She slept with someone while we were separated..

[Darren Steez]

I'm a bit confused, so she wants to date other people so she can re-develop feelings then when she discovers these feelings rediscover them for you?

 

That would be like if I was dating and went out and slept with other girls because I wanted to rediscover the joys of sex hoping that somehow I would then rediscover good sex with my partner.

 

You split up, she banged any guy. He dumped her but she still didn't get back with you. Any talk about rediscovering this, re awaking that, finding oneself is all well and good, you are still married, she wants to date then she can get divorced and do what she wants.

 

So here's the nub of what happened. She wanted to bang someone else, so she "separated" and did it. You didn't do anything..still there, dealing with it, you may not be begging her like you were before but it clearly wasn't a deal breaker, so there in the bar has been set.

 

So now she might want to date to rediscover feelings since she slept with someone and you tacitly allowed it..so now she can date, it probably still wont be a deal breaker to where the bar gets set higher and higher until she's out of sight and out of your reach.

 

Does this go the same for you? Can you go and have sex with someone else, date and have fun and she'll be ok with it?

 

How long is the separation for? Until she magically finds that love for you again? While she's allowed to date other people?

[road]

Your WW was still married and should not be dating. She wants to date and sleep around then she needs to get divorced first.

[aliveagain]

Your the fall back position, you should make other plans. I think she wants to date some more strange. 180, 180, 180, you need to distance yourself from her and cut all contact except for your son. You can't make her love you and you can't nice her back. Talk to a lawyer.

[VeronicaRoss]

I kept waiting for someone to mention this parallel: remember the TV show 'Friends'? I know it was a silly show not your life, but there is something there for you I think. Half the show over the years seemed to be about the ramifications of a couple that had split and he had sex during 'the break'. She was furious and her ego would not allow her to get back together but she still loved him. Because they hadn't agreed on the rules of the break. It wasn't fair to him. She chose her ego over her love for him for years. But it was there.

 

My parents got into a similar bind and both grieved over their split for decades. I think Dad was in his 60s when he finally let go of Mom (he was the one who screwed up). Their break up started a chain of disasters we're all still paying for as a family, break ups aren't always the solution to the problem.

 

I bring it up because while you're getting a lot of advice and a lot of people spending time debating whether what she did was an affair or not, when it comes down to what really matters -- it just doesn't. You screwed up and so did she.

 

The real problem is you need to see her and treat her like a BW too. You 'betrayed' her for years and she's having a really hard time forgiving you. But she's still hanging out so I think you have hope. You have to repair years of damage, not just the month.

 

My advice would be to separate (live separately!) and date again, agreeing your exclusive to each other and this is about figuring out if you want to stay married. Commit to a year. That's enough time for you to truly learn and demonstrate new behavior, her too. Set up regular commitments that make 'doing it right' easier for both of you and include the kids. Maybe a counselor could help you do that.

 

I'd agree that she was done when she separated, most women are. Unfortunately that's usually when a lot of men decide to take us seriously and change because men tend to take actions more seriously than words imho.

 

Sounds like you understand that now. The old tropisms like "women are manipulative, it's in their DNA" gets in the way of reality and the flipside men are trained to discount women, especially housewives, and not take their words seriously. If you want to encourage manipulation, ignore someone so they have to get dramatic to get your attention! This is what happens, she stops taking the relationship seriously because you weren't taking her seriously. Respect and trust are what you need to create. Maybe really for the first time!

 

So focus on her needs, make sure she's also taking care of yours. If both of you have unreasonable expectations then hopefully a counselor would help you understand that.

Edited March 7, 2014 by VeronicaRoss

[The Samurai]

VeronicaRoss>>

Oh, great!!! Just great!!!

So, his wife slept with another guy.. but it's his fault..

"You 'betrayed' her for years"

Wow!! Did he sleep with other women?! I didn't read any where in his post that he did.

 

So, you're saying that if any one is having some hard time in marriage, he/she has the right to go and cheat?!?! Nice nice

 

So, marriage must be perfect, or it's cheating season?!?!

Wonderful

[VeronicaRoss]

VeronicaRoss>>

Oh, great!!! Just great!!!

So, his wife slept with another guy.. but it's his fault..

"You 'betrayed' her for years"

Wow!! Did he sleep with other women?! I didn't read any where in his post that he did.

 

So, you're saying that if any one is having some hard time in marriage, he/she has the right to go and cheat?!?! Nice nice

 

So, marriage must be perfect, or it's cheating season?!?!

Wonderful

 

Nope. Didn't say that at all. I'd leave before I cheat, I'd hope and expect the same of others. But he chooses to be with her. And he screwed up for years and that will take a long time to heal too.

[The Samurai]

Nope. Didn't say that at all. I'd leave before I cheat, I'd hope and expect the same of others. But he chooses to be with her. And he screwed up for years and that will take a long time to heal too.

