We're not exclusive

[CalvinM]

So I went down to Kingston (about two hours away) to see her this weekend. Her (27) and I (32) ordered in take out and spent a few hours on the couch cuddling before moving to the bedroom where we consummated the relationship. We'd been intimate before (oral, petting, etc, but hadn't had sex yet). She had been the one the last few times to initiate sex, but I felt ready, so I initiated.

 

She was very affectionate afterwards, more than usual. I'm not big on cuddling, but with her it felt comfortable. She told me after that it was nice being with someone who knows what he's doing.

 

Monday morning was a holiday so we spent most of the morning/early afternoon in bed. Eventually we got hungry so we showered (together), then went downtown for food. The brunch place we wanted to go to was closed, so we eventually went for burgers.

 

The Olympics were on and they were showing the skating. She commented that the Canadians were scammed out of the gold and how upset she was. I agreed, but had seen it before with Sale and Pelletier at Salt Lake, so I wasn't shocked. I didn't really have anything to add and was hungry, so just stayed quiet.

 

She kept going on about it, but I interrupted her and said that I thought things were going well and asked her if she thought we were heading towards being exclusive. She said she'd like things between us to be exclusive, but that it was a big step because to her it means the relationship has the potential to be long term and that she wants to see how we interact in public, what our chemistry is like beyond mutual interests in social settings. That seemed fair to me.

 

Then she mentioned that her friend was pushing her to see someone there. She said they've only been for coffee a couple times and that she doesn't have plans at this point to see him again, but that she likes me a lot more.

 

Her friends know about me, but this one friend in particular doesn't think she should be serious with a guy who lives out of town, which I guess is fair given she probably doesn't know me or my intentions, but also seems like maybe she should let her friend decide for herself and not try to push her to meet random guys when she's technically in a relationship. It's a real grey area.

 

The last time I was down she had mentioned it in passing, saying it wasjust coffee, and also said that she really didn't feel the way about him that she does with us and that she wanted to focus more on our relationship and take things a day at a time. Regardless, it was still a surprise, since on our second date she asked me if I was seeing other people and I said one other person, but that it wasn't serious and she mentioned she only sees one person at a time.

 

I told her I'd never ask her to stop seeing someone else, but that if we were going to continue to be intimate, that I'd feel more comfortable if we focus on things between us. I just want us to be on the same page and a huge part of a long distance relationship is trust, especially with intimacy involved and I don't want to invest further if she's seeing other guys on the side.

 

She viewed it as a bit of an ultimatum and said she wants time to think about things. I get the feeling she's either waiting for me to relocate there (which I discussed in another thread prior to meeting her), since she asked Sunday night how serious I was about moving there or she's holding out for something better and maybe I should cut my loses.

 

Edit: tl;dr: I've been dating for almost two months, she's very affectionate. We have a lot of chemistry and had sex for the first time this weekend, but she's seeing another guy for coffee. I'd like to be exclusive if we're going to continue sleeping together, she's not ready yet and wants time to think about things.

Edited February 18, 2014 by CalvinM

[mr_dave]

Well her wanting you to commit to moving there is a hell of a stretch if she can't commit to only seeing you for a while.

Why is she shifting the blame on her friend? If her friend egged her on to cheat would she do it?

 

 

She said she'd like things between us to be exclusive, but that it was a big step because to her it means the relationship has the potential to be long term and that she wants to see how we interact in public, what our chemistry is like beyond mutual interests in social settings.

 

That sounds like a load of vague codswallop to be honest. How you interact in public? How is that different to in social settings? Can you elaborate?

[CalvinM]

I'm assuming she meant how I interact with her friends, the conversational flow.

 

On our third date we went for dinner and she talked, while I mostly listened. In all honesty, she talks a lot and I find it hard sometimes to get a word in. Also when I do, she sometimes likes to debate and I'm not always up for it because she can get a bit competitive.

 

On the second date we had a bet going that she lost and it seemed like she really enjoyed the debate, which was fun for me as well because it was playful, but also sometimes I like to just listen. She's very intelligent and I feel like there's a lot she knows about things that I'm interested in, so adding my two cents isn't always as beneficial as asking questions and absorbing the information.

