What does his reaction mean?

[ExpatInItaly]

If they both stay in that workplace sooner or later they will be in a full-blown affair.

 

Count on it.

 

Yup. Bonnie, you clearly don't plan to leave this man. For whatever reason, you don't believe you deserve more. Expect this to continue for a long, long time to come. Sad...

[Bonnie123]

I'm not ruling out any of the things you've said, you're probably all right, I just feel I've got too much to leave.

 

Can I ask though, why the certainty of things turning into a full blown affair if all they are doing is looking at each other? Is locking eyes at a distance then not looking at each other the rest of the time really that significant? (I'm genuinely asking, I don't understand some things about body language and cues as naturally as most)

[ExpatInItaly]

I'm not ruling out any of the things you've said, you're probably all right, I just feel I've got too much to leave.

 

Can I ask though, why the certainty of things turning into a full blown affair if all they are doing is looking at each other? Is locking eyes at a distance then not looking at each other the rest of the time really that significant? (I'm genuinely asking, I don't understand some things about body language and cues as naturally as most)

 

Because they're in love with each other.

[Leigh 87]

Bonnie, you have nothing worth holding on to.

 

Having a few good years with a man and having his children doesn't mean that it is worth staying with him when he is IN LOVE with ANOTHER WOMAN.

 

20 good years and 8 children STILL would not make it fun for a woman to stay with a guy who IS IN LOVE with ANOTHER WOMAN.

 

Bonnie, wake up, he is in love with her.

 

Do you want to be with a man who is in love with another woman?

[mickleb]

Sounds like you have a life of paranoia and pain (which you'll be passing on to your kids btw) alongside the pretending that he's a happy family man. And that, at the end of all that, if he had any chance of being with this woman, he'd take it. That would leave you with self-loathing to add to the mix. Or, if it's not this woman, the fact that he has the space in his heart to actually fall in love with another woman, suggests to everyone but you on this board, that he also has the capacity to fall for some third chick who catches his eye, one day in the future. Leaving you with that hefty dose of self-loathing again.

 

So, if you're happy with that, Bonnie, let us know and carry on as you are. If you're not, the suggestion of this board is that you leave him. As this is the only way you'll address this unhappiness. Unless you have any other suggestions?

 

What are you going to choose?

[Bonnie123]

Thank you for theadvice, it's not falling on deaf ears I just feel so torn and confused.

 

I'm on the spectrum and was being serious when I asked about the locking eyes thing...can someone please explain the significance of it? Even/especially taking my backstory away from it, does it only mean a romantic thing or could it mean something else?

[ExpatInItaly]

Thank you for theadvice, it's not falling on deaf ears I just feel so torn and confused.

 

I'm on the spectrum and was being serious when I asked about the locking eyes thing...can someone please explain the significance of it? Even/especially taking my backstory away from it, does it only mean a romantic thing or could it mean something else?

 

They're locking eyes because they're interested in each other. They feel a romantic connection or sexual interest, or both. And yes, I would say that even if we didn't know they're in love.

 

You cannot separate the backstory from this, either. And I have to be honest, I don't get what you're so confused or torn about. The writing is on the wall. You're the only person not reading it.

[Leigh 87]

Thank you for theadvice, it's not falling on deaf ears I just feel so torn and confused.

 

I'm on the spectrum and was being serious when I asked about the locking eyes thing...can someone please explain the significance of it? Even/especially taking my backstory away from it, does it only mean a romantic thing or could it mean something else?

 

 

 

He is 100% doing it because he is in love with her.

 

If I worked with my ex I would not lock eyes with him because I don't have strong feelings for him and we both have loving partners who we would rather lock eyes with.

 

It isn't normal for a happily partnered man to lock eyes with another woman, when he is otherwise madly in love with his partner.

 

Men who are madly in love with their partners don't just stand there and gawk at other women UNLESS they are washing cars in bikinis right next to them. Then they are aloud to glance a little:lmao:

 

Bonnie, I know it is tough to take our advice since it means saying goodbye to a huge part of your life... him. I was in your position 1 - 2 years ago... I had an ex who cheated on me yet I wouldn't listen to anyone when they told me to break up with him. People on here urged me to leave him and find a man who could truly loved me in the way that I deserved to be love.

 

Guess what happened, Bonnie? HE ended up leaving ME. Since he was never in love with me to begin with, which the cheating highlighted, he ended up feeling something was missing anyways. Without a new woman in the picture.

 

Falling love with another woman isn't quiet as guilty as cheating but it still signals that HE IS NOT in love with you.

 

He LOVES you but he is not IN love with you. This is as clear as day!

 

Can you honestly be blissfully happy with a man who is not passionate about you and who merely loves you as the mother of his children, without actually being genuinely in love with you in a deep, romantic sense?

 

 

He is more in love with another woman than he is with you. How, may I ask, do you purport to be able to "fix" this?

