Why does it hurt so much to talk to H about his freebee?

[AlwaysGrowing]

I think Jane hit on the most important aspect.

 

Your husband holding you to a standard, that he wouldn't be holding himself to.

 

RA are affairs just like the rest. Filled with selfishness, masking pain and poor coping skills.

 

Not to mention.....USING another person to fill some unmet need inside oneself. What does that say about the person using such a pass.

 

It is never love, when we condone our partners poor choices. We should want more for them than that. Do not give him permission to wear the WS hat badge, love him enough to say NO FN WAY BUDDY.

[Confused48]

He loves you, but he still wants you to pay for your mistakes. It's part revenge, part punishment, mostly all talk, and more than revenge or punishment, it is his way of getting REASSURANCE that you still love him.

 

If you were NOT upset about it, that would bother him greatly.

 

It almost is like some kind of weird duet, or dance, where you bring it up, and he says it, then he feels both good that he hurt you and bad that he hurt you and good that you care enough about him that it hurts you.

 

It feels good when you get upset about it, shows him you really care, which was lacking for quite some time and he really felt it and still feels it that you didn't care about him. He still has a lot of doubts about you, he knows what you are capable of. He hurts. It makes him feel better, even if very temporarily, when you hurt, too. Very fleeting.

 

 

This is all so true for me. I want WS to feel my pain but at th e same time I want to spare WS any pain.

 

 

What Mickey said.

 

Being betrayed you wish to reclaim some power - sometimes some of us BS take the view - I can divorce you any time now - or 10 years from now with no guilt...I got a free pass to divorce you because you cheated. Ok -fair enough...you have that power and control ....but your husband now also has another free pass - to get a piece of ass free and clear. So okay he has alot of power now - BS's need to feel that way for a while.

 

Want my advice? Tell him the free pass for piece of ass expires in 6-12 months cause you both need to move on. **** or get off the pot.

 

Good idea. Call the bluff. I'd say put a 30 day time limit on it.

 

 

I've just felt that CM is wallowing in this and getting a lot of emotional mileage out of it, and by trying to be helpful, you end up encouraging it. Maybe it's just different styles, but it seems very emotional and dramatic, when at times it doesn't need to be (like commemorating the date of the reveal and such).

 

I agree. It is wallowing. It is not good.

 

Once again, this whole idea springs from plain old hypocrisy. IF adultery is wrong, then it is wrong. This whole "it's okay if they did it first" is basically saying "I don't have to be true to my values if you don't hold up your end of the bargain." And isn't that the thing we get onto WS's for doing when they blame a bad marriage for their A's?

 

Irony.

 

How true. Very good point Jane. Thank you.

 

I am trying to imagine how a scenario like this would go down.

 

"Hi. My wife cheated on me so she says I get a freebee to help me heal. Wanna f@#k?"

 

I wonder what the success rate of that pick up line is.

 

LMFAO!!!!!

 

Unless Compulsive Musician is already some kind of playa' or PUA or womanizer or anything, telling him to go have a freebie might as well be telling him to go climb Mt Everest.

 

 

 

R guilt is unfair, unrealistic and even a bit offensive for a guy who's not already a bedpostnotcher.

 

 

By telling him to do that you are rubbing in his face that something you did that was so easy for you, is basically telling him to do the near impossible for him without changing himself into a different species.

 

 

I have to disagree. He could hire a pro. He could take CD to a swingers event. There are lots of ways he could cash in his freebie.

[oldshirt]

 

 

I think it's something in the way he talks about it. Maybe I can feel that he hasn't really forgiven me yet? Maybe I feel like he wants to do it to punish me?

 

 

Could someone please explain the psychology of this to me?

 

 

 

It probably has more to do with the way you talk about it or the fact that you are talking about it at all.

 

 

It's a deep instinctive nature for people to mate-guard and people find security and comfort where their partner is mate-guarding them.

 

 

People also find comfort and security when their partners 'can' have sex with others but decline to do so out of respect for their spouse and for the sake of the marriage.

 

 

You've already committed one of the gravest of violations to the marriage and to his security and comfort and now you are telling him to go out and tear off a piece himself so you will be even and absolve you of your indiscretion. That's a double whammy and a double blow to him.