 

Yesterday morning she was discussing the differences between blended whisky and single malt. I don't know much about whisky, so it makes more sense to ask questions and then listen to her answers, if that makes sense.

 

The feeling I got was that she wants to see how we are when we're doing things outside of our mutual interests. She wants to see how well we compliment each other and how well the conversation flows.

[TMichaels]

I guess I don't understand the situation, here.

 

In your other thread you said you had applied for a transfer at work to be closer to her and she was considering postponing her internship or whatever in England because of that news, yet you mentioned nothing about any of that being part of what you two talked about when you visited her this past weekend.

 

Is that true? If so, why wasn't that part of your discussion?

 

TBH, it sounds to me that *neither* of you are sure there's enough of a connection at this point to make any life-altering decisions. Actually, there's nothing wrong with that and to be expected since you barely know each other and haven't been seeing each other long.

 

The only way both of you will be able to determine whether there's something worth pursuing long-term is to spend more time with each other. Until there's a deeper connection and mutual commitment, there's no sense to being exclusive.

 

For some reason, it sounds like you/her want it to be the other way around: "Let's be exclusive, and then we can get to know each other." Pardon my French, but you have that all @ss-backwards.

 

I also think what's muddying the waters between the two of you is that you've been intimate. If you don't want this relationship to turn in nothing more than an expensive, LD booty call, then I think you need to dial back on that and be up front with her about why -- and I don't mean saying it in a way that it sounds like an ultimatum.

 

So what should you do?

 

I think you need to slow down and quit trying to put the cart before the horse. In a way, I think this is what her g/f is getting at when she is advising her not to put all her eggs in one basket (as in you).

 

If you do decide to move, do it NOT solely because of her. If you do, you're prematurely putting too much pressure on the relationship which increases the odds it will self-destruct.

 

I guess what I am trying to say to you is that you need to back off and approach this all in a more casual way. Things will either unfold naturally, or they won't. That's just one of the chances you take in exploring any relationship. You win some and you lose some, as they say.

 

You also need to be careful about "balance." Don't get into the trap of being the one who's putting in all the effort in the relationship. You ought to both be pulling your weight. Right now it sounds like you're working harder than she is at trying to fan the flames. If that continues, you're going to be the one licking your wounds.

 

HTH,

TMichaels

[mammasita]

I told her I'd never ask her to stop seeing someone else, but that if we were going to continue to be intimate

 

In my world its perfectly fine to ask someone to be exclusive (i.e. STOP seeing other people) when you become intimate....IMO before you insert penis into vagina.

[CalvinM]

I guess I don't understand the situation, here.

 

In your other thread you said you had applied for a transfer at work to be closer to her and she was considering postponing her internship or whatever in England because of that news, yet you mentioned nothing about any of that being part of what you two talked about when you visited her this past weekend.

 

Is that true? If so, why wasn't that part of your discussion?

 

TBH, it sounds to me that *neither* of you are sure there's enough of a connection at this point to make any life-altering decisions. Actually, there's nothing wrong with that and to be expected since you barely know each other and haven't been seeing each other long.

 

The only way both of you will be able to determine whether there's something worth pursuing long-term is to spend more time with each other. Until there's a deeper connection and mutual commitment, there's no sense to being exclusive.

 

For some reason, it sounds like you/her want it to be the other way around: "Let's be exclusive, and then we can get to know each other." Pardon my French, but you have that all @ss-backwards.

 

I also think what's muddying the waters between the two of you is that you've been intimate. If you don't want this relationship to turn in nothing more than an expensive, LD booty call, then I think you need to dial back on that and be up front with her about why -- and I don't mean saying it in a way that it sounds like an ultimatum.

 

So what should you do?

 

I think you need to slow down and quit trying to put the cart before the horse. In a way, I think this is what her g/f is getting at when she is advising her not to put all her eggs in one basket (as in you).

 

If you do decide to move, do it NOT solely because of her. If you do, you're prematurely putting too much pressure on the relationship which increases the odds it will self-destruct.

