My BF's brother raped my roommate

[Tayla]

-Desillusioned about his brother whom he loves and trusts

-Having to choose between family and GF

-Seeing his relationship fall apart

-Stigmitization for something out of his control, hell, see all the responses on this forum for evidence of stigmitization

-Guilt he invited his brother to the party

-Guilt that a family member could do this

-Having no control of this situation whatsoever

 

Need I continue?

 

I never said she can not be angry.

 

Besides the above, there is a blatant disregard for the roommates wishes, Hell, don't you think SHE SHOULD BE THE ONE TO DECIDE HOW TO PROCEED.

 

Ugh... going to stop writing now as now I am getting angry.

 

You make valid and rational perspectives. I think you are missing that here in american we have a duty to report a crime. We are just as guilty if we turn our heads and look the other way. The OP is doing just that to a large extent as far as the crime ( act) itself. She is sidestepping the issue of what is the real dilema. Should she take her friend to the station or should she just cast judgement that is unhealthy. She sounds young and nieve as to what her civil duties are. I stand in questionablity as to the validity that a person who was raped would go out and have lunch with the chap...that part is bizarre....

[Keenly]

You make valid and rational perspectives. I think you are missing that here in american we have a duty to report a crime. We are just as guilty if we turn our heads and look the other way. The OP is doing just that to a large extent as far as the crime ( act) itself. She is sidestepping the issue of what is the real dilema. Should she take her friend to the station or should she just cast judgement that is unhealthy. She sounds young and nieve as to what her civil duties are. I stand in questionablity as to the validity that a person who was raped would go out and have lunch with the chap...that part is bizarre....

 

If you are referencing the good Samaritan laws, they are unconstitutional.

[Grumpybutfun]

Why is the bf unwilling to speak of this?

G

[meghann8]

Thank you. Yes, I am very naive and I do not know everything on what is civilly or legally correct. That's why I'm here. I'm trying to get answers before I make anything official with police reports or alarming professional staff. Again, I know I'm making mistakes as I go along, but I really am trying with the information I have and what I think is best.

 

If my roommate doesn't want to talk about it, she won't talk about it. I just hope she isn't blaming herself or taking any responsibility for the rape itself.

 

I skirted around the subject a couple nights ago by bringing up a recent James Taranto article regarding rape in college. (It's a disgusting article saying women are just as responsible for rape as men when both parties are drunk. It's a great indicator that this is the mentality in our rape culture today. I hope every woman and man is aware of this and puts an end to this victim blaming and second guessing the victim.) She asked me to send it to her, so I did. I know she read it. She also has a best friend that I'm 100% sure she's talking to, so it's not like she's going WITHOUT any support at all. She knows I'm the blunt, strong individual who'll do anything for her and I'm guessing she just wants to move on instead of dwell on the subject for months. It's not what I would do (I'd bring the dbag to court), but it's ultimately her decision.

 

As far as the BF is concerned, I'm sure he's going through some inner turmoil on this subject. I want him to do what is best for him. I'd never ask him to choose between me or the brother. That sounds like mental abuse right there. I understand unconditional love. Yes, his family has a pretty messed up past, but I like him for who he is in the present day. His past shaped him into the person he is today, so I'm simply not going to judge him on that.

 

You're right, having my bf in the apartment is disgusting and continuing to harm my roommate mentally, even if she says she's okay and is fine with the BF being there. This will stop, I can promise you that. That's an excellent next step, so thank you for that.

[meghann8]

Yes, his family has a pretty messed up past, but I like him for who he is in the present day. His past shaped him into the person he is today, so I'm simply not going to judge him on that.

