Hidden Momentos from his Ex... Keep or...?

[rumbleseat]

You have the right to feel comfortable in your own home, and if the pictures bother you, scan them, send her back the originals and keep the scanned copies.

 

If they don't, then follow your husbands wishes. If he wants them down, take them down.

 

Have you ever considered counseling for the three of you? I know that may sound weird, but I have heard it des help ( my brother, who did M his ow , got some with his ex-w and his new w. It helped everyone to heal, and although his new marriage didn't last, it real helped with the relationship with his first w. It mean they are better able to co-parent, etc. and the kids cam out the real winners).

 

Something about the need for her to seek inpatient treatment, if she is threating to harm others, then why is she not involuntarily commiteed? I don't know how it works where you are, but te first question they always ask when someone enters the mental health care system here is "do you think you want to hurt yourself or someone else". People can be held for 48 hours or more if they are seen as a threat. Why does she have to pay for inpatient mental health care? ( here, it's free. I know in some places it's not, but shouldn't health insurance cover it?)

 

I can honestly say though, that it does sound as if your husband is causing some of this drama all on his own, and you may be getting a very one sided view. Be careful of that.

 

 

The information that you had asked about was how you said she had tried to book a vacation for the same dates at the same resort and even the same flight as you. That sounds really odd. How on earth would she get any of that information? I could see maybe the resort and even the dates, but the flight number? That sounds really strange. How would she have found that out? Either she is breaking in and finding documents/computer files with that info., or someone is feeding her very specific information. Who would do that and why?

 

She does need to move on and leave the two of you alone. If not for herself, then for the kids. That is why i suggested the counseling. She may not want to go, but perhaps if it was framed as " it will help the kids and it won't cost that much" then maybe she will go for it. Is there any way that the two of you could offer to help pa for it? It may be worth it in the long run.

[whichwayisup]

He needs to talk to her and ask her to stop. He needs to once and for all apologize and genuinally mean it - For having an affair, for cheating on her, for hurting her. He needs to make her understand that she has to let go and live her life again. She has to stop with the hidden notes..

 

I'm sure this hasn't been easy on her, especially since she was married to him and you two had an affair, so feels like you took away her husband and helped break up their family unit.

 

Be kind to her. You don't have to be her friend or a buddy, but just respect her as the mother of your step children.

 

As for the pictures, put them all in a new photo album. Make sure the kids are aware of this too so it doesn't seem like you're hiding their photos that their mom sent them and replacing pictures with ones that you took.

[Anne Boleyn]

You have the right to feel comfortable in your own home, and if the pictures bother you, scan them, send her back the originals and keep the scanned copies.

 

If they don't, then follow your husbands wishes. If he wants them down, take them down.

 

Thank you. Edit to add, they don't bother me but they do bother him, which is why he took them down at work. He said he doesn't mind a scanned copy of the one at home, but he'd prefer a new picture anyway. I think what he said was scan the picture, chuck the original, but put the scan away for a time too.

 

Have you ever considered counseling for the three of you? I know that may sound weird, but I have heard it des help ( my brother, who did M his ow , got some with his ex-w and his new w. It helped everyone to heal, and although his new marriage didn't last, it real helped with the relationship with his first w. It mean they are better able to co-parent, etc. and the kids cam out the real winners).

We have suggested it and we asked the court to compel her to do it, but she declined. The court didn't compel her because the judge said that because she controls her outbursts to largely when the kids aren't present, that she had a degree of control that she was choosing not to exercise and thus not something they could pursue in family court. She initially said that she didn't want to do it because she thought we'd just gang up on her and the therapist would side with us... To be fair, a worry she's entitled to... Not because we would but because it would feel like two vs one and after a major incident that occured in their marriage before our PA, her father also sided with her husband and is very close to my husband and I... I can see why she's distrustful. And she won't go now because she says she doesn't need it.

 

When it comes to the kids and co-parenting, to be fair again, she's not a bad parent. We do have them half of the time or more and she doesn't involve the kids in these squabbles. It's the three of us for parent teacher conferences and school functions, we all go to games, so on that front, we're unified. I'd say 9 out of 10 kid-related interactions go fine and that 1 that doesn't is because of the schedule on seeing the kids. She tends to dictate when we'll take them and if we say anything other than OK she has a meltdown.

