square one. Over time, those bad days will get farther and farther apart. Based on what I've seen in your posts, you are on track and making good progress, CM. I'm sorry to hear you're having such a painful time today.

 

As to your texting another "last goodbye" -- like the one you sent her on the evening of 1/28 -- don't beat yourself up over that weak moment. If she has strong BPD traits, it really does not matter much WHAT impression you leave her with. As soon as her mood changes toward you, that impression will be quickly replaced with an entirely different one. With unstable people, there is no such thing as a lasting impression.

 

You're are right. I have to be kinder to myself. To be honest, I really need to cry and let it all out. It had been a little while since I had done that. It feels good to grieve. That was one of my bad days, after I've had a string of good ones. Thanks Downtown, thanks for the support, it means a lot. I am feeling some pain at the moment but I'll push through it.

 

The text I sent her was just one-word... it was during a vulnerable moment, where I knew I had to let go and it hurt me to think about letting go. I acted on impulse and sent her that text. She replied straight away with "Don't leave me... I love you" and went on further to say "I haven't always been good with expressing my feelings, especially when it comes to love and marriage... but not having you in my life feels so wrong. Not being with you and not having you here in my life is hurting me everyday. It feels like I'm missing someone and it's not right. The thought of me never being in your life again scares me". Upon reading what you said, I think that impression will change too.

 

Lord give me strength

 

Yes this is quite quite true. Downtown is one of the few here who fully understood my issues without making me feel like an idiot and blaming myself for everything. And more importantly, helped me to understand the issues. I owe a lot to Downtown for helping me to see a different way.

 

Thanks for sharing Haydn. He's helping me out a lot too

[counterman]

Having one of my bad days again. Just thinking about what she had said in the past and how I was taken for granted throughout the relationship. How I tolerated terrible treatment on occasion and just took her justification for it. It's so painful to think that trying the best that I could wasn't enough but her scraps of effort was tremendous in her eyes. I feel deflated and upset that the happy memories that we did have were all overshadowed by our arguments; that she called our whole relationship 'unhappy' and said that's how she felt. It was so unfair. I deserve much better than that.

[Downtown]

Having one of my bad days again.

CM, thanks for giving us an update. My advice, on these bad days when you're sorely missing the good times, is to hold onto your righteous anger. Granted, doing so over the long term of many years would be self destructive. In the short term, however, allowing yourself to be in touch with that anger reduces the pain and energizes you to take action. This is why anger is one of the primitive defense mechanisms we all have from early childhood and is essential to our survival. Righteous anger is often greatly undervalued by folks who find themselves stuck in a pity party of sadness and pain.

Just thinking about what she had said in the past and how... I tolerated terrible treatment on occasion....It was so unfair. I deserve much better than that.

Yes, you do. When BPDers are being abusive like that, CM, they don't feel they are evil malicious people doing wrong. Rather, they feel strongly justified in doing so. Likewise, when people are stealing something from you, they usually feel entitled to what you possess. Indeed, they may feel entitlement so strongly that they feel they are taking back what is owed to them -- or what should have been given to them at the outset if life were fair.

 

In that regard, Dr. James Masterson argues (Narcissistic and Borderline Disorders, 1981) that BPDers have such a great core injury in childhood that they become stuck with the "talionic impulse," i.e., the desire to exact old-style revenge by obtaining compensation in kind: an eye for an eye. That goal is so important, he contends, that BPDers want to get revenge, not to get better. They must make a choice between those two things, he says, because getting better means the BPDer must master his talionic impulse and use the aggressive energy, instead, to support his own growth.

 

Similarly, A.J. Mahari (Punishment and Revenge in BPD, 2009) says that most BPDers will lash out in talionic, punishing ways to make others pay for what the BPDers perceive as a terrible injustice done against them. To a BPDer, not getting want she wants is perceived as the other person trying to punish her -- and so she responds in kind by punishing that person. Indeed she often may punish others simply in anticipation of such punishment because she feels so strongly that it will occur. Mahari believes that those BPDers wanting to get better need to make a choice, over and over, to let the past go -- each and every time it presents itself. That is, they must choose day-by-day and hour-by-hour to stop thinking of themselves as victims who must punish others.

