Spains Catholic Church Drops Opposition to Condoms

[HokeyReligions]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/headline/world/2999664

[Moose]

That doesn't surprise me.

[Mr Spock]

I am please the catholic church, at least at some level, is finally doing something responsible.

[HokeyReligions]

This is the Catholic Church in Spain.

 

"....The Catholic Church has repeatedly rebuffed campaigns for it to endorse the use of condoms in the fight against AIDS. The Vatican states that condoms, because they are a form of artificial birth control, cannot be used to help prevent the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS..."

 

".....There was no comment from the Vatican to the Spanish statement...."

 

"...The leading daily El Pais pointed out that as recently as November the Spanish Bishops Conference had vehemently opposed the Health Ministry's campaign to promote the use of condoms....

 

At least its a start (although I suspect there are many catholics who already use condoms!)

[quankanne]

from the wire story: Martinez Camino met the health minister as a representative of the church, though it was unclear whether he was expressing the official view of the church

 

 

no No NO!!!! The Catholic Church will never, ever endorse the use of artificial contraception, even in instances like these. It just goes against their "policy." What a Catholic practices can be completely different from what the Church upholds, and believe you me, the Church isn't going to change it's mind in the matter of months. At least not without a hell of a lot of argument and/or discussion. Even if it did reverse its course, it's very unlikely that this generation of faithful would be around to see it!

 

whoever filed this wire story apparently doesn't realize how the Church works, that "local" branches cannot act independently but still claim to "follow" church tenets. Either you do, or you don't, no grey areas whatsoever.

 

I imagine the Vatican response is being worked on, and will vehemently declare this to be an action that goes against Church beliefs. I recommend taking this with a HUGE grain of salt -- as much as people clamor for change or improvement, the Church has operated pretty much the same way since the beginnings of Christianity.

[tattoomytoe]

this is why i am glad i am Lutheran!

[quankanne]

 

and that is precisely why I'm grateful to be Catholic: it's a steady, unyielding way of belief that has weathered turbulence around it. There's no flip-flopping, no second-guessing on issues, you know exactly where the church stands on issue. And that makes it easier for me to practice my faith ....

[dyermaker]

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that traditions long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; However, it is time for the Catholic Church to reevaluate its position on contraception.

 

It is not a function of relativism, but a function of circumstance--part of evaluating morality. It is no longer moral to have many children, as overpopulation threatens our entire planet and is contrary to the stewardship we are called to act upon. Additionally, the Church's alternative isn't really accessible to all--especially those in third world countries. I dread the idea of Grace being an elitist privelege.

 

Catholics are called to follow conscience--and it is not sinful to go against Rome if your conscience leads you away from it.

[quankanne]

It is no longer moral to have many children, as overpopulation threatens our entire planet and is contrary to the stewardship we are called to act upon

 

what about the morality of remaining chaste until entering the union of marriage? I don't think you can argue the Catholic church's position against birth control without arguing its demand for abstinence. Birth control allows people to make an end run around abstinence because pregnancy is a tell-tale sign of sexual activity. Which is a huge part of the reason why the Church will remain dead-set against birth control.

 

over-population is addressed when it encourages married couples to practice natural familly planning, allowing THEM the opportunity to decide if they want to achieve or postpone pregnancy, based on the couple knowing how their body works and working with it. Ideally, it's supposed to create a stronger bond between the couple, because they're BOTH conscientiously deciding to bring a new life into the world, not "oops, looky what happened!"

 

it is not sinful to go against Rome if your conscience leads you away from it

 

I'm sure Martin Luther and King Henry VIII felt the same way!

 

seriously, though, that's why we've had the great split leading to Catholicism and Protestantism. People knew what was better for them, they opted to follow their beliefs rather than the guidelines the Church gave them. Their choice, but to say the Catholic Church needs to change to suit the people's needs only argues the case for trying to make it into a Protestant vehicle, and we've got enough splintered branches of religion to show what "creative differences" lead to.

 

I don't think the Church should cave in to demands of those Catholics who say it needs to "catch up with the times." She is going to outlive all of us – she's been around long enough to prove that.

 

that's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it ....

[BrainRightHeartWrong]

sorry for this simplistic post...

 

but i am from good old green catholic Ireland ( well most of it anyway )

 

i haven't met a catholic whom actually followed the catholic church regarding this issue... seriously!

 

now i went to a christian brothers school ( very catholic for those who don't know! )

 

they never ever said that we shouldn't use contraception nor did they endorse it

 

instead their main issue was opposition to abortion! i.e in a way it was saying please use contraception!

 

now i know a lot of Spaniards that live here now, they are a little bit more conservative regarding sex more than we are i think but not to the extent that most of them would follow the old catholic church teachings regarding contraception!

 

just my bit of info on catholics and Spaniards for the majority of you yankee loveshackers!

