An update

[Nothisgirl]

Just a quick update. MM and I have been on limited contact for weeks now initiated by me. It's been very hard, like losing a best friend..in fact I went away for a few days to clear my head.. Gain some space... I'm back now and he asked to see me. He said he's ready to leave and wants us to be together. The problem is he doesn't have a timeline yet although he has acknowledged that he realizes I won't go on with an indefinite date...the other problem is idk what I want, I feel very strongly that idk how I could trust him if we were together and I have been very vocal to him about this...I almost feel like I need to tell him Nc at all until he actually DOES leave and then we can go from there. Start anew..I really don't think I can or want to walk him through his D (if it happens)...I want all of the things he is saying to be true but idk how to believe that the pt are

 

He's very emotional right now and certainly saying all the right things, but I still feel very guarded...

 

Any advice? Particularly from those who have ended up with mm

 

Thanks in advance

[Owl]

Tell him that you'd be happy to see him...when he's actually left her, living on his own, and working through the divorce proceedings.

 

But until he's met that criteria...YOU aren't ready to see HIM.

 

Set some boundaries, and keep them.

[Lady2163]

I also think if you draw your line in the sand now, it will save you heartache later.

 

Other than you, what is his motivation to leave? If he has you on the side and devoted, then he can drag it out indefinitely.

 

One time I was working in a place where I had to exercise a great deal of diplomacy. I was being hit on hard by a married man, who could make my job hell if I handled it wrong. (No, sexual harassment reports would not have helped me). I knew I was going to be stuck with him yet again for an hour.

 

I was dreading it, until I realized a way out of it. He wasn't a horrible person. I could reject him, without rejecting him.

 

When he again tried to pressure me, I turned to him and said, "it's not that I'm a prude or a saint. I'm a very kind and giving person. You've known me for several months, you've seen how I handle the 46 people who work for me. I have a lot of compassion. I'm devoted to my aging mother. I like you, but for us to go in the direction you want, you have to tell me just one thing. Tell me what makes me lacking as a person that the only relationship I should have, the only one I should settle for is an affair? What evil did I do that makes it all I deserve?"

 

He looked at me and said, "You know, you're right.". He became one of my biggest champions and supporters after that.

 

One other thing...thinking ahead...how long after he leaves his wife, how long into or after the divorce process is he going to expect you to keep the relationship "secret"? I had a boyfriend once who kept refusing to be "public". My divorce was final in January, I was ready to be open in March. In August I realized he was still trying to win back his ex-girlfriend, which was why he was keeping it private. He had been telling her he was pining for her.

[sunburned]

I believe you are one of the (many) OWs who claimed she did not want her MM leaving his marriage just for her, but rather because he was unhappy with the marriage. I admit I did not go back through your posts to see if that is correct in your case. There was a post in the past day or so re MM style manipulation (tears, pleading, etc.). I am NOT saying he is doing that to you.

 

But the only way you will know is if you wait until after his divorce to date. In fact you said yourself you do not want to hold his hand during divorce. Well what exactly do you think will happen if you date him before it is over? If you take him in now, you will become the homewrecker -- you know the type that broke up your marriage?

 

 

 

I just don't understand why you don't follow your earlier instincts. They were on!

Edited January 31, 2014 by sunburned

[goodyblue]

I was one who walked with my guy through the divorce process. It was difficult at times and I had to try to make sure I wasn't becoming completely embroiled in it. But... we didn't really ever have trust issues, so that's something different that you're going to have to work out.

 

It is possible to go through it with him. The important thing is to keep perspective and realize that he's going to be going through a sh*t ton of emotion and he is going to feel guilty. That was tough. We just made sure to keep it very low key, we didn't flaunt our relationship in public (we did go out, but were careful to not frequent places his ex wife went).

 

Good luck in your decisions. It's certainly not easy to make them!

 

XX

[Nothisgirl]

Tell him that you'd be happy to see him...when he's actually left her, living on his own, and working through the divorce proceedings.

