How to broach subject with wife?

[DasPope]

 

I know what she told you. I would be extremely curious of what she told her girlfriends about why she was doing it, and how she felt about you. I also would be curious to know what she tells them now about being caught.

 

 

This is indeed a valid point for me.

 

I am aware of the conversations she had prior to being discovered as I have had access to various email and txt exchanges and the content of those conversations makes me optimistic about our relationship rather then pessimistic.

As to what she's saying now I am monitoring her communications closely to keep informed. It's a awful situation to feel that lack of trust but I feel I must have access to the complete picture. So far today nothing she has said to her friends has contradicted the feelings she has expressed to me directly.

 

In many ways I feel somewhat better (strangely) because its clear she had nothing resembling an affair in fact she was never with the same OM twice. The time I suspected she was with a OM for 2 days over a weekend was actually a different man each night (I don't know if that makes it worse or better but it felt better that she never went back for seconds so to speak).

 

I have some ideas as to why she has behaved like this that even she is unaware of consciously that may be valid but I think we best explore those as a couple together with a counselor.

 

At the moment things are very raw and ugly for both of us but most of all very sad and we have a appointment to see someone on Friday that hopefully may point us towards a path we can take.

 

It may well be that I become very angry as many people here seem to be but right now all I am feeling is a overwhelming sense of sadness as if someone close had passed away.

 

I'd take time to thank people for their kind thoughts and wishes and advice (however vitriolic and bitter it may seem to me now).

Edited February 13, 2014 by DasPope

[miguelcervantes]

So what exactly is a deal breaker for you ? And what are your accepted boundaries going to be going forward ?

 

Deep down, she likes the single lifestyle and wants to pursue it while married to you - even if she tells you otherwise. Do you really know why this is ? You need to find out.

 

She likes to lie about her behaviour until caught ? Again, do you know why. You need to find out.

 

I agree, that its not so much to do with age or anything like that - however, has she matured to the level of being able to settle down ? She could be 50 and still be immature.

 

And (please take time to think about your answer here) why do you love her ? Really ? What is the attraction ? Is it sustainable over time ?

[lolablue17]

I'm with my heart with you, man.

 

All I can do is sending you this link...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfM9gQkfwyg

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

We don't have any information about the state of mind of the WS, only what the OP tells us. He said that she is obviously very guilty and remorseful, and we all know, as BS's this happens with almost all discoveries. Saying that does not mean that she didnt step out and then come home with nothing but a smile on her face. In fact he hasnt told us ANYTHING about what she has said about WHAT she was feeling about what she was doing other than she knows she has a problem.

 

WE cannot automatically assume that if something is not THERE in a post, that it does not exist. We only have what we have. The rest is conjecture.

 

Thank you for taking the time to correct all of us, but I think you misunderstood what I posted.

[Bryanp]

You do understand that you must be checked immediately for STD's. By engaging in one night stands with strangers she has put herself and you at great risk for diseases. I am sad to say that this is another examples how she simply did not care if she put you at risk. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes about her disrespect and destain for you, your relationship and your marriage.

[Iguanna]

I'd agree with you. I've found the level of hostility and prejudice from people here who simply do not believe the information they have been given to be incredible.

 

They say "Smart people learn from their mistakes. But the real sharp ones learn from the mistakes of others". We have no reason to be hostile towards you, we don't know you. In particular and talking about myself I noticed some things which you chose to ignore cause they are not true in your case or cause it was more convenient that way. Sometimes it's not a bad thing to just listen to other people, maybe they have to say something that will be useful now or in the future. You just took the advise that was convenient for you and threw everything else in the garbage, saying it was hostile and prejudiced. Anyway, good luck.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

This is indeed a valid point for me.

 

I am aware of the conversations she had prior to being discovered as I have had access to various email and txt exchanges and the content of those conversations makes me optimistic about our relationship rather then pessimistic.

As to what she's saying now I am monitoring her communications closely to keep informed. It's a awful situation to feel that lack of trust but I feel I must have access to the complete picture. So far today nothing she has said to her friends has contradicted the feelings she has expressed to me directly.

 

What your wife was doing, living the single life while still married, would cause anyone in my group of friends to either flat out tell their friend it is wrong or at the very least avoid that friend due to being uncomfortable with the situation, especially at having to come into contact with the betrayed spouse, who is well liked.

 

What do you make of your wife's friends being so accepting, even casual, about her behavior?

[Owl]

OP, I want to reiterate a few points others have made.

