looking back on 18 months as the OW

[Henni]

I first posted here 15 months ago, I would add this post to that thread ('what is the right thing to do?') but apparently it's too old to add to, so here's a new one. It's really interesting to read back on old conversations. I completely forgot about LS for quite a while as I took a step away to clear the jaded, angry cliches out of my mind. We managed to cool things off for periods of time. We also got back together many times. For those who repeated 'he'll never leave his wife' over and over - he left his wife. He's been divorced quite a while now. He doesn't regret it. He is happier. He didn't lose the house, or the kids - one kid chose to live with him full time and the other is 50%.

 

Now comes the struggle to figure out when the right time to tell his kids about me is - as in, when to become an 'official' couple. They know I am his friend, that he spends time with me, that we went on holidays together, but I haven't felt ready to enter their lives. I instinctively want to wait, let them have a year to get used to the new living arrangement. His ex-wife has really badmouthed me to them, and him to them, and everyone, including me, is scared of what being an official couple would bring from her. She doesn't know me except in passing, but I guess she saw what was coming even before I did and hated me for it. I guess I can understand that. She hated him long before that, and the divorce hasn't weakened her resolve to continue hating him or me.

 

There were times when he was very weak, and I supported him and gave him strength to go back and work hard - even when working hard meant 'don't come here today, I know you feel weak and I want to see you, but you need to stay with your son'. There were times when he was badmouthing his wife and I told him to stop doing that - and like a lightbulb, he saw that he shouldn't be doing it and stopped. I support him instinctively, I can't stop it, because I love him. I think about his kids and what it must be like for them in every decision or conversation. It effects whether we have time together, it effects everything. I can't not consider them or leave them out of decisions either, because they are his kids, because any happiness we might hope for is dependent on their happiness first. Sometimes we are so good - when we have a bit of time to relax together and we're not trying to put out the last fire with every minute we have. It is easy in those times to feel that evrything will be fine, because it's so easy to be happy together.

 

There have also been times like today - when I feel really hurt and alone because I needed him and he couldn't be there, even though I am always there when he needs me. Sometimes I feel like the focus is so much on him - on his life, his kids, his ex wife problems, that I disappear. Even when I know, accept and make peace with the fact that his kids will and should always come first, even when I am the one putting his kids first by thinking about their perspective on our relationship every day, it still hurts to be invisible. It's not him who wants to hold back on telling his kids, it's me. I am terrified of being his mistake, of being labelled as a caricature OW - who is selfish and likes to take someone's husband, or who doesn't care about the kids - I'm really finding it hard to identify what my needs are even, because i've gotten so used to the kids needs, his needs, his wife's needs, everyone's needs except mine being important.

 

It has all been so hard. His life will definitely be healthier now that he is divorced, this at least is clear now that it's a few months down the road. He is mentally healthier and happier. His son is having problems because he spends every second week in the sole company of a bitter, needy, unhealthy mum and arrives depressed from her house every week, but before, he had conflict in his home every day. Now at least he has 50% of his time where he is not supposed to be making others feel better. He's never had that before - apparently - he spent his whole childhood trying to mediate and cheer his mum up. Both he and my partner have started counselling, which I very much encouraged, and somehow that helps me to feel more secure, like at least there is this independent, trained person in the mix, rather than feeling so much responsibility of support myself. At least there is another opinion, and the likelihood of him agreeing with me - his stable anchor - just because it sounds better that what he was thinking himself, is lessened by that other reasoned opinion his counselor provides.

 

I'm so scared of being 'official' both with his kids and in work (yes we work together, and his wife is in the same company but another department). I don't know how to get over that fear and I don't totally understand where it's coming from - but when I think about it, it's often the voice of angry posters here on LS that fill my head.

 

Now that this story is about the transition from affair, to divorce, to potential official couple, I guess it will soon be moved to another category, so that the OW/OM threads remain free of stories where the MM/MW actually leave their spouses and are happier for it. It's a pity, because my story as an OW is not over, and how people stop being OW is really what many posters seem to ask about. Sometimes the way to stop being the OW is to go for it, hope for change, expect change, fight the cliches bandied about in anger here, and trust that MM can't all be caricatures as often painted here.

 

Apart from that, I'd really like to hear some advise, I know there are insightful and kind people here and I've been away for a long time, but today is hard, I could use a little support figuring out myself and how to move forward. I know there are people here who have also transitioned from AP to official couple with kids involved. These are two teenagers. They have their own opinions and somehow it feels scarier than if they were younger kids or older adults. I'm terrified.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Henni

[blue963]

Henni

First i must say you seem to be handling the situation in a good way. I am very glad for you that he is happier and also happier with you in his world and that it will work out.