 

I guess what I am trying to say to you is that you need to back off and approach this all in a more casual way. Things will either unfold naturally, or they won't. That's just one of the chances you take in exploring any relationship. You win some and you lose some, as they say.

 

You also need to be careful about "balance." Don't get into the trap of being the one who's putting in all the effort in the relationship. You ought to both be pulling your weight. Right now it sounds like you're working harder than she is at trying to fan the flames. If that continues, you're going to be the one licking your wounds.

 

HTH,

TMichaels

I was so focused on all this exclusivity talk that I left out the stuff about her postponing the trip. I asked her about it and she said because of a mild medical issue she didnt want to be away from her support in a strange country if it reoccurs. She also mentioned that she wants to stay in Kingston for the summer because of camping and concerts (she asked if I'd be interested in camping and mentioned a few concerts, so maybe that one is with me in mind). Thirdly, her lease ends early next year so she wouldn't have to find someone to sublet her apartment. Her supervisor is leaving over the summer and she wants to stay around to absorb as much as she can before she leaves.

[CalvinM]

She was online now, so I just sent her this message:

 

"hey, I know you said you wanted time to think and you're welcome to that, but I've been looking at things from the wrong perspective and I think I understand completely where you're coming from

 

your rationale makes a lot of sense and I truly believe that what you said yesterday has both of our best interests in mind.. you telling me about the coffee shop guy shows a lot of trust and honesty, something I haven't encountered a lot of while dating, so I hope you continue to be honest, even if it isn't something I'll initially want to hear..it reveals your character and that's always a good thing eventually

 

if I haven't pushed you away completely, I'd like to see you a day at a time and work towards developing better communication in social settings and seeing how we interact conversationally and making our relationship stronger

 

above all else though, I'd like you to know that yes, I am moving to Kingston and am aiming for before the summer, so that I can get settled in and enjoy what the city has to offer/take advantage of clubs and meet new people so that the move is as smooth as possible

 

I know that until we're in the same city asking you for an exclusive commitment is probably out of the question and that's something I'm completely fine with, if it means we can still see each other and spend time together, that's a small price to pay"

[CalvinM]

And her response

 

"Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I get the impression from your change in stance that perhaps your emotions aren't quite settled yet. It seems that your response is a bit reactionary and perhaps you might be trying to say whatever you feel is "right'. I'm going to suggest that we take another day or so to mull this over. Meanwhile I will gather my thoughts a bit more and I should have a response for you within a day or so."

 

What's the likelihood that she's using this time to think to figure out what it'll take to get us to a point where we're both on the same page both geographically and physically? Where she's confident enough not to need to see people on the side, as opposed to using it to put space between us before breaking up or backing off from feeling pressured?

She did say she wants us to get to that point, but also said she was feeling pressured.

[justwhoiam]

She said she'd like things between us to be exclusive, but that it was a big step because to her it means the relationship has the potential to be long term and that she wants to see how we interact in public, what our chemistry is like beyond mutual interests in social settings. That seemed fair to me.

That sounds like total crap to me. And I'm a woman.

 

"Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I get the impression from your change in stance that perhaps your emotions aren't quite settled yet. It seems that your response is a bit reactionary and perhaps you might be trying to say whatever you feel is "right'. I'm going to suggest that we take another day or so to mull this over. Meanwhile I will gather my thoughts a bit more and I should have a response for you within a day or so."

Just some more crap for you to deal with.

 

I'll tell you what I think: she's too rational. Too rational to show any real feeling there. I sense it.

[CalvinM]

So what's my plan of action here, walk away? Cash in my chips?

 

Go to Kingston next weekend and not see her?

[justwhoiam]

She needs to want you. Like WANT you and want YOU.

 

Before that, you have nothing. And actually, by giving her what she wants without no strings attached, you are facilitating whatever is on her mind.

[CalvinM]

My response

 

"You're completely right, I was. Which isn't fair to either of us. I don't feel like we're both on the same page and that's preventing me from feeling completely comfortable with you. It has only been a month, but I feel things have progressed to a point where we should know how we feel about each other and I'm sensing trepidation in you if you feel the need to see other people on the side.