 

First off, DO get tested for STD's immediately. If you're even considering the possibility of recovery with her, INSIST that she do so as well as one of your requirements to even consider staying with her.

 

Marriage counseling and individual counseling are going to be a must as well.

 

She's going to have to go through a LOT of work to rebuild your trust in her. It's going to take a LONG time, and will likely never be what it was.

 

She'll need a change of lifestyle, and a complete change of friends in order for her to become trustworthy as well.

 

What direction you go from here is up to you...it matters not to me if you divorce or reconcile.

 

I just recommend that whatever you do, do it with a gameplan on how to achieve your goals, and your eyes wide open.

[Snipercatt]

Das, the good news is that your wife admitted what she has done. Now comes the painful exploration, and unwinding, of WHY she permitted herself to do this.

 

Clearly, her friends are NOT friends of your marriage. There is no other way to look at it. One of the consequences of your wife's adultery is that she will have to rid herself of everything that isn't supportive of your marriage. Her friends have to go. Her activities that she engaged in that led to her adultery, has to go. And, so on.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

You're most welcome, and I didn't misunderstand your post.

 

It's not exactly true that the only difference between one day and the next is only thta "she got caught". If you read what other BS's, and I concur with this, the WS is caught, but also wakes up. Often this is the first time they see themselves for what they have done. The bubble, as Glass remarks, is burst, the fantasy reveals itself for what it was, and the WS is flooded with emotions. Not the same ones as the BS, but flooded none the less.

 

And I think "all of us" would be happier if you would refrain from using sarcasm against peoples OPINIONS that you do not share.

 

I post my opinions and let other people lost theirs and let the original posters decide for themselves what advice is useful or not. And yes you did misunderstand what I posted but my future posts only will be directed at the original poster, you can be free to tell him how much righter your opinions are than mine.

[Buckeye2]

I've found the level of hostility and prejudice from people here who simply do not believe the information they have been given to be incredible.

 

I think you reasons many posters (including myself) jumped to the sugar daddy explanation were the difference in your ages and your mature attitude (i.e. logical and sad instead of pi$$ed off). Sorry

[Iguanna]

I think you reasons many posters (including myself) jumped to the sugar daddy explanation were the difference in your ages and your mature attitude (i.e. logical and sad instead of pi$$ed off). Sorry

 

There is a reason this mentality exists. It's cause it's very common (more usual than uncommon) that this happens. If we were wrong he should have at least said "you are wrong" and not accuse us for hostility and prejudice. For me that's far from mature attitude. But anyway, I can't ask from anyone to act like I would have acted...

[harrybrown]

Is she going to change her friends, now that she is caught?

 

I think that the next time that you go out of town, she will be with her friends. I do not think that they are helpful to your marriage.

 

I hope your counselor helps, but if she does not change her boundaries, she will hurt you again.

 

So if you have her sign an agreement that if she cheats again, that the alimony, etc is more favorable to you.

 

How would she feel if you cheated? Does she want an open marriage and just did not inform you?

 

Sorry that you are having this rotten experience. I do not think that I could continue, I would have to file. Good luck. Expose to her parents.

[drifter777]

How to say this. Hmmm.

 

A WS goes out on a one night stand. Her BS is away for work. She has a gas. Hubby comes home, next month, same thing. A couple more trips, a couple more ONS. 3 ONS's over a 3 months. Suddenly hubby finds out and puts a stop to it.

That's one scenario.

 

A WS goes out on a ONS. Hubby finds out. They fight, they negotiate, they agree. Hubby goes on a trip, WS steps out again. Hubby finds out again, more discussion, more agreements. 3 ONS's in 5 months with each one discovered and each time no change in behaviour.

That's another.

 

A WS engages in a LTR with an AP and has sex 3 times a week over the course of 3 months. (36 times she has had sex, for example.) Husband finds out. Ends the A. NC etc. Scenario 3, for example.

 

What the **** does SERIAL CHEAT mean? What does it matter?

Scenario 1 is a serial cheat because she had multiple partners (say 3 times) but WS in scenario 3 is NOT a SERIAL CHEAT??? Which scenario would you prefer to have if you are the BS. I don't know about you but IM ALL FOR Scenario 1. She steps out, doesnt get caught, decides that she can do this again. IT's a child stealing from a cookie jar.

 

We read a lot in LS about cake-eating WS's, but what we don't talk about is COOKIE-CUTTING BS (double meaning intended!) analysis of infidelities and their solutions. And I think this is a serious issue here in LS.

