Difficulty in Dealing with the Sex Issue

[Iguanna]

In her eyes, you're a provider, not a lover

 

she merely settled for him...

 

Why is settling bad? I don't get it. We settle every day for serious and not serious stuff. We compromise, we pretend to enjoy something while we don't, we pretend to like someone while we don't, we want to make more money but compromise with less, our lives is full of compromises, but at the end of the day the settling we do is our choice, we wouldn't settle for something disastrous for us (for example abusive spouse, dangerous friend, illegal job etc). Is it so bad that this woman has thought to herself "ok this guy is loving, caring, he will always take care of me and our kids, he will not cheat, he will not hit me, he will do his best to make me happy, my family and friends adore him, but he is not THAT good in bed, but I will settle for this cause I can't lose all the above"? Don't all people settle when choosing the person to get married to? Are all men and women that perfect that nobody compromises? I'm a woman and I value 10000 times more a provider than a lover. I know a man wants to be both in a maximum way, but if he lacks in the second field, I can live with that.

 

And to peruano: No, compromising with a mediocre sex life does not mean one day this woman will cheat, not necessarily. When you are old enough and mature enough to make the decision to live your life with less satisfying sex life, you don't jump to the first bed you find, cause you honor your decision.

[peruano99]

And to peruano: No, compromising with a mediocre sex life does not mean one day this woman will cheat, not necessarily. When you are old enough and mature enough to make the decision to live your life with less satisfying sex life, you don't jump to the first bed you find, cause you honor your decision.

 

 

About 50 % of affairs I have seen have happened because of either the man or the woman in the relationship were not happy with the sex life or how they were treated.

[Iguanna]

About 50 % of affairs I have seen have happened because of either the man or the woman in the relationship were not happy with the sex life or how they were treated.

 

But if you have knowingly made the choice to stay despite the fact that sex is not satisfying (I mean if this doesn't change suddenly throughout the marriage), then it would be stupid and immature to break your own vows to yourself and cheat. It's like being a vegetarian by choice and suddenly you decide that it's a bad thing to be a vegetarian, you break the promises you made with yourself and start eating meat like crazy. You get my point?

[BeholdtheMan]

Why is settling bad? I don't get it. We settle every day for serious and not serious stuff. We compromise, we pretend to enjoy something while we don't, we pretend to like someone while we don't

 

Settling for someone and not finding someone perfect are two different things. Everyone has imperfections...that's not really the issue.

 

You're also drawing flawed analogies between something as life-changing as marriage and mundane stuff.

 

Sure, I can "settle" for a cup of cheap coffee when I really want a cup of premium coffee. That's not a lifelong commitment on which my long-term happiness depends

 

"Settling" for a woman I'm barely attracted to on a physical level (i.e. marrying her) is something I'd be foolish to do

[Iguanna]

If you're going to settle for guy sexually, at least have the courtesy to tell him. Let him find someone that he can satisfy.

 

It's selfish to get into a marriage without telling your partner of these very serious issues. No man or woman wants to marry someone who doesn't even enjoy having sex with them.

 

You are jumping into conclusions. I never said to stay in a marriage with someone "who doesn't even enjoy having sex with". I said that if I had to choose between a nice guy with mediocre sex and a bad guy with amazing sex I'd settle for the first guy and be damn happy with it.And no, I don't believe I'd have to tell him and hurt his feelings. We settle every day but we aren't 100% honest with it. Do you tell your boss every day "man I find you terrible but I stay in your job cause I need the money"? Do you tell your wife every day "I wish you could cook better cause I kinda hate your food but I don't have anywhere else to eat so I eat your ****"? Do you tell your friend every day "I consider you naive sometimes but I don't have anything better to do sometimes so I hang out with you"? Life is all about settling and white lies. I'd prefer that it was otherwise, but I can't change the world. I can just... wait for it... settle and compromise.

