Loving my OM and my marital contract

[SugarHibiscus]

Thank you for your kindness. Sincerely.

[whichwayisup]

Thank you for your kindness. Sincerely.

 

You're welcome.

[MuddyFootprints]

O/T He seems to be doing much better, thank you. I'm listening to him snore, which is suddenly music to my ears.

[Eggplant]

As to my situation, I am staying with my H because we have three very young children. I also don't have very many options financially right now. I'm locked down. If it weren't for the kids, I'd be outie.

If you could go back in time, would you have taken steps to make yourself more financially independent? What conversations in the beginning of the marriage did you and your husband have about your staying home?

[Robert]

On topic posts please, this is not the thread to unleash a few pointed barbs at the thread starter.

The topic is loosely built around her loving her OM and staying married and the idea that the marriage is a contract that she feels she is still bound by.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Robert
Word issue

[Goodbye]

I can't disagree more with the OP. This is the way my exMM thinks...and it is truly a cake eating way of thinking.

 

Marriage is a legal contract? Yes. It is a contract between TWO people...not one. If your OM wasn't "hidden" as you say, I might be more sympathetic. But your one sided contract only suits you, and maybe the OM. What about your H?? If he was "in the know" he might want to opt out of his legal/societal contract with you with this funny thing that is legal in all states: DIVORCE. It is a legal/societal contract that acknowledges the dissolution of the marriage.

Edited February 9, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PurpleCardigan]

It took me a minute to respond to you because I wanted to take the time to read about your situation and craft a response.

 

IMO, your AP (notice I'm not saying x) truly does care for you. I think that a large function of a marriage is to rear children. He doesn't want to risk the relationship with his daughter as she is so young. It's not about his wife. He's trying to do the right thing for his daughter.

 

As to my situation, I am staying with my H because we have three very young children. I also don't have very many options financially right now. I'm locked down. If it weren't for the kids, I'd be outie.

 

When the physical part of our affair started last summer, we made a pact that neither of us would ask the other to leave our SO. I also said no saying I love you. We thought that if we set out ground rules it would minimize the hurt. He's having a hard time with both of those stipulations. We were naive to think that we would not fall completely, madly in love with each other. If I'm honest, we fell in love during the emotional part of our affair.

 

We also talk about how many people we would hurt if this comes out. We've run through several scenarios. Most of them involve us ending up together after the destruction. I'm not ready for that yet. I need to stand on my own two feet first.

 

Thank you for responding...I appreciate your candor about your situation and why you stay.

 

After reading through some of your posts, I hope that you are seeking some IC to deal with some very complicated issues. Be good to yourself as you sort this out.

[aliveagain]

The contract is only the public document or record that recognizes your sworn vow you made to each other, your word put into written form so all can see it. You once had a contract but you never fulfilled your part of it. In business it would be referred to as Breach of Contract and is the most common cause of lawsuits for damages. As husband and wife you have a duty to each other and every jurisdiction on the planet recognizes this fact, including every major religion, some even have commandments dealing with it. Another term of what you are doing is fraud(as bad as it gets in business). Let us not forget "Intentional Infliction Of Emotional Distress" he just hasn't understood your behaviour yet.

 

My point is you can be in love with whoever you want to be in love with, just be honest with everyone involved. I am happy that you love a guy that will sleep with another man's wife, sounds like your made for each other. The concern here is the guy you claim to have a contract with. He is still being defrauded, he is in the dark because of your deception. You are deceiving your children, your family and probably most of your friends. You need to tell him that you are out of the contract and love another man so all of you can find happiness. Your children will eventually adjust to a step father and step mother, they are young. There has to be a woman out there that will think your husband is the best thing to come into her life but you have got to set him free first. Everyone deserves happiness and to be loved so why not make it legitimate so you can tell the world instead of meeting on the dark side of the street for the rest of your life.

[SugarHibiscus]

The contract is only the public document or record that recognizes your sworn vow you made to each other, your word put into written form so all can see it. You once had a contract but you never fulfilled your part of it. In business it would be referred to as Breach of Contract and is the most common cause of lawsuits for damages. As husband and wife you have a duty to each other and every jurisdiction on the planet recognizes this fact, including every major religion, some even have commandments dealing with it. Another term of what you are doing is fraud(as bad as it gets in business). Let us not forget "Intentional Infliction Of Emotional Distress" he just hasn't understood your behaviour yet.