 

I want to correct this. Some things simply cannot be forgotten or excused. Before his brother raped my roommate, I knew his family had an ugly past and I don't know what all happened, but, from what I have been told, it was the past and I liked him for who he showed me. After the rape, I've just been a roller coaster of emotion. When I'm with him, I'm happy. When I'm not, I'm boiling over how terrible his brother is, how he betrayed my trust, abused his invitation into my apartment, and most importantly, raped someone. I also feel like I'm a victim to this, a warranted feeling or not. This has put a huge strain on my relationship with both my BF AND my roommate. I don't want to hurt either of them, but I still want what's right and just because that's just who I am to the core. Emotion has driven my actions more than I'd like because I have two relationships involved in this (I would have just gone to the police if it was me who was raped).

 

I have had professional help in the past with PTSD, so I know resources exist. The problem with rapists is that they tend to be repeat offenders...I'm going to talk to a professional for legal steps. I'll tell my roommate first though. I'll let you all know how that goes.

[OpheliaSong]

Why is the bf unwilling to speak of this?

G

 

I am stumped on this too....why does he say he doesn't want to talk about it? He doesn't want to get involved? He got involved when he let his brother, who he obviously knew had some issues, around you and your roommate. If my brother or sister were creeps or possibly rapists, I sure as heck wouldn't let them around my gf and her roommate. Why does everyone assume that the roommate lied to the OP if the brother bought a morning after pill? This is bogus.....

If I was dating a guy who let someone in my space who he knew was like this, he wouldn't be my bf anymore, you need to find out what he knew and what he knows now. These guys that are like the bf didn't do anything also probably thinks that if two people get drunk it is okay for a guy to stick it in a passed out girl which it isn't. Ever. So tired of the victim blaming made by guys who just think guys are just like them and wouldn't do something like that...uh, some guys are creeps who look for opportunity to rape people.

[sidney2718]

Forget your relationship drama for a minute. Let's focus on what's important here. How is your roommate? Don't tell me she's fine. She's not. Has she seen a rape crisis counselor? She needs to. You have to encourage her to talk about what happened. that person -- a trained professional -- can talk to her about pressing charges or not.

 

 

Now since you already said you can see & know the differences between your BF & his evil brother, my Q is what did your BF mean when he cut you off & said he never wants to discuss his brother with you? If he meant that he knows his brother is horrible, that's one thing. If he meant that he won't talk about it because he doesn't want you to bad mouth his brother, yes, I think you need to show him the door too. Not because of what his brother did but because he's trying to excuse criminal behavior.

 

 

How is your roommate going to react when your BF comes over? If that is going to freak her out you may have a difficult road ahead.

 

I agree. We have a societal problem here. If the brother had killed the roommate, everybody's needed response would be clear. But the crime wasn't murder, it was rape. And as often happens in our society if the crime is reported, the victim is further victimized, quizzed about her sex life, and made to appear that she asked to be raped.

Still, if she' reported it, again everyone's needed response would be clear.

 

But she doesn't want to report it. And I can't blame her for that though I disagree. But the boyfriend is behaving very badly here. He and his family have a serious problem. They are harboring a criminal. Yes, it is that simple.

 

If the OP and her boyfriend go on to a longer relationship, what happens when the brother attempts to rape HER?

[Tayla]

If you are referencing the good Samaritan laws, they are unconstitutional.

Please provide your current references by state in which such is unconstitutional. I respectfully disagree with your broad comment, be specific. Thank you.

[Radu]

 

As far as the BF is concerned, I'm sure he's going through some inner turmoil on this subject. I want him to do what is best for him. I'd never ask him to choose between me or the brother. That sounds like mental abuse right there. I understand unconditional love. Yes, his family has a pretty messed up past, but I like him for who he is in the present day. His past shaped him into the person he is today, so I'm simply not going to judge him on that.

 

You're right, having my bf in the apartment is disgusting and continuing to harm my roommate mentally, even if she says she's okay and is fine with the BF being there. This will stop, I can promise you that. That's an excellent next step, so thank you for that.

 

Right ... maybe it's the cynic in me, but this relationship won't go on much longer.

