I can't love myself

[Confused48]

Tara Maiden showed me a meditation. I meditated. I reached bliss a few times.

 

Recently something new came up for me. I was thinking about what was said in a guided meditation about how to love others we have to love ourselves. I thought about loving myself. What is good about me. What is bad.

 

I landed upon that I can't love myself because I am selfish and hurt others and kill plants and animals. The most selfish thing I do is decide to live another day. It is selfish because all living things must kill to stay alive and I know that.

 

I tried being a vegetarian. It did not help. I felt more wicked when killing and eating plants, that I had nurtured from seeds to mature beautiful vegetables, than I did buying meat in a store. Just walking the earth, not eating anything, just walking, I am going to crush and kill other life. Just breathing, I will kill. I feel there is no possible way to live and be moral. If I choose to live I am selfish and choosing to kill.

 

All living things, even plants, kill by competition or otherwise, to live. My dogs for example, they enjoy hunting and killing for food and just by nature they enjoy the hunt. They don't think about it though as a moral or immoral choice. I am awake enough to know it is immoral.

 

I am the most wicked type of living thing, i.e.: the kind that knows what the right thing to do is, and does not do it. Who could love a person like this? Not me.

[TaraMaiden]

Thinking in this way is unskilled and self-defeating. If I may get down to the nitty-gritty for a second, the Buddha tells us that in order to live a serene life the most commendable quality One can develop is Metta. Loving kindness. This is closely followed by Compassion. However, these qualities are incomplete and to an extent ineffective, if they do not include ourselves. And we should include ourselves first and foremost.

That sounds selfish, until we put things into context....

 

On an aeroplane, often during take-off or just before, they go through the safety procedures, and One important point they make, is that if someone next to you requires assistance with their oxygen mask, you should ensure you have your own in place first.

You're hardly going to be any use to anyone, if you're suffocating or choking, yourself, are you?

And we can generally only last about 4 to 6 minutes maximum, without air....

 

So the only way to deliver Metta and Karuna to others, unconditionally, is to first realise and accept that we are just as deserving.

 

How can we ever be loving and forgiving to others, if we cannot first be loving and gentle with ourselves?

 

We also acknowledge that when it comes to harming others - Intention is all,

If we kill, we have to mean to kill, with malice and hatred in our hearts.

99.99% of the time, we never intentionally mean to hurt, harm, maim or wound.

But we are part of life, and to permit such events to sour our thinking, is to harm ourselves.

 

If we would be kind, loving and harm-less, we must first consider ourselves in such terms. To be born human is a privilege, not an excuse.

To deny ourselves the possibility of kindness and compassion is to deny ourselves the honour of being the best person we can be.

Edited February 19, 2014 by TaraMaiden

[BetheButterfly]

Tara Maiden showed me a meditation. I meditated. I reached bliss a few times.

 

Recently something new came up for me. I was thinking about what was said in a guided meditation about how to love others we have to love ourselves. I thought about loving myself. What is good about me. What is bad.

 

I landed upon that I can't love myself because I am selfish and hurt others and kill plants and animals. The most selfish thing I do is decide to live another day. It is selfish because all living things must kill to stay alive and I know that.

 

I tried being a vegetarian. It did not help. I felt more wicked when killing and eating plants, that I had nurtured from seeds to mature beautiful vegetables, than I did buying meat in a store. Just walking the earth, not eating anything, just walking, I am going to crush and kill other life. Just breathing, I will kill. I feel there is no possible way to live and be moral. If I choose to live I am selfish and choosing to kill.

 

All living things, even plants, kill by competition or otherwise, to live. My dogs for example, they enjoy hunting and killing for food and just by nature they enjoy the hunt. They don't think about it though as a moral or immoral choice. I am awake enough to know it is immoral.

 

I am the most wicked type of living thing, i.e.: the kind that knows what the right thing to do is, and does not do it. Who could love a person like this? Not me.

 

First of all, you being concerned for animals and plants shows that you are kind, and being kind is most definitely lovable.

 

About plants, herbivores eat plants. Without plants, herbivores and thus carnivores would not exist.

 

So, while I think it's kind and sweet that you are concerned about plants, it's important to be grateful for the sustenance they give. That is in my opinion how one can be kind to plants, to be thankful for them and for the nutrition they give us and other animals.

 

As for your thinking, it's important to be positive and not negative. You have many positive traits, and it will help you love yourself when you focus on your positive traits.

 

When I was younger, I had a hard time seeing myself positively until I realized who I am in Christ (I'm a Christian). Once I truly realized that God is my Father in Heaven and that I have many positive traits, and that I can improve and grow, my metamorphosis began! (That's why I call myself on this forum 'be the butterfly'.

 

Life is a journey and a maturing process. Loving oneself includes accepting the fact that you have positive traits, and that you can grow in other areas as well, and that you care for yourself. It is very important to care for oneself because that helps us know how to care for others and to actively care for other people too.