 

As for the teenager kids, I am currently living thru some really terrible things that my husband did to our family. He ruined our family's past and future and left of in ruins. I am only sharing this because, my children have been able to see the whole scenario very clearly and very maturely. (13, 15, 19, and 22) I think that his boys will realize the state of their relationship, will see that their dad is currently happier, they are happier when the dust settles and will accept you. Perhaps just try to spend some more time with the boys. As teenagers, they aren't naive and I am sure they realize that you are more than just a "friend".

[bentleychic]

Thank you for sharing your story. I sincerely hope they do not move this thread. It belongs here.

[Henni]

Henni

First i must say you seem to be handling the situation in a good way. I am very glad for you that he is happier and also happier with you in his world and that it will work out.

 

As for the teenager kids, I am currently living thru some really terrible things that my husband did to our family. He ruined our family's past and future and left of in ruins. I am only sharing this because, my children have been able to see the whole scenario very clearly and very maturely. (13, 15, 19, and 22) I think that his boys will realize the state of their relationship, will see that their dad is currently happier, they are happier when the dust settles and will accept you. Perhaps just try to spend some more time with the boys. As teenagers, they aren't naive and I am sure they realize that you are more than just a "friend".

 

Thanks blue, for your words of encouragement. His son is a scary enough prospect, but it's the 18 year old daughter that really terrifies me. Through all the problems in his marriage, and the conflict, she was not on the good side of her mom. Now that they are finally divorced, it seems this 18 year old is trying to control her father in much the same way her mom did. A new woman in Dad's life was most certainly not in her plans, and I'm afraid she will see me as direct competition.

 

And yes, I definitely think they realise i'm more than just a friend. I wanted them to know much less than they do, at least for a while, but it's not my decision. I'm a bit unhappy that my partner told them half the truth, i don't think that's healthy. My opinion is that it would be better either to leave it out all together, so they don't even have to think about the topic of their father's love life just now, or else tell all - and deal with the fallout together. But, not my kids, not my decision. Many things I care about and effect me are not my decision in this. It's part of why it's hard...

Edited February 11, 2014 by Henni

[jwi71]

I first posted here 15 months ago, I would add this post to that thread ('what is the right thing to do?') but apparently it's too old to add to, so here's a new one. It's really interesting to read back on old conversations. I completely forgot about LS for quite a while as I took a step away to clear the jaded, angry cliches out of my mind. We managed to cool things off for periods of time. We also got back together many times. For those who repeated 'he'll never leave his wife' over and over - he left his wife. He's been divorced quite a while now. He doesn't regret it. He is happier. He didn't lose the house, or the kids - one kid chose to live with him full time and the other is 50%.

 

Now comes the struggle to figure out when the right time to tell his kids about me is - as in, when to become an 'official' couple. They know I am his friend, that he spends time with me, that we went on holidays together, but I haven't felt ready to enter their lives. I instinctively want to wait, let them have a year to get used to the new living arrangement. His ex-wife has really badmouthed me to them, and him to them, and everyone, including me, is scared of what being an official couple would bring from her

 

I'm a bit confused. What did his xW say about you that doesn't, at the very least, imply YOU played a role in the demise of the M? ...and ergo more than just a friend to their father? Isn't this being a bit afraid of spilling already spilled milk?

 

Or...is i it she bad mouthed you as the "bleepin' OW" but does NOT know you are now the GF? And you worry the transition from OW to GF will make her nuts?

 

In any case...you can't control her. So don't worry about it. Honestly...what can you DO or SAY that will make this better? Yup, nothing. So...you be you. You be the GF. In consultation with the kids father, your BF, tell as much or as little as you two decide is age appropriate to the kids.

 

Then get on living. If you REALLY want to make a positive impression, go to couples therapy for this integration.

 

She doesn't know me except in passing, but I guess she saw what was coming even before I did and hated me for it. I guess I can understand that. She hated him long before that, and the divorce hasn't weakened her resolve to continue hating him or me.

 

Following on the above...let her stew in her hate. She will, I promise, be a pain in the ass. Little you can do though. Be reasonable. Expect some hardship up front. She is there forever. Work with your BF and the kids, age appropriate of course, and build this new life together.

 

I think counseling will help.

