Do we put too much credence on "milestones"?

[Shepp]

I have 3 month old twin boys, for those who haven't read my previous threads

 

Last week we we're given a real scare by Ronnie having a seizure. People ask you what's the scariest moment of your life - that's mine, right there.

At the hospital they did like test after test on him and they all came back normal. Basically we we're left with an 'unexplained seizure', apparently they're actually not that uncommon in infants. The doctor we spoke to was pretty optimistic about his chances of never having another seizure in his life, and hence there's no need for meds or anything at the moment. Obviously there is a chance he could have another & there's a chance we could potentially be looking at a form of epilepsy (although even if this was to happen he would still have a chance of outgrowing it) or if he has another one down the road a bit it could just be a case that his body is just more predisposed to fitting than average in times of stress - like if he's ill or hurt.

We're told the most likely thing at the moment is its to do with him being a premature twin - Ron was much much smaller than Fraser when they we're born, he had to stay in the hospital longer, he couldn't breath by himself at first, the most likely cause as he's still so young is simply something isn't quite linked up in his brain yet and it'll straighten out as he gets older.

 

But nevertheless It was scary, to see your baby like that and not be able to do anything but the docs are positive so we're pretty good now

 

 

But what got me thinking was while he was in hospital they did tests on his developmental milestones - in order to check everything was alright and there were no other problems.

In terms of physical milestones he was perfect, above them if anything (but we kinda knew that already cause he always matched Fraser & they've both got good coordination, Ron especially he'll give you little high fives & they've both been swimming twice now) but apparently he was behind on his 'vocal milestones'....I didn't even realise this was an actual thing, I just thought he was quiet compared to the wall of noise that is Fraser.

Anyway they we're saying like, its not really a big deal there's nothing wrong with him, it wasn't anything like enough to suggest brain damage or anything serious, just that he was premature and he'll catch up in time.

 

And I know that's totally true, I'm not worried, he's small, thinner than Fraser (not that they look anything alike anyway) but there's steel in those eyes!! He's been a fighter since he was born. There's too much fire in that boy - he'll be totally fine!

 

But it got me thinking because my girlfriend was reading leaflets she got and googling and whatever and telling me that we had to start making different noises around him like clicking and whistling and stuff...........I feel like...babies all develop at different rates (my best mate, he walked early and talked late, 20 years on you can't shut him up and he's a lazy bugger). I feel like there's not much point to all these "milestones" - not unless you take them with a pinch of salt. I think it puts a lot of pressure on babies and parents!

 

My girlfriends a top mum, those boys could not have better, she doesn't need to stress about clicking more, or not clicking enough, that's ridiculous.

 

There's websites that like break down milestones week by week - but all it is a load of averages - show me any baby that develops exactly like that.

I don't think its useless full stop but I personally think it should be much more border/flexible: 0-6mnths, 7mnths-1yr, 2yr, 3yr, than month by month or week by week (because of course if your child isn't walking by 2 that's concerning - but I don't think being as structured as they seem to be is good either). I don't feel there a bad thing particularly and its good there'll keep an eye on how he's developing so we can help him out if needs be but I don't think they should be stressed about.

I care about my kids reaching there goals as much as the next guy - be it talking, walking, getting there dream job or becoming the world MTB freestyle champion but everyone takes a different path to achieving there goal and the way I see it, you support your kids, love them, help them where you can and just take every journey a day at a time.

 

Dunno, whats the feeling out there? Do you think they're a good tool? Or a bit OTT? Did you worry about them when you had/have babies?

Edited February 3, 2014 by Shepp

[KathyM]

I have twin boys also. I wouldn't recommend going overboard with the "clicking", etc., but do interact with them, talk to them, read to them, play them music and sing to them, give them new experiences, teach them about the world. I think talking to them and reading to them gives them earlier verbal skills. My niece did not talk much until well into her 2s. She is a talented and intelligent woman with a college degree, and monopolizes the conversation when out with people, so I wouldn't worry about it at this point. But do talk to and read to your kids whenever you can. It does promote early language development.

[Bittersweetie]

I have a 17 month old. He was born a month early and spent time in NICU. He also had a couple of minor surgeries before the age of six months, which meant we couldn't put him on his tummy. At 9 months he wasn't even rolling over. We were a little concerned so we started PT with him. His gross motor skills were delayed, but doing the PT helped a ton.

 

However, it is difficult if one chooses to compare. I live in an area which is like "my 10 month old speaks three languages" so here I was at the play groups with the only kid that didn't roll/sit up/crawl/walk/etc. It can be hard when your kid is "supposed" to be doing something but isn't, like that is somehow a reflection of you.