[meghann8]

Everyone: the brother is a rapist. No, he didn't jump out of a bush and attack her. Yes, she was drunk. Does any of that matter? Absolutely not. Rape is rape. The people on here who are questioning this make me sick.

[Radu]

I agree. We have a societal problem here. If the brother had killed the roommate, everybody's needed response would be clear. But the crime wasn't murder, it was rape. And as often happens in our society if the crime is reported, the victim is further victimized, quizzed about her sex life, and made to appear that she asked to be raped.

What is this perfect world where someone can just go to the Police and say 'that person raped me', only to have that person locked up without checking if the report is true or not.

What is this world, in which evidence, and a proper defense become 'inconvenient' for the accuser ?

 

Still, if she' reported it, again everyone's needed response would be clear.

 

But she doesn't want to report it. And I can't blame her for that though I disagree. But the boyfriend is behaving very badly here. He and his family have a serious problem. They are harboring a criminal. Yes, it is that simple.

 

If the OP and her boyfriend go on to a longer relationship, what happens when the brother attempts to rape HER?

We have a 3rd party's version of the events.

Maybe she feels the way you say, maybe she doesn't ... maybe she just wants to forget it.

This thread was not started by someone who 'got raped', this thread was started by someone who heard that someone got raped.

 

The bf will not be a problem much longer; this event has brought to surface other issues, issues which will kill their relationship anyway.

[Radu]

Ok, maybe it's time i stopped being passive-agressive and actually stated my opinion.

 

Well, my opinion is that some of the replies in this thread disgust me, and i'll be nice enough to break them down into the two main ideas :

1 - some of you want many in this thread [or reading this thread] to grab pitchforks and torches made of ink and go about slaughtering this guy.

Some even say that it is wrong to question the accuser.

In what world ?

When a crime is comitted and reported, it is investigated regardless of feelings because in a just society, a case must be made before a judge, who will then pass a sentence [or help a jury in finding a sentence].

In a normal society, ppl are assumed innocent until found guilty.

This is why we tried Nazi leaders, serial killers and big time dictators.

Obviously the feelings of a woman take priority even above those that have killed millions, because hey ... someone might 'feel' bad.

Well, bunk those feelings.

 

What about the many fake allegations that have come up over the yrs, like the Duke University allegations [many guys had their futures messed up over the word of a woman who had the DNA of maaaaaaany men on her panties], what about that black guy who was in the news last yr who spent 7yrs in prison on a 'victim's word, who later admitted on FB that she made the whole thing up because her 'feelings' got hurt when rejected, and she did not want to give back the 6 figure cash settlement she got from the school. That guy lost his future, he didn't go to college and he was very promising in sports.

I'm sure i could dredge up more stuff, like the wave of child and DV allegations that are taking place in Canada/UK in child custody cases.

A guy on this very forum was attacked viciously in his yard by his wife who then made false allegations in court; there was another guy a few yrs back who was still trying to get rape charges against him removed from the record [proven false many times over], and have his wife punished for perjury.

 

If you are a woman, and you say 'that guy raped me', the person in question is screwed for life [if he cares about his future; if he is a real rapist he will most likely never care anyway], even if he is not found guilty ... and you want more ?; you want to remove even the need for evidence before he is shipped off to prison ?

The words 'he raped me' hold such immense power, guys and girls will rally up behind them and eject that individual from society even in the off chance that he is found not guilty. For some of these ppl, no ammount of evidence will prove that they are without guilt, so this will never go away.

 

2 - i've been reading the OP's posts here, and i hate to say this, but i get the feeling that she chose her fellow woman over her boyfriend.

She is not in her bf's side, and that spells disaster for any LTR.

If what is said about the bf is true, and he is a nice person, then he must be in hell right now, being pulled apart by a huge number of ideas without knowing what he should do :

- his brother might be guilty, it's probable that his brother doesn't go home and say 'mom, dad, bro, i just raped another girl' ... 'good for you son'. So he probably doesn't know for sure that he did this.