Aha, I see.

Sorry for my misunderstanding then.

[Scott0310]

To continue to grease the gears here, I have decided to leave my wife. I have a co-worker whom is allowing me to stay in one of his extra rooms at his house and I move in tomorrow (Tuesday). I'm saying goodbye to my kids, something which I should be used to being military and having to deploy or leave on short trips. However, this time it is so much worse and it probably has to do with the fact I'll still be around but just not at home. I've started the 180 and am hopping for the best, but expecting the worst. I feel like I've failed at the only thing that mattered to me in life, and that is my family. STBX can do what ever she feels like, I've removed her from my life for the time being and await judgment.

[road]

To continue to grease the gears here, I have decided to leave my wife. I have a co-worker whom is allowing me to stay in one of his extra rooms at his house and I move in tomorrow (Tuesday). I'm saying goodbye to my kids, something which I should be used to being military and having to deploy or leave on short trips. However, this time it is so much worse and it probably has to do with the fact I'll still be around but just not at home. I've started the 180 and am hopping for the best, but expecting the worst. I feel like I've failed at the only thing that mattered to me in life, and that is my family. STBX can do what ever she feels like, I've removed her from my life for the time being and await judgment.

 

 

 

You moving out while hurt you legally by abandonment when it comes to who gets the house, custody, visitation, CS.

[Scott0310]

You moving out while hurt you legally by abandonment when it comes to who gets the house, custody, visitation, CS.

 

 

Road, actually with me being Military, I'm not bound by those laws per say. We live on base, so there is no "who gets the house" actually if anything the base will force her out within 30 days, she'll also lose her visa and have to return to the states (if we divorce). And seeing as how we are both from California, there is no "abandonment" by CA law we have to be physically separated for 6 months to be legally illegible for a divorce.

[road]

Road, actually with me being Military, I'm not bound by those laws per say. We live on base, so there is no "who gets the house" actually if anything the base will force her out within 30 days, she'll also lose her visa and have to return to the states (if we divorce). And seeing as how we are both from California, there is no "abandonment" by CA law we have to be physically separated for 6 months to be legally illegible for a divorce.

 

 

 

Talk a military lawyer where you are and with one back home before you make a decision.

[Scott0310]

So getting back on the “affair” topic, and I only “” affair because it was so short lived, I see from other posts that many WS’s label this as a “fog” meaning they are currently blinded by the new person and all of their attribute from which they are lacking at the home front. This fog blinds the WS for a while they indulge in their affair, most of the only to be either hurt by the person they are seeing or realizing their mistake and trying to come back to the spouse whom they left.

 

I have a question more for the people maybe if you want to, did the person you cheated on ever ask for the details? Would you give them the details? Reason being the aforementioned email I have from my wife’s conversation with this OM and the detail it goes into to which 50 shades of grey might want it, is it fair for me to ask her how much of it is true and asking for clarification on some of the things said??

If you’ve read the previous posts, my current situation is more in my control now, I moved out for a few weeks, only came back because of the distance from which I was living and not being able to participate in my kids afterschool activities. The day I came back, I sat her down and told her I was done trying to get her to give me a second chance, and I did not think I was able to be her friend right now, which I think is a big culprit to why I getting mixed signals from her. Basically I told her I was done, I’m not going to pursue her anymore and talk to her as little as possible. I’m guessing this hit her because the next morning she came over to me, kind of gave me a hug and said she wants to try marriage counseling, to which I almost replied “no”. She knows I want to know the details to what they did, for me it almost acts as a sense of closure, meaning without the details, sometimes my mind starts going on what happened between them and since I don’t know, my imagination tends to run wild, and sometimes it just plain old hurts.

 

Should I just give this time before I start to ask her what happened? Does this kind of thing get brought up in normal MC? I’m giving her the time she needs I think, and I sometimes think its going well, maybe even in my favor kind of. I know it won’t work without MC and we start in a week, but I have to know the details of the affair, I sometimes feel like I cant/don’t want to move on without knowing. Part of me I think is mad not because she did them, but she did them with someone else instead of me…yeah I lost my man card somewhere, its ok to laugh.

[Spectre]

Well, she knows you want details and refuses to give them, that is a red flag. Of course the bigger red flag is that she cheated on you. Why stay with her? Reading your original post, you surely were not divorced and were not separated a very long time before she was already screwing another man. If her vows meant that little to her, why bother trying to get back with her?

 

Why not go find a woman who will not betray you and cheat on you? Do you not think you deserve that?

[petee]

Scott, I too am military and am currently deployed to the sandpit. To coin a phrase you'll be familiar with, just slightly altered......walk with honour, walk with dignity. None of us are perfect, but it doesn't give our wives and closest the right to 'play away' and expect no consequence.