 

But until he's met that criteria...YOU aren't ready to see HIM.

 

Set some boundaries, and keep them.

 

And when he is sobbing on my door step HOW do I turn him away? Make him realize I am serious? I have read on here about Ow threatening to tell the W, I'd really rather not go there...

 

I clearly have issues setting and sticking to boundaries...I've always been someone who is overly concerned with how the ppl I care for feel and will often sacrifice my own feelings/values/needs to make sure I don't upset anyone ( I don't say this to seem like a martyr I say it because its something I've started to work through in IC)

[Nothisgirl]

I believe you are one of the (many) OWs who claimed she did not want her MM leaving his marriage just for her, but rather because he was unhappy with the marriage. I admit I did not go back through your posts to see if that is correct in your case. There was a post in the past day or so re MM style manipulation (tears, pleading, etc.). I am NOT saying he is doing that to you.

 

But the only way you will know is if you wait until after his divorce to date. In fact you said yourself you do not want to hold his hand during divorce. Well what exactly do you think will happen if you date him before it is over? If you take him in now, you will become the homewrecker -- you know the type that broke up your marriage?

 

 

 

I just don't understand why you don't follow your earlier instincts. They were on!

 

Yes, that's me. I don't think he is intentionally manipulating me however the tears/pleading has increased since I said I needed space. He claims its because he is just so overwhelmed with emotion for me.

 

Thank you for that. You are (as usual lol) 100% correct. I don't want to be the home wrecker and really do want to be as far away from him as possible if he does leave. Thank you for the harsh but much needed reminder

[Nothisgirl]

I was one who walked with my guy through the divorce process. It was difficult at times and I had to try to make sure I wasn't becoming completely embroiled in it. But... we didn't really ever have trust issues, so that's something different that you're going to have to work out.

 

It is possible to go through it with him. The important thing is to keep perspective and realize that he's going to be going through a sh*t ton of emotion and he is going to feel guilty. That was tough. We just made sure to keep it very low key, we didn't flaunt our relationship in public (we did go out, but were careful to not frequent places his ex wife went).

 

Good luck in your decisions. It's certainly not easy to make them!

 

XX

 

Thank you so much for your response....I really admire your strength in doing that. In being able to support him through his separation.

 

How did you go from A to R w/ no trust issues?

[ClemsonTigers]

 

How did you go from A to R w/ no trust issues?

 

Denial.

 

Affair relationships and affairages never work out. I have personally witnessed hundreds of them and they are all dysfunctional and completely unrepairable (though I have tried, in some cases, knowing and in others not knowing until the end…meaning they hid that fact from me until I discovered it much later in our sessions).

 

The reality is>>>>When you marry your affair partner, you marry a KNOWN cheater that has no respect for the institution of marriage. "Trust" is or should be impossible absent denial of that reality.

 

Please maintain your distance from the MM. He will just suck you back into the death spiral of infidelity and adultery. He doesn't really care about you he just wants you back in your space you occupy in his life as his sidepiece. You MIGHT be able to manipulate away from his main piece but that will only get you a broken man missing his real wife. Plus…YOU need space so you can get and maintain perspective that this is unhealthy for you. Just maintain "no contact" a day at a time because there is nothing special about this man and this relationship that 6 months and eventually a real healthy relationship with a single caring man (that you deserve) won't fix. "Closure" is code for "just let me have sex with you one more time".

[Nothisgirl]

Denial.

 

Affair relationships and affairages never work out. I have personally witnessed hundreds of them and they are all dysfunctional and completely unrepairable (though I have tried, in some cases, knowing and in others not knowing until the end…meaning they hid that fact from me until I discovered it much later in our sessions).

