Loving my OM and my marital contract

[SugarHibiscus]

The subject is if the OW can truly love MM or vice versa. If MM or MW loved OW/OM, why does he stay in his M? The assumption is that if you stay in your M you clearly love your BS more than your OM.

 

Here was my post...

 

Enough with the generalities. Let's talk about me. I "really love" my OM. Honestly, I do. As a person. As a friend. As a lover. Even though he is my "hidden affair person". BTW...I am worried about him shouting his love for me to anybody that will listen. He's done it before!

 

Am I going to leave my H? No because when we get down to the crux of the matter, marriage is a legal and societal contract. I stay with him because I am obliged by history, circumstance and public pressure. Romantic? No. Realistic? Yes. If there were no outside factors, and the choice was simply between my H and Om, my OM would undoubtedly win.

 

My A hardly stops me from being a good parent. My children are my number one priority. (Why else would I stay with their dad?) I live for them. I am a stay-at-home mother. I am their protector, teacher and champion.

 

Adults have adult lives. We are human. Mommy. Is. A. Person.

Edited February 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redacted off-topic content

[Realist3]

I agree 100%. So often it is said 'if they loved you they would leave'. That is just not the way it works. There are so many other factors at play.

 

What I have learned is that so many OW/OM don't understand is that they are not the end game. Unless they are able to understand that basic fact it will always lead to heartache. They are being used. It really is as simple as that. Some are willing to accept that fact, but the vast majority are not. "This is my life and you fit into it in a certain discreet way." That's it.

[SugarHibiscus]

Scott Thomas- To answer your questions...my answers are in bold.

 

"Okay, I understand that you love your OM and are staying with the H because of the lifestyle he provides. Please answer the following questions:

 

1)Part of that contract also entails sexual and emotional fidelity, not just keeping up appearances at church or dressing up for family parties.

 

 

 

Given. Not sure what your question is…

 

2)Let's assume that we ignore that particular portion if the contract, what about equality and fairness? You've found happiness so shouldn't your husband be allowed a chance at finding happiness. By this logic, why shouldn't your husband be allowed to sleep with one of your attractive friends?

 

You're allowed to do it, why shouldn't he?

 

 

 

He’s already had his dalliances. If he finds someone that makes him happier, so be it. The marital contract exists to weave the fabric that creates a stable society. As an historian, I’m sure you know that the idea of romantic love in a marriage is a relatively new concept.

 

3)I am sure that you're an excellent mother and protector, but a teacher? Inculcating deception into young minds are we?

 

 

I meant teacher in the academic/scholarly sense, not morality. Although, I am both. We all have vices. Is mine deception? Yes and no. There are many different types of deception and I only participate in one. Adultery. Does this negate the fact that I don’t cheat on my taxes or steal from people? I am, in general, a moral person. Hopefully, they will see the good I do. We all mess up our children in our own ways.

 

Won't you agree that the right of living a happy life extends to the both of you? Tit for tat, no? You both take lovers and get your needs met. I've seen people ridicule this concept as they think that it's 'French'. However I think it is fair and an honest way to approach a marriage, though not the ideal. Why isn't an open marriage an option?

 

 

Open marriage has been on the table before. My H would have loved this. He would also like to become swingers. When he first floated the idea (years ago), I was not interested. (Gross and ewww.) Now that I have a lover…maybe. I don’t think he would go for it now. Seeing as I’m sleeping with a friend. Guess we’ll find out on D day?

 

4)Assuming that one say you're caught and the OM decides to leave you, will you lie to your husband and pretend that you love him?

 

 

I’m already pretending I love him. Will I continue? I don’t know. Probably not. I think my affair is partially an exit affair, but I won’t know until the sh*t hits the fan.

 

5) Assuming that the OM throws you under the bus, will you still 'still love' him?

 

 

I THINK I’m prepared to become the horrible seductress that led his innocent self into temptation. I also am prepared for him to say that I smell bad, am stupid, ugly and suck in bed. I’m trying to steel myself for the bus (or train) wheels. Maybe he’ll surprise me, maybe he won’t. I THINK I’ll still love him. If I don't "still love" him at that time, it doesn't negate that I love him right now. I like him for him. We’ll see how he plays CYA. And how I do.

