Why does it hurt so much to talk to H about his freebee?

[thummper]

Snappy, forgive the thread jack for just a moment, but my curiosity is killing me. You're obviously a level-headed, loyal, and, most likely, a very attractive woman. Why are you referring to yourself as a "tomcat?" lol Probably a good story behind that, huh? Now, back to the original thread.

[snappytomcat]

Snappy, forgive the thread jack for just a moment, but my curiosity is killing me. You're obviously a level-headed, loyal, and, most likely, a very attractive woman. Why are you referring to yourself as a "tomcat?" lol Probably a good story behind that, huh? Now, back to the original thread.

thank you thumper,u are so sweet,my cats name is snappy tom

[AlwaysGrowing]

Oldshirt, H asked for it. It was non-negotiatiable as a condition of reconciliation. I am not pushing anything on him to try to alleviate anything. As one of the previous posters mentioned, we were both virgins getting married. I feel like he should be able to experience sex with someone else if he wants to. But that doesn't mean I want him to.

 

H would not have difficulty finding someone. He is a musician and regularly gets hit on. One of his angers after the affair was that he HAS turned down many people over the years and considered it a badge of honor.

 

That said, it is true that he is not the kind of guy to just go out and have casual sex. It is something fairly foreign from his perspective.

 

 

I have never seen a "hall pass" be a non-negotiable condition of a healthy R agreement.

 

Believe it or not, all because you once willing chose to wear the unhealthy WS hat badge, does not mean that it HAS to be a part of who you are forever.

 

You know better now, it is perfectly fine to expect others as well. Actually living your new found enlightenment of self, should always be the goal. Do not let anyone...even your spouse derail your destination.

[oldshirt]

I have never seen a "hall pass" be a non-negotiable condition of a healthy R agreement.

.

 

 

 

I agree (and this is coming from the swinger LOL)

 

 

 

 

I have not heard Compulsive Musician weigh in on this thread. I would be interested in hearing his side of this and whether he still sees this as part of the reconciliation process or not.

 

 

People think, feel and say a lot of different things in the days following DDay. I'm curious whether he ever really saw it as part of the R process (and if so if he still feels that way) or whether this is still part of the open marriage discussions that were taking place before the affair.

 

 

Wanting to experiment with open marriage I understand. Demanding a tit-for-tat hallpass in response to an affair I do not.

 

 

It would neither soothe CM's pain of the affair nor CD's guilt of the affair. It would just been an extra helping of disappointment and pain for both.

[oldshirt]

 

 

. I've never understood "swinging." How can a husband or wife stand to watch another man or woman f***ing with their life partner? I don't believe either CM or CD could ever stoop low enough to take a step like this. Their marriage would explode at that point with no hope of any kind of reconciliation. I have enough faith based on what I've read in their posts to believe that they will conquer this in the end without having to resort to some kind of get-even screwing. What on earth would that solve?

 

 

My views on swinging are 180 degree polar opposite of your's but I do agree 100% that this whole hallpass thing needs to be put to rest for good.

 

 

If they completely reconcile and all is good in 5 years and they want to reopen discussions on swinging/open marriage etc then, then that can be another forum thread and another discussion at that time.

 

 

Untill then, it just needs to smashed down and put to rest.

[BetrayedH]

I think that intellectually you think he deserves to have sex with another person and that if it is a one-time, non-emotional situation that "doesn't mean anything" then it's ok. The problem when discussing it is that you're forced to acknowledge that it does mean something.

[Zenstudent]

I could have been the one to suggest swinging, we talked a lot about that up to 12 months past d-day. I've learned something from reading the replies to this suggestion, thanks.

 

One thing I've been a bit suprised to read from the posts is, that so many of you posters seem to believe that using a hall pass has something to do with punishment. Does this mean that you think that the original affair was about punishment as well?

 

I think it was Mickey F that mentioned the validation element in it. I would take that into consideration and agree with him, that CM may get some satisfaction from the experience that CD actually cares about this and gets hurt by it. Same thing with CD, feeling the anxiety and pain when discussing this, may be telling her something about her love for CM.