[counterman]

CM, thanks for giving us an update. My advice, on these bad days when you're sorely missing the good times, is to hold onto your righteous anger. Granted, doing so over the long term of many years would be self destructive. In the short term, however, allowing yourself to be in touch with that anger reduces the pain and energizes you to take action. This is why anger is one of the primitive defense mechanisms we all have from early childhood and is essential to our survival. Righteous anger is often greatly undervalued by folks who find themselves stuck in a pity party of sadness and pain.

 

Thanks, that has really helped. I was upset and needed to grieve, but I was also angry. I'm still angry. Righteous anger is good, in the short-term, as I have realised in my first break-up. I'm angry about about a lot of things, mostly about the way I was treated, how I was taken for granted. So, i"m just going to vent here.

 

She didn't break-up with my in person. It was a given that the respectful thing to do was to break-up with me in person. Out of everything that we've been through, I deserved that at the very least. She said that it was hard for her. Hard for her? I was the one getting dumped.

 

I'm angry at how she would talk about her exes. You were in a relationship with me. They are irrelevant. Why bring them up? What's the purpose?

 

I hated how she would use triangulation with me and her best friend, intentionally or unintentionally. I had spoken to her about how it made me feel. It's not a case of him vs me. I was her boyfriend, he was meant to be just a friend. It was embarrassing at times.

 

Every time there was an issue, it would be reflected onto me. Every time there was an argument, I would be pushed away and rarely pulled back in. Ever think it was you that contributes to the intensity of these arguments? I tried to stay calm and work through issues. I am on your side. I'm not against you.

 

She said so many things that made me believe she saw a future with me. I was so convinced. And it was so disappointing to see all that was said and done summed up in one word, and that was 'unhappy', all because she was unhappy at that moment.

 

I didn't like how she held back information or lied at times... if you want me to trust you, then work with me, talk to me, don't go, if you don't trust me, then you can **** off. How would you feel if the situations were reversed and I had these female 'friends' who were trying to get with me?

 

I'm angry at how she assumed I would hang around and be there for her after we broke up. And that she even tried to get me to see her. C'mon. I will not be placed on the back-burner like a fool. I didn't like how she thought by going NC, I was abandoning her. I am not a fool. I had made it clear with her throughout the relationship that I can never be her friend if we broke up. What was she thinking? That I was joking? I'm angry that my experience with her was devalued and unappreciated.

 

I'm angry that she was rarely truly sorry during the times she's hurt me.

 

Yes, you do. When BPDers are being abusive like that, CM, they don't feel they are evil malicious people doing wrong. Rather, they feel strongly justified in doing so. Likewise, when people are stealing something from you, they usually feel entitled to what you possess. Indeed, they may feel entitlement so strongly that they feel they are taking back what is owed to them -- or what should have been given to them at the outset if life were fair.

 

In that regard, Dr. James Masterson argues (Narcissistic and Borderline Disorders, 1981) that BPDers have such a great core injury in childhood that they become stuck with the "talionic impulse," i.e., the desire to exact old-style revenge by obtaining compensation in kind: an eye for an eye. That goal is so important, he contends, that BPDers want to get revenge, not to get better. They must make a choice between those two things, he says, because getting better means the BPDer must master his talionic impulse and use the aggressive energy, instead, to support his own growth.

 

Similarly, A.J. Mahari (Punishment and Revenge in BPD, 2009) says that most BPDers will lash out in talionic, punishing ways to make others pay for what the BPDers perceive as a terrible injustice done against them. To a BPDer, not getting want she wants is perceived as the other person trying to punish her -- and so she responds in kind by punishing that person. Indeed she often may punish others simply in anticipation of such punishment because she feels so strongly that it will occur. Mahari believes that those BPDers wanting to get better need to make a choice, over and over, to let the past go -- each and every time it presents itself. That is, they must choose day-by-day and hour-by-hour to stop thinking of themselves as victims who must punish others.

 

Thanks so much for sharing that.

 

That is so interesting; it really gives us some sort of understanding of how a BDPer works. I would say I had been punished a few times, in anticipation of perceived punishment from me. I would go as far to say that the break-ups were punishment for some perceived wrong that I did. Would it be harder for BDPer to harness the "talionic impulses" to support his or her growth rather than getting revenge?