[Zahara]

Thank you for theadvice, it's not falling on deaf ears I just feel so torn and confused.

 

I'm on the spectrum and was being serious when I asked about the locking eyes thing...can someone please explain the significance of it? Even/especially taking my backstory away from it, does it only mean a romantic thing or could it mean something else?

 

You're not torn and confused. Deep down inside you see the writing on the wall. You're just trying your hardest to look away from it. You're in denial.

 

You have too much to leave or is it that you're scared to leave. Honestly, what would you be staying for when your partner is in love with someone else.

 

They lock eyes because they have an emotional/sexual connection. They want what they cannot have and in that sense makes the connection even stronger. I don't go around locking eyes with men in my workplace. This isn't rocket science.

[Space Ritual]

Bonnie, as I told you over 2 months ago, you need to hold him accountable for his actions or nothing will change. And sadly reading the thread after another 2+months I was not surprised at all that basically nothing has changed.

 

A procrastinator's work is never done.....

 

 

You are driving yourself crazy over minutae because it's easier than pulling your head out of the sand.

 

 

I'm, sorry, but nothing is ever going to change unless you hit your rock bottom because you have not shown one real consequence to him for his actions. It is difficult at best for people to retain No contact when they don't work together but he is in constant mental cheating mode, which means you don't have a shot in hell.......you teach others how to treat you......stop being a damned doormat!

 

Good Luck...I'll check back in 2 months from now...I want you to please prove my prediction that nothing will have changed once again wrong....do it for your own dignity. Dear Lord doing the cloak and dagger act for this douchenozzle after more than 10 seconds are 10 seconds you can't get back...

[TheWalkingMan]

Excuse me for asking this if it is a silly question, but Bonnie..can you even trust what you are being told here? You seem to say that your friends..or your friends brothers, or something, are the ones seeing this behavior at their work..and not you? Do you not think there is a problem right there?

 

I don't know, that is weird to me. Does the guy not know these people know you? You keep talking about how you are being told they are "avoiding each others eyes" and "locking eyes with each other" but..who is witnessing this? Why is this person spying on their co-workers? I'm just all sorts of confused, because why would these people be more or less making googly eyes at each other in front of someone who knew you? Why would they think you would not find out?

 

Explain to me exactly what goes down, who see's this..I don't even know what to call..eyeballing each other?

[bonnie2767]

I’m using a different email so had to sign up again. Hopefully this will be my last update, but something has finally changed. We need the money and he’s applied for a new job. I really see this as a positive step, though my friend isn’t so sure as it’s further away and will add at least an hour onto his journey every day, so that does mean less time at home. It’s also not a job he’ll enjoy, but he’s prepared to take it for our family.

 

That said, he also told me he has spoken to this woman again after 5 months. He said it was to do with work and as he was in charge of this particular thing, he initially tried to get someone else to ask her for him but that person said no to ask her yourself…so he did. He said they’ve spoken a couple of times and he told her about the new job too though he's not made it common knowledge yet

Edited June 11, 2014 by bonnie2767

[No Limit]

So what? It's still cheating if he does it with a different woman.

You've decided to stay, so look away. It will only cause you pain anyway, just look away and be happy every time he decides to come home.

[Leigh 87]

He's not in love with you.

 

Please dont stay.

 

He fell in love with a other woman.

[bonnie2767]

No Limit

I'm not really sure what you mean, it's the same woman

 

Leigh, doesn't it count for something he iswilling to do a job he won't like for our family? And that he told me he'd spoken to her again after 5 months?

 

Ever since he told me, I do keep thinking why didn't he just get a higher up manager to have the conversation with her. I asked him to tell me every time he spoke to her and he said once 3 weeks ago, then when she queried his question he brought another manager with him to witness the conversation (that can only be positive for me, right?), then a conversation alone in his office for 20 minutes 'just chatting'. I'm not so thrilled about that. I don't think he was thinking when he said it, but the phrase 'it wasn't awkward at all, it was just like before' slipped out and when I questioned it, he said all he meant was it should be awkward speaking after all that happened and 5 months in the same environment but not speaking...which it should be I suppose? He also said during the conversations alone, he deliberately kept his eyes to the floor most of the time....thats got to be good too, right?

[Thicke2013]

Wow Bonnie. That's all I can say. This thread is actually painful for me to read. I feel for you in a way, but then again it's hard to feel sorry for someone who willingly puts themselves in a situation like this. It's like playing with fire and acting surprised when you get burned.

 

No Limit

I'm not really sure what you mean, it's the same woman

 

For now it's the same woman. I guarantee this isn't the first woman he has been inappropriate with. This may be the first one to actually reciprocate.

 

Leigh, doesn't it count for something he iswilling to do a job he won't like for our family? And that he told me he'd spoken to her again after 5 months?