You sound level headed, maliable and adaptable; AND able to act and chance as circumstances dictate. You've identified where you can improve, you're acting on it and she's out there again misbehaving.........ENDEX.

Moving in with your mate starts the rest of your life mate, live life. I think one day when she reflects she'll see that she's let herself, you and most importantly the kids down.

 

You are worth more than this, with honor and dignity prepare to move.....move!

[road]

All BH's want to know what happened. They do vary on how much they want to know.

 

 

So it is the BH that controls how much detail that they need. Remember that once a question has been answered the answer can never be unheard.

 

 

Unanswered questions will haunt you for over 30 years from D day.

[Spectre]

I must be stupid or crazy. I am not looking to cause any arguments...just offering a perspective that is different from many who have posted on this thread.

 

I believe that if there was no agreement to refrain from dating or sleeping with others during a separation, it is not cheating if one of the spouses decides to look for someone else. Sure, a separated couple is still technically married but only on paper. Plenty of separated people date others all the time, without being condemned by their spouses. It all depends on how the couple views a separation.

 

If I separated from my husband and he wanted to work things out, he would explicitly tell me that he didn't want either of us dating or sleeping with others unless he didn't care. I wouldn't hold it against my husband if we were apart and he slept with someone else, if we did not make some kind of agreement not to do so.

 

I'm sorry, but no: in a situation like this you NEVER assume it is okay to go and sleep around. If you need to sleep with another man so badly during a separation then discuss it with your husband first, otherwise you might as well stop calling it a separation and start calling it a divorce. You say there was no agreement to refrain, there was no agreement to sleep around either. When it comes to things like marriage, common sense tells you that you should probably discuss this before assuming you can sleep around. If they were just bf/gf that is one thing, but husband and wife? No, sorry, if you intend to be sleeping with others then you make that known before you go out and do it.

 

You say people can do date during separation, okay. If one spouse says "I am going to date others" and the other spouse says "I am okay with that" and then later on gets mad, that is one thing. That..is not what happened.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Spectre

[petee]

I'm sorry, but no: in a situation like this you NEVER assume it is okay to go and sleep around. If you need to sleep with another man so badly during a separation then discuss it with your husband first, otherwise you might as well stop calling it a separation and start calling it a divorce. You say there was no agreement to refrain, there was no agreement to sleep around either. When it comes to things like marriage, common sense tells you that you should probably discuss this before assuming you can sleep around. If they were just bf/gf that is one thing, but husband and wife? No, sorry, if you intend to be sleeping with others then you make that known before you go out and do it.

 

Outstanding response to something that reads incredibly badly and is inconsistant with general relationship behaviour.

[sidney2718]

If you’ve read the previous posts, my current situation is more in my control now, I moved out for a few weeks, only came back because of the distance from which I was living and not being able to participate in my kids afterschool activities. The day I came back, I sat her down and told her I was done trying to get her to give me a second chance, and I did not think I was able to be her friend right now, which I think is a big culprit to why I getting mixed signals from her. Basically I told her I was done, I’m not going to pursue her anymore and talk to her as little as possible. I’m guessing this hit her because the next morning she came over to me, kind of gave me a hug and said she wants to try marriage counseling, to which I almost replied “no”. She knows I want to know the details to what they did, for me it almost acts as a sense of closure, meaning without the details, sometimes my mind starts going on what happened between them and since I don’t know, my imagination tends to run wild, and sometimes it just plain old hurts.

 

Should I just give this time before I start to ask her what happened? Does this kind of thing get brought up in normal MC? I’m giving her the time she needs I think, and I sometimes think its going well, maybe even in my favor kind of. I know it won’t work without MC and we start in a week, but I have to know the details of the affair, I sometimes feel like I cant/don’t want to move on without knowing. Part of me I think is mad not because she did them, but she did them with someone else instead of me…yeah I lost my man card somewhere, its ok to laugh.

 

Details are a tricky subject. As someone said downthread, once heard they can never be unheard. But unheard details turn into awful imaginings. So this is a question only you can answer.

 

Why won't she tell you? Lots of reasons. But they break down into two major groups. The first is that she's sure that if she tells you you'll so upset that you'll be out the door and gone. The second is that she's afraid that the details were so lousy that she'd be embarrassed. A lesser reason is that she strongly feels that it is none of your business.

In more blunt words it could have been the best sex of her life doing things she'd never done with you or it could have been the worst, most embarrassing sex of her life and there is so much shame associated with it that she'll never tell.

 

Your main weapon in this would be a refusal to consider reconciliation without it. That's a very strong step and may not work out the way you'd want it too.

 

I think that you can bring this up at your first meeting with the marriage counselor. He may urge you to drop it or not.

 

I know that this isn't the firm advice that you want, but it is the best I can do. I'm rooting for you. Hang in there!