 

The other issues are strictly relationship related.

 

Something about the need for her to seek inpatient treatment, if she is threating to harm others, then why is she not involuntarily commiteed? I don't know how it works where you are, but te first question they always ask when someone enters the mental health care system here is "do you think you want to hurt yourself or someone else". People can be held for 48 hours or more if they are seen as a threat. Why does she have to pay for inpatient mental health care? ( here, it's free. I know in some places it's not, but shouldn't health insurance cover it?)

The only time she threatened directly to hurt somebody was when she rammed our car. We called the police, she denied ever doing it and said it was an accident. We told him that wasn't true, but he said that because nothing could be proven, there wasn't much they could do besides warn her and tell her she risks jail. The rest they said we had to take up with insurance. That was our breaking point and we did try to have something done, as did her father, but we were told flat out that unless she was saying she'd hurt herself (she wasn't), or the police said that she said she was going to harm somebody else, only family could pursue the court process to have her committed after an examination. My husband was not family by this time, they were divorced, so that responsibility fell to her parents. Her father wanted to pursue it, her mother did not. When they went to court, he said that it was needed, she testified it wasn't. It was determined by the judge that if even if he ordered it and she went in and got evaluated for a commitment, since she told the police she didn't say what she said, the overwhelming likelihood was she'd say it again and they would have no reason to force her to treatment. He said paired with her mother saying she was fine, he thought to order it would waste everybody's time.

 

As for paying for it, the facilities she examined were not covered by health insurance. I don't know more specifics there, only what I heard from my husband as was relayed by her father. This seems legitimate as I'm now on the insurance she was at at the time, and they only cover 15 days of "mental health treatment," and it has to be diagnosed by a PCP before it's covered. Again, I do not know specifics, only vague discussions about it we had about 4 years ago. It didn't seem like my issue to get involved in.

I can honestly say though, that it does sound as if your husband is causing some of this drama all on his own, and you may be getting a very one sided view. Be careful of that.

While I have no doubt he is causing drama, I can say with moderate to high confidence it isn't intentional. For example, I know taking down the pictures at his desk and office I don't think he realized would cause the reaction in her it did... But I also know that if she asked for the pictures back, he probably said no, which would have provoked it further. While my husband doesn't generally intend to cause drama, he doesn't really make choices that will end it... Again, not intentionally, but I think he's jaded in his dealings with her and feels if he gives an inch, she'll take a mile, and it's just easier to be firm and resolute in what he wants. Again, to go to the pictures, if he did say no, I know it'd be because if he didn't want to see him at his desk, he wouldn't want to see them at her workspace in sightline of his, or possibly because he'd think she'd interpret the gesture to mean more than it does. And I think he's been burned enough by the reaffirming of a relationship to people where there isn't one that he does take more chances than needed (I don't think he needs any) to reaffirm that no, there's nothing there... Another reason why he'd maybe not give the pictures back.

 

Not sure if that makes sense... I can try to clean it up if it doesn't.

 

The information that you had asked about was how you said she had tried to book a vacation for the same dates at the same resort and even the same flight as you. That sounds really odd. How on earth would she get any of that information? I could see maybe the resort and even the dates, but the flight number? That sounds really strange. How would she have found that out? Either she is breaking in and finding documents/computer files with that info., or someone is feeding her very specific information. Who would do that and why?

The vacation where she booked the same dates, resorts, and attempted flight was a "learn the hard way" sort of thing. First off, she got the dates because he said he was unavailable to take the kids during those dates. When she asked why, he said he was out-of-town from X day to Y day. She asked where he was going, he said MYOB. She said she had to know in case there was an emergency because if there was a plane crash or she needed to get ahold of him because of the kids, she wouldn't know how to do so. Honestly, it seemed common sense to let her know this information because of the kids. So he gave her the phone number of the resort. Flights he was less specific on because we didn't have the information on hand at the time (I was standing next to him for this discussion so I know this is how it went), so he said that all he could remember is we were the first flight of the day at A airline from B airport to C airport, nonstop, and the last flight back from C airport to B airport on A airline. And that was all she needed to book and get flights.

 

The error in the flights was that we were actually the second flight out, not the first, and second-to-last, not the last, because the first and last flights were more expensive. She booked the flights she thought we had, not realizing we actually were on the next flights.

