Kissing others during LDR

[Salvatore]

This might be quite a controversial topic, but I would like to hear some opinions on the following scenario. Before you assume anything about me from the topic line, please finish reading before you post a reply.

 

My girlfriend and I have been in a long distance relationship for a while. In total, we were facing a 3 year period of which approximately 1.5 years have been completed already. We are over 3,000 miles apart, both have very high demanding, high paying jobs (> 80 h / week) and without wanting to sound arrogant, we are both attractive. We see each other every month, usually for a weekend (one of us flies to the other when we both have the weekend off) and 3 times a year for around two consecutive weeks. It's safe to say we have both put a lot of effort in our relationship. I have never cheated on my girlfriend and I bet my life on it that neither has she - whenever there is a moment of attraction with somebody else whom you might idealize a little, we immediately tell each other and the feeling instantly goes away.

 

I am very capable of resisting temptations or feelings for other girls and so is she, yet my girlfriend naturally does need quite a lot of affection. Not too long ago, she proposed whether it wouldn't be easier for our period apart to see other people on a more superficial level that wouldn't go further than kissing; if you have a little sense of romance you know kissing can be very intimate and comforting. Personally I do not have the need to make out with other girls - of course I miss the affection every now and then, but I can resist it. However, I told her that if she really feels lonely I would not mind if she makes out with other guys, preferably with somebody who is in a LDR as well, if that gives her some level of comfort. It's quite a difficult decision, but if she really needs somebody (occasionally), I am more than willing to put her happiness and comfort before anything else. I know it will most likely not come in between us from my side.

 

The thing is, I have no idea how this will play out for her. It's safe to say we have an incredible bond together, have been through a lot and so far have faced and beaten any obstacle in our way. But this is quite a big step. I truly don't want it to come in between us.

 

Does anybody have experience with this, and if so, how did it turn out?

 

Serious replies only please - I will respect everybody's opinion, but please don't make the cliche reply 'If you love somebody, you don't cheat'. Any serious advice will really be appreciated.

[Keenly]

with all due respect, this Is a really stupid idea.

 

Her happiness sounds more important than relationship boundaries.

 

When you make a new thread saying how you flew there and she left you for some one else that she fell for, you'll know why.

[TaraMaiden]

Crazy, crazy idea.

If she has any respect or affection for you, she will be as resistant to kissing/making out with anyone else as you are.

 

Put simply, she is not as dedicated as you are.

She is essentially looking for permission to cheat.

 

I strongly suggest you say an unequivocal and definitive 'No' to her.

you will NOT tolerate ANY level of infidelity.

 

Then?

 

Then, I would give it another month before she dumps you.

[TaraMaiden]

..... please don't make the cliche reply 'If you love somebody, you don't cheat'.

 

you know why a cliché is a cliche?

 

because it's almost always applicable or true.

 

IF you really LOVE someone, you really DON'T cheat.

 

as I said: her level of commitment/dedication is not as focused, anchored, grounded or strong as yours.

 

If it were, such a proposal would not even cross her mind.

[soccerrprp]

Salvatore,

 

No idea what kind of person you and your gf are, but you made it clear that you're both very attractive, but your post and idea to allow your gf (and yourself) the liberty to cheat is just plain stupid. Does your high paying job require any common sense?

 

I'm sorry, but I laughed when I read this post. The things that "seemingly" intelligent people come up with regarding relationships is troubling at times.

Edited February 18, 2014 by soccerrprp

[Zahara]

It's safe to say we have an incredible bond together, have been through a lot and so far have faced and beaten any obstacle in our way. But this is quite a big step. I truly don't want it to come in between us.

 

You have an incredible bond BUT yet she wants to step out of this so called bond to make out with other guys. I can't believe anyone that loves their partner has the gumption to tell their partner it is okay for them to make out with other people. Really isn't much of a bond if you ask me.

 

You have a partner that's having the itchies because the dynamics of the relationship isn't really working for them. When it isn't working, it isn't working. Coming up with the most ridicilous and doormat solution to go around it is only going to come up and bite you in the azz.