There is no "better" scenario for the vast majority of BH's. Clearly A and B are both examples of serial cheating although B is more disgusting to me; but that's just an opinion.

 

As far as cookie-cutting, I have no idea what you are talking about so I don't know whether it's a serious issue on LS or not, but thanks for sharing.

[DasPope]

IM ALL FOR Scenario 1. She steps out, doesnt get caught, decides that she can do this again. IT's a child stealing from a cookie jar.

 

 

Whilst scenario 1 seems at this stage to be the closest to describing what had happened it was infrequent and random rather then habitual. The number of times I was in NYC for at least 1 or 2 nights a week while she was home in LA during the past two years would be over 100. The number of times she went out with friends while I was out of town would have been probably at least 50 or more. Some posters have inferred she was out having ONS many times but this is not the case.

Another thing I'd clear up is that her circle of friends is supportive and enabling of her behavior. Whilst some are rather blase about it her two closest friends have been very concerned and most helpful both post discovery and also prior in some communications I was privy too.

Currently we are in a situation where she knows what she did was wrong, she knew before she did it that it would hurt me if I found out and that she can't quite understand why she went ahead and did it anyway. She did say that after she did it the first time post marriage (The were incidents during our engagement I never knew about too ... as I said previously she has fully disclosed) that the second time was easier but she told me it felt like something that was completely removed from our life together and unrelated.

As for myself I am probably a little more angry about this situation then I was before as it appears there was no real reason (other then scenario 1) for it to occur which points to an obvious lack of respect that will require careful examination.

She has of course expressed regret and sorrow for her actions (mixed up with a bit of self pity I'm sure for getting that hand caught in the cookie jar) and the one thing I am in no doubt of is that she loves me very much and wants to make our marriage work.

I have no desire to be married to a person who is walking around on eggshells so I'm gonig to have to be proactive in getting her to stop apologizing and start thinking about the future. She is terrified I'm just going to divorce her and horrified about my daughters finding out.

Tomorrow is our first appointment with the counselor and then we are taking the weekend to go down to our vacation home to spend some time just sitting.

 

 

PS: what's a BS, WS, etc stand for ... ?

[aliveagain]

B S is betrayed spouse, you.

 

W S is wayward Spouse, her.

 

It is difficult for reconciliation to happen if she is not 100% remorseful, it is also next to impossible to re conciliate if she still has the same facilitators hanging around her as friends. You need to make your boundaries clear as well as the consequences that will happen if she breaks your boundaries. Draw your line in the sand and be ready to defend it, never move it or she will never take you seriously. We always recommend talking to a lawyer just so you understand your rights(I know you have an agreement in place but that didn't stop her betraying you). She is going to have to make you feel safe again, tell her what you need in order to stay in the marriage. If she is not willing to make these changes it's better you know now rather than later so you don't waste anymore time. Have her get tested(with you present) for all STD's. The humiliation she experiences getting tested will act as a future deterrent.

 

There are many things worse than divorce, sharing your wife with other men is one of them.

Edited February 14, 2014 by aliveagain

[Buckeye2]

I spoke with some young people today and they told me that their normal pattern was to go to a bar, meet someone and have sex. Then, if they really hit it off, they would go out on a date at a later time.

 

I think that with you on the other side of the country your wife felt single, went out with her girlfriends and resumed her comfortable familiar pattern.

 

To complicate matters, women tend to value the emotional aspect of a relationship more than the physical. Put another way, a woman is more upset about her husband loving another woman than having sex with her. Men are the opposite. Your wife is therefore being faithful to you in the aspect of the relationship that she feels is the most important (emotional i.e. never the same guy twice).

 

Being a woman she doesn’t fully understand the extent of why you’re upset. Sex just isn’t as important. She will think that she is making you feel better when she assures you that they were all just a piece of meat, not knowing that she is making things worse.

 

I think that young people having anonymous sex with so many makes cheating easier (i.e. if you have had sex with 100 strangers, what difference is 101).

 

I admit that I’m an old fart, but I think it’s better to have the date before the sex. Your wife knows what she did was wrong, but deep down it doesn’t seem that bad. It’s like having to obey a law that doesn’t make sense. "Yes officer, I did jaywalk but I've crossed that street 100 times before."

Edited February 14, 2014 by Buckeye2

[Snipercatt]

We can dig and dig to determine why a person does what they do.

 

The reality is they did what they WANTED to do, and what they thought they could get away with.

 

That's the brutal reality.