 

My point is you can be in love with whoever you want to be in love with, just be honest with everyone involved. I am happy that you love a guy that will sleep with another man's wife, sounds like your made for each other. The concern here is the guy you claim to have a contract with. He is still being defrauded, he is in the dark because of your deception. You are deceiving your children, your family and probably most of your friends. You need to tell him that you are out of the contract and love another man so all of you can find happiness. Your children will eventually adjust to a step father and step mother, they are young. There has to be a woman out there that will think your husband is the best thing to come into her life but you have got to set him free first. Everyone deserves happiness and to be loved so why not make it legitimate so you can tell the world instead of meeting on the dark side of the street for the rest of your life.

 

Ok..If we're going the Breach of Contract route, then doesn't it follow that the contract was null and void in 2008 when he commited adultery? How can I break a contract and intentionally inflict emotional distress when the contract had been amended (by him) to include infidelity?

 

Maybe I should try to rephrase my thoughts on this subject:

 

From an anthropological perspective, the marriage contract exists to ensure the propagation of our species. It is geared to ensure, to the man, that his offspring are genetically his. The female benefits in the contract because the male is going to provide protection and sustenance to the offspring.

 

It's one of the many examples of the biological background of human social behavior.

 

Where is romantic love in this equation? It's not there. Sorry but what does love have to do with marriage? It's a modern concept.

[ComingInHot]

Okay. I have a question. With all that you've written about keeping the "marital contact" (at least the parts that "work" for you), your thinking that you are a good mother and role model, WHEN the Truth comes out (and from reading here it most likely will come out) WHAT are you going to tell Your Kids? How will you explain your rationalization that you were doing "right" by "keeping only certain aspects of the marital contract that suited you" and how you" and how will you justify "being a good mother, teacher and role model" by not working and cheating on their Daddy?

[aliveagain]

Ok..If we're going the Breach of Contract route, then doesn't it follow that the contract was null and void in 2008 when he commited adultery? How can I break a contract and intentionally inflict emotional distress when the contract had been amended (by him) to include infidelity?

 

Maybe I should try to rephrase my thoughts on this subject:

 

From an anthropological perspective, the marriage contract exists to ensure the propagation of our species. It is geared to ensure, to the man, that his offspring are genetically his. The female benefits in the contract because the male is going to provide protection and sustenance to the offspring.

 

It's one of the many examples of the biological background of human social behavior.

 

Where is romantic love in this equation? It's not there. Sorry but what does love have to do with marriage? It's a modern concept.

 

If he breached the contract in 2008 and are still together than there must of been some form of amendment because the contract wasn't terminated which was the wife's right. He is not aware of the breach, it is still ongoing, he is still actively being deceived.

 

You are right people marry for many reasons, paternity is a right of marriage but not a guarantee because of this very reason, too many deceptive people out there that think they are entitled. I was deceived into believing my only son was mine but thanks to a third party that deception came to light. I know what it is like to raise a child for the first year of his life and then discover he belongs to the man she was banging for two years behind my back. Since she couldn't guarantee me the paternity of my children I terminated our contract immediately. Time is of the essence when it involves affair children.

 

You may choose to marry without love but not I. Have you ever lied to your husband and told him you loved him? Why would you do that if not to continue the deception? What does that say about you? Imagine what a bank would do to you if you lied on one of their contracts? What would your government do to you if you lied about your tax's?

 

Life would be a lot happier for you if you really loved the one you married. There is no place for deception in marriage, if you can't be honest don't be married.

[truthbetold]

I made the same marital contract all us married folks did.

What about the "for better or worse" clause in the contract. Surely, this is a "worse" part of my life. Isn't he supposed to forgive me, stay with me? Does the "forsaking all others" part trump the "for better or worse"?

 

Yeah, in many people's beliefs that is what it means. The forsaking all others follows with the commandment "thou shalt not commit adultery" To say that "for better or worse" should include infidelity, well I think you will be hard pressed for anyone to agree with that since there is the specific part "forsaking all others" that is separate and not covered under the "worse" part.

