How to broach subject with wife?

[Yamaha]

she knew before she did it that it would hurt me if I found out and that she can't quite understand why she went ahead and did it anyway. She did say that after she did it the first time post marriage (The were incidents during our engagement I never knew about too ... as I said previously she has fully disclosed) that the second time was easier but she told me it felt like something that was completely removed from our life together and unrelated.

 

If she knew it would hurt you but did the action anyway, does that sound logical?

 

She has been cheating on you but only when you are away! Does this sound like someone who can't quite understand why she is behaving this way? Sounds like a pre-meditated action.

 

She says it was easier (to cheat) the second time she had sex with a stranger. The more partners the less guilt she felt. But she knew it would hurt you if you found out. Somehow her desire for sex with strangers outweighed her guilt or hurt to you.

 

She says her (single) life seemed completely removed from your life together and unrelated. I think she knows why she cheated and I hope she is honest with you when you find out. Having a duel life (and that is what she had) is not unheard of but the player usually goes to lengths to cover up said duel life. I would look for actions she has taken to cover and conceal her unrelated life.

 

You sound life you love your wife and want to do what you can to help her and build the trust she has destroyed. We don't always like the answers we discover. But it is better to hear the truth. You can deal with anything if you know the truth!

[beach]

Before Dday she lied. Omissions and outright lies.

After confronting her with the affairs she came clean on everything. As far as he is concerned, and I have no reason not to believe him, she is offering her truth. Your comments indicate you have not read what the OP has actually said, and said clearly, and with conviction.

 

So yes, he said she is telling him everything, and wants to change her behaviours, and she wants to salvage the marriage.

 

What is your point?

 

My point is - there hasn't been any truth throughout there M.

 

Evidence shows she was caught. She never OFFERED her truth!

 

She was sneaky and omitting BIG factors in a M that betrayed the OP.

 

You can't convince me that she offers truth - not yet! She discussed it AFTER she was caught = there is a BIG F*king difference between coming clean on your own and being found out and unable to explain where the truth is.

 

 

And I fully well understand what the OP has typed - stop correcting me like I'm a child!!!

 

I have way more experience with infidelity than you'd ever want to know.

 

 

The OP can overlook the fact that she's cheated the whole M - that's fine and dandy - but it will not bring about a trusting and intimate marriage if the root of WHY she lied and cheated isn't addressed!

 

I asked what his wife plans to DO - what is her part in this?

 

We know what the OP's role is - he's giving her a pass to see if she grows...I get that.

 

What are the expectations from both parties?

 

His wife PURPOSELY harmed him over and over again - trusting her starts behind the zero line because she's betrayed him this whole marriage. She has a lot of earning it back to DO.

 

Do you understand how much time and energy has to be spent finding new men to screw? Especially since she was able to keep it a secret from her husband.

 

She spent a LOT of time and energy seeking a thrill that she never meant for him to find out! She put his life at risk! I don't call that love! No way - no how!

 

Why did she marry if she INTENDED to be a serial cheater? I'd want to know! And why didn't she tell him ahead of time how trampy she REALLY was?

 

He married her! But she's NOT the gal he THOUGHT he was marrying!

 

She TOTALLY misrepresented herself!!!

 

There's not one thing that makes her trustworthy!

 

She never OFFER him what info was real! Not until she was backed into a corner - that is a woman with huge character effects at the core!

 

She has major work to sift through. Hopefully she can do some soul searching. Actions will show if she's changed - any of her words are meaningless right now based on what a great liar she's always been.

 

You want to argue about trust and truth sea view - well this woman doesn't even know what that looks like!

Edited February 20, 2014 by beach

[Friskyone4u]

Lots of dialogue here and good points. However, he is so in love with this woman she will get her way. She has been unable to remain faithful, doe sent want to, and he keeps rationalizing it because his heart is not in losing her.

 

None of the people stating the obvious are having any impact. Just wish him well

[beach]

If I worked a job and my boss told me I'd get paid every Friday; yet the first, second and third Fridays came without getting paid that would make me not trust my boss by his word.