 

 

that's basically telling him, " you don't mean enough to me that I will resist doing this other because he turns me on, but why do you go ahead and find some skanky nasty chick that will spread her legs for some dude who's wife cheated on him and has given him a hallpass."

 

 

It's a double dose of disrespect and lack of esteem for him and your marriage.

 

 

I am probably the most supportive person of open marriage/swinging/consensual nonmonogamy on this site and I think this whole 'freebie' thing following an affair is completely dysfunctional and counterproductive.

 

 

I'm not familiar with your back story but if you two are not in M/C and have not ran this past a competent therapist, you should definitely do so. If you two are considering a freebie in any way, shape or form, The psychology and such of this runs very deep and is more than what strangers on an internet forum can advise. This needs to be addressed in counseling/therapy.

[oldshirt]

It probably has more to do with the way you talk about it or the fact that you are talking about it at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, so what I am getting at is he probably just reacting to the disrespect you are showing him by saying it's ok with you if he goes out and plugs it into some other chick.

 

 

His appearance of seemingly wanting to punish you or disrespect for you can at least be partly attributed to you acting as if you value his c0ck so little, that not only are you willing to let some other man stick his penis into you, but you also don't care if he sticks his into someone else.

 

 

He is just responding to your disrespect and low value of him with disrespect of his own towards you.

 

 

While a part of me does understand why someone might think that allowing a freebie may be a short cut and "easy-out" to make up for an affair - it isn't. There is just isn't any substitute for full-disclosure, true remorse, sincere apology, addressing pre-existing marital issues, transparency, rebuilding trust etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

 

 

It's a long arduous and at times very painful process. there is no shortcut.

[thummper]

Compulsive, I re-read some of your threads and in one of them you admitted you were still dealing with feelings you had for the OM, and that CM was angry in that he felt you were still "sticking up" for the douche and not throwing him under the bus. (I think that this was in the thread about CM wanting to beat up the former "friend".) Have you been able to deal with those feelings, and could CM's perception of your feelings for the OM have anything to do with the "freebee" thing that's currently being talked about?

[compulsivedancer]

Oldshirt, H asked for it. It was non-negotiatiable as a condition of reconciliation. I am not pushing anything on him to try to alleviate anything. As one of the previous posters mentioned, we were both virgins getting married. I feel like he should be able to experience sex with someone else if he wants to. But that doesn't mean I want him to.

 

H would not have difficulty finding someone. He is a musician and regularly gets hit on. One of his angers after the affair was that he HAS turned down many people over the years and considered it a badge of honor.

 

That said, it is true that he is not the kind of guy to just go out and have casual sex. It is something fairly foreign from his perspective.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

I have to disagree. He could hire a pro. He could take CD to a swingers event. There are lots of ways he could cash in his freebie.

 

 

 

 

 

Ooooh yeah, I'm sure he'd love to hire a ho, that would make him really feel good about the whole thing. Nothing like paying a crack-addicted street walker to have sex with you to make you feel better about the whole thing?

 

 

A high-end professional escort instead? Yeah shelling out a couple thousand will make it feel a lot better even if she does have all her own teeth.

 

 

 

 

Swingers event? I've been in the swinger lifestyle for a handful of months shy of a decade, swingers will see right through them and eat him alive.

 

 

I grew up on a hog farm in the Midwest. The hogs all got along and lived in harmony until one of the pigs got sick or injured or weakened in any way. The minute that happened the other hogs turned on it and ate it down a few scattered bone fragments in a matter of minutes. that's what would happen to him if he tried to cash in a hallpass in the swinger community.

 

 

The swinger community is a place where women get to explore and express their sexuality. A man that shows up at the door with an ax to grind is tarred and feathered and ran out on a rail.

 

 

If they were to walk in the door, she would be the one that everyone would be wanting to get with and everyone would be looking towards her to call the shots. If she had the slightest reservation or hesitation and showed the least bit of weakness that they were there so he could get a hallpass for her affair, he would get his @ss handed to him.

 

 

But all that aside, I'll go back to fundamental factor here, Compulsive Musician isn't a bednotcher. If he was wanting to just bang chicks, he would have been banging chicks. He married the first woman he was with sexually and remained faithful to her and has remained faithful to her in the face of her own infidelity. That doesn't strike me as the kind of person that's going to go down to the redlight district with an extra $100 cash in his pocket or take his wife down to the ol' swingers club just to cash in all an ill-gotten hallpass

[oldshirt]

 

H would not have difficulty finding someone. He is a musician and regularly gets hit on. One of his angers after the affair was that he HAS turned down many people over the years and considered it a badge of honor.