[Iguanna]

"Settling" for a woman I'm barely attracted to on a physical level (i.e. marrying her) is something I'd be foolish to do

 

Ok so I guess I can't explain myself well. I never said "barely attracted to". This is not even the issue of the OP. The issue here is two men, the one rocked her world in bed but was an ******* overall and the second is a great guy but doesn't rock her world in bed but that doesn't mean she is not even satisfied. Come on, there are scales of how good sex you can have, it's not black or white. This woman has chosen the less satisfying in bed guy cause she loves him and she knows he will be a great husband and father. Of course his manly ego is offended here cause he would love to rock her world in bed as well. I get it. We all wish we can be smart, beautiful, successful, loved, rich, etc. But can we all be these things simultaneously? No. We sacrifice things to pursue other things that matter for us more. Accordingly we sacrifice thing a partner may not have for other things we consider more important. If you HAD to choose, would you marry an unfaithful, untrustworthy woman with whom you had the best sex ever or a more mediocre sex partner who would make a good wife and mother?

[peruano99]

But if you have knowingly made the choice to stay despite the fact that sex is not satisfying (I mean if this doesn't change suddenly throughout the marriage), then it would be stupid and immature to break your own vows to yourself and cheat. It's like being a vegetarian by choice and suddenly you decide that it's a bad thing to be a vegetarian, you break the promises you made with yourself and start eating meat like crazy. You get my point?

 

Yes, it's best to break the relationship is sex or anything else in the relationship is unsatisfying rather than having an affair.

[Iguanna]

If you are in a relationship with a man who doesn't satisfy you, that's something that would be important for him to know. Give him the chance to decide whether he wants to commit his life in that situation.

 

I'll repeat it once again in case you have missed the last 20 times I said it. I never said "not satisfy" at all. I said, mediocre sex. There are many scales of sex, the breath taking, the almost always satisfying, the 50% of the times satisfying, the boring but good, the boring and bad, the ok one etc. If you want to keep saying I would settle for BAD sex to just make a point for no reason, you can do it. But don't expect me to reply to you while you argue with things I never said.

 

I would choose the woman who gives the best sex ever, have an open relationship, and never have children.

 

I couldn't be faithful to the 2nd woman.

 

If you are not interested in having kids and family, then your opinion doesn't apply with what I say here, nor to what the OP's situation is. We are talking about lifetime relationships, marriage, kids and of course faithful people.

[peruano99]

Iguanna you know your avi reminds me a lot of a friend from UK that I have.

[road]

The following is her reply to my question about "better than expected":

 

 

me: The part that affect me the most was your answer that it is better than you expected. Therefore I knew that I was not very attractive to you.

 

 

What did you mean by the sex was better then expected?

 

 

her: 'better than i expect', to me,is a positive thing, it is a good surprise

 

 

Why a surprise? How is it positive?

 

 

me: Yes, you enjoy sex with me for the emotional closeness, but not for the physical excitement. During the past few weeks, I have been learning to accept that you don't have that strong physical desire for me, but you do enjoy the emotional closeness.

 

 

What/why do you like sex with me?

 

 

her: Maybe you are right. I believe it is the difference between men and women. I asked some girlfriends, we all agree women use their heart to make love more, but men behave differently

 

 

 

You want honest answers you do not ask closed ended questions.

 

 

Doing so you are laying the ground work for her to give you answers that you want to hear. So she gets to do damage control instead of being 100% honest.

[Iguanna]

You said, "mediocre sex". Do I need to bring out the dictionary? Mediocre sex is unacceptable.

 

I'm interested in having a family, but not at the expense of my own happiness.

 

Well for me unacceptable is mediocre feelings and personality. Lets agree we disagree.

 

If you intend to have kids, you should learn to put yourself and your happiness second, or else you shouldn't bother having kids. People's selfishness is the reason there are unhappy kids all over the world. Selfish people's happiness comes first. Well that's not parent material. Stay childless and enjoy life.

[Kate9292]

I agree 100% with Iguanna.

 

My bf isn't the best in bed I ever had, it was my FWB. But my bf has so many wonderful qualities that I can't imagine not spending rest of my life with him. And sex with him isn't bad or mediocre, it's just different. I enjoyed acts more with FWB but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy them with my bf. I just can compromise on it because he's a much better man in other qualities.

 

I have a feeling OP's gf might be similar. If you want to satisfy her better, do it. Even if you won't be the best she's ever had in bed, at least you gave your best. And it doesn't mean she doesn't love you.

[road]

Let us realize that marriage is legalized prostitution.

 

 

Every guy wants the girl that is a 10 of 10's.