- his gf is favoring the roommate, so his very existence is troublesome for her ... so adios relationship soon

- maybe he should go to the Police, but what can he say to them ?

- if he does go to the Police, he will still lose the girlfriend, but he will most deffinitely lose his family [they tend to stick together]

 

All of this landed in his lap, and he probably has no idea what he should do.

And to top it off, it's the worst possible rape to prove, the one who sits in a grey area ... who to believe, it's a RL Rashomon.

 

The OP states that she wants the bf to do what is best for him, but just a little later she clearly expects him to side with her and her roommate ... some choice.

 

Nothing personal OP, but this is why i believe your relationship with this guy is over ... you are just not compatible [and i'm not saying it with any malice].

 

PS: This might inflame some ppl further, but reputation is important.

If everything else equal, 2 girls go to the Police to report the same type of rape, one who is the most promiscous girl on campus who is seen often getting drunk at parties, sleeps with tons of ppl, etc ... and another who is not doing this ... the the 2nd girl is more likely to be believed by the Police.

Like it or not, but reputation counts.

That's one of the reasons why Police goes after hardened criminals first when trying to find out who comitted a certain crime.

It's why certain jobs are inaccesible to certain ppl, and it's why some ppl keep getting rejected when asking ppl out on dates.

[Keenly]

Please provide your current references by state in which such is unconstitutional. I respectfully disagree with your broad comment, be specific. Thank you.

 

After a quick Google search, I can not find a single law requiring you to help anyone at anytime. Being that there is no law for this, I can give you proof that the law is unconstitutional because the law doesn't exist.

 

What DOES exist are good Samaritan laws that prevent the assisted victim from suing the Samaritan. That's all I found.

 

 

Think about it... if you were FORCED to help people, it would be a law that would use the legal system to force you into situations in which you could potentially experience harm, injury, or death. They can't write a law to make you do something dangerous.

[Tayla]

After a quick Google search, I can not find a single law requiring you to help anyone at anytime. Being that there is no law for this, I can give you proof that the law is unconstitutional because the law doesn't exist.

 

What DOES exist are good Samaritan laws that prevent the assisted victim from suing the Samaritan. That's all I found.

 

 

Think about it... if you were FORCED to help people, it would be a law that would use the legal system to force you into situations in which you could potentially experience harm, injury, or death. They can't write a law to make you do something dangerous.

 

Ohh dear, Refuting is not exactly valid in a law case validation. Go back to Law 101 and look up Samaritan laws, they actually DO exist. Go read your homework - Good Samaritan law

 

This OP though is responsible only in the case that she would have to have FIRST HAND Witness or knowledge of the crime.

Which btw has NOTHING to do with the Samaritan law.

 

And yes Laws are written all the time that are dangerous, its a matter of which side of the fence you are on.....

[Keenly]

Ohh dear, Refuting is not exactly valid in a law case validation. Go back to Law 101 and look up Samaritan laws, they actually DO exist. Go read your homework - Good Samaritan law

 

This OP though is responsible only in the case that she would have to have FIRST HAND Witness or knowledge of the crime.

Which btw has NOTHING to do with the Samaritan law.

 

And yes Laws are written all the time that are dangerous, its a matter of which side of the fence you are on.....

 

"They are intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death"

 

The law has absolutely nothing to do with mandatory reporting of a crime because you saw it or knew of it happening. Just like I said, which was my entire point.

 

She is under zero obligation to report or discuss anything with anyone. Any law otherwise is a violation of the first amendment and the fifth amendment and thus, unconstitutional.

[meghann8]

I don't stand for any of this slut shaming going on here. A girl's sexuality when she's passed out drunk and getting raped by a guy is no excuse for him to get off the hook. None of you know who my roommate is nor who she really is, so how dare any of you to think she is a slut for being in a position to get raped. Again, you disgust me. Rape is rape. End of story.

