How do you know when its time

[msoptimistic]

Hello, I have been here on LS for a while but on a different discussion topic...wanted to come here for a different type question..previously I have posted on OM/OW discussions which is a pretty good hint about the state of my marriage...I'm wondering if anyone has ever been in my same predicament...my H and I grew up very differently and recently some of those differences have come to affect our relationship...before my A I had become resentful of some of his behaviors and the fact that everything in his world is black or white...no room for any grays! My MM is totally opposite of H in every way I can think of although I'm not going to necessarily say that it is all positive differences. My H is a very highly respected member of our community...to the point that I am often told by strangers how "lucky" I am to be married to him. That's when I sometimes want to ask if they want to try it for awhile to see what its really like! The problem is my A has shown me a totally different way of life and I've liked it. It's definitely more free spirited and probably dangerous than my life now and I'm afraid I'll make a decision I truly regret. I don't expect MM to leave his life for me, my question is do I want to stay where I am or find someone who is available that has characteristics more like what I want in my life now? My biggest fear is that I'll get the courage to leave and look back on the safe life I have now and regret it....but then I also wonder if I'll regret not taking a chance to see what else is out there? BTW, I am 46 years old, my children are pretty much grown and finances would be tight but not impossible...so, I guess I'm asking, what are some questions one should ask themselves when trying to decide if a marriage is worth working on or if its time to see what else life has to offer?

[kalika]

That's a great question but a hard one, I would imagine.

 

I guess the tipping point is when you KNOW there will likely be negatives associated with leaving the marriage, but you would still rather jump ship and deal with those negatives than be in your current marriage. When you get to that point, it's probably just time to leave once and for all.

[Yasuandio]

Well, I've noticed many people, simply do some cake-eating, as you have already done, to find out. Now your cake-eating, interestly enough, was with a slice that was unavailable (perhaps you were subconsciously "playing it safe?).

 

Now, from what I have observed and read about, once women make a decision that they are fed up, they might show the nerve to take the cake and eat it too, and couldn't care less, as their confident about all the many other delicious and interesting cakes that are out in the world:

 

Devil's Food Cake (Bad Boys)

Pound Cakes (I think they are rich English or British guys like Gordon Ramsey)

Red Velvet Cake (Perhaps someone in the medical field, like a doctor!)

Coffee Cake (the guy who likes to take you out to Starbucks often)

Spice Cake (an exotic man from another country - I like those)

Fruitcake (Give the guy a chance. Artistic, less macho, crazy fun)

Pineapple Up-Side-Down Cake (this guy has it all, sweet! Rocks your World!)

Cup Cake (Remember - small packages have big surprises!)

Carrot Cake (fair-skinned red head's)

Black Forest Cake (Primo Bro)

Wedding Cake (mmmmmmmm)

 

You got to take the good with the bad, once in awhile the girl meets up with one of these:

 

Rum Cake (watch out for guys that drink to much)

Sponge Cake (watch out for panhandlers and cheapskates)

Bundt Cake (the occasional a$$ hole)

 

In the meantime, the unfrosted one-layer cake at home is begging them for a second chance. Because "NOW" they see the light. They one layer finally comprehends what has been pointed out for a decade. They get it, and for most likely, it's too late in most cases to build new layers, and frost himself. It is a sad story we see on LS. The one layer guy is willing to do anything! He's ready to go all out -- even get candles, make himself into a missed birthday cake, a missed anniversary cake, a promise to change cake with sprinkles on top - but, for not. too little too late.

 

Here is my point Hon. It is all up to you. Do YOU want to save your mariage? If so, You got to get real with your husband before you start craving cake, big time.

 

Some people will tell you to be honest about your affair. I think you should keep it to yourself, unless there is some way he could find out. You will never hear the end of it - and he will reject you, and you'll be the one pinning for him simply because you are ON THE FENCE. What will happen is the tables will turn on you.

