Want to lay it all out there - good idea or not?

[iceisles]

I don't have an ego. I try to be a decent person, that's all. It just seems like chivalry is fading these days. I'll keep trodding along, but never mistake my "screw her" attitude with not caring - I definitely do, but in the words of Kenny Rogers, "you have to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em." This seems like a "fold 'em" situation to me.

[blind_otter]

Excuse my interruption of the sausage festival.....

 

But MA is right....the guy I am totally head over heels for since I met him, is the most endearing, sweet, deliciously tender man I've been with. I realized that I was going for neanderthal man, especially after the debacle with my psycho-restraining-order-ex. Bad judgement, I was looking for those macho manyl qualities and I was continually pissed off.

 

But honestly it's just chemistry - it's either there, or it isn't, and there is no explaining that....you either totally want to bone someone (guy) and/or get your face pounded into the mattress for 2 hours (girl)....or you "just don't have those feelings for that person."

 

I suppose that the mystical magical thang about attraction.

 

Originally posted by MassiveAtom

Newsflash buddy,

 

It's your Solar-sized ego that got you into this situation just now.

 

Adjust your crotch if you want to but most women would think you're just unclean.

 

Women mostly want a Gentleman. Self-reliant, secure, stable, Self-controlled, Gentleman. Unless they're groupies, have medications for their "problems" and so forth. Oh, have you noticed? they all "love to laugh" (how tired) So that gentleman better be at least a little funny sometimes. Now I'm NOT saying that's all they all want, I'd be a moron if I did, BUt there are core qualities that "the good ones" look for. Set your ego aside Mr, I'm not going to change, and BE THAT. Be it for you.

 

I call most of my female friends, Babe, honey, sweetheart, you name it. Am I a gentleman in their eyes? You bet. Do I flirt? You bet! Do I seem safe? Sort of. Do they think I'm easily attainable now that they ALL know I'm getting divorced?

 

They've told me "Oh we know your type, Tall beautiful, gorgeous" which means, "We think we could never have you, therefore we are really interested in you" just goofy.

 

Have I noticed other guys at the office wondering why women always talk me up? yep. Do I wonder why? Nope, I know why.

 

Man UP Ice.

 

as always,

 

MA

[iceisles]

Originally posted by blind_otter

and/or get your face pounded into the mattress for 2 hours (girl)

 

2 hours? 2 hours? Man! Lol. Anyway, I get not being so nice, and not being so available, but like Otter said, doesn't it really just come down to chemistry? Hell, if she was floored by me on our first date, few things would change that. The problem is I read this all wrong - I really believed she was into me, otherwise I would have baled much earlier. I don't chase dead ends, but I will occasionally chase something when there are mixed signals. Sometimes I win, most of the time I lose. This is just another entry in the 'L' column.

[MassiveAtom]

Otter,

 

No, you're always welcome to the sausage festival. Especially when I'm presenting !

 

[kanga]

OK, I'm a bit worried. The boy I keep swooning for is soooo an MA and alpha. And I really hope that he doesn't just think of me as just some other girl whom he'll one day drop (snap) like that or just disappear on. (Sidebar: MA, alpha, any advice on how to keep him around? Can I control that at all?)

 

Like an onion, he's got a lot of layers. And as I peel each away, I like him more. On the outer layer, he's a jerk. He's a self-proclaimed dick. He tells whatever he wants to whoever he wants without fear. He's an open flirt. This is why I never suspected anything about his advances toward me. The second layer is one of amazing intelligence. I never realized how smart he is until I got to know him a little more. The third layer is a more sensitive one. He doesn't let many people see this side. He doesn't hide it or fake it. It just doesn't always come out.

 

Yeah, he's probably not what you'd consider "nice." He's a dominant, confident, strong-willed man. He wants to be in control. He knows when to speak up and he's decisive. He's not a "bad guy." No drugs. Rarely drinks. No previous arrests. Not nice does not = bad seed. You don't have to like kicking kittens and burning down houses to be not "nice," which, by the way, is quite a misused word.

 

I gotta agree that we say we want nice, but we don't really mean it, especially not if nice means sap. Perhaps I shouldn't say we because I'm sure there are some women who'd disagree. I'm an independent, feminist-thinking kind of woman. But I also want to be a lady and want a guy who acts like a man.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by kanga

OK, I'm a bit worried. The boy I keep swooning for is soooo an MA and alpha. And I really hope that he doesn't just think of me as just some other girl whom he'll one day drop (snap) like that or just disappear on. (Sidebar: MA, alpha, any advice on how to keep him around? Can I control that at all?)