 

I would have a decision to make based on past behavior vs the word/agreement that my boss broke.

 

I would decide that I work and don't get paid or I decide to go get a job and see if another boss pays me as we agreed.

 

If the second boss paid every time, on time, that boss is earning my trust based on actions matching his/her word and the agreement we made.

 

Based on history there's trust to be earned if I stayed working at the first job. I would find it hard to believe I would get paid every Friday until that happened consistently for a long time.

[DasPope]

She was sneaky and omitting BIG factors

 

Not really I never asked, she never told. Nothing sneaky went on. She wasn't going out without telling me.

 

 

The OP can overlook the fact that she's cheated the whole M - that's fine and dandy - but it will not bring about a trusting and intimate marriage if the root of WHY she lied and cheated isn't addressed!

 

It's hardly been overlooked. And the reasons why have been made pretty clear as well.

 

 

I asked what his wife plans to DO - what is her part in this?

 

I think its more about what she isn't going to do.

 

 

His wife PURPOSELY harmed him over and over again

 

Nope, she didn't purposely do anything to harm me it was a byproduct of her behavior.

 

Do you understand how much time and energy has to be spent finding new men to screw? Especially since she was able to keep it a secret from her husband.

 

Hmmmm ...with her I'd say about 15 secs after walking into a bar. She really didn't do much of anything to keep it secret at all she just never mentioned it and I never considered it. This is why I was able to find out so much about it so easily.

 

Why did she marry if she INTENDED to be a serial cheater? I'd want to know! And why didn't she tell him ahead of time how trampy she REALLY was?

I don't think she intended anything of the sort and the rest of your comments are patently offensive to me and do not merit a response.

 

He married her! But she's NOT the gal he THOUGHT he was marrying!

 

Yes she is. I checked, same person.

 

She TOTALLY misrepresented herself!!!

 

Nope, people don't represent themselves. They just are ...

 

 

She never OFFER him what info was real! Not until she was backed into a corner - that is a woman with huge character effects at the core!

I'm not sure I know what a character effect is ? I have never heard this term before.

 

Actions will show if she's changed

I'd say its the absence of action that will show evidence of change. Action was the problem in the first place.

 

- any of her words are meaningless right now based on what a great liar she's always been.

She's a crap liar ... which is probably why she's never told me one.

[beach]

Not really I never asked, she never told. Nothing sneaky went on. She wasn't going out without telling me.

 

 

 

 

It's hardly been overlooked. And the reasons why have been made pretty clear as well.

 

 

 

 

I think its more about what she isn't going to do.

 

 

 

 

Nope, she didn't purposely do anything to harm me it was a byproduct of her behavior.

 

 

 

Hmmmm ...with her I'd say about 15 secs after walking into a bar. She really didn't do much of anything to keep it secret at all she just never mentioned it and I never considered it. This is why I was able to find out so much about it so easily.

 

 

I don't think she intended anything of the sort and the rest of your comments are patently offensive to me and do not merit a response.

 

 

 

Yes she is. I checked, same person.

 

 

 

Nope, people don't represent themselves. They just are ...

 

 

 

I'm not sure I know what a character effect is ? I have never heard this term before.

 

 

I'd say its the absence of action that will show evidence of change. Action was the problem in the first place.

 

 

She's a crap liar ... which is probably why she's never told me one.

 

Oops - character defect. Defect of character.

 

Based on your ability to justify and minimize for her - you two should be fine.

 

It seems as if things are all ok for you now. Good luck with that.

 

You may benefit from reading other stories in the infidelity section to gain insight.

Edited February 20, 2014 by beach

[DasPope]

If it is his wish to improve his marriage he doesn't have to do that ONLY in MC, and can in fact start on working on reconnecting with his wife NOW. .