 

She has tried it since, but we don't give her that information anymore. We say cell phones are enough and leaves it there. What she gets, she gets via Facebook (I'm friends with people that are common friends with friends she has in common, so when said common friend liked/commented on my feed, they could see it and they relayed it to her to either cause trouble or... Honestly, I don't know) and she tries to piece it together from there, but unsuccessfully. Or she gets it because I blog and write about a destination in particular and I'll mention I'm going there for X event, though I'm not specific on details.

 

This last time that's where she got the information and booked a corresponding vacation at the hotel we always stay at. However, she didn't realize the event I was traveling for changed its dates until later in the month, that just my son and my family are going (not my husband), and that we're staying at the resort my family usually stays at, not the one my husband and I always stay at. So despite trying to copy the reservations, she'll be there 2 weeks before me. She actually said she booked the vacation in the hopes of meeting up and was angry he didn't tell her that she got the dates wrong and he wasn't going until after it was too late to change things.

 

She does need to move on and leave the two of you alone. If not for herself, then for the kids. That is why i suggested the counseling. She may not want to go, but perhaps if it was framed as " it will help the kids and it won't cost that much" then maybe she will go for it. Is there any way that the two of you could offer to help pa for it? It may be worth it in the long run.

I think even if we were to pay, she wouldn't go. We've floated this numerous times, but she's not responsive. She'll do marital counseling, she says, but nothing else. I agree though, ideally we could do something together though since I think it'd help a lot.

[Quiet Storm]

The issue isn't the picture itself, that doesn't bother him, even though it's taken at his ex's house (his former house), it's just the note aspect of it. It bothers him to have love notes of his ex-wife, who we continue to have issues with, around the house. I guess it's best described as he's over HER, but not over the behaviors. I talked about in another thread that I'm much the same way, though because it's a picture of the kids, it's ignorable as far as I'm concerned.

 

"Happy Father's Day! (Child's name) picked the frame and the picture out just for you. We love you and we hope this picture stays in this frame for all you (sic) Father's Day. Thank you for being their father and for loving them with all you can. We love you very much and I know this won't be our last Father's Day as a family. I love you and I know you will come home to us soon and we can go on the way God intended us to be. I have faith in you and God that you see where you need to be. Happy Father's Day! Love always (signature, sans kids names)"

 

I wouldn't consider this a love note. It is not romantic at all. She is allowed to love him as the father of her children, even after a divorce.

 

I think that making this letter out to be such an important thing after nearly 4 years is alarming. It is on the back of a photo, so no one else will see it. I think it is odd that your husband is so emotionally involved that he feels that an old fathers day note is tainting his home.

 

The biggest reminders of his relationship with her are the kids. I hope he doesn't resent his kids for being reminders of his horrible exwife.

 

There are many options for removing the words and keeping the photo- scanning, a black sharpie, white out, a piece of paper & a glue stick, a cotton ball with bleach on it, etc.

[ladydesigner]

I wouldn't consider this a love note. It is not romantic at all. She is allowed to love him as the father of her children, even after a divorce.

 

I think that making this letter out to be such an important thing after nearly 4 years is alarming. It is on the back of a photo, so no one else will see it. I think it is odd that your husband is so emotionally involved that he feels that an old fathers day note is tainting his home.

 

The biggest reminders of his relationship with her are the kids. I hope he doesn't resent his kids for being reminders of his horrible exwife.

 

There are many options for removing the words and keeping the photo- scanning, a black sharpie, white out, a piece of paper & a glue stick, a cotton ball with bleach on it, etc.

 

I agree with QS why such an alarming response? I would remove the note and just reframe the pic.

[eleanorrigby]

As for the pictures, put them all in a new photo album. Make sure the kids are aware of this too so it doesn't seem like you're hiding their photos that their mom sent them and replacing pictures with ones that you took.

 

I like this idea. Put all new pictures in the frames around the house and just put those pictures with the notes away for the kids when they are adults. They might like to read those notes one day in the future.

[Lady2163]

I wouldn't consider this a love note. It is not romantic at all. She is allowed to love him as the father of her children, even after a divorce.

 

I think that making this letter out to be such an important thing after nearly 4 years is alarming. It is on the back of a photo, so no one else will see it. I think it is odd that your husband is so emotionally involved that he feels that an old fathers day note is tainting his home.