 

Like an onion, he's got a lot of layers. And as I peel each away, I like him more.

 

Yes KANGA, it all about the layers. Me and my buddy are hitting the bar in a bit to meet some chicks but if u send me a PM with more details I can help u out on how to keep him around. But i don't make any guarantees. I can prob reply tomorrow.

 

alpha

[tigerskye]

I did not read the whole post but I think you should wait for the girl to call. She will call if she wants to. My friend is going through this and she just wants to have her space!

[iceisles]

Originally posted by tigerskye

I did not read the whole post but I think you should wait for the girl to call. She will call if she wants to. My friend is going through this and she just wants to have her space!

 

I have never been good at giving space. I think I best learn how to, lest history will keep repeating itself.

[tigerskye]

Originally posted by iceisles

 

 

I have never been good at giving space. I think I best learn how to, lest history will keep repeating itself.

 

 

Well you better learn

 

The friend i have that this is happening to where the guy keeps calling her and not giving her her space is making her so mad!

[iceisles]

Originally posted by tigerskye

Well you better learn

 

The friend i have that this is happening to where the guy keeps calling her and not giving her her space is making her so mad!

 

I was calling twice a week. In retrospect, maybe twice a month would have been better. Space is a very tough thing to judge because it means different things to different people. I think you have to see how far you can push before you get some resistance. I obviously pushed a little too hard, though thankfully I don't think she hates me for it. Honestly, I think she liked the attention but didn't know how to respond to it.

[iceisles]

For the future, what is considered to be a safe calling frequency? I can never seem to strike a good balance. Call too often, and you come off as needy and overbearing. Don't call enough, and the other person thinks you have lost interest. What have you all found to be effective in the past? Once a week? Two or three times a month? Again, this is for people who you are pursuing but don't know all that well. Thanks!

[kanga]

It varies from person to person and by circumstances.

 

I've noticed that I don't mind hearing from him (or her) several times a week if I like the person, either as a friend or as an interest, doesn't matter.

 

But if I'm lukewarm about the person. Maybe he/she isn't really fun or the person is a bit odd or we just don't click -- once a week or so or maybe even less. I really suggest making the contact then waiting for the person to contact you back. Rest for awhile, then in a week or so contact again. If I'm lukewarm and you keep calling me, this will not make me like you more. If you don't anticipate you'll be able to catch the girl in casual situations, like having mutual friends, taking classes together, belonging to the same book club, etc, then I think it's probably best to play it cool.

 

I guess the catch-22 is how do you get them to like you if they don't know you and won't call you back to get to know you so they can like you. That's where you just gotta take it chill and easy. And keep other venues open. I think you should take the lead, but then use your intuition and follow the signs of the person you're interested in.

[blind_otter]

Just me....I like to touch base every day. Doesn't necessarily have to be phone - email, IM, or phone. At least one conversation, even brief.

 

But I am needy hahaha

[iceisles]

Originally posted by blind_otter

I like to touch base every day.

 

It seems like this is heavily cautioned against, though. At least until you've been dating for awhile. Most times people dig themselves into holes by initiating too much contact (like yours truly).

[kanga]

I repeat ... read the cues. Some people like it; some people don't. But, yes, I think it's probably better to contact less than more if you're not sure.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by kanga

I repeat ... read the cues.

 

Easier said than done. For example, how do you read someone who happily responds to your calls and e-mails, but doesn't initiate much contact on their own? Those are some major mixed signals. I think I will err on the side of caution and go conservative from here on out. Maybe one call every 7-10 days or so with future prospects.

[blind_otter]

I usually wait for them to get in touch with me, and then call back. But I have absolutely no game, so if I'm crazy about someone I get all crazy about them - ONLy if they seem the same way. Like kanga said, read the cues.

 

Like, for me, if a guy does that thing where he doesn't call me for 3-4 days after we hang out, he's ditched. I hate games. if you're interested, you're interested, if not, you're not.

 

Personally I think chemistry is the key here.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by iceisles

For the future, what is considered to be a safe calling frequency? I can never seem to strike a good balance. Call too often, and you come off as needy and overbearing. Don't call enough, and the other person thinks you have lost interest. What have you all found to be effective in the past? Once a week? Two or three times a month? Again, this is for people who you are pursuing but don't know all that well. Thanks!