 

My ex always played the victim card. Her feelings, as perceived truths, would always dominate. And whenever I shared how I felt, she would say that I'm not understanding her and that my feelings are dominated. When we talk, it would seem like she was attacking me. Even though she's said a few times, she's not really attacking me.

 

How does a BPDer improve his or herself, such as what we are doing with self-improvement? My ex said that she needed time and space to work on things... but I doubted that she was actually getting any work done. One red flag was that she would project all her issues onto her exes...she never accepted responsibility for her part in the failure of the relationships. It was never her fault. I saw straight away a few issues with how she met them for one, and how quickly she progressed with them. How does a BPDer learn from past relationships and really make a positive difference in themselves?

[counterman]

I'm also finding that I miss the intimacy, on an emotional level and physical level.

[Downtown]

Would it be harder for BDPer to harness the "talionic impulses" to support his or her growth rather than getting revenge?

As I understand it, CM, those impulses should be suppressed -- and, "yes," doing so would be harder for BPDers because they lack impulse control. But these talionic impulses do not represent a source of energy that could be "harnessed" but, rather, a childish refusal to accept responsibility for one's own actions. I would agree, however, that the anger behind the decision to seek revenge could be re-channeled productively or "harnessed," as you say.

When we talk, it would seem like she was attacking me. Even though she's said a few times, she's not really attacking me.

Trust your own judgment. If it seemed like she was attacking you, she likely was.

How does a BPDer improve his or herself, such as what we are doing with self-improvement? How does a BPDer learn from past relationships and really make a positive difference in themselves?

Generally, they don't. Granted, BPDers are intelligent, creative people who improve themselves in numerous ways, with that result that many excel in very demanding professions (e.g., becoming surgeons, psychologists, professors, and scientists). With respect to close interpersonal relationships, however, it is rare for them to substantially improve. To do so, they would have to let go of their false self image of being "The Victim" and start taking responsibility for their own actions. That requires having the self awareness to see what harm they are doing and the ego strength to be willing to remain in therapy long enough to do something about it. Sadly, nearly all BPDers choose getting even over getting well. And what are they getting even for? Usually it is for an infraction they imagined or projected onto you, i.e., something you didn't even do.

She would project all her issues onto her exes...she never accepted responsibility for her part in the failure of the relationships. It was never her fault.

Yes, that's the way it works. A BPDer avoids painful feelings of shame by subconsciously projecting a bad thought or feeling onto you -- and then proceeds to punish you because, at a conscious level, she really does believe you are the one creating the bad feeling or thinking the bad thought.

[counterman]

As I understand it, CM, those impulses should be suppressed -- and, "yes," doing so would be harder for BPDers because they lack impulse control. But these talionic impulses do not represent a source of energy that could be "harnessed" but, rather, a childish refusal to accept responsibility for one's own actions. I would agree, however, that the anger behind the decision to seek revenge could be re-channeled productively or "harnessed," as you say.

 

She was rather impulsive, especially in terms of how she channelled her anger. She mostly punished me for how she was feeling, whether it be for a small issue, large issue or even a non-issue. There were times I had unintentionally caused her to be upset, for which I apologised, yet I was continued to be punished, sometimes passively aggressively, like withholding physical contact and pushing me away when I would come close or aggressively verbally. She rarely did accept responsibility for her actions; and when she did, there was always a catch to it, for example " I'm sorry I did this... because when you did this to me last time, it made me upset and angry".

 

Sometimes she was even confused about why she was so angry at me. She had to think of reasons to be angry. It was bizarre to watch. She would sit there for a moment and come up with some reason to be angry at me for. If only she could just let it go or re-channel this anger.

 

Trust your own judgment. If it seemed like she was attacking you, she likely was.

 

That's certainly what it felt like. How was I meant to take it? Be apathetic about it? It hurt to be attacked like that, and it'll come out randomly as well, as though it has been building up. For a week we would be having fun, suddenly her mood would change one night and then BAM, right in my face.

 

Generally, they don't. Granted, BPDers are intelligent, creative people who improve themselves in numerous ways, with that result that many excel in very demanding professions (e.g., becoming surgeons, psychologists, professors, and scientists). With respect to close interpersonal relationships, however, it is rare for them to substantially improve. To do so, they would have to let go of their false self image of being "The Victim" and start taking responsibility for their own actions. That requires having the self awareness to see what harm they are doing and the ego strength to be willing to remain in therapy long enough to do something about it. Sadly, nearly all BPDers choose getting even over getting well. And what are they getting even for? Usually it is for an infraction they imagined or projected onto you, i.e., something you didn't even do.