 

[dyermaker]

it is not sinful to go against Rome if your conscience leads you away from it

 

This was not just my unqualified opinion, I was echoing Catholic Doctrine, among the most positive and significant contributions to spiritual understanding, in my opinion.

 

The following is from 'Your Life In Christ: Foundations of Catholic Morality' by Michael Pennock, 2001. At the National Conference of Catholic Bishops it was found to be in conformity with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and it is free of Doctrinal or Moral error.

 

Your Life In Christ, Page 138

Remember that through your conscience, God calls you to be the person he made you to be. Through your conscience God instructs you how to act in the concrete decision you have before you. If you go against what your conscience tells you, you are ignoring the voice of God... We must always follow the dictates of our conscience, even if it is erroneous... Conscience is never perfectly formed; it is always forming by staying informed. If you follow your conscience in good faith, even if you later find out that it was objectively mistaken, you are not guilty of sin. On the other hand, if you violate your conscience--even if you later find out it was wrong--you are guilty. This is because conscience is sacred.

[/Quote]

 

 

The following might also be relevant:

 

Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1778

Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right (emphasis added). It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law.

 

Church of the Modern World, 16

In the depths of his conscience, man detects a law which he does not impose upon himself, but which holds him to obedience. Always summoning him to love good and avoid evil, the voice of conscience can when necessary speak to his heart more specifically: do this, shun that. For man has in his heart a law written by God. To obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it will he be judged... Conscience frequently errs from invincible ignorance without losing its dignity.

[quankanne]

In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right (emphasis added). It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law

 

so God says it's okay to use birth control in whatever form it needs to be used, and Rome is a bunch of prigs trying to get into people's bedrooms?

 

I believe those matters of conscience, or "doing the right thing," applies more to situations like turning in pedophile priests and stopping immoral and illegal acts of sexual abuse of their flock, rather than "it's okay to use a rubber for X reason, but not Y or Z."

 

mind you, I've had a priest tell me that he personally doesn't feel he should tell married couples how to practice their sexuality because that's between the two of them, only that he asks they use the best informed judgment they have access to ... which, to me, means looking at all the options, like NFP, to decide when to bring children into their marriage.

 

however, Father Steve's "I'm not interested in what goes on in their bedroom" in no way reflects the Church's position on abstinence, birth control, married sexuality or even abortion. They're offering -- and upholding -- absolutes. Whether people follow them, is a whole other matter. Which is why you will never see or hear a news story saying the Church has rethought it's position on birth control. Or abortion. Ever.

 

they never ever said that we shouldn't use contraception nor did they endorse it

 

prolly didn't mention it because they didn't want a bunch of horny little boys on their hands!!!!

 

… instead their main issue was opposition to abortion! i.e in a way it was saying please use contraception!

 

*groan* that's like saying "A vote for Kerry is a vote against Bush" or "My vote is going to cancel out yours."

 

I really don't think a bunch of religious are going to encourage the use of birth control, either outright or implicitly.

 

you yankee loveshackers!

 

sorry, Texans will never, ever be considered Yankees. We are a breed unto ourselves ...

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by quankanne

 

 

whoever filed this wire story apparently doesn't realize how the Church works, that "local" branches cannot act independently but still claim to "follow" church tenets. Either you do, or you don't, no grey areas whatsoever.

 

I imagine the Vatican response is being worked on, and will vehemently declare this to be an action that goes against Church beliefs. I recommend taking this with a HUGE grain of salt -- as much as people clamor for change or improvement, the Church has operated pretty much the same way since the beginnings of Christianity.

 

Yes, I saw a follow-up story saying basically the same thing and admonishing Martinez Camino for his 'rash words'.

[quankanne]

from today's Catholic News Service website:

 

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0500360.htm

 

leads off with "Spain's bishops said they have not changed their opinion about condoms and regard their use in any situation as 'immoral sexual conduct.'"

 

further down in the story, it notes that "Some bishops' conferences – including some in Africa, where AIDS is most prevalent – have said that within the context of a marriage in which one partner is HIV-positive use of a condom to prevent transmission to the spouse is the lesser of two evils …"

 

and that some moral theologians "believe that the use of condoms within married relationships can sometimes be justified" because it's used as a measure of health protection.

 

nowhere does it say, imply or infer that condom use as a method of birth control is approved by the church!

_

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by quankanne

In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right (emphasis added). It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law

 

so God says it's okay to use birth control in whatever form it needs to be used, and Rome is a bunch of prigs trying to get into people's bedrooms?

 

I believe those matters of conscience, or "doing the right thing," applies more to situations like turning in pedophile priests and stopping immoral and illegal acts of sexual abuse of their flock, rather than "it's okay to use a rubber for X reason, but not Y or Z."

What they are saying--and it's pretty explicit--is that sin is personal--as our conscience is the authority and not Rome. This is not an alternative viewpoint, or my interpretation, it's straight from the Vatican--they recognize that Conscience is more sacred than tradition.