 

Yes the reconnecting has been constant, you know without the elephant in the room I'd say we have had a pretty darn good week together. I went to NYC yesterday ... no feeling of dread like I feared I'd have. I'm just not feeling the massive crisis stuff that other commentators here are as much anymore. I was last week ...but this week. Much calmer inside. Probably because we have spent so much time together. She's not walking on eggshells as much and I'm not slipping in attorney mode with her. I daresay it's been quite a pleasant week actually. Strange but true ...

[BHsigh]

I'm working on reconciling and I understand how hard it is, but I have to agree with others, it sounds like OP is rationalizing and minimizing for his wife. For one, he doesn't consider what she did to be sneaking around, for another he's arguing about her needing to take action to repair their marriage and arguing about her taking actions that hurt him, she already admitted that she new it would hurt him but did it anyways, it's clear cut that she purposefully hurt him, maybe indirectly of course, but she still knew that it would hurt.

 

It honestly looks like OP is burying his head in the sand, and that is sad to see, if he wants to reconcile then I am all for it, but not at this huge expense to himself.

 

OP, you do need to recognize that you may come out of this fog in time and be angry as can be. I hope that you do, I'm not pushing for you to leave her, but you should have taken my earlier advice to at least file, that would show her that you are serious. You're jsut quickly forgiving everything, has she faced any consequences at all?

[Iguanna]

You're jsut quickly forgiving everything, has she faced any consequences at all?

 

No. She's 20 years younger, that should be enough.

[BHsigh]

No. She's 20 years younger, that should be enough.

 

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I'm going to pretend that I didn't read that horrible thought, as if age proves anything.

[Iguanna]

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I'm going to pretend that I didn't read that horrible thought, as if age proves anything.

 

Well I'm being sarcastic, cause this is the main reason this man tries to minimize what his wife did and forgive her that easily.

[BHsigh]

Well I'm being sarcastic, cause this is the main reason this man tries to minimize what his wife did and forgive her that easily.

 

Ahh, my apologies then, I took it seriously, I agree with your sarcasm then.

[2sunny]

While looking at her behavior while married - I'd say she hasn't been trustworthy while married. That is based on the evidence that she was willing to continuously cheat without telling her husband.

 

She admitted it when confronted - but kept it hidden when he didn't yet know.

 

If OP is willing to forgive eaaily now, based on a few conversations - then that is his right if course.

 

For others to point out other valid plans to secure trust moving forward is offering ideas as to how to grow and make the marriage stronger while moving forward.

[Try]

I get exactly what you mean about the generational differentiation in attitudes and I'd agree it's played a part (is it even generational or is it just that women are more confident in treating hook ups like men have for many decades?).

Are you under the false impression that most women that get married from your wife's generation are serial cheaters? Many of the other posters on this site are part of your wife's generation, and I have never seen them give their spouse a pass for cheating, as if it were no big deal to cheat in this generation. Falsely blaming her cheating as a generational thing, keeps you from having to face up to addressing the real issues as to her cheating.

 

I think it was all best summed up with the hand in the cookie jar analogy. I don't think it went any further in her thinking then "meet guy, screw guy, ...oops I'm married now shouldn't have done that".

"oops"? Really? You think that her serial cheating was just a series of "oops"? I do not want to confuse you with the facts, but your wife is 28 and not 18, she knew exactly what she was saying when she made her marraige vows to you, and she knew exactly what she was doing when she cheated. It is called "cake eating" pure and simple. She gets the security and money of marraige to an older man, while still enjoying the fun and excitement of being single and having sex with men her own age.

 

It's only now when the repercussions have come home to roost that she's had a opportunity to realise the wider ramifications of even allowing herself to be put remotely near that situation in the first place. And of course that's been quite a devastating revelation for her to face up to about herself.

"Repercussions?" "Devastating revelation for her to face up to"? Other than you say the words, nothing that you have said supports this. After reading this thread the only word that comes jumping out at me is "denial".

 

I am sorry that you are here. You sound like a good person that only sees the best in people. Please do not have children with this woman until you have had a few years to think this through. If not for you, then for the sake of the children.

[2sunny]

This is the kind of discourse that essentially blinds people to the truth of a marriage, and subsequently the truth of an affair:

"hasn't been any truth throughout their M." (What do you know about the ENTIRETY of their M? Nothing.