 

And trust me, this will come in between the two of you. Why? There is very little in the way of commitment.

[soccerrprp]

Look, Salvatore, I can't take back my initial response to your question as it may have offended you, but you have to know that kissing more often than not leads to much more. It's already cheating, but if you think that your gf, while in the presence of another very attractive guy and in the arms and pressed against his body, is not going to be tempted to allow him to touch, grope more, you're insane. And believe me, enough of that, while in a ldr, and you have a recipe for full-out sexual cheating!

 

You are literally permitting the seeds of cheating by agreeing to this. Just crazy man. Crazy.

 

And I agree with Zahara. Not much of a bond...

[d0nnivain]

I have a rather expansive definition of what is & what isn't cheating. If the particular behavior is "allowed" in your relationship, it's not cheating. So she's not a cheater but you are both nuts if you think that kissing other people is going to make your LDR better. If she needs more physical contact then every few weekends & 2 weeks a year, talk about how & when you will end the distance & move closer together so you can see each other without boarding a plane. If you can't move closer, consider ending the whole thing but trying to allow kissing is only going to lead to somebody wanting or doing more than kissing. It's a bad idea.

[almond]

I'm not going to judge and say that you do not have a strong bond, but what you are proposing is certainly very risky.

 

I don't really see how you can fulfill a craving for the affection of a person you love, with a superficial kiss with someone you are not supposed to have feelings for. I think in many ways, kissing can be just as intimate, if not more so, than certain "types" of intercourse.

 

Open relationships can and do work. They are also very, very difficult, and require an incredibly high level of trust, confidence and respect. The distance between you is worrying...in open relationships, it's an add-on. In this instance, it would act as a replacement. If you feel as though your relationship can withstand this, then it is your choice. Prepare yourself for the potential consequences though.

 

Think this through very carefully. Take your time. What are you getting out of this? What is she? Is this in line with your beliefs, are you truly comfortable with it? Or are you considering this for other reasons? How will you feel down the line? How does it really make you feel that she's asked for this? It could easily spell disaster if you go ahead with this. If you do decide to, make sure you're ready and go into it with your eyes open.

[OnlyHonesty]

She is asking you for 'permission' to cheat. You think she would never do such a thing and this is where you are being naive but you will not see this yet. In time you may though.

 

It is quite possible she has already kissed other men and is just using this suggestion as a way to rationalize it so not to feel too bad. If you agree then she has a 'license' to continue and an excuse if she goes further, if you don't then you can't see what she is up to from a distance anyway.

 

You probably place a lot of value in loyalty and honour but I fear you mistake your girlfriend for doing so as well when she clearly does not. This ldr is very unlikely to work out and has possibly already failed without realization.

[CherryT]

I'm sorry to say, but it sounds like she wants to be with you but not enough to endure the distance. When you're around and it's convenient, she's there. But when you're not, she wants to find someone else. I would think about the kind of person you are in a relationship with and whether that is what you want.

 

My fiancé and I have been LD for years before we closed the gap. We're human and crave intimacy and closeness just like most couples. But we would never, ever think about wanting to be close (even holding hands) with someone else. The distance and separation was worth it for us because we knew we'd eventually be together.

 

If you 'allow' her to do this, it will get in between your relationship. It sounds like she's unfulfilled and when she finds someone who fills that void, it will be easier for her to develop feelings for someone who's right at her fingertips. If you don't allow her to do this, then she'll likely resent you and the distance. If you are OK with an open relationship and don't care if she's with someone else, then fine. But if you're committed to her, I would think long and hard whether or not she's committed to you.

[Els]

LDRs are hard enough without dealing with jealousy and poly stuff.

 

Really bad idea. If she can't do without physical affection for a temporary period of time then she just isn't cut out for LDRs.

[nomadic_butterfly]

It's all or nothing. You guys see each other A LOT more than a lot of other LD couples. Is there some kind of end date?

 

Never ever invite extra parties into your relationship if it's one that you take seriously. No good can come from it. I can imagine being tempted; that comes with even short distance relationships, but never to the point where I pre-meditate this elaborate "open relationship scheme." How long do you realistically think "just kissing" will suffice? Rest assured other "services" will eventually be rendered!