 

What I need at this point is for us to focus on getting you to express what you want and are willing to do/can compromise on truthfully. As long as we both know where the other stands, better decisions can be made."

Edited February 20, 2014 by CalvinM
spelling

[CalvinM]

Well, she ended things. I can't be too surprised.

 

Thanks for the insight.

[TMichaels]

And her response

 

"Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I get the impression from your change in stance that perhaps your emotions aren't quite settled yet. It seems that your response is a bit reactionary and perhaps you might be trying to say whatever you feel is "right'. I'm going to suggest that we take another day or so to mull this over. Meanwhile I will gather my thoughts a bit more and I should have a response for you within a day or so."

 

Man! Talk about cold and impersonal. Did this chick talk to you like this all the time? Who does she think she is? The only superior, intelligent life left on the planet?

 

"My response

 

"You're completely right, I was. Which isn't fair to either of us. I don't feel like we're both on the same page and that's preventing me from feeling completely comfortable with you. It has only been a month, but I feel things have progressed to a point where we should know how we feel about each other and I'm sensing trepidation in you if you feel the need to see other people on the side.

 

What I need at this point is for us to focus on getting you to express what you want and are willing to do/can compromise on truthfully. As long as we both know where the other stands, better decisions can be made."

 

Well, I have to say that if I read this, you come across equally "icily" and I can see why she said she thought you were issuing ultimatums.

 

If I didn't know better, it sounds like the two of you were negotiating a business deal not in the thralls of exploring a possible new relationship. In the past two months, did you two ever make each other laugh, smile, tease each other, get a twinkle in your eye? Doesn't sound like it. If so, not surprising if things went south.

 

"Well, she ended things. I can't be too surprised.

 

To be honest, I think you dodged a bullet.

 

I mean please... Who gets up in the morning and has a serious debate about the merits of single malt vs. blended whiskey with a possible suitor who's just visiting for the weekend?

 

Maybe you find that sort of exchange intellectually stimulating; if so, to each his/her own. But, I have a feeling that once you got past the stage of politely listening and contemplating her unending points of view, you probably would have had to work hard to resist the temptation to duct tape her mouth shut.

 

From what you've shared, it sounds like this woman is so wrapped up in hearing the sound of her own voice (whether she truly thinks she's superior or just monopolizes every conversation as a defense mechanism so no one can get close or discover the "real her") that she's not interested in or capable of much else.

 

Or, she totally lacks the ability to be honest -- or perhaps thinks given the vibes she was giving off, anyone with half a brain, would pick up on that which means she shouldn't have to say more.

 

Why she was so willing to play around and have sex with someone whom from your description she just "tolerated" makes no sense. Why bother"? But I suppose the fact that she did is a good indication of her interests and priorities and there is some obvious value in knowing that.

 

Bottom line, even though you may be disappointed, I don't think you lost out on a whole helluva lot. Be thankful it only took two months. At least you didn't waste two years.

 

You win some and you lose some. Time to turn the page and move on.

 

Best,

TMichaels

Edited February 20, 2014 by TMichaels

[CalvinM]

She wasn't icy in person until Monday morning although she had 'warned' me earlier that she was the type of person who requires a lot of personal space. That should've been a red flag, but I figured it was work related and not an extension of her personality.

 

Believe it or not, we made each other laugh a lot, both in person and while texting. That said, I feel my response above was a result of knowing I was giving more than I got and getting no fluidity when asking what direction things were going in. She actually told me it was better if we just let things happen, which would be fine if I didn't live two hours away or wasn't contemplating a move closer.

 

She's a psychologist, so I don't begrudge her endnote full of advice, potshots or whatever you'd like to call it. It also appeared to be another extension of her multifaceted personality.

[TMichaels]

She wasn't icy in person until Monday morning although she had 'warned' me earlier that she was the type of person who requires a lot of personal space. That should've been a red flag, but I figured it was work related and not an extension of her personality.

 

Seriously? What did you think? That she was telling you she needed a large office to accommodate all her books?