 

That said, it is true that he is not the kind of guy to just go out and have casual sex. It is something fairly foreign from his perspective.

 

 

 

Which I'll go back to what I just said in my last post - if he was wanted to just bang chicks, he would have already been banging them.

[compulsivedancer]

You don't like the conversation, and suggest he talks to another guy about it. On some level, do you wish he'd act on it, without throwing it in your face, so that you are "equal"? Do you imagine that would take some of the heat off of you?

 

If he's going to do it, I want him to do it now and get it over with. I don't know about that taking the heat off of me.

 

We were discussing an open marriage prior to the affair. My fault was less having sex with someone else. The fault was in lying and sneaking around. And not following any of the boundaries H had laid out for me.

 

For me, I could see why he would need to have sex with someone else. He is not planning to lie to me, so it doesn't really even any scores, as far as betrayal goes. I definitely don't put it in the category of RA, like some people do.

 

I just don't want this hanging over our heads for the rest of our lives. Ten years from now, I don't want him to come home and tell me he used his freebe.

 

When we discuss it, it does feel like he's throwing it in my face.

[oldshirt]

Part of me thinks this all just a big gigantic $hit test by both people.

 

 

The hallpass is test he flunks if he does it and it's a test you flunk if you allow it.

 

 

The only way this test can be passed is if it gets smashed down by both parties, set on fire and the ashes disposed of.

[oldshirt]

If he's going to do it, I want him to do it now and get it over with. I don't know about that taking the heat off of me.

 

We were discussing an open marriage prior to the affair. My fault was less having sex with someone else. The fault was in lying and sneaking around. And not following any of the boundaries H had laid out for me.

.

 

 

 

Let me throw something else out there as an experienced swinger (not in an open marriage but close enough to throw this out there - )

 

 

Some form of open marriage may be a viable option at some point....but this AIN'T IT!

 

 

For open marriage to work both people have to be good with it and there has to be an extremely high degree of trust, security, open communication, transparency etc etc. People have to go into it with a rock solid marriage and no baggage.

 

 

You don't have that now.

 

 

Both of you and your marriage have sustained a major injury. That has to be healed and recovered before you can go mashing naughty bits with others.

 

 

Open marriage and hallpasses etc can be on the table but only if both people and the marriage are in a good place. If you are crying and having anxiety attacks when talking about it and you feel that it is being held over your head and punished with it, then you definitely are not there yet.

 

 

Put down this idea until both of you and your marriage are healed and completely recovered and in a good place. That could easily be a couple years or more. Once things are good, you could reexamine that idea and it may work at that point. It won't work now though.

[xxoo]

If he's going to do it, I want him to do it now and get it over with. I don't know about that taking the heat off of me.

 

We were discussing an open marriage prior to the affair. My fault was less having sex with someone else. The fault was in lying and sneaking around. And not following any of the boundaries H had laid out for me.

 

For me, I could see why he would need to have sex with someone else. He is not planning to lie to me, so it doesn't really even any scores, as far as betrayal goes. I definitely don't put it in the category of RA, like some people do.

 

I just don't want this hanging over our heads for the rest of our lives. Ten years from now, I don't want him to come home and tell me he used his freebe.

 

When we discuss it, it does feel like he's throwing it in my face.

 

If you were talking open marriage, and still consider this "freebie" on the level with open marriage stuff (instead of cheating), why not just have an open marriage? Why only one freebie?

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

My H, CompulsiveMusician, recently posted a thread about this past year. BetrayedH asked him whether he had reconsidered his freebee(s). Which of course meant we ended up discussing it again.

 

I find it can't talk about it. For some reason, the thought of him with another woman - just thinking about it - doesn't really hurt. But when we discuss it, it hurts.

 

I don't know if it's the way he talks about it, or what, but I almost immediately find myself crying.

 

Before the A, I didn't care if he slept with someone else. The thought actually kind of turned me on. On the other hand, I was completely secure in our relationship then (at least, on his side), which I am not any more.

 

And if he did it now, he's not looking for a relationship. And he wouldn't be doing it behind my back either. And it would probably be one encounter with a woman or a couple of women, not repeat encounters that would lead to feelings. So what gives?