 

What on earth would be the point of an open LDR anyway? If she cheated she needs to fess up or if she likes a local she needs to tell you. Stand your ground!

[LittleTiger]

As someone who has been in a successful LDR for over four years, I'm going to respond to this from a slightly different angle.

 

I agree with some of what's been said so far:

1. I would question why your gf has asked for a semi-open relationship - to me, the fact that she asked is your biggest concern here.

2. Kissing is the thin end of the wedge - make no mistake, it will lead to something more.

3. It isn't cheating, if you've agreed to the 'allowed' behaviour in advance.

4. LDR's are hard enough without having to deal with jealousy etc.

 

I disagree that you can't have sex with someone outside the relationship while still being fully committed to and in love with the primary partner - assuming the primary partner knows what's happening and both parties can deal with any 'jealousy issues'. Sometimes open relationships really do work - but not often. It must be a rare person who is actually happy with that kind of arrangement - it certainly wouldn't work for me.

 

Only you know how stable your relationship is or if your bond is strong enough to cope with this 'arrangement'. Only you can judge what her true motives were for asking permission to 'kiss' other guys - maybe she craves the attention/affection/physical touch or maybe she already has a potential 'partner in crime'. That's something you would have to ask her.

 

As this is your first post you won't know my story but, very briefly, my fiance and I have been LDR for 4+ years although these days we get to spend a large chunk of our time together. Our relationship is wonderful and gets stronger all the time. We're separated by over 10,000 miles for at least half of the year and we've travelled over many rocks and streams as well as mountains, glaciers and mile wide rivers with angry rapids (metaphorically speaking! ) to get to where we are today. Our toughest challenge was not being able to see each other for almost a year with our online/phone contact also reduced to a minimum because of logistical problems.

 

I have always been the one who struggled most with the physical separation. I was the one who struggled most with the lack of day to day contact during that period. Even so, I would never have asked for permission to 'kiss' another guy. When we did get a chance to talk I was very open about how I was feeling and it was him who suggested to me that I should do 'whatever was necessary to stay happy'. No doubt, had I shared our conversations on LS, many people would have told me that he was trying to get permission to misbehave himself. I know him, and myself, well enough that I didn't need to ask for other people's opinions.

 

For me 'doing what was necessary' involved 'dating' other guys ie connecting with guys online, going out for coffee, drink in a pub, dinner. I was always open about my LDR and that I wasn't looking for anything more than conversation and the odd night out. Surprisingly enough, I made a couple of very good friends along the way who I'm still in contact with - one of them even looks after my website.

 

That said, what we did was extremely risky. I know my guy made some new female friends of his own during that period and, yes, we did have some very close calls. In terms of the health of our relationship, we both got far too intimate with other people - emotionally intimate that is. Physically, I don't know what happened at his end and I really don't need to know. We got through that period and we came out stronger because we love each other - but it was a scary time.

 

So, as someone who has experience with what you're going through, or at least something similar, I would say trust your instincts. Both of you should do whatever you need to do to be happy with your current situation - and while you're doing that, always keep in mind that there is a risk it will go badly wrong.

 

I'm probably a bit over-romantic is this respect because it's worked out for us, but I truly believe that, if two people want to stay together, they will - no matter what it takes.

[Neffer]

Kissing is emotionally intimate. Besides, there is evidence that kissing is designed biologically to drive reproduction - sex. Males introduce testosterone via kissing making the likelihood of mating greater as it increases sexual arousal in the female. (Its science man, seriously not making this up)

 

I understand that she is lonely and craves attention and physical response....but there is no way that this doesn't blow up in your face.

[ExpatInItaly]

Foolish. Just plain foolish. She's not happy with the current state of the LDR if this is her way of dealing with the distance. Think about it: she wants the comfort and affection of a man who is not you. And you, sir, are a complete and utter doormat if you accommodate this "request." I'd also go so far as to call you very naive for asserting this won't come between you.