 

The biggest reminders of his relationship with her are the kids. I hope he doesn't resent his kids for being reminders of his horrible exwife.

 

There are many options for removing the words and keeping the photo- scanning, a black sharpie, white out, a piece of paper & a glue stick, a cotton ball with bleach on it, etc.

 

while I agree this isn't a love note....it is a manipulations note. It is meant to paint the father in a bad light..."I love you, even though you don't want to treat us right" is essentially what it says. The kids reading this note will think their father abandonede them without cause. It is meant to make him feel guilty.

 

I'm just taking into account everything else the OP has said about the BS.

[eleanorrigby]

while I agree this isn't a love note....it is a manipulations note. It is meant to paint the father in a bad light..."I love you, even though you don't want to treat us right" is essentially what it says. The kids reading this note will think their father abandonede them without cause. It is meant to make him feel guilty.

If he knows that the distortion/manipulation is not true, then those notes shouldn't make him feel guilty.

Also the mom appears to have mental health issues, the kids must have noticed. It shouldn't be a foregone conclusion that they will read those notes and decide that what she wrote was/is the truth of the situation.

They were there, they saw what happened. They will know.

 

The notes might be helpful for them one day to read through and help them process/understand their mothers illness.

[Keenly]

Its his picture.... let him do with it what he pleases. You don't really get a say in this. At least, you should concede your " say " out of respect for your husband and his feelings.

[Anne Boleyn]

I wouldn't consider this a love note. It is not romantic at all. She is allowed to love him as the father of her children, even after a divorce.

 

I think it was this part: "We love you very much and I know this won't be our last Father's Day as a family. I love you and I know you will come home to us soon and we can go on the way God intended us to be. I have faith in you and God that you see where you need to be"that made him think that this isn't a note from the mother of his children to the father of her children, it's a note from an ex-wife who doesn't acknowledge the relationship as over, despite the fact that it is, leaving a note that is somewhat creepy in context and indicative of a pattern.

 

I think that making this letter out to be such an important thing after nearly 4 years is alarming. It is on the back of a photo, so no one else will see it. I think it is odd that your husband is so emotionally involved that he feels that an old fathers day note is tainting his home.

 

Nobody made it out to be an important thing... I found it and said "Did you know about this?" He read it and said "Well, that's really weird. Maybe it's time to put the picture away." I said "We don't have to, I just didn't know if she wrote this on the back." He said "No, I didn't... Let's put another picture in the frame, one that doesn't have her notes all over it." I said "It's really not a big deal, I didn't show you because I wanted you to do something about it" and his last and final response "I know, but it takes away from the picture knowing she wrote that on the back. It feels like it's not a kid's picture, it's another crazy letter she wrote using the kid's picture as the stationary. I just want to move on from that whole period of everything. Maybe we can find another picture of the kids from around the same time."

 

And that was it. Tainting the home, no, but sliding notes in under his nose to prove a point? Considering the history, I think that's not a baseless feeling of his.

 

The biggest reminders of his relationship with her are the kids. I hope he doesn't resent his kids for being reminders of his horrible exwife.

 

Absolutely not... He's not thinking about putting in another picture because he has a problem with the kids. He wants another picture because he doesn't like she wrote a letter on it. He thinks she used a picture of the kids to send a note to him and he'd rather put in a different picture with no note.

 

There are many options for removing the words and keeping the photo- scanning, a black sharpie, white out, a piece of paper & a glue stick, a cotton ball with bleach on it, etc.

 

As you can see, I said the scanning idea while discarding the original is a good idea.

[Anne Boleyn]

I agree with QS why such an alarming response? I would remove the note and just reframe the pic.

 

I don't know why people think that anybody's response was alarming? If it was a separate note it would be obvious to throw the note away and leave the picture. But the note is on the picture. I think the scanning idea is a good one.

[Anne Boleyn]

I like this idea. Put all new pictures in the frames around the house and just put those pictures with the notes away for the kids when they are adults. They might like to read those notes one day in the future.

 

I know that's not how we'd go about it. We try to keep the crazy aspect of things away from the kids and I don't know that they'd take comfort as adults in their mother saying things like that several years after their marriage ended. It doesn't make her look like a sane person. I'd rather they not know that's how their mother acted and I know he feels the same. They're young enough to not remember and presumably when they're older, she'll have moved on and be settled and this behavior long done.