[sidney2718]

Well, she knows you want details and refuses to give them, that is a red flag. Of course the bigger red flag is that she cheated on you. Why stay with her? Reading your original post, you surely were not divorced and were not separated a very long time before she was already screwing another man. If her vows meant that little to her, why bother trying to get back with her?

 

Why not go find a woman who will not betray you and cheat on you? Do you not think you deserve that?

 

We do not know the emotional atmosphere when separation was being discussed. But it is clear that you know something that most of the rest of us don't. Where do I look to find a woman who will not betray me and cheat on me? Don't keep it a secret. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting this information.

[Oberfeldwebel]

Scott,

 

As you know all successful relationships have to have a level of honesty. If there is no honesty, then there is no trust. If you have no trust, you have no relationship. Your stbx has not been honest with you in awhile. The separation was pre-planned to give here the ability to see the other man. That is not to say that you didn't make mistakes in the relationship, but the cheating is all on her. If she can't be honest with you, then there can't be a reconciliation.

 

If she had been roused by the OM and had remorse, then the relationship has a chance. However, if she can't admit to her transgression and be honest to you then there is nothing to build on to the future. She is likely to go through of period of going from a variety of fulfilling relationships, before she realizes what a mess she has made of this whole thing. She may or may not be ready for a relationship with you at the end. Until then, you need to disengage from her and only answer questions of legal, financial or issues about the children.

[Spectre]

We do not know the emotional atmosphere when separation was being discussed. But it is clear that you know something that most of the rest of us don't. Where do I look to find a woman who will not betray me and cheat on me? Don't keep it a secret. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting this information.

 

You are right we don't know, but I think there are certain things in life that are foolish to assume. This is one of them. You should never assume it is okay to sleep around. It is one thing if you both have a discussion and decide it is okay, but NEVER assume, not while married anyways.

 

As for your comment about where to find a woman who will not cheat or betray, I feel you know what I meant when I said that. There are plenty of women out there who will not cheat on you, etc. There are plenty of women with enough respect for themselves and others that they would walk away from a relationship before cheating. There is no specific place to go meet these women. The only thing the OP can know for sure is which women are NOT this type, and his ex definitely falls onto that list.

[Scott0310]

When we separated she has asked me if it was ok for her to date. She my have mis-construded what I meant when I told her I did not like the idea of her dating and most certainly not sleeping with someone (especially if she is telling me she needs time to herself, who needs time to themselves;...but dates?) to mean that I was ok with it. Every time it came up in a conversation I told her I did not like her nor want her to do it, she ended up telling me that my constant "begging" for a second chance and pursuant of her led her to being with this other guy.

 

We went out (family day) down to london for the day to just walk around and unfortunately having ended a really fun day the conversation on the way home led from one thing to us talking about what she did. I do want as many details as she will tell me, bad thing is it would actually make me feel better that she tell me rather then me wonder. I'm different in that aspect, if I know details, usually I can let **** go and heal. Although over the past week or so, I've experienced things around the house and out which could be considered "triggers" meaning something is triggering me to think about what went on, and by that point my imagination tends to take off. On the car ride home it got really quite, she sobbed for a little bit then fell asleep (it was a 2 hour drive almost and was close to 11pm).

 

I guess I'm ok with happened tonight, the other week when I told her I need to keep myself distant and us not be friends, she has bushed her way back into being friends, almost isnt giving me MY alone time. When I told her i was done, giving up pursuing her and didnt want to be her friend, her whole mood changed as I had said, but over the past week or so she has tried to bring everything back, knowing I dont want it right now I think I may have pushed the conversation tonight to break us back off apart....I just dont know, and now I'm on here venting lol.

[Oberfeldwebel]

I got to tell you dude, I think the girl is playing you. The dating conversation was a ruse, she already had that pony saddled up and ready to ride. Her tears was a diversion from her transgression and to garner sympathy. You wanted limited contact and she put you back on the plan B list. I highly recommend that you have limited contact until she is ready to get rid of all OM, become transparent with all media and passwords, and show remorse for what she has done wrong. To short cut this issue will only lead to you being in limbo land.

[road]

I got to tell you dude, I think the girl is playing you. The dating conversation was a ruse, she already had that pony saddled up and ready to ride. Her tears was a diversion from her transgression and to garner sympathy. You wanted limited contact and she put you back on the plan B list. I highly recommend that you have limited contact until she is ready to get rid of all OM, become transparent with all media and passwords, and show remorse for what she has done wrong. To short cut this issue will only lead to you being in limbo land.

 

 

 

This is what I said. She had the OM lined up if not already riding him.

[10thengineerharrison]

How long were you two separated before she started seeing this guy? She technically didn't cheat on you.

 

What does that mean? Of course it's cheating, they're still married.

 

-10th Engineer Harrison