[justwhoiam]

I agree with what other posters said so far. But I would like to give you a more rational perspective.

 

My girlfriend and I have been in a long distance relationship for a while. In total, we were facing a 3 year period of which approximately 1.5 years have been completed already.

So, you have 1.5 years to go. After which, I assume you will be together, living together.

 

We see each other every month, usually for a weekend (one of us flies to the other when we both have the weekend off) and 3 times a year for around two consecutive weeks.

Please note that this is far more than most LDR couples can get. Just to give you some perspective on what other people are enduring.

 

whenever there is a moment of attraction with somebody else whom you might idealize a little, we immediately tell each other and the feeling instantly goes away.

1) You are having a relationship AND are both attracted to other people now and then. From my female's point of view, and a considerable age to know better, this is something you should not overlook or think of as a normal thing. When a girl/woman is head over heels in love with you, she only has eyes for you. Anyone else is just someone she's not interested in. And this is true more often than not.

2) The sharing. It's OK being friends with each other, even best friends. But this shouldn't shift the relationship to losing the sexual tension between the two of you. When you start sharing how you'd do this or that, or how you gave it a thought, as if she were one of your male friends, that can turn out quite a bad thing and go rotten. You think you have the best buddy in your hands, and you lose a girlfriend in the process. On the other hand, if she starts seeing you as someone who is open and not so attached to her, and considering other women or attracted to them sexually, she might lose respect for you, even unconsciously, even when she says she's fine with it and happy you shared the info. So be careful with that, because it can come back to you as a boomerang.

 

I am very capable of resisting temptations or feelings for other girls and so is she, yet my girlfriend naturally does need quite a lot of affection.

I think I know what you mean. I need hugging and I miss that. Don't get me wrong, I miss him sexually, but I also miss the warmth of being loved physically, where even a hug is a lot or would mean a lot to me and make me feel loved. But - since hugging doesn't have to be sexual for a girl - she can get some affection and "warmth" in other ways, just she didn't contemplate them. The problem here seems to be of sexual nature. So you need to address how it is OK with you.

 

Not too long ago, she proposed whether it wouldn't be easier for our period apart to see other people on a more superficial level that wouldn't go further than kissing

1) She would spend time evaluating other men and whom to pick for her sexual needs, be it only for kissing; time she would be taking away from you, that is "alone time" with you

2) She would be using other men and you would be allowing that behavior

3) She should change man often, so that the other man doesn't start getting feelings for her, or even for her own sake, because chances are she can develop feelings for someone else

4) She might get herself into a series of ONS, get used to them and not wanting to give them up

5) Allowing all of that might be hard to stop when the time comes you have to put a brake to it; that is, you won't be controlling it anymore (you wouldn't be controlling it anyway, as you're far away); but let's say that if you are an open couple for an extended time (over a year), it becomes harder to shift back to being an exclusive couple, or to justify the change afterwards

6) It might work, if you think you can put up with that long-term. She might like having multiple partners, just like there are swinging couples out there. But both partners in the couple must like it, otherwise it won't work.

7) You are already showing concern, as you said you don't feel the need of being with other women, hence I suppose that you wouldn't be OK with that. If she's capable of having multiple partners in a month, with your consent, she won't magically turn into someone else when you close the gap. That'd be hard to believe. Even if you provide for her sexual needs, you're just ONE man, and cannot provide the variety she might need. When she will have had much variety, she will see the difference and not feel like settling for that for the rest of her life.

8) Also, you have talked about her "making out" with other guys. You know what that means. It means that in a few seconds, she finds herself undressed, if he's horny enough, and you get the picture.

9) In short, you need to ask yourself if you are OK with her having sex with other men while still seeing you. She might have sex with someone on Sunday, and then have sex with you the next Friday or Saturday.

10) Now, I have considered her having multiple partners. But let's consider her having just one local partner fulfilling all her needs. I'm not sure what is worse. Because they would create an intimate bond, and it'd be hard for it to be or remain superficial. Unless she meant - by superficial - that she won't consider him seriously, so he'd be just entertainment. But you know what? How would you compete with someone local who is just fun? Loving? Attractive? Why should she be with you at that point? He'd just come out as great compared to you. And if she puts the two of you on the scale... guess who's going to win... Unless the other guy is just using her as well...