 

There were times when he was very weak, and I supported him and gave him strength to go back and work hard - even when working hard meant 'don't come here today, I know you feel weak and I want to see you, but you need to stay with your son'. There were times when he was badmouthing his wife and I told him to stop doing that - and like a lightbulb, he saw that he shouldn't be doing it and stopped. I support him instinctively, I can't stop it, because I love him. I think about his kids and what it must be like for them in every decision or conversation. It effects whether we have time together, it effects everything. I can't not consider them or leave them out of decisions either, because they are his kids, because any happiness we might hope for is dependent on their happiness first. Sometimes we are so good - when we have a bit of time to relax together and we're not trying to put out the last fire with every minute we have. It is easy in those times to feel that evrything will be fine, because it's so easy to be happy together.

 

I understand the spirit of this...but disagree. You ALL need to work together to integrate. And this is not going to be fast or easy. You will, in time, to some degree, have to look ugly. Because it IS ugly. Him too. And the xW. Keep your eye on the goal...and you won't reach it tomorrow. I'd find someone who can help with this. You may have picked up on the fact that I am very pro-therapy. Hint.

 

There have also been times like today - when I feel really hurt and alone because I needed him and he couldn't be there, even though I am always there when he needs me. Sometimes I feel like the focus is so much on him - on his life, his kids, his ex wife problems, that I disappear. Even when I know, accept and make peace with the fact that his kids will and should always come first, even when I am the one putting his kids first by thinking about their perspective on our relationship every day, it still hurts to be invisible. It's not him who wants to hold back on telling his kids, it's me. I am terrified of being his mistake, of being labelled as a caricature OW - who is selfish and likes to take someone's husband, or who doesn't care about the kids - I'm really finding it hard to identify what my needs are even, because i've gotten so used to the kids needs, his needs, his wife's needs, everyone's needs except mine being important.

 

I am sorry these thoughts have taken root. Do know you are NOT alone in them. This, here and now, what you face, IS THE HARD PART. Those doubts...that lack of trust (think about it, that's what this is). You have to work on your new, rapidly evolving R with him as he must work hard with his kids and xW and you...through in the contagion of a joint workplace...yeah...overly full plates. This is where you come together. HE can't do it alone. The kids can't. The xW can't. You can't. You need to get in front of this. And it means hard, painful, vulnerable talks. You must find the perfect balance of being there and not. I don't know what that is. I suspect it doesn't exist. So lets try and find balance and screw the perfect part. Sometimes it measn being there. Sometimes not.

 

 

It has all been so hard. His life will definitely be healthier now that he is divorced, this at least is clear now that it's a few months down the road. He is mentally healthier and happier. His son is having problems because he spends every second week in the sole company of a bitter, needy, unhealthy mum and arrives depressed from her house every week, but before, he had conflict in his home every day. Now at least he has 50% of his time where he is not supposed to be making others feel better. He's never had that before - apparently - he spent his whole childhood trying to mediate and cheer his mum up. Both he and my partner have started counselling, which I very much encouraged, and somehow that helps me to feel more secure, like at least there is this independent, trained person in the mix, rather than feeling so much responsibility of support myself. At least there is another opinion, and the likelihood of him agreeing with me - his stable anchor - just because it sounds better that what he was thinking himself, is lessened by that other reasoned opinion his counselor provides.

 

These are good thoughts. Hold on to them.

How about some good thoughts about you? Here's one - you have the mind to say the above. A good place to be.

 

I'm so scared of being 'official' both with his kids and in work (yes we work together, and his wife is in the same company but another department). I don't know how to get over that fear and I don't totally understand where it's coming from - but when I think about it, it's often the voice of angry posters here on LS that fill my head.

 

<smack>. That's for fishing off the company pier. I say the folowing, not to be overly dramatic, but because the only one you can control is you. How about a different company? If its drama now...just wait till she finds the OW is now the GF and...step-mom. Ohhhh man...yeah, that won't go over too well. Maybe we create some distance? A thought?

 

Now that this story is about the transition from affair, to divorce, to potential official couple, I guess it will soon be moved to another category, so that the OW/OM threads remain free of stories where the MM/MW actually leave their spouses and are happier for it. It's a pity, because my story as an OW is not over, and how people stop being OW is really what many posters seem to ask about. Sometimes the way to stop being the OW is to go for it, hope for change, expect change, fight the cliches bandied about in anger here, and trust that MM can't all be caricatures as often painted here.

 

True enough. But please realize...you are the RARE case.

It is not a common outcome.

 

I'm terrified

 

Good. I don't mean that snarky - fear keeps us alive (literally).