 

However I feel about her personally I don't want the kids to look back at her and say that she acted in a way that makes her look bad.

[Anne Boleyn]

If he knows that the distortion/manipulation is not true, then those notes shouldn't make him feel guilty.

 

Again, this isn't a guilt issue. It's a sigh, another one of these from her, issue. He's bothered by the kids picture being used to get a message to him like that and would rather not look at the picture knowing that's on the back.

 

Also the mom appears to have mental health issues, the kids must have noticed. It shouldn't be a foregone conclusion that they will read those notes and decide that what she wrote was/is the truth of the situation.

They were there, they saw what happened. They will know.

 

Neither of them are at an age even now where they know what their mother's issues are. They certainly were not at the time. Both of them have no memories of the separation or divorce, though the oldest one remembers when they took day trips together.

 

The notes might be helpful for them one day to read through and help them process/understand their mothers illness.

 

I don't know... I don't want the kids to have anything but the best opinion of her. Showing her in this light, it seems more like kicking her while she's down than letting light into her issues. I'd rather, if things like this came up and they have questions, we can sit and talk to them, not show them a note like this and leave it like that.

[Anne Boleyn]

Its his picture.... let him do with it what he pleases. You don't really get a say in this. At least, you should concede your " say " out of respect for your husband and his feelings.

 

Obviously if he wants it, I'm not going to war over his wishes to take down a pictures because it has a note from his ex. I just figured it'd be a good discussion and out of it I got some good ideas.

 

It's not like I'm going to say "I demand you keep the picture with the weird letter from your ex up."

[eleanorrigby]

I know that's not how we'd go about it. We try to keep the crazy aspect of things away from the kids and I don't know that they'd take comfort as adults in their mother saying things like that several years after their marriage ended. It doesn't make her look like a sane person. I'd rather they not know that's how their mother acted and I know he feels the same. They're young enough to not remember and presumably when they're older, she'll have moved on and be settled and this behavior long done.

 

However I feel about her personally I don't want the kids to look back at her and say that she acted in a way that makes her look bad.

 

When their older she may be worse and have even more serious mental health issues. If mom is not getting any help she probably won't get better and the kids will visit mom, see the problems and have to deal with them.

 

You won't be able to pretend this isn't an issue forever, sooner or later it's something you will have to deal with as a family.

[ladydesigner]

I don't know why people think that anybody's response was alarming? If it was a separate note it would be obvious to throw the note away and leave the picture. But the note is on the picture. I think the scanning idea is a good one.

 

I believe it was your H's response that initially sparked that thought. Yes if the writing is on the picture I agree scanning would be much better. I understand the position the Ex wife is in so I feel sorry for her. She had her whole family ripped apart, it's not something very easy to get over. It sounds like she needs serious psychological help so that she realizes the end of her M was not because of her,but because of him.

[Anne Boleyn]

When their older she may be worse and have even more serious mental health issues. If mom is not getting any help she probably won't get better and the kids will visit mom, see the problems and have to deal with them.

 

You won't be able to pretend this isn't an issue forever, sooner or later it's something you will have to deal with as a family.

 

I know things will get worse, I'm under no illusion, I just don't know if they'd like letters that show she's been having problems for that long. I don't want them to think less of her, or think it impacted how she loves them.

[pteromom]

The letter is written on the back of the picture itself.

 

Get some spray adhesive from the craft store, and glue a pretty piece of scrapbook paper over it, or a poem about your family.

[Anne Boleyn]

I believe it was your H's response that initially sparked that thought. Yes if the writing is on the picture I agree scanning would be much better. I understand the position the Ex wife is in so I feel sorry for her. She had her whole family ripped apart, it's not something very easy to get over. It sounds like she needs serious psychological help so that she realizes the end of her M was not because of her,but because of him.

 

I think part of the reason she doesn't acknowledge the end of the marriage, save for when she's dating, is she knows the initial time he left, before the PA, was actually 100% her fault.

 

To be extremely, 100% clear... We did have an affair, they were together, and I acknowledge that it was not right. We should have waited until we were both divorced for even beginning to pursue a relationship, EA, PA, or otherwise. Yes, this was a factor in the divorce. Pointing it out is in no way, shape, or form trying to divert responsibility. I do think, however, the events that took place before the affair which were the same impact of DDay play a role in why she acts like she does. I think she feels like she didn't get the opportunity to fix things because of the PA.