 

 

Never get into calling freguency's. Dating is not a science.

 

If you get their number just call them up and ask them to join you for a cup of coffee (starbucks, etc...) and some stimulating conversation.

 

It's inexpensive and you get to chat with her and get to know her better. Keep the date short and leave on your own. If your interested in her after talking, call her again in a week and setup another date. Take it from there.

 

If she says no or too busy for your coffee date then you know she is not interested. If she is sincere about being busy then let her call you when she is not busy for the date. Don't pursue. Move on.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by blind_otter

I usually wait for them to get in touch with me, and then call back. But I have absolutely no game, so if I'm crazy about someone I get all crazy about them - ONLy if they seem the same way. Like kanga said, read the cues.

 

Like, for me, if a guy does that thing where he doesn't call me for 3-4 days after we hang out, he's ditched. I hate games. if you're interested, you're interested, if not, you're not.

 

Personally I think chemistry is the key here.

 

Looking back, I don't think Jessica (her name) minded me calling. Sure, she never had much time to talk, but she always returned my calls, etc. So part of me was thinking that she wasn't interested because our conversations were usually 5-10 minutes, but part of me questioned why she would even call back if she wasn't interested. I've been blown off many times, and people who do that do not return calls. And she usually replied to my e-mails, minus those that had anything to do with my feelings for her (which I now realize weren't wise to send to begin with). I always felt like I was trying to use a compass in the middle of a room full of magnets - I could never get a true reading.

[iceisles]

Double post deleted.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Move on.

 

This seems to be the most popular phrase on this site. Moving on is great when you have other things lined up, such as backup plans. But moving on past something that may be your only opportunity at the moment is significantly more difficult.

[kanga]

Originally posted by iceisles

Looking back, I don't think Jessica (her name) minded me calling.

 

 

But how often did she initiate the contact with you? For all the times you called and she called back, how many times did she call first? No, she may not have minded the attention of a quick call, but how much effort did she try to get to contact you.

 

As it's been stated already, someone who claims always being too busy is bluffing. When you are interested, you find time.

 

Everything is clearer in hindsight, of course.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by kanga

But how often did she initiate the contact with you? For all the times you called and she called back, how many times did she call first? No, she may not have minded the attention of a quick call, but how much effort did she try to get to contact you.

 

As it's been stated already, someone who claims always being too busy is bluffing. When you are interested, you find time.

 

Everything is clearer in hindsight, of course.

 

She rarely called, though she would e-mail or IM me once or twice a week. I estimate that she returned about 90-95% of my phone calls, which I viewed as outstanding.

 

I agree about being busy, but there was more to it than that. She said several times that she wasn't emotionally ready to date yet. She probably didn't want to see me again until she was ready to date again, and being "busy" was a good way to let me know that she didn't want to get together until she was comfortable. When you know someone likes you, it is very awkward to hang out with them just as friends. I think she knew that.

[kanga]

Originally posted by iceisles

But moving on past something that may be your only opportunity at the moment is significantly more difficult.

 

Then find ways to create new opportunities for yourself. You can ruminate about this and not let go of it. Or you can find ways to keep yourself busy and new things to do. And if you're not in a position of meeting new women, then fine. It's OK not to be fixated on someone every waking hour. I went through a period of about a year where I wasn't really into anyone. The world won't end if you are content with yourself and who you are. Sorry if that sounds too Oprah's Book Club.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by kanga

Then find ways to create new opportunities for yourself. You can ruminate about this and not let go of it. Or you can find ways to keep yourself busy and new things to do. And if you're not in a position of meeting new women, then fine. It's OK not to be fixated on someone every waking hour. I went through a period of about a year where I wasn't really into anyone. The world won't end if you are content with yourself and who you are. Sorry if that sounds too Oprah's Book Club.

 

I do keep busy, but finding someone is that one missing puzzle piece that has eluded me. I don't ruminate about it, but it's certainly important. And I don't think being fixated on anyone is a good thing, even if you are madly in love. I am certainly content with who I am, but I realize that I have a lot to offer someone and it's frustrating when things routinely fall through. It's like I see guys who are verbally (or sadly sometimes physically) abusive to their girlfriends, yet they stay because somehow they still love that person. I, on the other hand, would never treat someone like that, and yet I envy those jerkish type guys because they at least have someone.