I can't speak to the transition out of experience. I CAN speak to dealing with a bat**** crazy xW though.

 

It. Gets. Better. Not perfect. Better.

 

Try and remember this. You can only control you. Let go of all else. Be true to yourself - and considerate of others and the circumstance.

 

Your next step is to have a great date with the BF. And forget all this, if only for a while. Then, sometime soon, tell HIM this. Make a plan. Communication is YOUR best weapon.

 

(and maybe find some IC for you and couples counseling for you all)

[Lady2163]

I do feel the need to preface my post with the fact I don't I have children of my own. I've had friends, family and coworkers in your position. I've also counseled some children in their situation.

 

I know your MM, now boyfriend has been through a battle, but he does have one important one left to fight. You've supported him, now he must support you. It is important the children know how vital you are to him. They need to know you make him happy. They need to know his life will be complete when both you and them are in it.

 

He should tell them, they don't need to love you, they don't even need to like you. But, he expects them to treat you with courtesy and respect. He should let them know he knows they don't want or need a second mother, but having a positive adult female in ther life is a good thing.

 

If he doesn't set limits and expectations, then you could have years of misery as they test the boundaries and cause a lot of he said, she said arguments.

 

Actions speak louder than words..although listening to them will be important for you as well.

 

In this case, the word manipulation is not meant to be negative. But he does need to do a little bit of that with them. If the children are hateful to you, they need to know it will hurt him. He needs to tell them that liking you or being kind to you does not invalidate their feelings for their mother.

 

Good luck.

[whichwayisup]

It hasn't been that long since the divorce, so really be involved and meet his kids when you feel ready. Don't let him pressure you into this.

 

I think you and him need to bond more, rid COMPLETELY of the affair dynamic, don't see yourself as the ow or even exow and build upon what you do share now, build a stronger bond and glue together so as time goes on you two are a united couple facing the odds against and tough times.

 

This is not going to be easy, but if you love him and he loves you, make it work.

 

Sometimes I feel like the focus is so much on him - on his life, his kids, his ex wife problems, that I disappear.

 

Tell him this! Speak up and be honest..But, be understanding too that he comes with baggage - His ex wife, and kids are part of the package and at times it's going to interfere, there will be times he can't be there for you 100%, but he can do the best he can.

[Henni]

 

I'm a bit confused. What did his xW say about you that doesn't, at the very least, imply YOU played a role in the demise of the M? ...and ergo more than just a friend to their father? Isn't this being a bit afraid of spilling already spilled milk?

 

Or...is i it she bad mouthed you as the "bleepin' OW" but does NOT know you are now the GF? And you worry the transition from OW to GF will make her nuts?

 

In any case...you can't control her. So don't worry about it. Honestly...what can you DO or SAY that will make this better? Yup, nothing. So...you be you. You be the GF. In consultation with the kids father, your BF, tell as much or as little as you two decide is age appropriate to the kids.

 

Then get on living. If you REALLY want to make a positive impression, go to couples therapy for this integration.

 

 

 

Following on the above...let her stew in her hate. She will, I promise, be a pain in the ass. Little you can do though. Be reasonable. Expect some hardship up front. She is there forever. Work with your BF and the kids, age appropriate of course, and build this new life together.

 

I think counseling will help.

 

 

 

I understand the spirit of this...but disagree. You ALL need to work together to integrate. And this is not going to be fast or easy. You will, in time, to some degree, have to look ugly. Because it IS ugly. Him too. And the xW. Keep your eye on the goal...and you won't reach it tomorrow. I'd find someone who can help with this. You may have picked up on the fact that I am very pro-therapy. Hint.

 

 

 

I am sorry these thoughts have taken root. Do know you are NOT alone in them. This, here and now, what you face, IS THE HARD PART. Those doubts...that lack of trust (think about it, that's what this is). You have to work on your new, rapidly evolving R with him as he must work hard with his kids and xW and you...through in the contagion of a joint workplace...yeah...overly full plates. This is where you come together. HE can't do it alone. The kids can't. The xW can't. You can't. You need to get in front of this. And it means hard, painful, vulnerable talks. You must find the perfect balance of being there and not. I don't know what that is. I suspect it doesn't exist. So lets try and find balance and screw the perfect part. Sometimes it measn being there. Sometimes not.

 

 

 

 

These are good thoughts. Hold on to them.

How about some good thoughts about you? Here's one - you have the mind to say the above. A good place to be.