[Confused48]

the Buddha tells us that in order to live a serene life the most commendable quality One can develop is Metta. Loving kindness. This is closely followed by Compassion. However, these qualities are incomplete and to an extent ineffective, if they do not include ourselves. And we should include ourselves first and foremost.

 

So if I simply continue to meditate and allow for the possibility that I will find this for myself, it might happen? Or do I need to resolve this with logic or in therapy or reading texts or... ?

 

On an aeroplane, often during take-off or just before, they go through the safety procedures, and One important point they make, is that if someone next to you requires assistance with their oxygen mask, you should ensure you have your own in place first.

You're hardly going to be any use to anyone, if you're suffocating or choking, yourself, are you?

 

To follow the analogy, I think I just don't want to be on this plane. Don't want to live. That is not true though either.

 

 

We also acknowledge that when it comes to harming others - Intention is all,

If we kill, we have to mean to kill, with malice and hatred in our hearts.

99.99% of the time, we never intentionally mean to hurt, harm, maim or wound.

But we are part of life, and to permit such events to sour our thinking, is to harm ourselves.

 

I can see we all are in it together. Eating, breathing, swimming in life. I feel guilt though in participating, knowing what I know.

[Confused48]

When I was younger, I had a hard time seeing myself positively until I realized who I am in Christ (I'm a Christian). Once I truly realized that God is my Father in Heaven and that I have many positive traits, and that I can improve and grow, my metamorphosis began! (That's why I call myself on this forum 'be the butterfly'.

 

Thank you for your entire post. But this part especially touched me. I thought about it while meditating and the image of Buddha appeared.

 

It then occurred to me that if he were still alive he would love me and how that would feel. It brought me to a new feeling about myself. I'm still not where I can say I love myself like I think he would or any enlightened person would but I can feel it.

 

Maybe one has to be enlightened to fully love one's self? Maybe I have to?

[TaraMaiden]

So if I simply continue to meditate and allow for the possibility that I will find this for myself, it might happen? Or do I need to resolve this with logic or in therapy or reading texts or... ?

 

You don't 'allow for the possibility'. Thať s seĺf defeating.

You permit yourself the Grace and Metta to beĺieve it because it's true.

What I'm going to say may sound very harsh but its something I also had to accept some time ago, too. (What, you don't think I had to start somewhere too...?! )

All this talk about you hating yourself, feeling you're not good enough, you're undeserving.... It's all ego talk and just as attention-seeking as the inverse 'I'm so wonderful' trip. It's all a slick move our subconscious pulls to keep us in the limelight.

You need to quit listening to the mental message telling you that you're unworthy. Fear is the worst of liars.

You may well need therapeutic assistance with this aspect of your mind-set.

 

I can see we all are in it together. Eating, breathing, swimming in life. I feel guilt though in participating, knowing what I know.

What you think you know is just perception, which more often than not, is Deception.

 

Thank you for your entire post. But this part especially touched me. I thought about it while meditating and the image of Buddha appeared.

 

It then occurred to me that if he were still alive he would love me and how that would feel. It brought me to a new feeling about myself. I'm still not where I can say I love myself like I think he would or any enlightened person would but I can feel it.

 

Maybe one has to be enlightened to fully love one's self? Maybe I have to?

No, it can be done. In order to become Enlightened, One has to achieve a level of "perfection". You can't do it in reverse.

[Confused48]

You don't 'allow for the possibility'. Thať s seĺf defeating.

You permit yourself the Grace and Metta to beĺieve it because it's true.

 

Can you explain more? It sounds like you are saying "believe" as in take it on faith.

[TaraMaiden]

There IS 'Faith' in Buddhism but it's Faith as in 'Confidence', not Faith as in 'unquestioned belief.'

If you cannot accept that you are loveable then expecting others to love you is also unreasonable - isn't it...?

 

Would you like others to love you? Of course you would.

Why?

Because we all deserve to be loved.

As long as we love, we are precious.

As long as we are loved, I would say we are indispensable.

We cannot exist without ourselves.

So, in loving what we are, warts and all, we comply with the greatest Truth there is: Unconditional Love is the greatest gift we can give to ourselves and to others.

[pie2]

I am the most wicked type of living thing, i.e.: the kind that knows what the right thing to do is, and does not do it. Who could love a person like this? Not me.

 

 

God can.

 

 

The peace you're searching for comes from knowing Christ.

[TaraMaiden]

God can.

 

 

The peace you're searching for comes from knowing Christ.

 

Then I suggest he present himself in person and assure her of that.

[pie2]

Then I suggest he present himself in person and assure her of that.

 

 

I have lots of great suggestions for God, myself. I don't know why he doesn't listen more often...?!