 

Nope. Doesn't excuse my affair. I was simply responding to the posters statement.

 

People can be so black and white on the issue of infidelity. My original post was to try to explain how I really do love my OM, even though I'm not leaving my husband for him. At least not right now. WS can truly love his/her AP.

 

Most people are who don't support cheating. The only ones I have ever seen that think it's gray are the ones cheating, not too hard to figure out why.

 

I don't have the patience to walk you through the philosophical flaws in your statement. There are very few situations in life that are categorically right or wrong. Adultery isn't one of them. It must be easy to live in a world that is black or white. Oh, and it's a cop out.

 

There are some things that are black and white to many of us. It's not a cop out, it's actually standing up for a belief. To believe otherwise is to believe in moral relativism which is a newer concept to justify what you want to do instead of the moral compass that's buried inside each of us telling us "right and wrong".

 

I don't need you to walk me through anything. Doing what's right isn't flawed - to me.

We won't agree - that's for sure.

 

I like life to be simple and uncomplicated. I do my best not to harm others.

My mind is open but my morals and healthy boundary don't move to suit others.

 

I don't need to see philosophical flaws - I like to focus on what feels right when my conscience is clear.

 

Exactly, the golden rule. Try your best to follow it and it will always bring peace.

 

Poly- Pop quiz: What do you think they smack more of sanctimony or smugness? (I'm going with sanctimony.) I should be the smug one. I'm having my cake and eating it too. Yum. This cake sure is delicious. Smack smack.

 

 

 

Thank you for making my point for me. Life is easier for those who can only see the little picture. I wish I was like you. Maybe you can teach me to ignore nuance?

 

 

 

 

Our course of action is based on a lot of conditions and timing, not our love for each other.

 

For me, it's because I see the "big picture" in that this is a stopping point in life and not the destination that I do see black and white on infidelity.

 

What I found interesting is that you subscribe to an "old" concept in the marriage contract but twist it into something it's not so it's suits your needs. Then you subscribe to a "new" concept of moral relativism that infidelity is not black and white (justification) to suit other needs.

 

I agree with the poster that said you breached your contract. It's as if you put it through a shredder. The words are still there but the meaning completely broken and invalid.

 

That's awful what this friend did to you regarding your child. Not to mention your husband cheating first. But two wrongs don't make a right, except in the land of moral relativism. You will feel the burden start to lift if you let go of all of this deception and start to live life authentically out in the light.

[yellowmaverick]

Okay. I have a question. With all that you've written about keeping the "marital contact" (at least the parts that "work" for you), your thinking that you are a good mother and role model, WHEN the Truth comes out (and from reading here it most likely will come out) WHAT are you going to tell Your Kids? How will you explain your rationalization that you were doing "right" by "keeping only certain aspects of the marital contract that suited you" and how you" and how will you justify "being a good mother, teacher and role model" by not working and cheating on their Daddy?

 

Great question, CIH. From my own personal experience with my WH, he could expound 1000 times a day about what a great father he was (during the affair). His children love him, but they vehemently disagree with this assessment of himself. At the end of the day, aren't their opinions the only ones that really matter? Deep down, he knows this and I think it will haunt him for a very long time.

[aliveagain]

Okay. I have a question. With all that you've written about keeping the "marital contact" (at least the parts that "work" for you), your thinking that you are a good mother and role model, WHEN the Truth comes out (and from reading here it most likely will come out) WHAT are you going to tell Your Kids? How will you explain your rationalization that you were doing "right" by "keeping only certain aspects of the marital contract that suited you" and how you" and how will you justify "being a good mother, teacher and role model" by not working and cheating on their Daddy?

 

It does sound by what she posted that others know about her infidelity, it seems that O/M is shouting it to the world. I think that reality will happen sooner than she thinks, that's how I found out, then what? Does she pack up her young children and move them in with O/M, is he ready to be a part time dad? She will be totally dependant on him. Most of the O/M I have known are only in it for the sex without the commitment, they usually run when she and her baggage become his problem and financial responsibility. Maybe this guys different?