 

 

 

<smack>. That's for fishing off the company pier. I say the folowing, not to be overly dramatic, but because the only one you can control is you. How about a different company? If its drama now...just wait till she finds the OW is now the GF and...step-mom. Ohhhh man...yeah, that won't go over too well. Maybe we create some distance? A thought?

 

 

 

True enough. But please realize...you are the RARE case.

It is not a common outcome.

 

 

 

Good. I don't mean that snarky - fear keeps us alive (literally).

I can't speak to the transition out of experience. I CAN speak to dealing with a bat**** crazy xW though.

 

It. Gets. Better. Not perfect. Better.

 

Try and remember this. You can only control you. Let go of all else. Be true to yourself - and considerate of others and the circumstance.

 

Your next step is to have a great date with the BF. And forget all this, if only for a while. Then, sometime soon, tell HIM this. Make a plan. Communication is YOUR best weapon.

 

(and maybe find some IC for you and couples counseling for you all)

 

This is such a great post, thank you! About crying over already spilled milk - she suspected something was going on before anything was going on. She told her son, then 12 years old, a big story about a young, evil, predatory woman who manipulated his a55h0le father into an affair in order to ruin her life, and the life of the family. I am not exaggerating. She threatened divorce constantly in front of the kids for years before I even met him. That doesn't mean she was happy when he finally decided that he wanted a divorce - and it wasn't just a threat to win an argument. My partner/boyfriend (spot the insecurities there - not even comfortable with labelling him!) found out about the stories she was telling their kid when he found something his son had written on it. She actively manipulates the son to try and damage his relationship with his father. She was really into dramatics in front of the kids throughout the divorce. She waited for them to come home from school before arguing about legal documents at the dinner table, in front of them. So, I'm afraid. She did this with no evidence that anything was going on beyond her (actually correct) intuition that we got on a bit too well. She has also been bitching constantly in work and actively working to ruin him, and me, and she gets some support there from one or two particularly bitchy colleagues. But - right now it's all rumour, there is nothing to substantiate it. I can just about handle the rumour, because it's rumour, and really nobody's business. But - I'm so, so terrified of all that too. It would be great to move to another company but it's the only one in our town - both our work is quite specialist. I know all I can control is me and I've been trying hard to be a person I can respect in the future. I am honest with him, I tell him how I feel. I feel a bit trapped in a situation where, in an attempt to bring about a smoother transition, he's put me in a role based on half truths - I am his friend, I am important to him, and he spends time with me. This is what he tells them. But, I think it's too soon, I want to grow as a couple and build some strength before involving them. The more he tells them right now the worse they are responding. His daughter tries to manipulate him not to spend time with me in various ways. She tells him he shouldn't have a relationship with someone his exW hates. He wavers between wanting me to come and have dinner with them, and when I say it's too soon and we need to be in a stronger place before involving them, he wonders if we should take a few months break and try again when the dust settles. Today I realised that he has told them more than I knew, and also took advise from his mother, who I don't know at all, and as far as I know doesn't know about me, but who said he should not have a new relationship but rather focus 100% on his kids. They are all understandable positions, and they are all about other people's needs rather than mine. I just feel a bit lost in it all.

[whichwayisup]

She has also been bitching constantly in work and actively working to ruin him, and me, and she gets some support there from one or two particularly bitchy colleagues. But - right now it's all rumour, there is nothing to substantiate it.

 

Not that it's right but she feels you and her husband broke up her marriage so she seems to be in revenge mode to make sure she messes up things up for the both of you.

[Henni]

I do feel the need to preface my post with the fact I don't I have children of my own. I've had friends, family and coworkers in your position. I've also counseled some children in their situation.

 

I know your MM, now boyfriend has been through a battle, but he does have one important one left to fight. You've supported him, now he must support you. It is important the children know how vital you are to him. They need to know you make him happy. They need to know his life will be complete when both you and them are in it.

 

He should tell them, they don't need to love you, they don't even need to like you. But, he expects them to treat you with courtesy and respect. He should let them know he knows they don't want or need a second mother, but having a positive adult female in ther life is a good thing.

 

If he doesn't set limits and expectations, then you could have years of misery as they test the boundaries and cause a lot of he said, she said arguments.

 

Actions speak louder than words..although listening to them will be important for you as well.

 

In this case, the word manipulation is not meant to be negative. But he does need to do a little bit of that with them. If the children are hateful to you, they need to know it will hurt him. He needs to tell them that liking you or being kind to you does not invalidate their feelings for their mother.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you so much for writing this. It's exactly this - kids testing boundaries, me feeling that it's not my business as they are not my kids on the one hand, and on the other hand it really effects me and I feel overlooked when he makes these decisions without me, because the fall out often leads to us not having time together as he looks to reassure them that everything is normal and ok, and any time we do have together being taken over with how to deal with that, even when it is what he has told them that caused the worry in the first place. That's a very long sentence - sorry - I guess it reflects the long and complicated situation.