[beach]

Well - when you made that marital contract - did it include cheating?

 

If not, then the contract has already been broken and it's just an illusion that it continues the way the agreement was made.

 

Since it's broken - there's nothing to base the M on.

[woinlove]

I originally posted this on another thread, but we started to get off topic so I'm going to start the discussion here. Hopefully, it's not against LS rules. Let me know if it is! Don't want to get banned.

 

The subject is if the OW can truly love MM or vice versa. If MM or MW loved OW/OM, why does he stay in his M? The assumption is that if you stay in your M you clearly love your BS more than your OM.

 

Here was my post...

 

Enough with the generalities. Let's talk about me. I "really love" my OM. Honestly, I do. As a person. As a friend. As a lover. Even though he is my "hidden affair person". BTW...I am worried about him shouting his love for me to anybody that will listen. He's done it before!

 

Am I going to leave my H? No because when we get down to the crux of the matter, marriage is a legal and societal contract. I stay with him because I am obliged by history, circumstance and public pressure. Romantic? No. Realistic? Yes. If there were no outside factors, and the choice was simply between my H and Om, my OM would undoubtedly win.

 

My A hardly stops me from being a good parent. My children are my number one priority. (Why else would I stay with their dad?) I live for them. I am a stay-at-home mother. I am their protector, teacher and champion.

 

Adults have adult lives. We are human. Mommy. Is. A. Person.

 

I don't see the point of arguing whether others are in love or not. Different people have different capacities for love. Different capacities in many ways, such as what actions go along with their love, different durations - some may be in love right now but a few years later may be a different story.

 

I felt I loved xMM but later came to realize my capacity for love at the time was stunted. He said he loved me, but I came to think his actions were not consistent with the way I wanted to be loved so I ended it.

 

To me being a good parent includes providing them with a loving, safe environment and treating their other parent with respect. Bringing deception and betrayal into their home is really not great for children any way you cut it. If a d-day happens, they will definitely be impacted but they are impacted even before that.

 

My advice for any parent who is leading a double life is to end the duplicity and sort out the situation at home one way or another, whether that is divorce, reconciliation, separation, some other agreement between the two parents, etc. Children will adapt but don't make them sit on your own time-bomb while you are, as you put it, heading to a train wreck. There is always a better path than that if you give them the highest priority.

[SugarHibiscus]

Well - when you made that marital contract - did it include cheating?

 

If not, then the contract has already been broken and it's just an illusion that it continues the way the agreement was made.

 

Since it's broken - there's nothing to base the M on.

 

I made the same marital contract all us married folks did.

 

What about the "for better or worse" clause in the contract. Surely, this is a "worse" part of my life. Isn't he supposed to forgive me, stay with me? Does the "forsaking all others" part trump the "for better or worse"?

[beach]

I made the same marital contract all us married folks did.

 

What about the "for better or worse" clause in the contract. Surely, this is a "worse" part of my life. Isn't he supposed to forgive me, stay with me? Does the "forsaking all others" part trump the "for better or worse"?

 

No, it's not his obligation to stay. You broke the contract.

 

But now you still aren't telling him your truth = so there's no foundation for that marriage.

 

It's built on lies, deception and you've put his health at risk.

 

"Supposed to" is much different than what a person does when truth is revealed.

 

You've disrespected and disregarded him, the M and the vows.

 

Why would he be obligated to forgive anyone who treats him so poorly - especially the person who claimed to love him?

 

Betrayal is an ugly moderator.

[SugarHibiscus]

Technically speaking, he broke the contract as he was the first to have an A. I do agree that betrayal is an ugly moderator.

[woinlove]

I agree 100%. So often it is said 'if they loved you they would leave'. That is just not the way it works. There are so many other factors at play.

 

What I have learned is that so many OW/OM don't understand is that they are not the end game. Unless they are able to understand that basic fact it will always lead to heartache. They are being used. It really is as simple as that. Some are willing to accept that fact, but the vast majority are not. "This is my life and you fit into it in a certain discreet way." That's it.

 

As is clear from so many threads on this forum, many OW/OM want to be the end game and focus on the signs that allow them to think that is what they are while ignoring the signs that contradict that. The fact is when one has feelings of being in love, one is not inclined to think one is either using or being used.