 

The reality is>>>>When you marry your affair partner, you marry a KNOWN cheater that has no respect for the institution of marriage. "Trust" is or should be impossible absent denial of that reality

 

Please maintain your distance from the MM. He will just suck you back into the death spiral of infidelity and adultery. He doesn't really care about you he just wants you back in your space you occupy in his life as his sidepiece. You MIGHT be able to manipulate away from his main piece but that will only get you a broken man missing his real wife. Plus…YOU need space so you can get and maintain perspective that this is unhealthy for you. Just maintain "no contact" a day at a time because there is nothing special about this man and this relationship that 6 months and eventually a real healthy relationship with a single caring man (that you deserve) won't fix. "Closure" is code for "just let me have sex with you one more time".

 

The bolded is how I feel...like if I am his wife then that leaves the spot of OW open and although he swears up and down he'd never cheat on me I don't believe him.i want to but I don't. Just typing this I Had a lightbulb moment. Like if he can't even set a concrete plan to actually leave and restart his life how can I trust he won't cheat on me too.

 

I've been journaling my feelings since I started IC and just yesterday I wrote about feeling like my feelings for him are being tainted by my guilt and shame does that make sense? I really feel like I am losing respect for him...

 

So I am guessing from your post you are a marriage counsellor? See what I can't quite seem to do is stick to NC like for some reason even though I feel great relief once I've initiated I get sucked back in... Any advice on a concrete plan??

 

Thanks for your advice I really appreciate it

[anne1707]

Affair relationships and affairages never work out. I have personally witnessed hundreds of them and they are all dysfunctional and completely unrepairable (though I have tried, in some cases, knowing and in others not knowing until the end…meaning they hid that fact from me until I discovered it much later in our sessions).

 

So my father and stepmother's happy and loving marriage of over 30 years is not a success then?

[Nothisgirl]

So my father and stepmother's happy and loving marriage of over 30 years is not a success then?

 

 

 

My father and stepmother have been together over 20 yrs as well and their relationship started from an affair...that said, I agree with Clemson and do not think that's the norm.

[ClemsonTigers]

See what I can't quite seem to do is stick to NC like for some reason even though I feel great relief once I've initiated I get sucked back in... Any advice on a concrete plan??

 

Thanks for your advice I really appreciate it

 

You are welcome…

 

 

Consider it an addiction. "No Contact" one day at a time. You are already thinking much more clearly but if you meet up with him…he'll say what he needs to say and you'll hear what you need to hear to get yourself all worked up believing again…"what if this magically thing can work", "maybe OUR love is special and unique and enduring". If you stick to "no contact" you'll avoid falling into and continuing the affair loop. You'll give yourself the chance to think yourself…LOGICALLY…out of this situation versus relying on your FEELINGS. FEELINGS LIE.

 

Ending it is the right thing to do. Nobody ever regrets doing the right thing. You know it…that's why you are here seeking encouragement and support. It's also the right thing for HIM to do. If you care about him like you say you do…you'll end it for him too.

 

Relationships built on lies, deceit and betrayal are toxic. I don't care how many examples of 10, 20, 30 year affair marriage that SEEM happy are presented as evidence because I've talked to them. I've tried to help them. They are almost always delusional and I actually have changed tactics and encouraged them to end/divorce versus wasting everyone's lives trying to fix something broke before it even began.

 

I really wish you well and again, just do the right thing today and let tomorrow take care of itself.

 

Some tips: change your phone number, move, change jobs, close your Facebook and cancel your email account. Cut off all avenues of contact and I promise in 6 months you'll be shocked you even considered dating this married man let alone riding off into the sunset with him. Join Match.com or other dating website and date at least 10 guys in the next 6 months without committing or having sex with any of them….learn how to date appropriately again…OUT IN PUBLIC instead of as someone's shameful secret.

 

Sorry if this was too harsh.

[txgrl]

Clemson , no no no Ure NOT harsh , u're RIGHT!!! We live in a society where many have started to believe life is actually the way it happens on tv and in stupid movies . It's not !!! An when someone calls a spade a spade , we give then flak for it .

Kudos for saying the right thing!!! ???