 

Now, I recommend you read Love is Tough by Dobson. It will bring it home to you of how wrong what you did was. YOU were in the wrong in two ways. The affair itself and the fact it was with a MM (you were knowingly a participant in assisting him in breaking his vows when you engaged in the sexual conduct with him). But you didn't get caught - so keep your mouth shut, that's what I say, but know in your heart that it was wrong. [the reason I'm telling you this is that I felt justified myself to have an affair - because I was neglected and denigned intimacy for years - but after read Dobson, I got a different perspective].

 

If you decide you don't want to be married to this man, and would prefer to live in the world of cake, with or without meeting someone, then, it up to you. I hope some of these ideas help you sort this out. It is not so easy to date, but it is a riot to get dressed up and flirt, even if it is just at the grocery store. It is great to be free of a person that was negative to me, this much I can say. Yas

[trippi1432]

Been divorced for four years here Hun....send me your stbx's info...I bet I could turn him from a one layer cake to a Pine Apple Upside Down in about five minutes. Sometimes it's good to stay in your own kitchen and just make cake.

 

I do like the cake analogy...should be in the critical readings.

[msoptimistic]

Kalika - I have thought about the negatives and there are plenty to think about...one major disadvantage of living in a small town and an even smaller tight knit community!

 

trippi - I agree that one should stay in their own kitchen but the problem comes when the other person in the equation doesn't want to try any new recipes! You said you had been divorced...do you have regrets?

 

yasuandio - Wow, what a great analogy...gonna have to print that out and digest it! Don't think I ever thought of an MM as being safe...wasn't looking for an A, it literally just happened...love at first sight (and I do mean literally as I couldn't even speak to him without being tongue tangled!)...

 

What amazes me is how I can swing from one side to the other at any given moment...one minute I'm thinking I've tried and tried and its still not working so just move on to something else...the fallout from a divorce eventually dies down and people move on, but then I think you've got years invested and there's no way I'm putting everyone through a divorce because of my selfishness...crazy what emotions do to you!

[trippi1432]

Kalika - I have thought about the negatives and there are plenty to think about...one major disadvantage of living in a small town and an even smaller tight knit community!

 

trippi - I agree that one should stay in their own kitchen but the problem comes when the other person in the equation doesn't want to try any new recipes! You said you had been divorced...do you have regrets?

 

yasuandio - Wow, what a great analogy...gonna have to print that out and digest it! Don't think I ever thought of an MM as being safe...wasn't looking for an A, it literally just happened...love at first sight (and I do mean literally as I couldn't even speak to him without being tongue tangled!)...

 

What amazes me is how I can swing from one side to the other at any given moment...one minute I'm thinking I've tried and tried and its still not working so just move on to something else...the fallout from a divorce eventually dies down and people move on, but then I think you've got years invested and there's no way I'm putting everyone through a divorce because of my selfishness...crazy what emotions do to you!

 

Hun, the MM you are referring to in your other threads is 53, married to a 25 year old and you are just shy of 7 years younger than the MM and the affair partner if I read all of that correctly. I get all of what you have stated as well, she doesn't understand him, they aren't compatible, nothing in common......yada yada yada.....every line a man looking to have an affair uses. He has no intentions if leaving her for you....and you are right, she has dug in good and would be a fool to leave her comfort zone. And if you think they aren't having some hot and heavy sex....you would truly be putting your head in the sand.

 

Yes, I am divorced....twice actually. I married very young and I got tired of him sleeping with everyone but me. I had sexual needs that needed to be met too.....but I didn't cheat, I just didn't take him back after he knocked up his AP. Second marriage, 15 years, my biggest regret is that I didn't cheat before he did, but his affair sealed the deal on the divorce because I had not been happy for a while....and I deserved to be treated better than he treated me. Today, they are married and have the same exact issues we had....oh, but we had great sex, there was nothing wrong in that department until I found out about the affair. Believe me, men who cheat on their wives are typically having sex with their wives up to the day they get caught or leave.

 

What new recipes do you want your husband to learn.....why don't we start there.

[msoptimistic]

Trippi,

Thanks for taking your time to respond...I understand where you're coming from about the misrepresentation about sex with his wife. I guess when you're in the heat of the moment you just can't help but think he's not lying and not having sex with her. My A moved so slowly, well at least to me it was slowly, and it seems like his M has evolved over the months. When we first started out, he made no bones that they had an active sex life. Then through the months he's told how that had deteriorated and only recently started with "the only time I have sex now is with you" comments...