 

I think it's something in the way he talks about it. Maybe I can feel that he hasn't really forgiven me yet? Maybe I feel like he wants to do it to punish me?

 

I hate the thought of having things we can't discuss. But I told him to find someone else (a guy) to talk about this with instead of me.

 

Could someone please explain the psychology of this to me?

 

Just re-reading this, and it really is ridiculous. Read the description of the "ground rules" for the revenge affair. Sounds so sterile. Of course he would use protection, maybe even have some medical professionals on hand to oversee it.

 

Truth is, if he wanted revenge, he wouldn't say a word, he'd just go out and do it, to truly even the score he'd have to find one of your friends to have a six-month affair with behind your back, then tell you he didn't regret it one bit and a few months later tell you that he just can't get other woman out of his head, he still thinks so fondly of her.

 

I thought a tiny bit about having a revenge affair, it didn't appeal to me at all. If I were going to have a revenge affair, I certainly wouldn't have told her about it, I'd let her stumble on it, maybe deny it for awhile, let her find all the secret communications and messages of love. I had absolutely no desire to do it, though. If he was a virgin when he married you, maybe that is playing with his head, too, I didn't realize that when I posted last. The kind of sterile sex you're proposing for him to have with all those ground rules in place - well I can pretty much guarantee him it will be the least satisfying sex of his life, not like all that good affair sex you had.

 

When you're in the middle of the reconciliation, when you're still riding the rollercoaster, like both of you are now, there is a lot of what I refer to for lack of a better word as "primal" emotions going on. You have your own demons to deal with. He wants some payback, that's why he brings it up. I didn't realize it while I was in the middle of it, but in hindsight I think it used to bother me whenever I felt like my wife was getting too complacent. Doing nothing wrong but being a bit too happy with the way things were. That's when I would find a way to let her know I still wasn't over it, she still was on "double secret probation" (never used that word with her, but I let her know she still wasn't trusted and I still considered her a liar). It wasn't a conscious decision to do this on my part, but in hindsight that's what I think happened.

 

When I did that, I guess about every month or so through the first year and a half, my wife never fought back, always just apologized for what she had done and promised she would make it up to me for the rest of my life. I guess after awhile I felt like I had extracted my pound of flesh and didn't feel the need to lash out at her or remind her of it any more, and I've been good since then. I can't pinpoint a date or time, it just kind of happened, and it wasn't a conscious decision.

 

Of course he's throwing it in your face. He may not consciously realize it, but he's testing you and your reactions. Hopefully this happens infrequently, and less and less over time. My advice is to stay the course. Stop bringing it up with him. If he brings it up, just let him vent. Let him know you don't like the idea of it but you know you can't stop him and it's his choice if he wants to do that (YOU have choices too, one of which might be to stop putting up with his lashing out, but I wouldn't bring that up with him at this point, keep it to yourself until you've really reach the point when you've had enough of it).

 

Try not to have "discussions" about it, just let him vent it and apologize for the hurt you've caused. Maybe you don't have it in you to put up with his occasional outbursts, which is OK, and I understand, but if my wife didn't put up with it, I probably would have just called it quits. That's the place I was in mentally, I knew I occasionally dishing it out, and I wasn't willing to put up with any pushing back on her part. To give you some idea to compare your situation to, this happened with me I guess about once a month or so, and only lasted about 15 minutes. I felt better for lashing out for about 15 minutes afterward, then felt lousy for even bringing it up, because it solved nothing, it didn't take away anything she had done.

 

You should be seeing some lessening of the frequency and intensity of his need to hurt you back over time. It should be diminishing. Keep in mind there are a lot of times - A LOT - in between his lashing out that he is thinking about it and feeling hurt by it when he is just keeping it to himself because it serves no purpose to talk about it constantly.

 

Two biggest things in getting over it in my opinion were the passage of time and her not doing anything to make me doubt her again.

[snappytomcat]

I asked for a freebee too,when I first found out about husbands A,of course he said absolutely not,and I would have never done it,i was just angry,and hurt,that I thought if I could sleep with someone else,he would know how I feel,but then what?it would have made things 200% worse

[thummper]

If he had the affair, how did he have the moxie to say "absolutely not" to your spurious request to have a freebee? He was damn lucky you didn't kick his a$$ out and divorce him. Guy's got a lotta nerve, I'll give him that. And good for you not giving in to the temptation to give him some of his own medicine. That speaks well for your morals and your idea of what a marriage should (and shouldn't) be. I hope all is going well for you.