 

We just accepted that because of his early birth, he was on his own schedule. We did have him evaluated by our local early child intervention services, which should be free, and may be something to think about when your boys turn a year. It's been really helpful for us, providing the PT and now a little bit of speech therapy. It also quieted any fears we had regarding delays in other areas...they told us he was fine.

 

It seems like you're chill with the way your boys are growing, but your girlfriend may feel a bit of pressure from seeing other kids growing "on schedule" and it can be a hit on your motherhood confidence if you choose to let it. I guess the advice I have is to try to let that thing go, and support your boys the best you can.

 

I hope this helps, good luck!

[pie2]

Dunno, whats the feeling out there? Do you think they're a good tool? Or a bit OTT? Did you worry about them when you had/have babies?

 

 

 

Shepp, first off, both you and your wife seem like amazing parents, and are both providing for your kids in different ways, though obviously you seem a little more hands-off when it comes to milestones.

 

 

And I agree with you, in some respects. We can get a bit obsessive about children who aren't developing the exact way they're expected to. Every child is different, each child works on different areas of development at different rates. Of course, like you said, if there's a significant delay, then it might be worthwhile to take some action.

 

 

That being said, I don't think there's any harm in stimulating your boys. Their brains are in such a crucial period (age 0-3 y/o), and any stimulation will be of benefit. Like KathyM said, make sure you read to Ron, talk to him, and NO TV. No need to start worrying, but it would do no good to have a daily routine that stunts his growth, either.

 

 

How premature were your twins? Don't forget to consider their adjusted ages.

[Shepp]

I have twin boys also. I wouldn't recommend going overboard with the "clicking", etc., but do interact with them, talk to them, read to them, play them music and sing to them, give them new experiences, teach them about the world. I think talking to them and reading to them gives them earlier verbal skills.

Ah totally - I totally don't mean not doing those things, I think its totally great to teach your kids as much as possible.

I guess the way I look at it, you help them, you support them, and you expose them to as much as possible and there'll pick it up in there own time.

But totally - books are like my gf's great love, she's always like reading me passages I don't really*understand from like these dusty old books, and literally coming in from work to hear her reading 'noisy farm' or whatever so enthusiastically to the boys is one of my favourite things each day

My niece did not talk much until well into her 2s. She is a talented and intelligent woman with a college degree, and monopolizes the conversation when out with people, so I wouldn't worry about it at this point.

 

 

I have a 17 month old. He was born a month early and spent time in NICU...His gross motor skills were delayed, but doing the PT helped a ton.

Yeah? Is he doing okay now?

However, it is difficult if one chooses to compare...It can be hard when your kid is "supposed" to be doing something but isn't, like that is somehow a reflection of you.

Totally, of course - we live in a pretty small village so its not quite like that but there is naturally always the direct comparison to Fraser.

I try not to make that comparison - its like I was saying to my girlfriend: there different boys, and there'll be different men, but there'll both be okay, just different and we wouldn't want them any other way.

They're chalk and cheese to look at and in personality, but equally gorgeous and equally special.

It's been really helpful for us, providing the PT and now a little bit of speech therapy. It also quieted any fears we had regarding delays in other areas...they told us he was fine.

That's great!

If Ron was to need anything down the line, he'll get it, no question.

It seems like you're chill with the way your boys are growing, but your girlfriend may feel a bit of pressure from seeing other kids growing "on schedule" and it can be a hit on your motherhood confidence if you choose to let it

Yeah, well I'm confident in the boys. And i know that we'll get them to wherever they need to or want to be in life, for me the scary things are the things I can't help them with, like when he had his fit and it was just out of my hands.

But I do understand, I understand why it stresses my girlfriend, It doesn't come as a surprise to me because I know her well enough to know she's all bark and underneath her self confidence is lower than most.

She'll be fine, we've got each other but i can see its a lot of pressure to put on new mums.

 

 

Shepp, first off, both you and your wife seem like amazing parents, and are both providing for your kids in different ways, though obviously you seem a little more hands-off when it comes to milestones.

Thank you

It's not that I'm hands off with them reaching there milestones - I do loads with them it's just the milestones time frame isn't something I stress about - I know they'll achieve everything on there own unique schedule.

And I agree with you, in some respects. We can get a bit obsessive about children who aren't developing the exact way they're expected to. Every child is different, each child works on different areas of development at different rates. Of course, like you said, if there's a significant delay, then it might be worthwhile to take some action.

Totally

That being said, I don't think there's any harm in stimulating your boys...No need to start worrying, but it would do no good to have a daily routine that stunts his growth, either.

Of course, goes without saying!

We do as much with the boys as possible everyday - putting kids in front of the TV just isn't something we'd do, I like them to be outside as much as possible or at least active, to puching, seeing, learning.