It's very hard to take that step back and look at things from a realistic point of view when you want the romantic point of view!

I'd like to say one other thing...my H and I have been married for 11 years and when we first married I was a very different person. I know that sounds like a cop out, but it is very true. Since we got married, I have finished my master's degree, started a new career, got my kids raised, lost 75 pounds, and found a whole new me that I like quite a bit...my H tells me regularly that he wants the old me back and he makes no bones about it. I have been talking to a Counselor because I want to do this right...he says that men need women to need them while women want men to want them and that my H no longer feels needed. He is very angry that we are so different now but I'm not sure what else I could have done differently...he on the other hand, really hasn't changed at all, in fact, the one new hobby he has taken up involves animals that I have absolutely no interest in whatsoever which also upsets him. But believe me, I have tried...I've fed and watered and checked on them for him when he was busy but they are a priority for him and not even interesting to me....so what recipe would I want to try? Finding middle ground maybe...something we both enjoy although we have been saying this for a LONG time and haven't found anything yet....or maybe just peace because right now I feel as if every statement he makes has a negative undercurrent directed at me...yes, we've discussed all this, no, nothing has changed. The MM actually in a way represents another way of life for me...it doesn't have to be him, but he has a very different lifestyle...we both like the beach, H hates it; we both like to save some but enjoy life too, H is all about saving every penny; we both like to take a chance and stop somewhere different to eat, H has 3-4 restaurants he always wants to go to; just so many differences that at this point, I'm not sure I would want the MM with his baggage but just that something different might be waiting out there...grass is greener syndrome I guess...any of this making sense to anyone???

[Yasuandio]

GIGS

 

There are some good readings on GIGS on page 2 of the "Critical readings for Separation and Divorce" link in my signature line. Sometimes the grass on the other side is really green cause they used a ton of manure over there, so you got to be careful not to step on any cow "patty cakes." Y

[TiredFamilyGuy]

OP - you are being deceitful. Don't steal your husbands choice to make decisions based on the truth. You sound like a bunch of cliches stuck together with lies. Come clean and tell the poor ignorant schmuck what's going on.

[Yasuandio]

OP - you are being deceitful. Don't steal your husbands choice to make decisions based on the truth. You sound like a bunch of cliches stuck together with lies. Come clean and tell the poor ignorant schmuck what's going on.

 

Why should OP take a risk on cuting her throat before she decides what she wants? Huh? That's NOT Standard Operating Procedure for WAW Syndrome! When the wife walks away, she has no doubt in her mind, and is fed up trying to get the man to hear her voice. She has done all preparations and arrangement in advance, and knows exactly what is going to happen; and where she is going to work and live. If OP spills the beans before she knows what she wants she could end up getting kicked to the curb. Now, does that sound smart thing to do, TiredFamilyGuy? This OP has still some reservations. It there is any chance OP's husband will pick-up some Q-tips and clean the wax out his ears, it is her call if she wants to repeat herself like a parrot once again. (If there is the slimest chance OP can get through the earwax, he doesn't need any graphic images forever in his mind to make matter worse). That's how the system works, man. Yas

Edited January 31, 2014 by Yasuandio

[trippi1432]

Trippi,

Thanks for taking your time to respond...I understand where you're coming from about the misrepresentation about sex with his wife. I guess when you're in the heat of the moment you just can't help but think he's not lying and not having sex with her. My A moved so slowly, well at least to me it was slowly, and it seems like his M has evolved over the months. When we first started out, he made no bones that they had an active sex life. Then through the months he's told how that had deteriorated and only recently started with "the only time I have sex now is with you" comments...

It's very hard to take that step back and look at things from a realistic point of view when you want the romantic point of view!