 

No it doesn't. It just means that he is wanting a better paying job. What he was willing to do for his "family" is fall in love with another woman.

 

Ever since he told me, I do keep thinking why didn't he just get a higher up manager to have the conversation with her. I asked him to tell me every time he spoke to her and he said once 3 weeks ago, then when she queried his question he brought another manager with him to witness the conversation (that can only be positive for me, right?), then a conversation alone in his office for 20 minutes 'just chatting'. I'm not so thrilled about that. I don't think he was thinking when he said it, but the phrase 'it wasn't awkward at all, it was just like before' slipped out and when I questioned it, he said all he meant was it should be awkward speaking after all that happened and 5 months in the same environment but not speaking...which it should be I suppose? He also said during the conversations alone, he deliberately kept his eyes to the floor most of the time....thats got to be good too, right?

 

This will be your existence for the rest of your life if you decide to stay with him. You will always wonder when you see him looking at someone else, or he calls and says he has to work late, or he has to go out of town for work. You will always wonder who he is with.

 

I don't see how it is ok with you that after he admitted to you that he was in love with this other woman and she with him, that they still text, and talk, and email. There are other forms of technology that they can be using to communicate as well that you probably haven't even looked for. This man doesn't deserve you and you deserve better than him. Please for your sake and your kids most of all, get out. This is not a relationship.

[No Limit]

No Limit

I'm not really sure what you mean, it's the same woman

 

For now, but you've mentioned him getting a new job. But there will be women at that post as well, or in the supermarket or God knows where else he wanders off to.

 

You can't chain him down, and you can't change him. He's cheated already and got away with it, he'll gladly give it another shot, like so many others.

 

Like I wrote before; look away. You want to stay, and looking away will be the only way you won't go totally insane and paranoid. Just be glad if he comes home for the next few years, maybe he'll stay as well if he doesn't meet another woman who'll make him feel safe enough to quickly exit the "relationship" he has with you.

 

Walk away or look away. The latter will cost you precious lifetime though.

[bonnie2767]

I do appreciate that, really I do, but I have made the choice to give it one last go. If it did happen again, I'm gone...but don't you think the new job etc (same company, but a transfer 40 miles away) is a positive step for us? I'll admit I'm not happy he spoke to herand chose to do so when there were other options, or that when she came to talk to him they ended up talking for 20 minutes but he said he couldn't get away

[ExpatInItaly]

I do appreciate that, really I do, but I have made the choice to give it one last go. If it did happen again, I'm gone...but don't you think the new job etc (same company, but a transfer 40 miles away) is a positive step for us? I'll admit I'm not happy he spoke to herand chose to do so when there were other options, or that when she came to talk to him they ended up talking for 20 minutes but he said he couldn't get away

 

Not really, no. The bottom line is that he's shown you he's not in love with you. His attentions will turn to someone else, regardless of where he is or his work environment. He's demonstrated very clearly that he will lie right to your face and fall in love with other women. That isn't going to change with a new job.

 

I honestly can't believe you're still with him, Bonnie.

[bonnie2767]

I genuinely believe his problem is this specific woman. After him telling me about talking to her though, it's playing on my mind. He knows the effect it would have on me that they spoke with other people there, but the fact they were alone together for nearly half an hour doesn't sit right...or that he felt theneed to tell her about the new job when he's not told others thereyet...

[snowflakes88]

The problem is bigger than this woman -- it's that he isn't fully in love / committed to you. Do you want to be married to this man? Does he want to marry you?

[mickleb]

I genuinely believe his problem is this specific woman. After him telling me about talking to her though, it's playing on my mind. He knows the effect it would have on me that they spoke with other people there, but the fact they were alone together for nearly half an hour doesn't sit right...or that he felt theneed to tell her about the new job when he's not told others thereyet...

 

You demonstrate the problem right here, Bonnie.

 

You choose to believe what you want to believe (which is not what ONE other person on here believes). Whatever, that's your choice (even though I think that choice still negatively affects your children) and there's nothing anyone here can do to stop you from making it. IF you were satisfied with that choice, that would be one thing. We could all hope that you left this board more content than when you arrived, and that (despite what we all envisage will blow up in your face, at a later date) you'd be able to mask all this nonsense from your kids and get on with playing happy families.

 

But you're not happy.

 

Of course he'll say what you want to hear, MOST of the time. He can't be with her, so you'll do. He would've kept all this secret from you if you hadn't have questioned it. You did, it came out. You (somehow??!) accepted it so he's returned to telling you what you want to hear. But, occasionally, the mask slips.

 

He thought aloud that their TOTALLY UNNECESSARY 20 minute chat "wasn't awkward at all, it was just like before", didn't he? And that stung, didn't it? That stayed with you because, despite the fact that he's going to work in a different place to her, it revealed his affection for her. It reminded you that, if he could be with her, he would be with her, and he wouldn't be with you or your children.