[whichwayisup]

he wonders if we should take a few months break and try again when the dust settles.

 

This might not be what you want to hear, but he is realizing that you two being together is too soon after the divorce. Maybe he needs to be on his own for a while. Deal with the fallout of the affair, the divorce, and like it or not, he still needs to grieve the loss of his marriage, the family unit as one. He seems to be pulled in many directions and isn't capable of giving much to you. The focus is always on him, his life, kids, ex, etc.. I mean, when was the last time it was just about you?

 

it is waayyy too soon to meet his kids and go out to dinner with them, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

[Henni]

Not that it's right but she feels you and her husband broke up her marriage so she seems to be in revenge mode to make sure she messes up things up for the both of you.

 

I think she's been in revenge mode for much longer than that. I think the whole marriage was one massive disappointment for her, she hated and resented him for at least ten years, she married because of pressure from her parents, she needed someone to blame her unhappiness on and he filled that role. Now, I think the fact that he asked for a divorce in the end, and that someone else might actually want a relationship with him, doesn't fit that picture of her being stuck with a **** husband and a victim of that. It's not only revenge, it's an agenda to be right, and for him to be wrong, a long, bitter battle waged in front of the kids over their entire life. But of course, now that I am on the scene, I expect her to take full advantage of the opportunity to blame me. Deep, deep breaths here. These things are not just my reading of the situation, which is of course likely to be biased, but I can't get into details here.

[Henni]

This might not be what you want to hear, but he is realizing that you two being together is too soon after the divorce. Maybe he needs to be on his own for a while. Deal with the fallout of the affair, the divorce, and like it or not, he still needs to grieve the loss of his marriage, the family unit as one. He seems to be pulled in many directions and isn't capable of giving much to you. The focus is always on him, his life, kids, ex, etc.. I mean, when was the last time it was just about you?

 

it is waayyy too soon to meet his kids and go out to dinner with them, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

That is, almost word for word, exactly what I've been saying to him. I don't know if it's too soon for us to be together, considering he grieved his marriage many years ago and was cohabiting for the kids, but I do think it's too soon for this even to be an issue in the kids heads. I don't think they need to know or really should care about their father's love life until there is a stable, long term relationship there and they are used to the new set up. I also added to this that he needs to work on and build a good communication with his exW, if we are to be happy, I am the one keeping an eye on the long term and he appreciates that because it's hard not to react when attacked and he needs this calming influence, he listens. But, all of the research out there suggests that taking a break is not a good option for a successful relationship unless the only alternative is to split. There is also strength in the argument that this is the hard part - the stuff to face together. Taking a break now could easily mean running away from problems right when I am the one who needs some support and validation, and that doesn't look like a great option right now either.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Henni

[cocorico]

Great to see you back Henni.

 

Some transitions go more smoothly than others, and while yours is experiencing stressors, it is far from the worst case scenario too.

 

What really helped in our transition was family counselling for him and his kids. (They also had IC). The kids were on-side with the D because they had lived through a previous separation, a failed reconciliation, and then the A, and they chose to live with their father. They lived together - him and the kids - as a family for 6 months before I moved in. They were older teens by that stage.

 

While your position on his kids is laudable, there is a risk of you and your needs getting lost in all of that. You are not just his support system, you are also his partner and lover and the R needs to work for you, too. Have you considered couples counselling to address the transition? There are many conflicting needs it seems and if anyone's are not being met sustainably, the R won't be sustainable and that in itself will add more stressors (for him, and in turn, for the kids.

 

If the girl is 18, what are her plans? It might be easier to "wait it out" if she plans to go away to university at the end of the school year, to avoid more than one big transition, if you can put a "holding plan" in place where your partner commits to, say, Friday nights being date night with you, in the meantime, so that you are not just the polyfilla that squeezes into the cracks. You need some time, some focus and some commitment too, if you are to be a part of the family and not just "Dad's extramural interest".

[Speakingofwhich]

Thanks for posting this update, Henni. I also encourage you to go for counseling with your bf during this time and not to take a break from your R with him.

 

I would think the 18-year-old girl will be the biggest issue in your R and possibly at some point she could be brought into counseling for a few sessions.