 

What are the roles of those around BPDers? With the view of himself or herself as a victim, would the opinions of those closest to the BPDers help him or her accept responsibility for their actions? I know that with my ex she had many enablers around her, who would justify that she was the victim. I had met her friends and instead of being honest with her, they would just agree with how she's feeling. Personally, I prefer my friends to tell me the truth. However, her friends play the role of enablers; she feels increasingly justified that she is the victim, even though, for example, I really had done no wrong.

 

Where does that self-awareness come from? Is it another personality trait? I can only go off what I've experience; my ex, she wasn't very perceptive of her own actions and their consequences. Professionally, academically, with friends and family she seemed to interact OK - but with me, she projected a lot of her issues onto me. It's funny because she would say that certain friends of hers need professional help; listening to her with her childhood issues, and her fixation on ex-boyfriends being perpetrators, I knew she had deep-seeded issues that need professional help.

 

Choosing to get even gains them what though? She had said a few times that when she feels she is backed into a corner, she attacks. Any slight cause of stress to her causing her to attack. Why choose to get even when you can choose to get along?

 

Yes, that's the way it works. A BPDer avoids painful feelings of shame by subconsciously projecting a bad thought or feeling onto you -- and then proceeds to punish you because, at a conscious level, she really does believe you are the one creating the bad feeling or thinking the bad thought.

 

It's very sick though. Only on 1 or 2 occasions she had moments of clarity and took some responsibility for what we were going through. She had blamed me for bringing down her mood several times and had given me attitude in return. Are you serious?

 

When we spoke about her exes, I had asked her what she had learned from the experience. She gave me some wishy-washy answer, which basically blamed her exes for everything. Here's one for you, don't meet them at clubs or bars. Here's another, don't date a guy who sleeps around with a lot of women and openly states that to you. Here's a third, accept responsibility for your part in an argument and learn to resolve issues, instead of just releasing hot gas. I guess she didn't realise any of these because she saw herself as 'the victim'. All woe befalls her.

 

She broke-up with me, but it is twisted into "he is abandoning me".

[Downtown]

What are the roles of those around BPDers?

For her partner, only two roles are permitted: savior and perpetrator, both of which "validate" her false self image of being "The Victim."

With the view of himself or herself as a victim, would the opinions of those closest to the BPDers help him or her accept responsibility for their actions?

Perhaps, if her BPD traits are at a low to moderate level. If they are strong, however, she almost certainly is incapable of trusting your opinion -- or that of any therapist. Sadly, the closer you get to her, the less she is able to trust you, because you pose a much greater threat to her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) as you draw closer. You feel like you're standing on a boat dock watching your loved one drowning just five feet away. You reach out to her and yell, "Over here, grab my hand!" But she can't. It's not that she can't see your hand or hear your voice. Rather, it's that she cannot trust you to make good on your promise.

I know that with my ex she had many enablers around her, who would justify that she was the victim.

If she is a BPDer, that's exactly what you should be seeing -- a group of enablers. A BPDer pushes everyone else away.

Where does that self-awareness come from?

I have no idea. I've never seen any figures but I would guess that perhaps 3% of high functioning BPDers have sufficient self awareness to realize that their perceptions of other people often are distorted by their own intense feelings which they're unable to regulate properly.

Choosing to get even gains them what though?

Control. Gaining control is paramount to BPDers because they have felt, throughout their lives, that they have little control over how they are treated by other people. To a lesser extent, it also brings them a feeling of fairness and justice, as in "an eye for an eye" (talionic) type of justice. What they really want, however, is some measure of control over a life that seems so out of control to them.

She broke-up with me, but it is twisted into "he is abandoning me".

Likewise, my BPDer exW tells everyone that I left her and divorced her. Never mind that she had me hauled away in handcuffs on a bogus charge. Never mind that she then obtained a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months. And never mind that, when the judge granted the divorce, she did so based on my exW's petition for divorce. In her mind, I was the one to leave her.