[CrystalCastles]

Technically speaking, he broke the contract as he was the first to have an A. I do agree that betrayal is an ugly moderator.

 

So that somehow excuses you to have an affair?

[SugarHibiscus]

Nope. Doesn't excuse my affair. I was simply responding to the posters statement.

 

People can be so black and white on the issue of infidelity. My original post was to try to explain how I really do love my OM, even though I'm not leaving my husband for him. At least not right now. WS can truly love his/her AP.

[beach]

Usually right and wrong correspond with black and white.

 

If you don't see that as a simple way to decipher things - then it just may be complicated in justifying behavior.

 

When a person just does what's right - there is nothing to justify...not even whether it's black, white, purple or red.

[soundsfamilar]

sugarhibiscus, i totally get it. although… if my MM would leave, so would i. then again, i don't have kids. so i can't comment on what it's like with children in the picture. (MM is more in the state you are in, with a daughter he can't/won't disappoint while she is not quite an adult yet.)

 

i know that i would leave, though, so maybe my M is irretrievably lost and i should leave regardless. i'm in suspension right now. knowing what's "right", for your spouse, for yourself, for your kids, can be a difficult conclusion. it's not black and white, its just not. adult lives can be overwhelming, even for adults.

[PurpleCardigan]

I originally posted this on another thread, but we started to get off topic so I'm going to start the discussion here. Hopefully, it's not against LS rules. Let me know if it is! Don't want to get banned.

 

The subject is if the OW can truly love MM or vice versa. If MM or MW loved OW/OM, why does he stay in his M? The assumption is that if you stay in your M you clearly love your BS more than your OM.

 

Here was my post...

 

Enough with the generalities. Let's talk about me. I "really love" my OM. Honestly, I do. As a person. As a friend. As a lover. Even though he is my "hidden affair person". BTW...I am worried about him shouting his love for me to anybody that will listen. He's done it before!

 

Am I going to leave my H? No because when we get down to the crux of the matter, marriage is a legal and societal contract. I stay with him because I am obliged by history, circumstance and public pressure. Romantic? No. Realistic? Yes. If there were no outside factors, and the choice was simply between my H and Om, my OM would undoubtedly win.

 

My A hardly stops me from being a good parent. My children are my number one priority. (Why else would I stay with their dad?) I live for them. I am a stay-at-home mother. I am their protector, teacher and champion.

 

Adults have adult lives. We are human. Mommy. Is. A. Person.

 

SugarHibiscus,

 

Your post is one of the remaining things that I struggle to understand from my ex. Maybe the situation is different because I am single with no kids and he is married with one child. He pursued me heavily and drip-fed information. It took me awhile to learn he was married, and longer to learn of the child. He was the first to say "I love you" and he constantly talked of our shared future. But he ended it, saying that his child needed an intact family but he loved me, too (like some kind of consolation prize). I only share that brief version of my story so that you know how the world appears through my rose colored glasses.

 

So here's my questions, and I would love to hear your response so maybe I can finally understand and put this behind me. I'm not here to attack, so if it comes off that way, it is not my intent.

 

If you are staying with your husband, no matter what, due to the marital contract, then why did you have an affair when someone (AP) was going to get hurt? Perhaps that is better phrased as how come you were in a relationship where the AP would hurt and that's OK but leaving your marriage and children is not. How come the AP is OK to be hurt but not others?

 

Does that make sense? If it doesn't I can try and re-phrase it.

 

Sometimes I think that this was my first experience with a married person, and that I broke a cardinal rule in the relationship -- that I believed that he loved me and I fell in love with him, too. Maybe that is part of the answer to my question. Perhaps, he always viewed it as a fling and never thought that I would be hurt.

[Ruffian1]

I’m already pretending I love him

That is deception, that is what makes it an A. You should tell him you are just pretending.

I think my affair is partially an exit affair, but I won’t know until the sh*t hits the fan.

You think it's an exit A? you don’t know, but you love him so much and he loves you so much. They only way to know if it is truly an exit A is for you to see his reaction to being found out? If you . . . "really love" my OM. Honestly, I do. As a person. As a friend. As a lover". . . .why must you have a d day to exit?

Surely you aren’t scared of the reality of that with such a strong love between the two of you.