 

 

The hot alpha female cheerleader captain for his wife. That happens to have a trust fund and a 7 figure a year salary. With at least 2 second homes.

 

 

Does the guy that is a 5, on the day he gets a fresh hair cut, new suit, shirt, tie, shoes. Become a 10? No. When he goes out to the meet a woman the 10's are not going to even let him buy them a drink. He get lucky and connect with a 7. Though with the competition there that night he may have to settle for a 4-5.

 

 

Everything in life is a trade off. Dream girl is a brunette, The girl that is receptive to him is a blonde. Does he accept that and have a relationship or stay solo?

 

 

Rock stars, actors, actresses, sports stars, models. They have to trade off as well. Now where an average Joe or Jane says do I want the 7 blonde or the 6 brunette. The celebrities say do I want that 10, or that 10 or that 10, etc, etc.

 

 

As pointed out she is faithful now. There was no exclusive talk done before he went away for four months. If sex was that bad she would be gone by now. It has to be good enough for her to want to marry you. She is doing what everyone does. She is looking at the whole picture. She see's all that you are bringing to the table and she likes all that you offer.

 

 

Perils of finding out about a BF/GF's past. You need to leave it in the past. Ask your questions, non closed ended. Then do not talk about it with her or here. You need to decide to stay or go and forget her past.

 

 

By the way when people she her with you they have know way of knowing who she had sex with. No way of knowing that you where not her best in bed.

 

 

Though she is yours. Do you want to give up the best sex and relationship that you will ever get because of how you rated compared to her other BF's?

 

 

Give a big F U to her old BF because he could not keep her and you won because she is now yours.

[xAkulax]

I agree 100% with Iguanna.

 

My bf isn't the best in bed I ever had, it was my FWB. But my bf has so many wonderful qualities that I can't imagine not spending rest of my life with him. And sex with him isn't bad or mediocre, it's just different. I enjoyed acts more with FWB but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy them with my bf. I just can compromise on it because he's a much better man in other qualities.

 

I have a feeling OP's gf might be similar. If you want to satisfy her better, do it. Even if you won't be the best she's ever had in bed, at least you gave your best. And it doesn't mean she doesn't love you.

 

 

Quick question are you still friends with your FWB if so do you take the appropriate steps to inshore boundaries are not breach because if not your bf my be here soon as a future poster

[Woggle]

End it with her. Being a settled for man is literally one of the worst positions a man can be in. They are the lowest on the relationship totem pole and one day when you are married and she meets some OM who gives her feelings that she never had with you you will be sorry.

 

I do believe that a man can be a great lover and a faithful husband but there are many women who don't see it that way. This woman seems to be one of those women so end it and find a woman who can see that all in one man. They are rare but they do exist. Read the divorce forums and don't let that happen to you.

[Kate9292]

Quick question are you still friends with your FWB if so do you take the appropriate steps to inshore boundaries are not breach because if not your bf my be here soon as a future poster

 

I'm not in contact with him even though I have him as friend on my FB. We haven't talked pretty much since FWB ended.

[Zenstudent]

I've been following the thread from the beginning, but haven't posted yet. I've been back and forth about what to think about this situation, but I think I can boil it down to this now: I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-4 years from now, you'll be back in a forum like this with a thread titled "My wife cheated on me, she doesn't know why, it just happened".

 

If you wanna place your bet on a relationship with her, I don't blieve you have any other choice than to saddle up your alpha-horse and try to be everything for her. I'm very much like you, I think, or I was at least.

 

Too many red flags in my opinion, only speaking from own experiences of course. Even though I wish someone would've told me years ago, I also know that I probably wouldn't have listened to them anyway.

 

Think carefully about this. The POV that women (or men for that matter) would choose the good provider, the nice guy etc. rather than the alpha stud - just read the threads here, and you will know that many choose both, and keep one of them secret. Just saying. I'm in no way certain about this, but something just doesn't sit right with me.

[peruano99]

I've been following the thread from the beginning, but haven't posted yet. I've been back and forth about what to think about this situation, but I think I can boil it down to this now: I wouldn't be surprised if in 2-4 years from now, you'll be back in a forum like this with a thread titled "My wife cheated on me, she doesn't know why, it just happened".

 

If you wanna place your bet on a relationship with her, I don't blieve you have any other choice than to saddle up your alpha-horse and try to be everything for her. I'm very much like you, I think, or I was at least.