"She TOTALLY misrepresented herself!!!"

"There's not one thing that makes her trustworthy! "

 

It's amazing that you can know more about this woman reading a single post in LS BETTER than the man who has been married to, living on a daily basis.

 

 

"You can't convince me that she offers truth" That's obvious. You seem to know everything about this A because, as you so humbly claim: "I have way more experience with infidelity than you'd ever want to know."

Wasn't aware that people's POV in LS was based on a sliding scale of quantitative experience with one's own A.

 

Have you ever entertained the idea that you are imposing your own massive experience in infidelity ONTO someone else's issues without knowing, if, in fact, it's appropriate to believe that your WS is a clone of his?

 

 

I am working with the info the OP has given for this situation...that refers to her consistent behavior that represents that she has cheated consistently since they have been married.

 

The info and suggestions offered don't require anyone to agree.

 

The OP obviously has his plan and I certainly hope his plan goes well.

 

 

I do believe in forgiveness - based on actions that change from past behavior and evidence from the past. At this early stage words mean little.

 

I think time will tell if she is willing to change.

 

 

OP - what plan has been agreed to while you travel now? How is she planning to put your mind at ease while you're away and traveling?

Edited February 20, 2014 by 2sunny

[DasPope]

 

 

OP - what plan has been agreed to while you travel now? How is she planning to put your mind at ease while you're away and traveling?

 

 

Other then regular contact and disclosure by her about her activities and whereabouts I don't believe that there is really is anything she could do or say to put my mind at ease, She is aware of that and understands that there will always be the doubt in my mind until we build a new level of understanding that I'm comfortable with. So while I'm away (I cannot avoid it) my mind will not be at ease regardless so I've had to take steps to ensure I'm aware of everything that is going on. This might be unwarranted and I feel awful about it but it's something I have to do for my own sanity and protection.

[beach]

Other then regular contact and disclosure by her about her activities and whereabouts I don't believe that there is really is anything she could do or say to put my mind at ease, She is aware of that and understands that there will always be the doubt in my mind until we build a new level of understanding that I'm comfortable with. So while I'm away (I cannot avoid it) my mind will not be at ease regardless so I've had to take steps to ensure I'm aware of everything that is going on. This might be unwarranted and I feel awful about it but it's something I have to do for my own sanity and protection.

 

That sounds smart.

 

It sounds as though you are having someone keeping tabs on her - and I think she would expect that this early in discovery.

 

Is she seeing the counselor this week?

 

Have you both been tested for diseases yet? I hope you are cleared without any issues.

[DasPope]

That sounds smart.

 

It sounds as though you are having someone keeping tabs on her - and I think she would expect that this early in discovery.

 

Is she seeing the counselor this week?

 

Have you both been tested for diseases yet? I hope you are cleared without any issues.

 

Yes we are both seeing the counselor this week both separately and then together next Friday.

There are no diseases ...that would be awful.

[BHsigh]

I hope it works out DasPope, I apologize if it seems that I take a pretty hard line, I do believe and support reconciliation, I'm going through it myself. It just seems that you went too easy on her to me, but if you're comfortable with you plan, then that's all that matters.

 

One thought though, do you know what you are going to do if you find any undisclosed information or any more indiscretions occur? And does she understand what the repercussions will be from now on, you don't want her thinking that she can keep getting away with it again. You both need to know how serious it will be and you should have a plan in place, just in case.

[beach]

I hope it works out DasPope, I apologize if it seems that I take a pretty hard line, I do believe and support reconciliation, I'm going through it myself. It just seems that you went too easy on her to me, but if you're comfortable with you plan, then that's all that matters.

 

One thought though, do you know what you are going to do if you find any undisclosed information or any more indiscretions occur? And does she understand what the repercussions will be from now on, you don't want her thinking that she can keep getting away with it again. You both need to know how serious it will be and you should have a plan in place, just in case.