Seems like your love is based on a lot of conditions and timing.

[SugarHibiscus]

Usually right and wrong correspond with black and white.

 

If you don't see that as a simple way to decipher things - then it just may be complicated in justifying behavior.

 

When a person just does what's right - there is nothing to justify...not even whether it's black, white, purple or red.

 

I don't have the patience to walk you through the philosophical flaws in your statement. There are very few situations in life that are categorically right or wrong. Adultery isn't one of them. It must be easy to live in a world that is black or white. Oh, and it's a cop out.

 

As F. Scott Fitzgerald said, "The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."

 

sugarhibiscus, i totally get it. although… if my MM would leave, so would i. then again, i don't have kids. so i can't comment on what it's like with children in the picture. (MM is more in the state you are in, with a daughter he can't/won't disappoint while she is not quite an adult yet.)

 

i know that i would leave, though, so maybe my M is irretrievably lost and i should leave regardless. i'm in suspension right now. knowing what's "right", for your spouse, for yourself, for your kids, can be a difficult conclusion. it's not black and white, its just not. adult lives can be overwhelming, even for adults.

 

Thank you. Life is complicated, isn't it? I'm sorry your in limbo right now. I can relate and it's an awful place to be.

[beach]

I don't have the patience to walk you through the philosophical flaws in your statement. There are very few situations in life that are categorically right or wrong. Adultery isn't one of them. It must be easy to live in a world that is black or white. Oh, and it's a cop out.

 

As F. Scott Fitzgerald said, "The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."

 

 

 

Thank you. Life is complicated, isn't it? I'm sorry your in limbo right now. I can relate and it's an awful place to be.

 

I don't need you to walk me through anything. Doing what's right isn't flawed - to me.

 

We won't agree - that's for sure.

 

I like life to be simple and uncomplicated. I do my best not to harm others.

 

My mind is open but my morals and healthy boundary don't move to suit others.

 

I don't need to see philosophical flaws - I like to focus on what feels right when my conscience is clear.

[SugarHibiscus]

 

If you are staying with your husband, no matter what, due to the marital contract, then why did you have an affair when someone (AP) was going to get hurt? Perhaps that is better phrased as how come you were in a relationship where the AP would hurt and that's OK but leaving your marriage and children is not. How come the AP is OK to be hurt but not others?

 

Does that make sense? If it doesn't I can try and re-phrase it.

 

It took me a minute to respond to you because I wanted to take the time to read about your situation and craft a response.

 

IMO, your AP (notice I'm not saying x) truly does care for you. I think that a large function of a marriage is to rear children. He doesn't want to risk the relationship with his daughter as she is so young. It's not about his wife. He's trying to do the right thing for his daughter.

 

As to my situation, I am staying with my H because we have three very young children. I also don't have very many options financially right now. I'm locked down. If it weren't for the kids, I'd be outie.

 

When the physical part of our affair started last summer, we made a pact that neither of us would ask the other to leave our SO. I also said no saying I love you. We thought that if we set out ground rules it would minimize the hurt. He's having a hard time with both of those stipulations. We were naive to think that we would not fall completely, madly in love with each other. If I'm honest, we fell in love during the emotional part of our affair.

 

We also talk about how many people we would hurt if this comes out. We've run through several scenarios. Most of them involve us ending up together after the destruction. I'm not ready for that yet. I need to stand on my own two feet first.

[SugarHibiscus]

Poly- Pop quiz: What do you think they smack more of sanctimony or smugness? (I'm going with sanctimony.) I should be the smug one. I'm having my cake and eating it too. Yum. This cake sure is delicious. Smack smack.

 

My mind is open but my morals and healthy boundary don't move to suit others.

 

I don't need to see philosophical flaws - I like to focus on what feels right when my conscience is clear.

 

Thank you for making my point for me. Life is easier for those who can only see the little picture. I wish I was like you. Maybe you can teach me to ignore nuance?

 

 

Seems like your love is based on a lot of conditions and timing.

 

Our course of action is based on a lot of conditions and timing, not our love for each other.

Edited February 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[beach]

Thank you for making my point for me. Life is easier for those who can only see the little picture. I wish I was like you. Maybe you can teach me to ignore nuance?