 

SugarHibiscus, think back to the day you got married, could you have imagined that one day as a mother of three you would be on a public blog site bragging about how much you love another man while still married to your husband? Just reading these words, does it sound ok? What if we were talking about your daughter with three children and it was her husband that had a mistress, would you feel the same way?

[SugarHibiscus]

I only have a few minutes right now, so I can't address everything directly. Just a couple of quick comments.

How will you explain your rationalization that you were doing "right" by "keeping only certain aspects of the marital contract that suited you" and how you" and how will you justify "being a good mother, teacher and role model" by not working and cheating on their Daddy?

 

Wow. Just wow. I take exception to attacking me for "not working".

 

Do you really think I don't work because I'm a stay-at-home mom? I have three children under 8. Really? Are you a mother?

 

I'll give you the cheating part, but I will never have to justify why I'm a bad mother because I don't "work". I'll have you know that I am a highly educated woman that left a lucrative career to stay home when my second child was born with a disability. I guess that makes me selfish huh? I should just drop him off at daycare so I can be a good mother at my office. SMH.

 

It does sound by what she posted that others know about her infidelity, it seems that O/M is shouting it to the world. I think that reality will happen sooner than she thinks, that's how I found out, then what? Does she pack up her young children and move them in with O/M, is he ready to be a part time dad? She will be totally dependant on him. Most of the O/M I have known are only in it for the sex without the commitment, they usually run when she and her baggage become his problem and financial responsibility. Maybe this guys different?

 

SugarHibiscus, think back to the day you got married, could you have imagined that one day as a mother of three you would be on a public blog site bragging about how much you love another man while still married to your husband? Just reading these words, does it sound ok? What if we were talking about your daughter with three children and it was her husband that had a mistress, would you feel the same way?

No one in our lives know that we are having an affair. We live in a VERY large city with millions of people in it. One of the benefits of living in this environment is urban anonymity. He can tell strangers whatever he wants, it will never get back to us. I'm not saying that we won't get caught. I know we will eventually. I just don't think that a stranger is going to be the cause.

 

I will never have to be "totally dependent" on my AP. I can out earn both him and my husband.

 

If I could go back to my wedding day, I would tell my 23 year old self to wait until at least 30 to get married. To answer your question: We don't have to go back so far in time. If you had asked me this last year, I would have said that I would never stray. I think people who know me IRL would be shocked to learn about my infidelity.

 

ETA: We live in a no-fault divorce state. Our house would go to primary custodial parent. Me. I know this because I worked with a divorce lawyer when my H cheated. Maybe my OM would move in with me...

 

CIH- I see you are a mother. Although I can say something nasty, I will refrain from judging your parenting based on your posts.

Edited February 9, 2014 by SugarHibiscus

[sunburned]

As F. Scott Fitzgerald said, "The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."

 

.

Ah! How appropriate that you quote Fitzgerald, literary genius whose fodder was his own life ... marital problems, decadent lifestyle, alcoholism and his own super-sized ego. While his wife bumped around mental institutions on the East Coast, he shacked up with his lover, a gossip columnist, in Hollywood.

 

Given your affinity for a national treasure like Fitzgerald, I was shocked to see you quote him out of context, though I understand that doing so was convenient to your capricious "argument."

 

 

That quote is from The Crack Up, a short autobiographical magazine story, still widely available as a collection of essays.

 

 

Though an "intelligent" and "highly educated" woman like yourself would know this already, let me just enlighten the rest of the forum as to how it's typically quoted:

 

 

“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise.”

 

 

Either way you look, your sitch is hopeless, OP. Your marriage is hopeless as you are currently electing to frame it. Your future with OM is hopeless because it's fantasy. And yet, you are not determined "to make them otherwise." You are determined to perpetuate the status quo until you sink the entire ship. You said on this thread "I know we'll get caught eventually."

 

 

FSF wrote the essay during an introspective period after his own fall from greatness. He noted that we don't always feel the hurt or the heat in the immediate wake of life event (read: affair, in your case).

 

 

"There is another sort of blow that comes from within (later)," he wrote. "one that you don't feel until it's too late to do anything about it, until you realize with finality that in some regard you will never be as good a man again."