 

Too many red flags in my opinion, only speaking from own experiences of course. Even though I wish someone would've told me years ago, I also know that I probably wouldn't have listened to them anyway.

 

Think carefully about this. The POV that women (or men for that matter) would choose the good provider, the nice guy etc. rather than the alpha stud - just read the threads here, and you will know that many choose both, and keep one of them secret. Just saying. I'm in no way certain about this, but something just doesn't sit right with me.

 

This man is correct .

[SD1000]

 

Again, I haven't seen anything definitive that indicates she is NOT attracted to you. just simply that they may have had a little more chemistry and energy.

 

 

the signs that would indicate she's just gaming you for some companionship and security would be if she -

 

- rarely if ever initiates any sexual activity or flirting, banter etc.

 

- makes no effort to dress up or primp and preen for you or wear what you ask her to but will spend hours getting ready and looking hot if going out where there will be other men.

 

- seems to only engage in sexual activity when you initiate it and then appears to just be performing another household chore, ie "duty sex" or if she even appears somewhat hostile and has an "OK-Fine.-let's-just-get-it-over-with" attitude and just lays there with arms at her side and lets you masturbate with her body, ie "starfish sex."

 

- always has an excuse to postpone sex ie too tired, too stressed, too achy/crampy/, too much work to do, too tired, not in the mood, feels too fat, hasn't showed/put on make up etc etc etc but then never follows through with the promise of doing it 'later'.

 

- outright rejects your advances.

 

- carrys on flirtations, banter, lunches, hang-outs, etc etc with other men despite your protests, claiming them to be "just friends." Blames your discomfort on your insecurity or that you are just imagining it.

 

- has actual emotional and physical contact with other men (again debatable if her involvement with other man constitutes cheating. some here obviously do think that she cheated. I'm not so convinced)

 

- indicates your interest in sex is excessive and that YOU have a problem because you "want it all the time."

 

 

 

 

We chatted a little bit about this topic last night. Regarding the OM, she still insists that her text messages to him were just flirting and not sincere.

 

 

Regarding the signs you posted, she does not really fit any of those signs. She has never rejected me and she has said a time or two that she wishes that I showed more desire for me. She doesn't think my interest in sex is obsessive at all. I pulled back because I didn't feel her strong interest. One thing I like about her is that she is always willing to wear sexy clothes for me before we make love.

[SD1000]

 

The exception to this is if she is completely wanting you strictly for a beta supporter to pay her bills and keep a roof over her head with no intentions of having a passionate sexual relationship with you.

 

If she resists your attempts to become more attractive and more assertive and more masculine RUN FAR AND RUN FAST!!!

 

 

 

She made some wise investments in the 90s so she has quite a bit more wealth than I do. I am middle class with a nice house, but she doesn't need my money to pay bills.

 

 

Regarding me going to the gym, she said "thank you" when I told her I have begun working hard in the gym because she assumed that I was doing it to impress her. Last night, she noticed that I was more assertive and it bothered her. She told me that she didn't want me to change because she liked my personality the way it was before.

[SD1000]

 

I actually dont think OP had a problem with passion unti he saw her being "ddirty" with this guy. He sees it as being more passionate.

 

 

 

Passion was a concern of mine before I saw her text messages. When we made love, it was usually good and a couple of times it was pretty passionate. However she almost never verbally expressed her excitement to me and was not interested to talk about sex outside the bedroom. I thought that it was because of her character that she didn't express things openly until I saw the flirty text messages.

[SD1000]

SD1000 - The situation you're in right now could so easily happen to the guy I'm with and some posts really explain the side of men and how it feels to hear things like "we don't have the greatest sex but I chose you because ________".

 

Point taken, men. That can not be easy.

 

I'll explain why I relate to your situation, OP. I was in a serious relationship years back and went through a bad breakup and needed time to myself to get in a healthy place mentally. My ex was so insane that I knew my head got scrambled being around him too long. I decided at first being single for quite a while was good for me but then realized I could have a sexual relationship (thanks to a FWB situation) without any long term commitment or worry about potential problems stemming from a serious relationship. I didn't have to worry about making any long-term decisions. Just carefree, great sex. It was really good for me at that time.