 

Das, your wife has been a serial cheater. Make sure that you each have a full battery of STD tests, now, and in 6 months. Some STDs take quite some time before the body develops the antibodies that show up in testing.

[Buckeye2]

We can dig and dig to determine why a person does what they do.

 

The reality is they did what they WANTED to do, and what they thought they could get away with.

 

That's the brutal reality.

 

I agree. My point is that it might be more difficult to get her to stop because she sees it as wrong but not terrible.

[Chi townD]

I may be off base here, but I'm just going to say it.

 

You were married to your wife; however, she wasn't married top you. To mean, she never fully committed to you or the marriage. It's evident when you said she did this stuff prior to taking your vows.

 

I realize that there is a massive age gap between the two of you. 20 years I think? I think it could be possible that she views you more as a father figure rather than a husband. That might be something that needs to be addressed in counseling.

 

Sorry you're here.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Whilst scenario 1 seems at this stage to be the closest to describing what had happened it was infrequent and random rather then habitual. The number of times I was in NYC for at least 1 or 2 nights a week while she was home in LA during the past two years would be over 100. The number of times she went out with friends while I was out of town would have been probably at least 50 or more. Some posters have inferred she was out having ONS many times but this is not the case.

Another thing I'd clear up is that her circle of friends is supportive and enabling of her behavior. Whilst some are rather blase about it her two closest friends have been very concerned and most helpful both post discovery and also prior in some communications I was privy too.

 

Did she do a lot of random hookups before you met? Also within her group of enabler friends... Any of them feel disrespectful towards you? Just like the posters here who assume things about your age gap... So too will people in real life.

 

If you travel that much she may not be getting enough attention from you. Some women can be damn near black holes for attention.

[DasPope]

Just a followup today went went to our counseling session (it felt very strange going there on valentines) it was quite difficult for me to talk openly while my wife seemed to want to get it all out fast. The counselor wants to see us both separately before having another session together and has given us some exercises to talk through in the meantime. Tonight we avoided the 405 madness and are now down at our vacation house for the weekend. Quiet, introspective and pensive had been the mood but today we both have a strong feeling that we want to do everything possible to get over this bump in the road. We are being fairly tentative with each other but we have been able to laugh about some things together and I still feel remarkable close to her. I am still angry,hurt, bewildered and a bit numb but I'm encouraged by the sense of resolve that we both seem to have to get through this. Tonight we have talked quite a bit about our relationship generally without straying too far into painful territory and I feel optimistic we can reconnect in the short term. I may not check back in here all that often but I appreciate the advice and thoughts you have given.

[DasPope]

I spoke with some young people today and they told me that their normal pattern was to go to a bar, meet someone and have sex. Then, if they really hit it off, they would go out on a date at a later time.

 

I think that with you on the other side of the country your wife felt single, went out with her girlfriends and resumed her comfortable familiar pattern.

 

To complicate matters, women tend to value the emotional aspect of a relationship more than the physical. Put another way, a woman is more upset about her husband loving another woman than having sex with her. Men are the opposite. Your wife is therefore being faithful to you in the aspect of the relationship that she feels is the most important (emotional i.e. never the same guy twice).

 

Being a woman she doesn’t fully understand the extent of why you’re upset. Sex just isn’t as important. She will think that she is making you feel better when she assures you that they were all just a piece of meat, not knowing that she is making things worse.

 

I think that young people having anonymous sex with so many makes cheating easier (i.e. if you have had sex with 100 strangers, what difference is 101).

 

I admit that I’m an old fart, but I think it’s better to have the date before the sex. Your wife knows what she did was wrong, but deep down it doesn’t seem that bad. It’s like having to obey a law that doesn’t make sense. "Yes officer, I did jaywalk but I've crossed that street 100 times before."

 

I think you have pretty much summed up the facts of the situation.

[DasPope]

Did she do a lot of random hookups before you met? Also within her group of enabler friends... Any of them feel disrespectful towards you? Just like the posters here who assume things about your age gap... So too will people in real life.

 

If you travel that much she may not be getting enough attention from you. Some women can be damn near black holes for attention.

 

 

Yes I believe that while not overly promiscuous for these days she indeed have a history of "random hookups" when she was single.

Her wide circle of friends (remembering we have many common circles of friends) are fairly neutral. I don't see her social circle as the issue.

She's really not much a attention seeking person, fairly low maintenance compared to my first wife or other women I have known.

[TobyBoy]

Make sure she's tested for std's and pregnancy. They always lie about using protection.