 

 

Feel free to substitute woman for man. As an xWW myself, I already have.

 

 

OP, I highly suggest you actually read this collection of essays cover to cover. Fitzgerald's star burned so brightly but in the end his reckless, self-centered behavior brought him unspeakable shame, grief and loss.

[eloise123]

I agree 100%. So often it is said 'if they loved you they would leave'. That is just not the way it works. There are so many other factors at play.

 

What I have learned is that so many OW/OM don't understand is that they are not the end game. Unless they are able to understand that basic fact it will always lead to heartache. They are being used. It really is as simple as that. Some are willing to accept that fact, but the vast majority are not. "This is my life and you fit into it in a certain discreet way." That's it.

OMG Realist you said you loved your OW, why the hell would you say that?

[ComingInHot]

SH, really? All you got out of my question was an "attack" about you Not working (which it wasn't)?? You are the one who stated that you would Not leave for financial reasons then state you have an MA from Northwestern. .. then you went on to describe the anthropological reason for the marital contract and the roles you believe each spouse is responsible for.. sheesh.

If that's all you got out of my question then clearly there has been no thought given to it.

 

I Am mother. Did stay at home. Have had opportunities to cheat. Considered my own question to you. Didn't cheat for my answer to that question as well as Many others.

[SugarHibiscus]

Sunburned-

 

Thank you for your response.

 

I also thought Fitzgerald was a perfect person to quote in my situation due to his personal struggles. You're right, I do know the quote is from Crack Up and I did intentionally omit the second line of the quote. He expounds on his understanding of intelligence by listing the example of continuing to believe the impossible is possible.

 

He used this example in Cracked Up because of the subject of his essay. It's a reasonable assumption, that given a different context, his observation of intelligence is still applicable and he would have followed it with a different example. For instance, one can believe that murder is inherently wrong but at the same time think that there are justifiable homicides.

 

I hold a MA in English Literature from Northwestern University. (It's not on the East Coast but still a decent school.)

 

I didn't know I had to spell out a quote's literary pedigree to use it. Or my own for that matter. See, I knew my MA would come in handy one day!

 

You're also right about my hopeless situation. Oh well. As Sartre said, "All human actions are equivalent... and... all are on principle doomed to failure." (Intentionally not citing my source but I assure you I have read the entire essay.)

[HermioneG]

I don't understand the "mommy is a person" part of the OP.

 

What does that mean?

[beach]

So, many people would never guess you to be that cheater... And that means that you pretend to be someone you are not.

 

After a long marriage - and many offers to cheat - I never did.

 

It isn't part of who I am.

 

Look deep within. Do you intend to be the woman people think you are or the woman you have become?

 

It really is up to you to change this.

 

IF you intend to keep seeing this OM - why not divorce your H and be free to do whatever you wish?

 

Being at home with small kids is certainly limiting - but it is possible to feel accomplished while doing the SAHM thing. Creative outlets were good for my soul!

 

Look within - then decide who you really wish to be - and take action to make that happen.

[aliveagain]

I only have a few minutes right now, so I can't address everything directly. Just a couple of quick comments.

 

 

Wow. Just wow. I take exception to attacking me for "not working".

 

Do you really think I don't work because I'm a stay-at-home mom? I have three children under 8. Really? Are you a mother?

 

I'll give you the cheating part, but I will never have to justify why I'm a bad mother because I don't "work". I'll have you know that I am a highly educated woman that left a lucrative career to stay home when my second child was born with a disability. I guess that makes me selfish huh? I should just drop him off at daycare so I can be a good mother at my office. SMH.

 

 

No one in our lives know that we are having an affair. We live in a VERY large city with millions of people in it. One of the benefits of living in this environment is urban anonymity. He can tell strangers whatever he wants, it will never get back to us. I'm not saying that we won't get caught. I know we will eventually. I just don't think that a stranger is going to be the cause.

 

I will never have to be "totally dependent" on my AP. I can out earn both him and my husband.

 

If I could go back to my wedding day, I would tell my 23 year old self to wait until at least 30 to get married. To answer your question: We don't have to go back so far in time. If you had asked me this last year, I would have said that I would never stray. I think people who know me IRL would be shocked to learn about my infidelity.