 

OPT <--- (that's going to be your nickname on here, we do that around here at times...and MsO is already taken here, personally, I like her..she's a sensible gal...so OPT it is)....I think it's a good nickname though because you have options...not optimism...but options. There is nothing really with this MM to be optimistic about other than the fact that you can have a totally fun-filled, non-committal sexual relationship with a man who is going to go back home to his wife....his 25 year old wife at that. The fact that the relationship has been slow to evolve just leaves me wondering who was the more culpable at starting the affair and pushing for it.

 

I'd like to say one other thing...my H and I have been married for 11 years and when we first married I was a very different person. I know that sounds like a cop out, but it is very true. Since we got married, I have finished my master's degree, started a new career, got my kids raised, lost 75 pounds, and found a whole new me that I like quite a bit...

 

There is a lot of information here and I'm sure the counselor sees it as well....it may take a bit for you to see it. There is nothing wrong with what you state here...you grew as a person, you matured....you found yourself. Now I will tell you something you might not want to hear, you outgrew him......and that is NOT his fault!! You can blame him all you want (which we can get into below), but that was on you once you felt he no longer pleased you or fit in the model of what you feel life should now be for YOU as you continue to grow. What hasn't grown is the relationship and I am sure a well educated woman such as yourself knows that, but you did act on hormonal impulses when you crossed the line.

 

I will say something else, EVERY ONE has the ability to cheat on their marriage. A perfectly good person can become someone who validates their way into leaving common sense behind and can justify their reasons for cheating.....and they do that via something called an affair fog. I'd say that is about where you are currently.

 

my H tells me regularly that he wants the old me back and he makes no bones about it. I have been talking to a Counselor because I want to do this right...he says that men need women to need them while women want men to want them and that my H no longer feels needed.

 

I've heard this as well, and as someone similar to you OPT, I am a woman who holds 3 degrees, has a very well-paying job and grew financially ....the one thing I always lacked was the emotional support that a man should give a woman. One thing I did find in getting to know me, was that my husband was not my father....two totally different agendas, a father wants his daughter to succeed and be happy....a husband....wants to be needed. My father would tell me he was proud of me when I got a promotion or accomplished something...my exH just wanted to know if he could have more money and if he was getting a BJ. When he had accomplishments, I was proud of him, I supported him as a person, I didn't always support his "hobbies" (with good reason they were alcoholism, gambling and smoking pot). I could have many validations in cheating on him, but I respected ME too much to stoop to that level. Options are easy, what you have with the MM is easy, that's why it's fun...there are no obligations....hello "gray" area.

 

When someone grows, such as you state you have, there is typically a point of peace within....when someone looks to find their own peace within another person...they have not yet mastered a true personal growth. So you have had accomplishments....but none of them satisfy you yet...and this is most likely why you find yourself where you are now, unhappy with what you have and looking over that fence to see if there is something else that will satisfy you. Honestly....you really have no where to look other than in the mirror. With what you have accomplished....be proud of course....but what is reflecting on you now?

 

He is very angry that we are so different now but I'm not sure what else I could have done differently...he on the other hand, really hasn't changed at all, in fact, the one new hobby he has taken up involves animals that I have absolutely no interest in whatsoever which also upsets him. But believe me, I have tried...I've fed and watered and checked on them for him when he was busy but they are a priority for him and not even interesting to me....so what recipe would I want to try? Finding middle ground maybe...something we both enjoy although we have been saying this for a LONG time and haven't found anything yet....or maybe just peace because right now I feel as if every statement he makes has a negative undercurrent directed at me...yes, we've discussed all this, no, nothing has changed. The MM actually in a way represents another way of life for me...it doesn't have to be him, but he has a very different lifestyle...we both like the beach, H hates it; we both like to save some but enjoy life too, H is all about saving every penny; we both like to take a chance and stop somewhere different to eat, H has 3-4 restaurants he always wants to go to; just so many differences that at this point, I'm not sure I would want the MM with his baggage but just that something different might be waiting out there...grass is greener syndrome I guess...any of this making sense to anyone???

 

The above are validations....resentments...justification...and personally, I see a woman who doesn't know what she wants. Until you came to the S&D thread....there really were no posts concerning your 11 year marriage or how your husband would feel if he found out. Someone else brought it up, but perhaps you should read Walkaway Wife Syndrome.