 

Commonly referred to as a healthy boundary. If/when it is crossed = swift and harsh consequences.

 

Best to map it out clearly "if you do a b c d or e - these consequences will occur immediately" then list consequences.

 

Best if she knows what she will lose if she cheats or lies (even by omitting her truth).

 

Have you been open and clear with her on those things?

[Running Man]

All this therapy to realize that's she is a cheater that just wants to bone guys her own age while having the father figure safe guy at home to cuddle with. You cant rationalize with a selfish person because they don't truly care. They fake it because its expected of them or to save some face. Its easy sleep for her at night.

 

Spock (Das Pope). You can analyze, dissect, compartmentalize the $h!t sandwich that's been shoved in your mouth all you want, but there has to be a time when you either spit it out in order to clean out your mouth or swallow it and make yourself sick.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

How many 45-year-olds WITHOUT money do you know who date or marry 25-year-olds? I've seen plenty of 45-year-old CEOs marry their 25-year-old secretaries, or some other young hottie. I don't think I have ever seen the 45-year-old maintenance man or security guard do it. I do not know if the 45-year-old CEOs or the 25-year-old hotties ever thought it was anything other than true love. If they did, none of them ever let on to me. A lot of other people may have thought money had something to do with it, but the older guy and younger woman involved never seemed to, at least as far as I could tell.

 

I also have never heard of any of these much younger wives cheating on their husbands so frequently and casually as is the case in this situation. Infidelity seemed to be at about the same rate in these older guy-younger woman couples as in other couples where they were closer in age. So I would tend to believe the age difference or any possible financial difference DOES NOT have that much to do with the cheating in this case.

 

I am a little surprised how the original poster seems to view this situation. One person posted "She was sneaky and omitting BIG factors" to which the original poster responded "Not really I never asked, she never told. Nothing sneaky went on. She wasn't going out without telling me." That left me scratching my head. He thought it was "not really" sneaky that she was out cheating on him because he never asked and she never told. My wife cheated on me, and I thought it was sneaky, even though, just like the original poster, I never asked and she never told. So I guess I just have a different outlook than the original poster on what we consider sneaky.

[thummper]

Just a followup today went went to our counseling session (it felt very strange going there on valentines) it was quite difficult for me to talk openly while my wife seemed to want to get it all out fast. The counselor wants to see us both separately before having another session together and has given us some exercises to talk through in the meantime. Tonight we avoided the 405 madness and are now down at our vacation house for the weekend. Quiet, introspective and pensive had been the mood but today we both have a strong feeling that we want to do everything possible to get over this bump in the road. We are being fairly tentative with each other but we have been able to laugh about some things together and I still feel remarkable close to her. I am still angry,hurt, bewildered and a bit numb but I'm encouraged by the sense of resolve that we both seem to have to get through this. Tonight we have talked quite a bit about our relationship generally without straying too far into painful territory and I feel optimistic we can reconnect in the short term. I may not check back in here all that often but I appreciate the advice and thoughts you have given.

 

 

Wow! That's the first time I've heard of a series of multi-adulterous short-term affairs referred to simply as "a bump in the road." That's coming ever so close to rug sweeping.

[thummper]

Other then regular contact and disclosure by her about her activities and whereabouts I don't believe that there is really is anything she could do or say to put my mind at ease, She is aware of that and understands that there will always be the doubt in my mind until we build a new level of understanding that I'm comfortable with. So while I'm away (I cannot avoid it) my mind will not be at ease regardless so I've had to take steps to ensure I'm aware of everything that is going on. This might be unwarranted and I feel awful about it but it's something I have to do for my own sanity and protection.

 

 

Amen, brother. Like you said, trust but verify. You said you weren't interested in hiring a PI, so I for one am curious what steps you're taking to ensure that you are aware.

[BHsigh]

Wow! That's the first time I've heard of a series of multi-adulterous short-term affairs referred to simply as "a bump in the road." That's coming ever so close to rug sweeping.

 

 

 

You're being extremely generous, I would have said that he shot past rug sweeping already.