[snappytomcat]

If he had the affair, how did he have the moxie to say "absolutely not" to your spurious request to have a freebee? He was damn lucky you didn't kick his a$$ out and divorce him. Guy's got a lotta nerve, I'll give him that. And good for you not giving in to the temptation to give him some of his own medicine. That speaks well for your morals and your idea of what a marriage should (and shouldn't) be. I hope all is going well for you.

yes he did have a lot of nerve,it really ticked me off at the time,i wanted to kill him,cause right before I asked him if I should have a freebee,he told me that the ow,was always accusing him of cheating on her with his wife,wtf???they both have a lot of nerve,at the time I thought the 2 deserved each other,i even told her she could have him,of course all out of anger

and yes its going good thanks for asking

[thummper]

yes he did have a lot of nerve,it really ticked me off at the time,i wanted to kill him,cause right before I asked him if I should have a freebee,he told me that the ow,was always accusing him of cheating on her with his wife,wtf???they both have a lot of nerve,at the time I thought the 2 deserved each other,i even told her she could have him,of course all out of anger

and yes its going good thanks for asking

 

 

Be well. Be happy. You sound like a terrific lady, and he should be grateful as hell that you didn't dump him!

[snappytomcat]

Be well. Be happy. You sound like a terrific lady, and he should be grateful as hell that you didn't dump him!

thank you!!!thummper

[thummper]

You're very welcome! (Picture a low bow and tipping of my hat.) lol

[devilish innocent]

I think it hurts because you don't want him planning to be with another woman intimately. It's one thing to imagine the scenario in your mind. The key word there is imagine. When you hear something like that directly from his mouth, it adds a whole other layer of reality to it. You are talking and connecting with him then you hear him say how he wants to share himself with somebody else. I suspect if he actually follows through on it, then things will get even more real, and the pain you experience will become a whole lot worse. It seems like a terrible idea to allow this if you're trying to bring stability to your marriage.

[thummper]

I would be totally floored, flustered, and flabbergasted if CM would ever seriously consider having any kind of sexual relationship with another woman. I think his love for CD is deep and lasting, and he knows only too well the pain infidelity can bring. I don't for a minute believe he'd EVER do that to her! He might be unset and angry and say some hurtful things at times, but I think he knows how precious and fragile their relationship is. I don't think he'd do anything that would cause her heartache or anguish. Stay strong, CM. She was lost, but she found you again. The dancer needs you and your love!

[road]

 

 

I have to disagree. He could hire a pro. He could take CD to a swingers event. There are lots of ways he could cash in his freebie.

 

 

 

 

 

I have to disagree. How is a BH suppose to get an ego boost, feel desirable by other women. When he has to pay for it. That is not much of a free hall pass.

 

 

What are you using for thinking? Swingers event?

 

 

There will be guy's lined up to do his WW. And his WW will have to reciprocate because he will be doing some other guy's wife.

 

 

Even if a WW partakes once the BH will not of evened the score with this one time hookup.

[road]

Oldshirt, H asked for it. It was non-negotiatiable as a condition of reconciliation. I am not pushing anything on him to try to alleviate anything. As one of the previous posters mentioned, we were both virgins getting married. I feel like he should be able to experience sex with someone else if he wants to. But that doesn't mean I want him to.

 

 

 

 

CD, you need to take back the free pass. It will never make your BH even.

 

 

CD, how many times did you go out on dates with your OM and how many different things and the number of times that you did them with your OM?

 

 

CD, how is your BH having one date with another woman make things even?

Edited February 1, 2014 by road

[janedoe67]

I don't see CM having an A and using the old "she did it first" to justify it because he seems like he has too much character for that.

[thummper]

It'll never happen. I've never understood "swinging." How can a husband or wife stand to watch another man or woman f***ing with their life partner? I don't believe either CM or CD could ever stoop low enough to take a step like this. Their marriage would explode at that point with no hope of any kind of reconciliation. I have enough faith based on what I've read in their posts to believe that they will conquer this in the end without having to resort to some kind of get-even screwing. What on earth would that solve?