 

I used my hall pass about 6 months past d-day on her suggestion, it had nothing to do with revenge or punishment, absolutely nothing. I realized that I had absolutely no influence on whether she would/will cheat again, and that I couldn't trust her not to. We discussed open marriage since she spend a lot of energy to convince me that she had plenty of love for both me and OM, so that nothing was taken away from me. I also had severe self estemm issues, I thought the infidelity was all about me not being good enough, and that I would never be able to find another woman who would find me attractive - I'm suspecting my wife thought the same. Turned out we were both very much wrong.

 

The discussion about open relationships and her belief that there would be enough love for everybody ended emediatly after I used the pass. Just like that. She just couldn't stand the thought of me with someone else, she felt threatened and got a taste of the emotions I had to proces.

 

I won't say that we're home safe or that everything is perfect harmony, absolutely not, I'm still not safe, and know that no guarantees are given, but at least we're on the same page knowing how it feels to share your partner.

 

I won't recommend hall pass or advice against it either, but I think that your discussions about this may have a lot more to do with validation than anything else.

[Fluttershy]

I agree zen I think a freebie is different in nature to a RA. In most cases an RA is to punish. But no first affairs are nt alway while I would

Say RA's are mostly. But a freebie is not the same as sneeking and lying and t is with permission. Not at all the same

But

If CM knows it hurts her but instead of doing it wants to

Hold it over CD's head without an expirey to make her squirm or wonder or whatnot, id say he is using it not as intended (for him to lose his one woman label) but to punish.

[Zenstudent]

When you put it this way; I would agree that a time limit would be reasonable for both parties, yes.

[road]

I could have been the one to suggest swinging, we talked a lot about that up to 12 months past d-day. I've learned something from reading the replies to this suggestion, thanks.

 

One thing I've been a bit suprised to read from the posts is, that so many of you posters seem to believe that using a hall pass has something to do with punishment. Does this mean that you think that the original affair was about punishment as well?

 

I think it was Mickey F that mentioned the validation element in it. I would take that into consideration and agree with him, that CM may get some satisfaction from the experience that CD actually cares about this and gets hurt by it. Same thing with CD, feeling the anxiety and pain when discussing this, may be telling her something about her love for CM.

 

I used my hall pass about 6 months past d-day on her suggestion, it had nothing to do with revenge or punishment, absolutely nothing. I realized that I had absolutely no influence on whether she would/will cheat again, and that I couldn't trust her not to. We discussed open marriage since she spend a lot of energy to convince me that she had plenty of love for both me and OM, so that nothing was taken away from me. I also had severe self estemm issues, I thought the infidelity was all about me not being good enough, and that I would never be able to find another woman who would find me attractive - I'm suspecting my wife thought the same. Turned out we were both very much wrong.

 

The discussion about open relationships and her belief that there would be enough love for everybody ended emediatly after I used the pass. Just like that. She just couldn't stand the thought of me with someone else, she felt threatened and got a taste of the emotions I had to proces.

 

I won't say that we're home safe or that everything is perfect harmony, absolutely not, I'm still not safe, and know that no guarantees are given, but at least we're on the same page knowing how it feels to share your partner.

 

I won't recommend hall pass or advice against it either, but I think that your discussions about this may have a lot more to do with validation than anything else.

 

 

 

How long was your WW affair?

 

 

How many times did WW meet up with the OM?

 

 

How many times did you use your hall pass?

 

 

Did you get to do all the things with your AP that your WW did with the OM, and do them the same number of times as your WW?

 

 

Was your AP better looking then your WW?

[road]

I agree zen I think a freebie is different in nature to a RA. In most cases an RA is to punish. But no first affairs are nt alway while I would

Say RA's are mostly. But a freebie is not the same as sneeking and lying and t is with permission. Not at all the same

But

If CM knows it hurts her but instead of doing it wants to

Hold it over CD's head without an expirey to make her squirm or wonder or whatnot, id say he is using it not as intended (for him to lose his one woman label) but to punish.

 

When you put it this way; I would agree that a time limit would be reasonable for both parties, yes.

 

 

 

Expiration date?

 

 

You realize that a BS can say I want a divorce because of the affair 20 years after the affair ended?

 

 

You realize that it is much easier for a woman to find an AP then it is for a man?

 

 

WW: sorry BH you had six months to have your ONS. Not my fault you can not get any side action. I gave you the chance. The offer is now off the table.