ETA: We live in a no-fault divorce state. Our house would go to primary custodial parent.me. I know this because I worked with a divorce lawyer when my H cheated. Maybe my OM would move in with me...

 

CIH- I see you are a mother. Although I can say something nasty, I will refrain from judging your parenting based on your posts.

 

 

Listen, I hope that things work out for you and O/M, I also hope you never have to explain the truth to your children one day. I don't know your husband but my heart goes out to him because of your actions, I would have posted the same to him had he been the one cheating on you and this had been his post. I have been on the receiving end of your sh*t sandwich and survived. Once she was the light in my day and now she's just another face in the crowd, another blurry face in the hundreds of thousands of faces I see every year. They always get caught, every woman that ever cheated on me got caught. As long as you are prepared for that eventuality I guess all is good in your world.

 

Love who you want, keep your vows, don't keep your vows, it won't make a difference to me when I'm sitting on a shaded terrace overlooking the Almalfi Coast. I'm just replying to a post giving my opinion from my experiences having dealt with a wayward spouse hoping you don't make the same mistakes with your husband. The outcome will affect a lot of people around you, specially your children. I know you can earn a lot of money, so why aren't you doing it now, will affect your affair time? Is this man your husbands friend?

 

The other point I want to make is, things don't always turn out the way you expect. Your husband may already know or strongly suspect. He may already be talking to a lawyer(find the posts by Sofie). Your boyfriend may meet someone and fall in love, you may contract an STD and pass it on to your husband, happens all the time here, you might get pregnant.

 

If you don't love your husband and you have such an amazing life with O/M and you can earn more money than the two of them put together whats keeping you from divorcing your husband, moving in with O/M, letting him look after your kids and get this fabulous high paying job so you can give your children the life they really deserve? Why do you instead choose to be an unemployed stay at home mom who is cheating on her husband with his friend? Not a shot just a question that is confusing me because it doesn't make sense to me.

[anne1707]

I don't understand the "mommy is a person" part of the OP.

 

What does that mean?

 

That she has many sides to her life as we all do. Wife, mother, daughter, friend, lover, colleague, boss, .... I.e . A woman.

[HermioneG]

That she has many sides to her life as we all do. Wife, mother, daughter, friend, lover, colleague, boss, .... I.e . A woman.

 

But what does that have to do with her decision to cheat?

 

Or is that not the point?

[HermioneG]

Ah! How appropriate that you quote Fitzgerald, literary genius whose fodder was his own life ... marital problems, decadent lifestyle, alcoholism and his own super-sized ego. While his wife bumped around mental institutions on the East Coast, he shacked up with his lover, a gossip columnist, in Hollywood.

 

Given your affinity for a national treasure like Fitzgerald, I was shocked to see you quote him out of context, though I understand that doing so was convenient to your capricious "argument."

 

 

That quote is from The Crack Up, a short autobiographical magazine story, still widely available as a collection of essays.

 

 

Though an "intelligent" and "highly educated" woman like yourself would know this already, let me just enlighten the rest of the forum as to how it's typically quoted:

 

 

“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise.”

 

 

Either way you look, your sitch is hopeless, OP. Your marriage is hopeless as you are currently electing to frame it. Your future with OM is hopeless because it's fantasy. And yet, you are not determined "to make them otherwise." You are determined to perpetuate the status quo until you sink the entire ship. You said on this thread "I know we'll get caught eventually."

 

 

FSF wrote the essay during an introspective period after his own fall from greatness. He noted that we don't always feel the hurt or the heat in the immediate wake of life event (read: affair, in your case).

 

 

"There is another sort of blow that comes from within (later)," he wrote. "one that you don't feel until it's too late to do anything about it, until you realize with finality that in some regard you will never be as good a man again."

 

 

Feel free to substitute woman for man. As an xWW myself, I already have.

 

 

OP, I highly suggest you actually read this collection of essays cover to cover. Fitzgerald's star burned so brightly but in the end his reckless, self-centered behavior brought him unspeakable shame, grief and loss.

 

The lit nerd in me is deeply grateful for this post. I was thinking the OP was out of context in posting Fitzgerald, and you explained beautifully why.