 

Also, I'd be surprised if the kids haven't figured out that the two of you are a couple. My own kids were 6 and 11 (boys) at the time of the D of their dad and me and they figured out, with only one meeting of OW as a friend, that their dad was having an affair with her. There was no touching or anything to indicate there was more than a friendship, they just knew. And I had said nothing to them about her or even suggested the possibility he was with someone because at that point I didn't know or suspect there was an OW.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Speakingofwhich
clarity

[road]

He should let them know he knows they don't want or need a second mother, but having a positive adult female in ther life is a good thing.

 

 

 

 

How does being an adulterer make an OW a positive adult figure?

 

 

There is no reason for the WH's kids to accept, be kind, respectful, or even courteous to the OW.

 

 

The OW was the straw that finally broke their camels back. This OW can never replace or repair what she did to these kids whether they a 4, 14, or 34.

[road]

Thank you so much for writing this. It's exactly this - kids testing boundaries, me feeling that it's not my business as they are not my kids on the one hand, and on the other hand it really effects me and I feel overlooked when he makes these decisions without me, because the fall out often leads to us not having time together as he looks to reassure them that everything is normal and ok, and any time we do have together being taken over with how to deal with that, even when it is what he has told them that caused the worry in the first place. That's a very long sentence - sorry - I guess it reflects the long and complicated situation.

 

 

 

 

 

You are only showing concern for yourself. How his kids are causing you problems. That his kids are stressing you and upsetting you.

 

 

While you ignore how you turned these kids life up side down. Yet how can complain how these kids are so unreasonable to not accept you.

[veryhappy]

Good to see you back. I remember you as the feisty one who wouldn't fall for the reformed agenda around here.

 

You sound mentally exhausted and in overdrive. Breathe from time to time.

 

First off, repeat yourself that you are not the cause of the divorce. I know you know it, but you are starting to absorb some blame. So many of us evil other women have tried tearing apart happy and unhappy marriages and have failed miserably. You are not that special and you are not responsible for their divorce.

 

Second, you have a lot of fear and you can't be strong coming from that place. Kids feel that and especially these kids will try to play it for their needs. Get rid of the fear. Be nice, respectful and considerate as you are, but carry yourself to make the point that you do matter as a person and they can't walk over you.

 

A separation is a bad idea for an established relationship. For you I think it would fall under giving it time and not rushing anything.6 months or a year might make all the difference.

 

Edit to point that the poster above blamed you for ruining the kids' life. Yeah...nonsense.

Edited February 11, 2014 by cutedragon

[Speakingofwhich]

I'd want the kids to be respectful and courteous no matter how they feel about people and/or situations at all times in their lives.

 

Because being respectful and courteous is something a person is, not something a person does!

 

It's a commentary on whom a person is at the core, not on whom the person or people are that one is treating respectfully and courteously, or disrespectfully and rudely (depending on which category one happens to fall into!).

[cocorico]

How does being an adulterer make an OW a positive adult figure?

 

In and of itself, it does not. But neither does it in and of itself preclude it. In this particular case, it seems that the BS is (possibly clinically) depressed and is unable / unwilling to provide the kids with positive energy, security, and nourishment of their self-esteem currently, as evidenced by the state of mind of the boy when he returns from spending time with her (and, possibly, the girl's choice not to). Having a "normal" adult around who can parent positively can make a huge difference to teenagers - I have seen it myself with my H's kids.

 

 

There is no reason for the WH's kids to accept, be kind, respectful, or even courteous to the OW.

 

No, of course not - there are plenty of brats around, and no reason that these kids should not be added to that number. Unless, of course, their father cares enough about them to want them to be nicer people, who treat others decently as that, in turn, will increase the chances of them being treated decently by others in return. But if he's happy for them to be brats, and to be treated as brats by others, then he is under no obligation to instill decent values and behavioural norms in them.

 

 

The OW was the straw that finally broke their camels back. This OW can never replace or repair what she did to these kids whether they a 4, 14, or 34.

 

Really? She did it, huh? she magicked their father into giving up his willpower! falling entirely under her spell! and doing what she wanted? she magicked their mother into being a misery guts unable or unwilling to raise her own kids properly? She is that powerful that everyone simply bends to her will - aside from the recalcitrant kids, of course, who seem impervious to her powers? She broke them, and she can never fix that? interesting perspective. Quite common in the 13th century, as I recall, but rather less so these days.

[Henni]

How does being an adulterer make an OW a positive adult figure?