 

Moving on, I talked to my roommate yesterday. She doesn't want to talk about it. Okay got it, I'm really sorry to bring it up again. I'm dropping it. That was the end of that. There's nothing she wants me to do, so I'll follow her lead.

 

I also talked to my boyfriend last night. He didn't really know what to say (I didn't expect him to go into hero mode or anything), but he asked if she was alright and admitted that his brother was no good. He also said that his past has numbed him from this type of stuff (his mother was beaten and raped by the father). I simply told him that if the brother had done that to me, I would be pressing charges. I also said that the brother got very lucky that he chose a woman he could manipulate so awfully. I told him if we continued to stay together, family events will come up and that I'd most likely have to see the brother again. I said I'd be as civil as possible, but really never wanted to speak to him again. I'll never forgive nor forget his behavior that night. My bf took that information and didn't get mad or angry or upset..he just seemed numb to it all.

 

I apologized that it had to be this way, but no one deserved this terrible situation and I had to tell him what all was going on with my roommate and myself. I also apologized for sending any anger his way because he didn't deserve any of it.

 

We ended the night with hours of talk about our lives and what we wanted to do in the future. We just completely dropped the conversation about the brother and my roommate once there was nothing else to say. There was nothing else to say about it, really. We just comforted each other, both feeling hurt by the whole situation and just at a loss for the next step.

 

He's not going to send a loved one to prison, and I can accept that in a really f'd up way. I really don't want this to be the reason why we break up. I don't know what really will happen if that day comes. It hurts to think about it. Unless something crazy happens, then yeah, I guess, but it's unlikely. We do work well together and we push each other to be better individuals and strive for our goals. Our partner's win feels like a win of our own. It was my fault for hiding this information and boiling over it for so long. I wish it didn't have to be like that, but I'm glad I didn't wait any longer than I already did.

 

I don't really know what to say now or how to edit this. This is what happened and how I felt after. I may change up my wording or maybe my views here or there if people bring up good criticisms or questions, so I guess I'll just wait for further input. All questions, comments, criticisms are welcome. I only ask that you don't question whether or not it was rape. It's getting old. Thanks for reading and helping out.

[Radu]

No one has questioned weather or not an act described as it was described is rape.

 

However, for a sentence to be passed [from a legal pov], you need proof.

That means that this needs to be investigated.

Once enough proof is found, it can then be prosecuted [by this point the criminal act is alleged, not proven].

It becomes proven [and it's existence accepted by society] in the court of law, where a sentence is also passed.

 

The reason this type of rape sits in a grey area [as someone mentioned] is because proof for it is hard to find.

There usually is no physical proof [marks, bruises, forced entry, ripped clothes, someone desperately yelling 'NO'], on which to build a case.

So you have to go on testimony alone, on witnesses that can corroborate a hypothesis and ... on reputation, on past behaviour [of the accused ... past behaviour of the accuser is what the defense will use].

In this case, your testimony would help a lot [of what you told the guy beforehand], as would the testimony of the ppl who saw her passed out at the party.

I suspect though, that with a good lawyer he might still walk away.

Maybe this factored in her decision to not report it, maybe she is still numb to it ... i really don't know, but i would definitely have reported it if i was in her case.

 

I really don't understand how proving a crime instead of relying 100% on the word of a victim, is slut shaming, please show me what i'm missing.

 

In regards to your bf, maybe i've been too hasty, and maybe it will work out between the two of you.

Don't actually push for this [or ask for it], but if he realizes how messed up his family is and decides on his own to divorce them completely ... you might just have a keeper there.

[lollipopspot]

i've been reading the OP's posts here, and i hate to say this, but i get the feeling that she chose her fellow woman over her boyfriend.

She is not in her bf's side, and that spells disaster for any LTR.

 

What is "her bf's side?" He seems to have not much to say about it. In your opinion, what would be the correct girlfriend stance here? Pretend nothing at all happened, like the bf is doing?