Like I say in his motor skills Ron was above above average - he can give you a high five, he turns his head to look when he hears me or my gf or Frayz, he smiles lots.

How premature were your twins? Don't forget to consider their adjusted ages.

Just over 5 weeks.

If you adjusted their age accordingly then Ronnie would probably be back to on schedule but Fraser would be very advanced, so it's out either way really - though like I say Fraser was much bigger when they were born.

[Tayla]

Shepp, Sorry to here of this recent medical concern.

 

Most have given valid relief to your inquiry. So I'll add one that helped in another way.....There is a book called "Leo the late Bloomer". My Doctor recommended it for my second son. Seems he was delayed in many skills according to a "standard chart of growth". That Book eased my motherly worries, and as true as the book says...Leo simply grew in his own way and roared quiet well

Leo was a Lion btw , not my son

 

You'll always have valid concerns for your children..its natural! You'll know them better then any doctor at times, so keep your heart open and your mind alert.

 

Actually TV ( given the nature of the program) does help small children...the tones of voices or colors on the screens are important to stimulating the child.

Your Twins will actually have a language of their own, its rather intriguing..

Blessings to you during these years, they are endearing!

[pie2]

Actually TV ( given the nature of the program) does help small children...the tones of voices or colors on the screens are important to stimulating the child.

Your Twins will actually have a language of their own, its rather intriguing..

Blessings to you during these years, they are endearing!

 

 

There's a ton of conflicting information out there about TV. But the latest research has led to a definitive statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics: No TV time for children under age two. TV is actually especially inhibitive in expressive language, as it doesn't really demand interaction the way a real-life scenario would (ie to get a reaction, I must produce a sound).

 

 

In fact, any screen time is generally not recommended (Ipads, phones, etc). It really limits a child's interaction (play) with the world.

 

 

How TV Affects Your Child

 

 

It's Official: To Protect Baby's Brain, Turn Off TV - Wired Science

[Shepp]

Shepp, Sorry to here of this recent medical concern.

Thank you!

He's always been a fairly quiet baby but the important thing is that he's healthy.

If he doesn't catch up by himself we can help him and he'll get there, but the fit was definitely the scary thing because that I couldn't help him with.

 

Most have given valid relief to your inquiry. So I'll add one that helped in another way.....There is a book called "Leo the late Bloomer". My Doctor recommended it for my second son. Seems he was delayed in many skills according to a "standard chart of growth". That Book eased my motherly worries, and as true as the book says...Leo simply grew in his own way and roared quiet well

Leo was a Lion btw , not my son

Thanks, i'll look it up!

I really like the bolded - that's what I think, some babies just take the world on by there own schedule.

 

You'll always have valid concerns for your children..its natural! You'll know them better then any doctor at times, so keep your heart open and your mind alert.

Yeah, I agree. Doctors totally have there place and so do all these tests, I take my hat off to what they can do, we probably wouldn't even have the boys today if it wasn't for what they can do.

But what I was saying to my gf was, of course listen to what they say (including the positive, because its mostly positive, and she tends to dwell on worst case scenario) and they're advice but equally I have a lot of faith in my son, like I say, tests are great but I do believe the steel in his eyes counts for something too. He's always been a fighter, he won't stop now.

 

Your Twins will actually have a language of their own, its rather intriguing..

Totally - its cool how they interact now and that'll only get better

Part of me thinks Ron's the smart one - he just lets Fraser wear himself out with most of the screaming and reaps the same reward

 

Blessings to you during these years, they are endearing!

Thank you Yeah they are totally gorgeous!

[Shepp]

It really limits a child's interaction (play) with the world.

I do, personally, agree - I think young kids should be active, playing, outdoors...

Although there's a place for technology as kids get older I, personally, don't like seeing even 5 or 6 year olds spending significant time wrapped up in that world -- mostly because that's just not the way that I was brought up.

 

 

But on a broader, more general level, this is what I mean about credence on milestones, like Ron - he smiles lots, he laughs easily (he actually laughed for the first time 2 days before Frayz, when I was laughing at my gf cause she opened a packet of M&M's and the bag split and they went EVERYWHERE, and then we hear this little chuckle from Ronnie Now he laughs at lots - even the dog casually walking past cracks him up. ) he just doesn't "babble" much in the way most babies do of that age (though if he hadn't of had the seizure, we weren't that concerned). But despite all the good things he does I feel like the pressure of meeting milestones almost be like a "look back, now what have you done wrong" thing (especially if you look online like my girlfriends done) but in my mind, it doesn't mean the parents have done anything wrong, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the infant - it just means implementing a little more flexibility in terms of timescales.

Fraser and Ronnie have had the same up bringing since birth and since birth Fraser has always been LOUD, and now Fraser babbles and Ronnie will, he's just born to beat to the sound of his own drum.

