when communication doesn't help?

[rachelstack]

Where do you go when you have used every communication skill available and the other person is simply not interested in changing his ways or compromising?

 

I see no hope left.

[agnf666]

Mind if I ask why you are getting separated/divorced?

[Moose]

Originally posted by rachelstack

Where do you go when you have used every communication skill available and the other person is simply not interested in changing his ways or compromising?

 

I see no hope left.

 

Changing his ways or compromising is the problem. Not the communication. The sooner you learn that you can't change a person, the better off you'll be. You are in no position to demand change or compromise from someone other than yourself.

[Rachelstack]

Originally posted by Moose

Changing his ways or compromising is the problem. Not the communication. The sooner you learn that you can't change a person, the better off you'll be. You are in no position to demand change or compromise from someone other than yourself.

 

In theory, you're right. I agree with you to a large extent even in practicality. But what, really, is the point of communication, then? We always want something when we communicate, at least the other person's understanding, but don't we usually hope that when they understand us better, they will change something in their behavior? "When you ___________, it makes me ___________," is not just because we really want them to know that leaving the toilet seat up in the middle of the night makes me feel like I've got a cold, wet bum and angry, and unloved. Maybe, but we're really hoping that when he understands how it makes me feel, he'll QUIT DOING IT! (And I do think that marriage requires some change and compromise on both parts.)

 

Case in point (he's actually very good about the toilet seat):

 

He set up an e-mail account which he kept very secret from me. When I stumbled on it accidentally, he got mad and defensive, and insisted on deleting things before allowing me to see it. I communicated quite effectively (I think) that this looks pretty bad and I don't have a secret e-mail account hidden from him, and he is free to look at mine any time, etc. He finally told me he got rid of it. I later found out he promptly set up another one. It's now clear he'll keep it.

 

I have, btw, quit demanding a change. I have accepted that he is going to keep secrets, and it has killed a little more trust and put us that much closer to divorce.

 

Case in point 2: He's extremely unpunctual. We are routinely late to church which embarrasses me. When he understands how I feel... his behavior will not change. He has in the past commonly been home late from work by as much as 6 or 7 hours, with no word at all. He knows how that makes me feel-- literally to the point of preparing for the police's arrival, wonderng how I'm going to tell his parents, planning how I'm going to support the children, fear, terror-- but knowing that didn't change his ways.

 

I have also quit demanding change in this area and have changed my ways: I have simply quit caring if he dies on the way home from work, which necessarily means I've quit caring about him. I refuse to put myself through that fear and stress. I know how I will take care of the kids, and I choose to look on the bright side-- if the police show up at the door, I am free to re-marry. This attitude, of course, is not beneficial to marriage and has put us another step closer to divorce. But I refuse to be put through that fear and terror any more, for any reason. Enough is enough.

 

So I guess maybe that's my answer? Ultimately, there are no options left if communication fails? I can't expect change. Therefore I have to change, even if that means being willing to end a 16 year marriage.

[Moose]

We always want something when we communicate, at least the other person's understanding,

 

This is were you need to begin. Instead of seeking something from him, seek understanding for yourself. Try to get him to explain to you why his behavior is this way. Then from there, maybe you can get some insight as to how to deal with it better. Don't go into a discussion with you trying to gain HIS understanding of YOUR feelings, you'll never get anywhere that way. You need to go in and find out why his actions are the way they are. When you tell him, "When you do ___________ it makes me feel _______", you will push him further away from understanding.

 

The reason why is because he sees your complaining and thinks to himself, "Why is it always about her??!!".

 

I have a post in here somewhere where I explain, "The discussion ball". It's a great way for you and him to set down, and have a civil conversation and get EVERYTHING out on the table. It's easy to do, and it works. I'll try to find it and post a link, ( If anyone else knows where it's at, please post the link for me ).

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Moose...

 

Here's something I posted in another thread....maybe this will help next time you want to talk to him about it:

 

"Discussion Ball"

 

1. Set up a day, totally dedicated to discussion time with your significant other.

 

a. Make it during the day.

b. Try to have children, if any, at the sitters and out of ear shot.

c. Have lunch planned ahead of time, delivered if possible.

 

2. Find a ball, stuffed toy, pillow, or anything soft that won't cause damage if thrown. This will be your, "Discussion ball".

 

3. Flip a coin to decide who goes first.

 

a. For first timers, whoever initiates the discussion goes first.

b. Plan for monthly, bi-monthly, or quarterly, "Discussion ball", discussions.

 

4. Whoever goes first, holds the, "Discussion Ball" and therefore holds the table.

 

a. The other person is not allowed to say anything.

b. The other person is not allowed to interrupt.

c. The other person is not allowed to grunt, clear throat, or correct the holder of the, "Discussion Ball".

 

5. Once the, "Discussion Ball", holder is finished making their point, the ball is passed to the other person.

 

a. Responses are allowed a 2 minute rebuttal. (Keep a timer)

b. After rebuttal, responder can bring up a new issue.

 

6. Repeat until both parties feel satisfied with the, "Discussion Ball", discussion.

 

a. Take breaks when neccessary to avoid stress and comments made out of anger.

b. Never allow, "Discussion Ball", discussion go into the evening hours.

c. Each participant is to keep a notebook to write down areas of improvement suggested by their significant other.

 

7. Part from each other for at least 2 hours for personal reflection.

 

a. Keep your notebook with you to write down your thoughts.

b. Write down foreseen problems you may encounter in your area of improvement.

c. Make a plan to knock down obsticales in your way of accomplishing area of improvement.

 

8. Do something unexpected and kind for your significant other.

[Moose]

Thanks ladyjane, you're a big help!! I didn't have time to hunt for it!