 

 

Then how good is a BH suppose to feel when he gets his ONS and he only makes it with woman that is a 2, 3 on her best day, no where half attractive as his WW, it was over in ten minutes, and his WW was banging her OM every chance she could for hours at a time for the last 2 years?

[janedoe67]

Expiration date?

 

 

You realize that a BS can say I want a divorce because of the affair 20 years after the affair ended?

 

 

You realize that it is much easier for a woman to find an AP then it is for a man?

 

 

WW: sorry BH you had six months to have your ONS. Not my fault you can not get any side action. I gave you the chance. The offer is now off the table.

 

 

Then how good is a BH suppose to feel when he gets his ONS and he only makes it with woman that is a 2, 3 on her best day, no where half attractive as his WW, it was over in ten minutes, and his WW was banging her OM every chance she could for hours at a time for the last 2 years?

 

So according to you the punishment can last as long and as many times as the BH wants. Once a woman cheats, all bets are off and she should live life in limbo forever.

 

Nice

 

What kind of woman stays with men like this????

[janedoe67]

How long was your WW affair?

 

 

How many times did WW meet up with the OM?

 

 

How many times did you use your hall pass?

 

 

Did you get to do all the things with your AP that your WW did with the OM, and do them the same number of times as your WW?

 

 

Was your AP better looking then your WW?

 

And what is up with this? Does Harley subscribe to this kind of scorekeeping???

 

On what page of Surviving An Affair do you find THIS approach?

[compulsivedancer]

I agree zen I think a freebie is different in nature to a RA. In most cases an RA is to punish. But no first affairs are nt alway while I would

Say RA's are mostly. But a freebie is not the same as sneeking and lying and t is with permission. Not at all the same

But

If CM knows it hurts her but instead of doing it wants to

Hold it over CD's head without an expirey to make her squirm or wonder or whatnot, id say he is using it not as intended (for him to lose his one woman label) but to punish.

 

I don't think he is intending to punish me. I think he genuinely thinks he needs to experience sex with someone else. But because of the emotions involved, it comes across as bitter to me.

 

He is waiting not to hold it over my head, but because he doesn't want to do it out of anger and risk turning into an RA or doing something he would regret. He wants to do it out of a need to understand and experience.

 

I understand his reasoning. I even agree. But it doesn't make the feelings any nicer.

[xAkulax]

Nothing good can come form this If i where you I would retract the hall pass now

[Zenstudent]

I don't quite see the relevance?

How long was your WW affair?

9 months

How many times did WW meet up with the OM?

Once or twice a week

How many times did you use your hall pass?

Twice

Did you get to do all the things with your AP that your WW did with the OM, and do them the same number of times as your WW?

I did what I wanted to do

Was your AP better looking then your WW?

Different

 

 

Expiration date?

 

You realize that a BS can say I want a divorce because of the affair 20 years after the affair ended?

Yes, both partners can do that, what's your point?

 

You realize that it is much easier for a woman to find an AP then it is for a man?

Projection, depends on the situation, I think. And so what, if it takes the male two days more to find his extramarital partner?

 

WW: sorry BH you had six months to have your ONS. Not my fault you can not get any side action. I gave you the chance. The offer is now off the table.

Yes... If anyone actually go through with this, I think there should be a negotiation of the terms beforehand.

 

Then how good is a BH suppose to feel when he gets his ONS and he only makes it with woman that is a 2, 3 on her best day, no where half attractive as his WW, it was over in ten minutes, and his WW was banging her OM every chance she could for hours at a time for the last 2 years?

This doesn't have to be the case. And if you insist it should be an eye for an eye, I guess the couple would negotiate that. I wouldn't insist on an eye-for-an-eye policy.

Road, I think you miss the point, my point at least. The pass isn't a race, competition or some kind of a get-even tool. And like I also said, not every couple has to agree on something like this, and it's obviously not for everyone, and maybe not for CD and CM either.

[janedoe67]

Same kind who can treat their spouses like this I guess? People stay with people who are bad for them for all sorts of wacky reasons.

 

That is true. I'm not sure I could stay with someone who actually cheated on me. Given my own history I would likely try to do so. However, if I couldn't, I would leave. I would not stay and punish. That is just as lacking in character as cheating. Because both are dishonest, both hurt, and both display thinking only of self.