[Bittersweetie]

Yeah? Is he doing okay now?

 

He's doing great, starting to stand on his own and even taken a few steps. It seems like he was born about the same time early as your boys...he was about 4.5 weeks early. We had to actively think about him as his "adjusted" age...especially with the surgeries since they kind of held him back a little.

 

I'm sorry about the health scare but I'm glad you all are doing well. You sound like great parents, and enjoy the baby time! Though I have to admit I don't miss that phase all that much...I enjoy sleeping.

[Tayla]

There's a ton of conflicting information out there about TV. But the latest research has led to a definitive statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics: No TV time for children under age two. TV is actually especially inhibitive in expressive language, as it doesn't really demand interaction the way a real-life scenario would (ie to get a reaction, I must produce a sound).

 

 

In fact, any screen time is generally not recommended (Ipads, phones, etc). It really limits a child's interaction (play) with the world.

 

 

How TV Affects Your Child

 

 

It's Official: To Protect Baby's Brain, Turn Off TV - Wired Science

 

Thanks for those articles, I politely disagree as I have worked in child development and colors, sounds and movement are an important part of saturating the brain activity. I was in NO WAY saying to push tv shows or to even use it as the "electronic babysitter". I think you mistook my statement.

 

I'm just tickled to hear Shepp speak proudly of his children and care so much about their overall development. Not to mention he adores his childrens' mum!

[HokeyReligions]

I would keep them away from tv and any flashing light games. Do you know what he may have been watching or looking at when he had the seizure?

 

My son's seizures could be triggered even by a brightly colored mobile if light was reflected off it rapidly.

 

I met a couple at the hospital when my son was 10 months old. Their son had 4 - 5 seizures in a year and they still didn't know what it was. Their son's seizures stopped as mysteriously as they started with no ill effects. We used to stay in touch but drifted apart when the kids started school. I got a high school announcement and a college graduation announcement not too long ago so I know he's doing just fine.

[Shepp]

I'm just tickled to hear Shepp speak proudly of his children and care so much about their overall development. Not to mention he adores his childrens' mum!

Ah, well I'm crazy lucky, perfect girl, perfect kids I don't intend to forget that!

[Shepp]

I would keep them away from tv and any flashing light games. Do you know what he may have been watching or looking at when he had the seizure?

My son's seizures could be triggered even by a brightly colored mobile if light was reflected off it rapidly.

Really?

 

I dunno, the doctors asked as that, any idea what could of triggered it but i've stood in that room and looked all around and i just can't think of anything..or i'm too blind to see it!

I wasn't in the room at the time, my girlfriend was putting them down for a nap in their cots, then she was just screaming at me to go in there and i did and he was fitting.

 

The weird thing was the dog was sitting in the room with them and he like hardly ever does that...but thats probably just a coincidence and a case of over thinking that day.

I met a couple at the hospital when my son was 10 months old. Their son had 4 - 5 seizures in a year and they still didn't know what it was. Their son's seizures stopped as mysteriously as they started with no ill effects. We used to stay in touch but drifted apart when the kids started school. I got a high school announcement and a college graduation announcement not too long ago so I know he's doing just fine.

yeah? It's a strange thing the human body, right?

One of the doctors was saying to us, that babies and infants bodies and particularly brains are so much more resilient than adults and that even if something is slightly out of place, it can often sort itself out as they grow up.

[turnera]

Follow the advice of their doctor and, if you feel the doctor isn't caring, take them to a second doctor for a second opinion.

[Shepp]

Follow the advice of their doctor and, if you feel the doctor isn't caring, take them to a second doctor for a second opinion.

 

I cant fault the doctors they were really great, we just have to play a waiting game - I believe it's a case of 10% of kids have a seziure in there'd life but only 1-2% go on to keep having them. If he has another one then we go down the route of EEG an all that.

 

It Just got me thinking about the whole milestone thing - its a lot of pressure to put on such small people

[Ryan_Talon]

Sorry to hear that Shepp! Must of been scary!

 

Dunno, whats the feeling out there? Do you think they're a good tool? Or a bit OTT? Did you worry about them when you had/have babies?

I missed my sons (well step sons) earliest milestones but I do know what you mean......I don't think obsessing over them is any good, but my view is if the knowledge is there its worth knowing!

[Shepp]

Sorry to hear that Shepp! Must of been scary!

 

I missed my sons (well step sons) earliest milestones but I do know what you mean......I don't think obsessing over them is any good, but my view is if the knowledge is there its worth knowing!

 

Thank you.

And yeah, I wouldnt condone withholding that kind of infomation but it is just treating it as an average, which I believe is what it is.