 

There's nothing little about the world I live in. Stop making assumptions.

 

Instead of teaching you to ignore nuance it may be more useful to teach you to deal with resentments, fear and to have courage and strength to change your situation.

 

You can change this and live a life you prefer - instead of participating in more betrayal and sacrificing self respect.

[whichwayisup]

How long has the actual affair been? Including both EA and PA together. Did you meet him through your close friend or were you two friends and knew one another before they were together?

 

 

We also talk about how many people we would hurt if this comes out. We've run through several scenarios. Most of them involve us ending up together after the destruction. I'm not ready for that yet. I need to stand on my own two feet first.

 

On paper this may feel right and look good but until that D-Day happens, whether you confess or your husband/his girlfriend - your close friend - finds out, nobody knows how anybody is going to feel afterwards. There could be (and will be) so much pain and a lot of damage, lives devastated that the damage done may tear you and OM apart. All you have to go on is in what you two have shared IN an affair setting, in secret and behind closed doors. Whatever you two share has not been tested out in the real world, it's all good and based on things IN an affair. There's a difference between an affair and a regular one on one out in the open relationship.

[MuddyFootprints]

I kind of understand where you are mentally and emotionally right now. I just need to share something with you. Though I didn't pretend with my husband during my own 'exit affair' and was quite cruel about it, we are reconciling.

 

Yesterday, I had to call an ambulance for him. I hope you can imagine the thoughts that went through my head as I waited for emergency response. A 7 minutes response time is a long time to panic and have the past few years go through one's mind.

 

My kids are older, but still too young to be without their dad.

 

Whether he is unfocussed at work and has an accident or if his physical health is in decline due to the pain, stress, and pressure I have caused with my selfishness is unforgivable.

 

I wish I could take it all back, as unhappy as I was.

[whichwayisup]

I kind of understand where you are mentally and emotionally right now. I just need to share something with you. Though I didn't pretend with my husband during my own 'exit affair' and was quite cruel about it, we are reconciling.

 

Yesterday, I had to call an ambulance for him. I hope you can imagine the thoughts that went through my head as I waited for emergency response. A 7 minutes response time is a long time to panic and have the past few years go through one's mind.

 

My kids are older, but still too young to be without their dad.

 

Whether he is unfocussed at work and has an accident or if his physical health is in decline due to the pain, stress, and pressure I have caused with my selfishness is unforgivable.

 

I wish I could take it all back, as unhappy as I was.

 

Off topic to the original thread topic, but I do hope your husband is okay. Hope you're hanging in okay too. I know it's hard to deal with this type of stuff, the emotional stress and how draining it is at the hospital when it's someone you love.

[SugarHibiscus]

MuddyFootprints- I hope your H is ok. Thanks for your insight.

 

How long has the actual affair been? Including both EA and PA together. Did you meet him through your close friend or were you two friends and knew one another before they were together?

 

We all went to high school together. I stayed with (and married my) H and remained friends with my BFF throughout the years. They were together in high school but broke up in college. He reappeared in my life after nearly 15 years.

 

What evolved into an EA started in Spring 2012. It became a PA in Summer 2013. People have always thought that we have a thing for each other. (Even in h.s.) Before we brushed it off, but now its disturbing.

 

 

On paper this may feel right and look good but until that D-Day happens, whether you confess or your husband/his girlfriend - your close friend - finds out, nobody knows how anybody is going to feel afterwards. There could be (and will be) so much pain and a lot of damage, lives devastated that the damage done may tear you and OM apart. All you have to go on is in what you two have shared IN an affair setting, in secret and behind closed doors. Whatever you two share has not been tested out in the real world, it's all good and based on things IN an affair. There's a difference between an affair and a regular one on one out in the open relationship.

 

You are right on. When we discuss this we always say that the only thing we know for certain is that we can't know what's going to happen until it does. I always tell him that he loves me so much because we live in our own bubble without real life pressures. We have put thought and reflection into this.

 

He is NEVER here without my H. Ever.

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, one cannot just live on love. Life and obligations get in the way.

 

Whatever happens, I wish you all peace and hope when the time comes the truth does come out (and it will eventually) you all stay safe. Affairs that involve double betrayal are the worst kind of fallout. Not saying that to scare you, but to prepare you.