 

I knew though that I would want to eventually get into a long-term, serious relationship and the FWB situation would end.

 

This is where you need to pay attention because this answers some questions you have:

 

In order to pick out a great lover in the sack, he only had to be good at one thing. Sex! But fun and flirting was a big part of that. The guy didn't need a whole lot of skill in any other areas of his life. And to be honest, he was so immature (which in a way is what made him fun) that I could never for a split second picture myself in a serious relationship with him. No way! He was good for one thing.

 

In order to choose a long-term, serious potential partner, he had to be smart, mature and responsible. I'll admit that I had no real hope of finding a man who could be all that and a bunch of fun in the sack too! Seems like just too much to ask. All these great things wrapped up in one guy? And I don't think I'm alone when I say I had low expectations in the bedroom for the more mature, smarter guy. I think a lot of women think they will have to make a choice and sacrifice one for the other.

 

Does that mean she doesn't love you? No. What I think it does mean is inside, she's secretly wishing and dying for you to be that awesome fun and flirtatious guy in bed but that type of personality doesn't typically go with smart and mature so she probably doesn't expect to ever see this from you.

 

It will never do you any good in this situation though to compare yourself to that other guy she seemed to have some carefree fun with and try to emulate him. Rather, be a whole lot of fun in your own way. I'd bet anything she wishes this is what would happen but if she tells you that, and you do it, are you faking it to try to please her or is this the real you?

 

I don't think anyone wants cubic zirconia when they can have the real diamond.

 

 

 

Thank you. One thing that I did miss is that two previous girlfriends did think I was a great lover and they were very passionate about it. Her personality is more reserved, so I guess I needed to recognize that. I don't know how she was with the other guy, I only know about her text messages with him.

 

 

I am caring and that is what I tried to attract her with. I am a nice guy, but I'm not boring about sex. I like to have a wild sex life, but I just never realized before that I needed to be more aggressive instead of always making sure that she didn't feel any pressure to do anything she didn't want to. I generally focused on pleasing her and it seems like she enjoys the feeling of the man just taking her and pleasing himself sometimes. That goes against the instinct of a gentle and caring boyfriend, but when I realize it, I have no problem to be more aggressive.

[SD1000]

This much is obvious though. She views you as a provider, not a lover. You don't turn her on in a deep, sexual, primal way. You're that nice guy she wants to settle down with.

 

 

Just as likely, she merely settled for him...let's not blow smoke up OP's arse

 

 

 

I agree that she has in many ways seen me as a nice caring guy, and not in a sexual primal way. However, she says that she wants me to show her more desire. Therefore, I am trying to find out if I can change that impression that she has of me. I told her clearly that I do not want to continue if she doesn't have the strong sexual attraction to me. Therefore, I will be an interesting case study to see if a couple's sexual dynamics can change a lot when both try to make an effort.

[SD1000]

You are jumping into conclusions. I never said to stay in a marriage with someone "who doesn't even enjoy having sex with". I said that if I had to choose between a nice guy with mediocre sex and a bad guy with amazing sex I'd settle for the first guy and be damn happy with it.And no, I don't believe I'd have to tell him and hurt his feelings. We settle every day but we aren't 100% honest with it. Do you tell your boss every day "man I find you terrible but I stay in your job cause I need the money"? Do you tell your wife every day "I wish you could cook better cause I kinda hate your food but I don't have anywhere else to eat so I eat your ****"? Do you tell your friend every day "I consider you naive sometimes but I don't have anything better to do sometimes so I hang out with you"? Life is all about settling and white lies. I'd prefer that it was otherwise, but I can't change the world. I can just... wait for it... settle and compromise.

 

 

 

Just for the record, I'm not ready to concede that I am very mediocre with sex! : ) I'm passionate about sex and some women thought I was great because I passionately wanted them to enjoy it very much.

[SD1000]

I'll repeat it once again in case you have missed the last 20 times I said it. I never said "not satisfy" at all. I said, mediocre sex. There are many scales of sex, the breath taking, the almost always satisfying, the 50% of the times satisfying, the boring but good, the boring and bad, the ok one etc.

 

 

 

I'm glad you clarified this. Generally in oral English, the word mediocre has a negative connotation. In my opinion, it generally refers to something disappointing.