 

I am more than willing to put her happiness and comfort before anything else. I know it will most likely not come in between us from my side.

Let me say "most likely" is not enough". It must be "for sure" or forget it. Also, the way you're reasoning is nice, how nice of you putting her on this ideal pedestal. But just know that can turn against you. It might sound stupid to you, but I wouldn't think "Oh how nice of him, letting me do whatever I want, and even allowing me to satisfy my sexual needs with someone else. Oh, what an ideal partner he is..." No. I would think "Wow, he doesn't care a thing about me. I could bang the entire football team and he'd be fine with it. What kind of man is he? Since I'm at it, I'd better enjoy what other men have to offer. After all, he doesn't mind, right? [And in no time it would get to...] So, why am I still being with him, exactly?

 

Once that kind of thoughts starts infiltrating into her mind, you're s---wed.

[LittleTiger]

justwhoiam, that's a HUGE leap you're making from the OPs gf 'kissing' another guy to 'having multiple sexual partners in a month'!

 

Without being so melodramatic, the biggest risk here is that she will meet someone else she really likes and may eventually decide that he's a better option than her LD bf.....but then, if she genuinely loves her bf and feels that he's really special, the chances of even that happening are probably pretty slim.

[justwhoiam]

justwhoiam, that's a HUGE leap you're making from the OPs gf 'kissing' another guy to 'having multiple sexual partners in a month'!

Sexual partners doesn't mean she must have sex with them, but rather she can get intimate with. Though it doesn't exclude having sex with them. Also, you don't get outright to ask "Can I s--ew other men?", she put it in a way to make it look acceptable: need for affection, kissing...

 

Without being so melodramatic

I was not being melodramatic. I was serious. An insight into a girl's mind and how it can work. Not necessarily, but possibly. I was trying to be rational explaining what can happen looking at it quite objectively.

 

the biggest risk here is that she will meet someone else she really likes and may eventually decide that he's a better option than her LD bf

I contemplated that too.

[emeraldgreen]

I'm gonna guess that she asked because she's already done it.

 

Kissing is one of the most powerful things out there.

 

Next, it will be going all the way and her telling you she just couldn't stop. Very dangerous move.

[Salvatore]

As someone who has been in a successful LDR for over four years, I'm going to respond to this from a slightly different angle.

 

I agree with some of what's been said so far:

1. I would question why your gf has asked for a semi-open relationship - to me, the fact that she asked is your biggest concern here.

2. Kissing is the thin end of the wedge - make no mistake, it will lead to something more.

3. It isn't cheating, if you've agreed to the 'allowed' behaviour in advance.

4. LDR's are hard enough without having to deal with jealousy etc.

 

I disagree that you can't have sex with someone outside the relationship while still being fully committed to and in love with the primary partner - assuming the primary partner knows what's happening and both parties can deal with any 'jealousy issues'. Sometimes open relationships really do work - but not often. It must be a rare person who is actually happy with that kind of arrangement - it certainly wouldn't work for me.

 

Only you know how stable your relationship is or if your bond is strong enough to cope with this 'arrangement'. Only you can judge what her true motives were for asking permission to 'kiss' other guys - maybe she craves the attention/affection/physical touch or maybe she already has a potential 'partner in crime'. That's something you would have to ask her.

 

As this is your first post you won't know my story but, very briefly, my fiance and I have been LDR for 4+ years although these days we get to spend a large chunk of our time together. Our relationship is wonderful and gets stronger all the time. We're separated by over 10,000 miles for at least half of the year and we've travelled over many rocks and streams as well as mountains, glaciers and mile wide rivers with angry rapids (metaphorically speaking! ) to get to where we are today. Our toughest challenge was not being able to see each other for almost a year with our online/phone contact also reduced to a minimum because of logistical problems.