 

I am not an adulterer; an adulterer is someone who is married and has an affair. I have never been married or been unfaithful to anyone i'm in a relationship with. Also, he's now divorced.

 

There is no reason for the WH's kids to accept, be kind, respectful, or even courteous to the OW.

 

Yes there is. Because he loves me, and they love him.

 

The OW was the straw that finally broke their camels back. This OW can never replace or repair what she did to these kids whether they a 4, 14, or 34.

 

These kids claim to be much happier since the separation. They don't have to listen to arguments everyday, or spend all their time trying to mediate between their parents.

[Henni]

You are only showing concern for yourself. How his kids are causing you problems. That his kids are stressing you and upsetting you.

 

No, the potential to hurt the kids by introducing a new person in their lives before they are secure in their new set up is what's keeping me awake at night. If I didn't care about them, things would be a lot simpler and I wouldn't care what he told them.

 

While you ignore how you turned these kids life up side down. Yet how can complain how these kids are so unreasonable to not accept you.

 

I did not turn these kids lives upside down. Their father chose to divorce, they grew up in constant conflict. He made this decision based on what was right for them and with the help of a counselor came to realise that remaining in the high conflict marriage was actually more damaging for the kids than separating. His counselor is supported by all research on the topic, too. They could probably do with their lives being turned upside down but I was not the one to do it.

[Henni]

Good to see you back. I remember you as the feisty one who wouldn't fall for the reformed agenda around here.

 

You sound mentally exhausted and in overdrive. Breathe from time to time.

 

First off, repeat yourself that you are not the cause of the divorce. I know you know it, but you are starting to absorb some blame. So many of us evil other women have tried tearing apart happy and unhappy marriages and have failed miserably. You are not that special and you are not responsible for their divorce.

 

Second, you have a lot of fear and you can't be strong coming from that place. Kids feel that and especially these kids will try to play it for their needs. Get rid of the fear. Be nice, respectful and considerate as you are, but carry yourself to make the point that you do matter as a person and they can't walk over you.

 

A separation is a bad idea for an established relationship. For you I think it would fall under giving it time and not rushing anything.6 months or a year might make all the difference.

 

Edit to point that the poster above blamed you for ruining the kids' life. Yeah...nonsense.

 

Thank you cute dragon. I am exhausted. I actually would love to take some credit for finally ending what was a horrendous 10+ year, sexless, loveless feud of bitter disappointment played out in front of two children, who were manipulated and emotionally scarred by the experience, but the truth is that he made that decision based on what he felt was right for his children, not based on what he felt was right for me or even for him, ultimately.

[Henni]

Great to see you back Henni.

 

Some transitions go more smoothly than others, and while yours is experiencing stressors, it is far from the worst case scenario too.

 

What really helped in our transition was family counselling for him and his kids. (They also had IC). The kids were on-side with the D because they had lived through a previous separation, a failed reconciliation, and then the A, and they chose to live with their father. They lived together - him and the kids - as a family for 6 months before I moved in. They were older teens by that stage.

 

While your position on his kids is laudable, there is a risk of you and your needs getting lost in all of that. You are not just his support system, you are also his partner and lover and the R needs to work for you, too. Have you considered couples counselling to address the transition? There are many conflicting needs it seems and if anyone's are not being met sustainably, the R won't be sustainable and that in itself will add more stressors (for him, and in turn, for the kids.

 

If the girl is 18, what are her plans? It might be easier to "wait it out" if she plans to go away to university at the end of the school year, to avoid more than one big transition, if you can put a "holding plan" in place where your partner commits to, say, Friday nights being date night with you, in the meantime, so that you are not just the polyfilla that squeezes into the cracks. You need some time, some focus and some commitment too, if you are to be a part of the family and not just "Dad's extramural interest".

 

I really appreciate your perspective on this...I know you've been through it and come out with a happier, healthier homelife for the kids. My needs are definitely getting lost, and some of that is my fault. I'm so scared of being this negative thing in his kids eyes, both now and in the future if we are to tell them about us, that almost all of our time together ends up being conversations about how to avoid that, if it's possible to avoid that, and what they've said/how they've been since we last spoke. I guess I am Dad's extramural interest right now. But I also don't feel like enough time has past for them to be ready for another person in their lives. They are very much still getting over the years of conflict, they are afraid of how their mother will react to everything, not only to me. I've never gone to their house and I feel really uncomfortable about doing that - it's the house where their mother lived until recently and it has ghosts for my SO also. These kids have no experience of a loving relationship, only conflict and parents in separate rooms, waiting for a cease fire which never lasted long.