[ladydesigner]

I think part of the reason she doesn't acknowledge the end of the marriage, save for when she's dating, is she knows the initial time he left, before the PA, was actually 100% her fault.

 

To be extremely, 100% clear... We did have an affair, they were together, and I acknowledge that it was not right. We should have waited until we were both divorced for even beginning to pursue a relationship, EA, PA, or otherwise. Yes, this was a factor in the divorce. Pointing it out is in no way, shape, or form trying to divert responsibility. I do think, however, the events that took place before the affair which were the same impact of DDay play a role in why she acts like she does. I think she feels like she didn't get the opportunity to fix things because of the PA.

 

Sorry but I don't agree. His A with you whether it was PA or not at that time was on him not her. The logic you are using doesn't make any sense to me.

[eleanorrigby]

I know things will get worse, I'm under no illusion, I just don't know if they'd like letters that show she's been having problems for that long. I don't want them to think less of her, or think it impacted how she loves them.

 

Maybe seeing and realizing how long mom has dealt with her mental health issues and knowing that she had them when they were children will be helpful to them as adults.

 

Maybe they won't think less of her, maybe they will have empathy for how hard and long her struggle has been.

 

Maybe it will help them understand that her problems did impact how she loved them. (don't you think they will?)

 

Just give it some thought before you start a backyard bonfire.

 

(I hope my post isn't confusing, I'm projecting my thoughts years into the future.)

[Anne Boleyn]

Sorry but I don't agree. His A with you whether it was PA or not at that time was on him not her. The logic you are using doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I admitted the affair was not her.

 

I was saying, however, there was an event that was as significant as DDay that happened to him as a result of actions that were 100% all her that caused him to leave and separate and ask for a divorce. She didn't take the separation well at all, and had the same behavior that she displayed during the actual final divorce. They reconciled afterwards because she was pregnant, but I think she feels like the PA prevented her from really getting a chance to actually fix the damage she did.

[ladydesigner]

I admitted the affair was not her.

 

I was saying, however, there was an event that was as significant as DDay that happened to him as a result of actions that were 100% all her that caused him to leave and separate and ask for a divorce. She didn't take the separation well at all, and had the same behavior that she displayed during the actual final divorce. They reconciled afterwards because she was pregnant, but I think she feels like the PA prevented her from really getting a chance to actually fix the damage she did.

 

I see I did not get that part. Well geez I do hope she gets some help. There's no turning back time. Sounds like medication would be very helpful to her as well.

[Anne Boleyn]

Maybe seeing and realizing how long mom has dealt with her mental health issues and knowing that she had them when they were children will be helpful to them as adults.

 

Maybe they won't think less of her, maybe they will have empathy for how hard and long her struggle has been.

 

Maybe it will help them understand that her problems did impact how she loved them. (don't you think they will?)

 

Just give it some thought before you start a backyard bonfire.

 

(I hope my post isn't confusing, I'm projecting my thoughts years into the future.)

 

No, I get what you're saying. It's actually a perspective I've never had or considered before, so I appreciate hearing it, even if you're simply talking it out or spitballing ideas.

 

I'm not sure if they'd look back at that and say that they were glad to know she had been suffering so long, or be bothered she'd been struggling for so long. Maybe the best course is to advise hanging on to the picture and, if it seems like sharing that information down the road with the letter is beneficial, we can. If not, we can just let it go.

 

Personally, if it were me, I'm not sure I'd want to know, but that's not my choice to make. I'd like to think there was a time where she was OK. Speaking rhetorically on if it was my mother, I mean.

 

I'm not quite sure how to bring it up to my husband and I think, ultimately it's his choice... I'm not sure he'll go for it and I don't feel OK with taking it and holding on to it without his knowledge... But it is interesting to think about.

[Anne Boleyn]

I see I did not get that part. Well geez I do hope she gets some help. There's no turning back time. Sounds like medication would be very helpful to her as well.

 

I'm not sure. I don't want to speculate... But I do agree, I guess I didn't think about how significant her mental problems could potentially be. I ignored it as "scorned ex" and let it be. If it's something else, that won't change that I'll let it be, but it's an interesting perspective.