[Zenstudent]

I don't think he is intending to punish me. I think he genuinely thinks he needs to experience sex with someone else. But because of the emotions involved, it comes across as bitter to me.

 

He is waiting not to hold it over my head, but because he doesn't want to do it out of anger and risk turning into an RA or doing something he would regret. He wants to do it out of a need to understand and experience.

 

I understand his reasoning. I even agree. But it doesn't make the feelings any nicer.

Of course the feelings aren't all nice, unless you either don't love him or don't have any fear in your heart. You're human like everyone else. I feel for you being in this situation, I think most betrayed spouses do - we know this feeling all too well.

 

If I were you, knowing what I do today, I would get this ghost out in the open, discuss it, deal with it and then close the case. Hall pass or not, the two of you decide. If it's still a possibility, I would be very clear and specific about the purpose of it, the ruleset and terms - and definitely put a time frame on it, so it won't be there to cloud your relationship for the rest of your days together.

 

Be carefull and take care of each other.

[xxoo]

What I see are bad feelings, and not being 100% satisfied in the marriage. On both sides.

 

That's understandable. But I don't think you can put a time limit on when those feelings should end, and people should get over it.

 

I do think you can put a time limit on how long you will stay, if he doesn't get over it.

 

I suspect that, if he got to the point where he really wanted to, first priority, BE in this marriage and nurture it/his wife, all this talk about hall pass would disappear. The elephant in the room is that he doesn't actually feel that way (with good reason).

[road]

So according to you the punishment can last as long and as many times as the BH wants. Once a woman cheats, all bets are off and she should live life in limbo forever.

 

Nice

 

What kind of woman stays with men like this????

 

 

 

 

 

How do you come up with this from what I wrote?

[road]

And what is up with this? Does Harley subscribe to this kind of scorekeeping???

 

On what page of Surviving An Affair do you find THIS approach?

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing to do with score keeping. I want to hear how people defend a hall pass. How does a BS fix things by getting to have a ONS? When their WS had an affair?

[road]

I don't quite see the relevance?

 

 

 

 

Road, I think you miss the point, my point at least. The pass isn't a race, competition or some kind of a get-even tool. And like I also said, not every couple has to agree on something like this, and it's obviously not for everyone, and maybe not for CD and CM either.

 

 

 

 

 

You miss the point from that the WS never got a hall pass but did what they wanted for how long they wanted without the BS knowing.

 

 

That for the WS to now give the BS a hall pass is not the same. The BS is not getting to carry on an affair without his WS blessings.

 

 

Even if a WW gives her husband forever to find an attractive younger woman and then have a FWB relationship as long as her affair. This will not repair anything. It will not make things even.

 

 

Then what to do with a BH whose self esteem is in the toilet post D day. That was never a chick magnet when young and single. How is a hall pass going to help him when he can not get his hall pass validated?

 

 

That is going to help his self esteem.

 

 

Those that advocate RA's or Hall Passes only advocate more problems.

[lollipopspot]

I don't think he is intending to punish me. I think he genuinely thinks he needs to experience sex with someone else.

 

That sounds like he would have that thought regardless of if you had an affair.

 

That's a big danger sign no matter what your relationship is like.

 

You were discussing open relationships before the affair even happened, right?

 

People who have the feeling that they "need" to experience something...usually do try to experience that thing.

[compulsivedancer]

That sounds like he would have that thought regardless of if you had an affair.

 

That's a big danger sign no matter what your relationship is like.

 

You were discussing open relationships before the affair even happened, right?

 

People who have the feeling that they "need" to experience something...usually do try to experience that thing.

 

I was always more interested in the open relationship than he was.

 

Before the A, he was only mildly interested in sleeping with someone else. He considered what we had special, in large part because we had only been with each other. Now that that has changed, it has changed.

 

He loves me and he loves sex with me, but he would like to have the opportunity to experience sex with someone else.

[lollipopspot]

I was always more interested in the open relationship than he was.

 

Before the A, he was only mildly interested in sleeping with someone else. He considered what we had special, in large part because we had only been with each other. Now that that has changed, it has changed.

 

He loves me and he loves sex with me, but he would like to have the opportunity to experience sex with someone else.

 

And now you feel like a hypocrite because you slept with someone else, but don't want him to at this point? (Not saying that the situation is that simple, but that might be how you're feeling).