 

So, bury your feelings again, Bonnie, if you want to. Let him work somewhere else and not see her on a daily basis. Try to ignore the fact that he could text her, call her, contact her via social media, meet her anywhere else he wants to (including your home when you're not there) if they want to have another little chat, just like before, or more.

 

And try to bury the fact that (even if this move worked) he has been able to fall for another woman, which means that he doesn't really love you and could fall for another.

 

Bury it all and never be suspicious of him again, if you can. Do you think you can? Because if you can't, Bonnie, you are choosing a lifetime of misery that will eat you up and radiate out to your kids, who are completely innocent in all of this.

 

It probably seems easier, right now, to imagine a happy ending. It probably even seems easy to imagine you'll be fine if you ever find out he's done this again. But, trust me, Bonnie, it won't be easier next time. It'll be much, much harder because you will realise why we all told you not to look away when the man in your life finally stopped lying to you and admitted that he loved another woman. And the realisation that you went against both our AND your better judgement (along with the fact that you allowed your children to get even more attached to him than they needed to be) will hurt you the most.

 

But, if you think you can bury it all and think it will all go away, and none of it - nothing like it - will ever cross your happy family's path again, then go ahead Bonnie. If that's what you choose to do then all we can do is wish you very, very good luck with that.

[bonnie2767]

It did sting, yes, I just don't see why even if he said he couldn't get away, why he allowed himself to be alone with her for that long even if it was about work though he did say some of it was her telling him about whats been going on for her personally. He'sa people pleaser but there MUST have been a way to escape her AND not tell her about him leaving, I don't understand why he'd do that at all

 

Yourre right about the happy ending...maybe I've just lost my mind entirely, but I really do see his job move and putting distance between them as a good thing. Wehad another talk about the job last night where he told me that when he told her what it was she said he'd hate that and she's right but he's prepared to do it so he doesn't have to see her every day and for our family

[Survivor12]

You are so determined to believe what you want to believe that you don't even consider other possibilities.

 

Did it ever cross your mind that after all of the drama (and everyone watching their every move), she may have told him that it's too "dangerous" to carry on an affair as co-workers--and THAT'S the real reason he took another job?

 

Not all affair partners work together. As a matter of fact, not working together will allow them to be much more discreet...They can each take an afternoon off work & who will know that it was for a planned tryst? Working in the same place, it would raise eyebrows for sure.

 

You say he's taking the job for the good of your family? How does taking a job that gives him less time to spend with you a benefit?

 

Oh, and when he tells you that he has to work late or has an errand on his way home, without your "spies" to prove otherwise, he will be free to meet up with her and you will never know.

 

Think about this--after the blow up, she wouldn't talk to him, right? If I remember correctly, she even got HR involved. Yet now, she is willing to spend 30 minutes IN HIS OFFICE having a one-on-one conversation?

 

Then, although he hasn't made his new job public knowledge, he has made a point of telling HER! Ask yourself--why tell her? What makes HER so special?

 

Sorry to say but while he's got you convinced (for now) that he's taking this new job for YOU (and at such a great sacrifice, no less), what he's really accomplished is getting the girl back, taking the affair underground & cutting off your surveillance.

 

Sadly, though, you refuse to see it, and even if you ever DO have suspicions, you will have no way to prove them.

 

On the bright side--you can keep on pretending that you are the happy couple and won't have to hear about stolen glances and hushed conversations. Out of sight, out of mind, right?

 

Denial can be a double-edged sword.

[Leigh 87]

It did sting, yes, I just don't see why even if he said he couldn't get away, why he allowed himself to be alone with her for that long even if it was about work though he did say some of it was her telling him about whats been going on for her personally. He'sa people pleaser but there MUST have been a way to escape her AND not tell her about him leaving, I don't understand why he'd do that at all

 

Yourre right about the happy ending...maybe I've just lost my mind entirely, but I really do see his job move and putting distance between them as a good thing. Wehad another talk about the job last night where he told me that when he told her what it was she said he'd hate that and she's right but he's prepared to do it so he doesn't have to see her every day and for our family

 

 

 

But he's not in love with you!!

 

 

Men who are truly in love do not fall for OTHER WOMEN.

 

 

The fact he fell in love with her in the first place means that he DOES NOT LOVE YOU.

 

He may love you as the mother of his children but he IS NOT in love with you!

 

Let me tell you, you would be MUCH happier with a man who was crazy about you!

 

You will not do yourself any good by staying with a man who is no longer in love with you. Your kids don't need you to stay with your partner.

 

Your kids would it want their mummy staying with a man who wasn't in love with her just for their sake. Most kids just want their parents to be happy!

 

You can have a healthy Co parenting relationship and go on to find a man who is IN LOVE with you. You will be 100% happier.