[whythis]

I haven't read everything about your MM but based on what I gather I do think there feelings and tears are real. My only concern about maintaining contact with him is that you'd enable him to think it is OKAY to make you wait without a definite date out of his marriage. His need to be out of his marriage for himself has to override everything else. Clearly, your feelings for him at not at question here so there is no need to feel bad for sticking to your boundaries. Ball is in his court. He can make the necessary changes in his life and if he really loves you so much he'd not want to put you through further emotional roller coasters + insecurities. Hope that helps

[goodyblue]

Thank you so much for your response....I really admire your strength in doing that. In being able to support him through his separation.

 

How did you go from A to R w/ no trust issues?

 

I honestly don't know. I just think we've known each other for so long that I knew what he was saying was true, that I have always trusted him. I trust him implicitly. Also, I think being fully open and talking about everything really makes it easy.

 

We also did some counseling as well as the counseling he did on his own. I kinda thought it was silly, but it helped him to get over the guilt he had in leaving his wife.

Edited February 2, 2014 by goodyblue

[Nothisgirl]

You are welcome…

 

 

Consider it an addiction. "No Contact" one day at a time. You are already thinking much more clearly but if you meet up with him…he'll say what he needs to say and you'll hear what you need to hear to get yourself all worked up believing again…"what if this magically thing can work", "maybe OUR love is special and unique and enduring". If you stick to "no contact" you'll avoid falling into and continuing the affair loop. You'll give yourself the chance to think yourself…LOGICALLY…out of this situation versus relying on your FEELINGS. FEELINGS LIE.

 

Ending it is the right thing to do. Nobody ever regrets doing the right thing. You know it…that's why you are here seeking encouragement and support. It's also the right thing for HIM to do. If you care about him like you say you do…you'll end it for him too.

 

Relationships built on lies, deceit and betrayal are toxic. I don't care how many examples of 10, 20, 30 year affair marriage that SEEM happy are presented as evidence because I've talked to them. I've tried to help them. They are almost always delusional and I actually have changed tactics and encouraged them to end/divorce versus wasting everyone's lives trying to fix something broke before it even began.

 

I really wish you well and again, just do the right thing today and let tomorrow take care of itself.

 

Some tips: change your phone number, move, change jobs, close your Facebook and cancel your email account. Cut off all avenues of contact and I promise in 6 months you'll be shocked you even considered dating this married man let alone riding off into the sunset with him. Join Match.com or other dating website and date at least 10 guys in the next 6 months without committing or having sex with any of them….learn how to date appropriately again…OUT IN PUBLIC instead of as someone's shameful secret.

 

Sorry if this was too harsh.

 

 

It wasn't too harsh in fact that's exactly what I needed to hear I've been thinking about that for the past couple days... about how I need to rely on my thoughts, on my rational side and not on my feelings alone. It's those exact same feelings that of allowed me to justify my behaviour because "we love each other" for the past year thank you very much I appreciate your candid response.

 

Also, ironically enough, on friday my therapist also suggested i think of this A as an addiction. Really interesting I've never been one to have an addictive personality

[Nothisgirl]

I haven't read everything about your MM but based on what I gather I do think there feelings and tears are real. My only concern about maintaining contact with him is that you'd enable him to think it is OKAY to make you wait without a definite date out of his marriage. His need to be out of his marriage for himself has to override everything else. Clearly, your feelings for him at not at question here so there is no need to feel bad for sticking to your boundaries. Ball is in his court. He can make the necessary changes in his life and if he really loves you so much he'd not want to put you through further emotional roller coasters + insecurities. Hope that helps

 

Thank you, I believe his feelings are real as well but just because we have feelings doesn't give us the right to act on them ...right? I feel like I've been doing that for too long and I've really sacrificed my moral integrity. Thank you for saying that, it made me feel a lot better and you're right the ball IS in his court he CAN make the choices to have me in his life. he knows how I feel and now it's up to him.