 

As for the recipe....the only ingredients you have given are 1/2 cup of internal unhappiness, 1/4 cup of justification/resentment, 1/3 cup of loneliness and you haven't really started the whisk the egg on the true issues. Fold that into how the cake would turn out if your husband were working on his own recipe for his own happiness then you might find middle ground.

 

Hmm, he likes animals, you don't. You like recreational activities with a MM....I'm sure he would not like your hobbies either. That might be a start into beginning to resolve some issues. And from a woman who has been in the world divorced for four years....there's a lot of "something differents" out there, but you better get your head out of the romance novel because they all gave that to their first wives....today they all just talk a good game...it lasts about six months for the good guys....about an hour or two for the bad boys. If you decide to venture into the real world, you might want to not be so naive. If you do decide to come clean with your husband and move on with your life....do it cleanly so you have a nice fresh lawn.

Edited February 1, 2014 by trippi1432

[Yasuandio]

OPT, I agree with Trippi on everything except coming clean with Hubby. The way I would "come clean" is to come to cleanliness in your heart of hearts. For a couple years - I felt perfectly justified, as I told you, for my fling, as my former husband rejected me intimately for years. I discussed with my pastor and felt forgiveness from God. Afterall, former husband had been cheating on me for years.

 

After I read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson, the book turned me on my head. I had never crossed any line in 23 years of marriage - but I couldn't resist. And I felt what I did for those months was only human. This book made me see. That although I addressed my human needs, I broke my vows to God. Now, don't get the idea I'm a religious fananitic. (I swear at least 2-3 times in every sentence, bad swears!) before reading the Dobson, I felt since my husband was guilty of this cheating, and affection came to me by accident, that I was justified to go through with it because my body ached to be loved again. This is where I was mistaken - and I regret what I did. My actions and choices were separate from those of my husband at the time. I hope you check out this classic read.

 

You can grow and make yourself confident within the marriage. May I suggest the free newsletters available from Mimi Tanner, particularly on the Reverse Ultimatum? She has a lot of publications, and you can sign up for the newsletter on each one separately. I've learned a lot from these for self improvement and confidence building. As well as man-taming. Just more ideas for you. Yas

[lockedoutluv]

...so, I guess I'm asking, what are some questions one should ask themselves when trying to decide if a marriage is worth working on or if its time to see what else life has to offer?

 

There is a book that can help you identify the questions and answer them at the same time... Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum. Strongly recommended.

[M30USA]

That's a great question but a hard one, I would imagine.

 

I guess the tipping point is when you KNOW there will likely be negatives associated with leaving the marriage, but you would still rather jump ship and deal with those negatives than be in your current marriage. When you get to that point, it's probably just time to leave once and for all.

 

This is very true. My two biggest negatives were:

 

1) Not being able to see my kids every day.

 

2) Knowing that, as a man, I'd be the assumed at-fault party for the divorce.

 

In reference to #1, I actually have MORE quality time with my kids in 1/3 the time compared to when I was married. This is because I'm mentally healthier now.

 

In reference to #2, I've learned to not care what people think. Only those who know me would understand.

[RonaldS]

I think the biggest issue with having such divergent upbringings, and subsequently, lifestyles and world views is that often, couples don't do the work required to get to understand each other.

 

It was the same thing with my XW and I. Polar opposite lives and upbringings. Early on, of course, it's interesting and intriguing. The problem comes in when, after a while, you just don't get each other. My XW could never understand why I was the way I was, and I never fully understood why she was the way she was. The net product of that is that son many things that shouldn't even register on the radar turn into conflicts. And then resentment. And after that, if something really bad happens such as an affair or abuse, the mountain of resentment can be too much to overcome.

 

I feel that my XW and I ended up there. You want to fix the major problem, but there are so many more problems underneath it that you eventually just say 'screw it', because it's impossible to imagine ever working through all that crap and then, at the end, you're still two very different people.

[trippi1432]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/459121-over-heartbeat

 

Since this thread sort of "died" but people are posting on it recently....Where this thread went........