 

I have always been the one who struggled most with the physical separation. I was the one who struggled most with the lack of day to day contact during that period. Even so, I would never have asked for permission to 'kiss' another guy. When we did get a chance to talk I was very open about how I was feeling and it was him who suggested to me that I should do 'whatever was necessary to stay happy'. No doubt, had I shared our conversations on LS, many people would have told me that he was trying to get permission to misbehave himself. I know him, and myself, well enough that I didn't need to ask for other people's opinions.

 

For me 'doing what was necessary' involved 'dating' other guys ie connecting with guys online, going out for coffee, drink in a pub, dinner. I was always open about my LDR and that I wasn't looking for anything more than conversation and the odd night out. Surprisingly enough, I made a couple of very good friends along the way who I'm still in contact with - one of them even looks after my website.

 

That said, what we did was extremely risky. I know my guy made some new female friends of his own during that period and, yes, we did have some very close calls. In terms of the health of our relationship, we both got far too intimate with other people - emotionally intimate that is. Physically, I don't know what happened at his end and I really don't need to know. We got through that period and we came out stronger because we love each other - but it was a scary time.

 

So, as someone who has experience with what you're going through, or at least something similar, I would say trust your instincts. Both of you should do whatever you need to do to be happy with your current situation - and while you're doing that, always keep in mind that there is a risk it will go badly wrong.

 

I'm probably a bit over-romantic is this respect because it's worked out for us, but I truly believe that, if two people want to stay together, they will - no matter what it takes.

 

Thanks for the great reply, LittleTiger. I tried to shoot you a private message, but that seems disabled on this board. As you seem to have gone through a similar process, would you mind telling me how you and your fiance dealed with this at that time? In fact, my suggestion of 'doing what was necessary' to stay happy initiated this idea as well, perhaps I phrased it a little too one-sided in my topic.

Knowing what you know now, if you could go back, would you have done things differently?

[LittleTiger]

Thanks for the great reply, LittleTiger. I tried to shoot you a private message, but that seems disabled on this board. As you seem to have gone through a similar process, would you mind telling me how you and your fiance dealed with this at that time? In fact, my suggestion of 'doing what was necessary' to stay happy initiated this idea as well, perhaps I phrased it a little too one-sided in my topic.

Knowing what you know now, if you could go back, would you have done things differently?

 

Hi Salvatore - you won't be able PM until you've become a regular poster, I think it's 50+ posts - it's an admin rule.

 

How did we deal with it? Pretty much as I've already said. There was no big drama involved. We had the discussion, continued to talk when we could (which wasn't often), continued to discuss our next visit (although we didn't know when it would be) and continued to plan our future. I told him about any new friends I made online or IRL and we just muddled through. We eventually saw each other again after 11 months apart. Our circumstances then became more favourable and we were able to get back to a 'normal' LDR which, for us, meant every day Skype chats and not more than five months apart.

 

Would I have done things differently? No. We both did what we needed to do during a difficult time. We faced the problem jointly, as a couple, and came up with 'our best option' for a solution, under that set of circumstances.

 

We did discuss ending our relationship during that period - at least twice very seriously. Not because of other romantic interests but because, logistically, a proper relationship with each other was impossible. We couldn't break it off though. We both wanted to remain a couple so strongly that we were prepared to do whatever it took in the short term to stay together in the long term. Yes, there were some rocky moments, and I've already said it was risky, but we hung in there, hung on to each other and rode out the storm.

 

I should point out that there is a major difference between our relationship at that time and the relationship you describe with your girlfriend. We were separated by 12,000 miles, we had maybe five minutes contact a few times a week and little hope of seeing each other for a very, very long time.

 

You two spend a weekend together every few weeks, in addition to your three times a year 'two week trips'. I'm guessing you also talk to each other every day or at least almost every day. To me (to us) that's a walk in the park! Seriously!

 

To be honest, if I were you, I would be very concerned that you two have had this discussion, given your 'relatively easy' situation. You have regular contact, you see each other frequently and you only have 18 months to go before it's completely over. It surprises me that either of you could be dissatisfied with that, especially if you're so much in love, but I guess it takes all sorts.

 

Good luck whatever happens and please come back and let us know the outcome - good or bad.