[sidney2718]

I don't stand for any of this slut shaming going on here. A girl's sexuality when she's passed out drunk and getting raped by a guy is no excuse for him to get off the hook. None of you know who my roommate is nor who she really is, so how dare any of you to think she is a slut for being in a position to get raped. Again, you disgust me. Rape is rape. End of story.

 

Moving on, I talked to my roommate yesterday. She doesn't want to talk about it. Okay got it, I'm really sorry to bring it up again. I'm dropping it. That was the end of that. There's nothing she wants me to do, so I'll follow her lead.

 

I've cut down the quote, but the entire post is worth reading. I only want to make one point: anyone who has sex with someone too drunk to call for help should be judged guilty of rape. Period. Sex isn't symmetrical and it almost always occurs where there are no third parties around. So the onus is on women NOT to get smashed and on guys to not force the issue when the woman is obviously smashed. If they do, they are guilty. Period.

[sidney2718]

I would add that women who press charges can face jury trials in which every sexual adventure she ever had will be brought up and made public in a way intended to make her seem like a slut.

 

Attacking the rapist's actions does no good because REAL MEN are supposed to act that way and take sex that they claim is offered to them.

 

The result is that trials almost always fail to convict the rapist, but leave the woman with a destroyed reputation.

 

And yes, I know that there are false allegations against men by some women. But that's not the point here.

[ThatMan]

I do not intend to tell you what to do. But I do think it's a good idea to highlight some options.

 

 

• You could physically walk into a police station to speak with someone right away to figure out an appropriate course of action.
  
• You could also call local hospitals and universities to inquire about crisis support lines.
  
• Any information you gather may be freely offered to the roommate.
  
• It would also be a good idea to speak with a person with training in these matters to determine what course of action would be most helpful to her.
  

Please...

I ask that you please be a friend to this roommate. Friends do not get angry with each other when someone does not wish to discuss a traumatic and painful topics which are tender. You seemed outright angry with her in some of your messages when she did not talk freely and openly about the rape. I'm not there and I do not know what happened. But I know that I feel angry about it as well, even though I'm not directly involved, and it's okay to be angry about what happened. I think that it's important to think about how that anger is used. I ask that you be willing to see beyond your own pain and frustrations to focus more on how she is feeling instead. She doesn't need judgement, criticism, scorn, or anger. Patience and availability to simply be there will help anyone in a difficult place in life.

Edited February 16, 2014 by ThatMan

[meghann8]

I never felt angry towards my roommate. I was frustrated, but definitely not angry. My roommate and I are very different. I'm incredibly blunt and say what I need/want, and she is on the shy side and doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I understand these differences and have worked with her in the past accordingly.

 

At this point, we are not taking any further steps for legal action. As much as I'd like to put that man behind bars, I have no rights here and my roommate does not want this to happen. She blames herself and I wish she'd stop.

 

In court, it's terrible that we try to paint the woman like a slut and the man like a stud for overpowering another human being. That's where support and knowledge come in. We as a society need to reinforce that "no means no, and no response means no" phrase until everyone gets it. We all need to look out for our friends at parties and drunken nights. We need to know the wishes of those friends before alcohol is involved. Both men and women should hold their friends back from a potential rape situation. This will save a lot of time and worry and aggravation for all parties involved.

 

In my particular case, the sex was premeditated and he knew what he was doing. He had a beer or two that night, but he was not drunk. He knew she was the perfect prey. I did what I could that night to help her, but it clearly wasn't enough. I had no idea the brother was capable of such violence, but now I do.

 

My next actions will be to move on and not dwell on this situation. I will continue to be a supporter for rape victims and a voice for women's rights. If my bf wants to talk more about that night or anything, I'll gladly listen and be a support for him. If my roommate wants to talk to me about anything, I'll of course be there for her. And I want to thank all of you for being here to support me and give me advice. I really appreciate it and I hope this thread has helped all of you learn what to do if a similar situation ever happens again.