 

Believe it or not, we made each other laugh a lot, both in person and while texting. That said, I feel my response above was a result of knowing I was giving more than I got and getting no fluidity when asking what direction things were going in.

 

Well, you were advised you were pushing things too hard and going too fast, but you still kept at it.

 

She actually told me it was better if we just let things happen, which would be fine if I didn't live two hours away or wasn't contemplating a move closer.

 

So, you weren't potential boyfriend material because you lived too far away, but also weren't boyfriend material when you wouldn't be.

 

Hmmm... Doesn't leave much room for success there, does it?

 

 

She's a psychologist, so I don't begrudge her endnote full of advice, potshots or whatever you'd like to call it. It also appeared to be another extension of her multifaceted personality.

 

Yes, you're right she IS a goddess. No wonder she's on a such a pedestal.

 

 

Best,

TMichaels

Edited February 20, 2014 by TMichaels

[CalvinM]

She sent me a text this morning:

"Seeing as you are coming in on sat anyways, would you take the Whisky tickets? It starts at 6 (for the master class). I am abstaining from alcohol for a little while since it makes my (inner ear) condition worse. I'd like to see them go to a good home."

[CalvinM]

Seriously? What did you think? That she was telling you she needed a large office to accommodate all her books?

 

 

 

Well, you were advised you were pushing things too hard and going too fast, but you still kept at it.

 

 

 

So, you weren't potential boyfriend material because you lived too far away, but also weren't boyfriend material when you wouldn't be.

 

Hmmm... Doesn't leave much room for success there, does it?

 

 

 

 

Yes, you're right she IS a goddess. No wonder she's on a such a pedestal.

 

 

Best,

TMichaels

Yeah, I probably came on too strong. That's a fair assessment.

 

I'd probably do things differently given the chance again, but that's dating. Live and learn.

[justwhoiam]

She sent me a text this morning:

"Seeing as you are coming in on sat anyways, would you take the Whisky tickets? It starts at 6 (for the master class). I am abstaining from alcohol for a little while since it makes my (inner ear) condition worse. I'd like to see them go to a good home."

So, are you going to oblige like an obedient puppy?

[CalvinM]

No. I refused the tickets and made other plans in Kingston this weekend.

[justwhoiam]

would you take the Whisky tickets? It starts at 6

She might well be educated, but she wasn't taught any etiquette.

 

she needs to be the one to come to you now if she wants any chance

She probably can get some with no effort... What she will get is quite arguable.

[CalvinM]

I'm not sure that will ever happen, as nice as it was, she pretty much shot the idea of us even being friends down completely.

 

I still have her as a contact on Facebook though and wonder if that's doing more damage than good.

[OnlyHonesty]

I'm not sure that will ever happen, as nice as it was, she pretty much shot the idea of us even being friends down completely.

 

I still have her as a contact on Facebook though and wonder if that's doing more damage than good.

 

 

Why would you want to be friends with someone who doesn't appreciate your time or persona?

 

My advice, sever all connections period. This woman is bad for you, bad for your esteem and is only interested in keeping her options open. There will come a time where she can no longer do so and perhaps may regret this.

 

In your case, you were too accommodating, there was no reason for her to make the effort, you appear too avaliable, you see her as higher value than yourself and you see her as the prize and see yourself as less.

 

Run for the hills and don't look back. Run....

[CalvinM]

You think she'll try to reconnect?

[nomadic_butterfly]

You think she'll try to reconnect?

 

Why does it even matter? At least 90% of the time when there are conflicting personalities and view points/disagreements this early on into something, it may die down if rekindled for a little bit but eventually the prior issues will resurface.

 

I know it sucks to see someone "give up on something" so easily when in your mind you had a good enough thing going with future potential but the fact still remains she has and will have marginal respect for you especially as a man if you continue to be a jelly back.

 

She's just not that into you and you need to accept this first mentally, then emotionally, and move on to someone who is marching to your same beat. Do you really have that little self-respect that you want to be her backup plan or fall back boy? Find someone who rides the same wavelength as you, is willing to respect you and has requited feelings. Simple.