[TaraMaiden]

well, I could make some suggestions, but I'll just suggest he take a leaf out of his own book... Jer. 5: 21

[Confused48]

You sent me that Metta song and I listened to it with the intention of being able to forgive the AP. I did come to feel loving kindness for all beings, including the AP.

 

It fades though. I can't keep that feeling for more than a day or so. I even lose the ability to love myself. To think I'm worthy of life.

 

I meditate every day now, sometimes hours at end. It almost always brings me some peace. There have been a few times when I'm meditating that I get back to feeling worthy of life and loving kindness for all beings. Do you have any advice on how to either get to that point in mediation more often or be able to hold that feeling longer?

[TaraMaiden]

Meditation has no aim.

Meditation is not about reaching a specific and desired state of mind.

Meditation isn't about any destination, per se.

Meditation IS the destination.

When we practice meditation with an objective, and have expectations of it working that way, we find that in fact, perhaps we're asking too much of ourselves....

meditation is about stilling the mind, not necessarily directing it.

 

I heard it said once that 'Meditation is how Buddhists pray'. In fact, meditation is a common theme with many religions, so i wouldn't 'bag' it specifically, but I see what it means....

 

One of the aspects of meditation though, if we link it to Buddhist 'philosophy' is that it is Part of the Picture, not the whole of it.

meditation is A practice in buddhism - but it underpins other considerations.

One of those considerations, is Mindfulness.

Mindfulness means that actually, we strive to not completely 'let go' of our meditation, when we get up from the cushion.

 

As the incident between a master and his student relates....

S: Master, I have much work to do, and a great deal of studying to accomplish. In addition, I must assist my mother to feed our livestock, and look after the farm.... So, when should I sit in meditation, in the early morning as the sun rises, or at dusk, as evening falls....?

 

M: Yes, I see your dilemma.... well, of course, one should meditate.....

 

S: Master, when do YOU meditate?

 

M: (after a pause) When am I NOT meditating....?

 

The *trick* is to be Mindful. To keep within that essence, within that frame we have achieved through sitting.

I myself wear a mala on my wrist, to be honest.

It's a daily constant reminder of where I 'should be'.....

 

(Malas are strung beads. usually in multiples of 9 to a maximum of 108. They are 'closed off' with what is known as a Master Bead.)

My beads are strung on an elasticated thread, making wearing easier.

Seeing it, constantly, helps me just to 'be in the moment'.....

 

see, I need prodding too.....

Edited March 23, 2014 by TaraMaiden

[maturityassets]

I mean I'm not a Buddhist but I meditate to quell anxiety. I'm actually Nietzschean. But I do agree that its about acceptance. It is a a form of seeking attention when condemning yourself so badly. I use to believe I had to pay a debt for my shortcomings and that I was unlovable as well. But you are having deep feelings of guilt and shame, punishing yourself in order to hope it will relieve yourself of "depravity". Atonement. The issue is you are judging yourself. Why are you judging yourself? Is it not a part of life that there is both joy and suffering in life? Is not life but a series of Peaks and Abyss? The trick for me has been to embrace all of life. Affirm my life without regrets, while being an individual. Not to feel judged by other people's standards... Whether it be a complete stranger or your parents. You are lovable and sometimes it is embarrassing to admit that because this whole time you've been trying to hide that self acceptance with punishment. So embarrassing that you laugh and know you have been deceiving yourself this whole time, but when you do laugh that is a sign of acceptance. Don't hide those innocent moments, that is the real you!

 

I'll leave you with My favorite Nietzsche quote:

"you must be ready to burn yourself in your own flame;

how could you rise anew if you have not first become ashes?”

 

So when discovering the real you, you might have to throw off that false image of yourself to become that person you can be.

[Confused48]

Meditation has no aim.

Meditation is not about reaching a specific and desired state of mind.

Meditation isn't about any destination, per se.

Meditation IS the destination.

When we practice meditation with an objective, and have expectations of it working that way, we find that in fact, perhaps we're asking too much of ourselves....

 

When I first realized the ability to have loving kindness for all beings, it was by starting a meditation with the intention of achieving that. Should I give up wanting to be able to have that feeling for all beings?

 

One of those considerations, is Mindfulness.

Mindfulness means that actually, we strive to not completely 'let go' of our meditation, when we get up from the cushion.

 

Even when I don't reach the state of loving kindness I do almost always become more mindful. If I am to upset or anxious due to life's curve balls I can't even become more mindful. (Currently in this sate) However, for the vast majority of the times that I meditate I do get calm and mindful. I do feel the ability to hold that calm mindful state even while then continuing to move through life. For a while. It varies greatly. It seems the longer I meditate the longer I can hold the calm and mindful state afterwords.

 

I also find that in times of great stress, in the moment of the great stress, sometimes I suddenly now become mindful. This is a great blessing, when it happens.

[VeronicaRoss]

I struggle with this myself, it's an uncomfortable reality.

 

The one truth about our situation:

 

The nature of life on this planet is that living things subsist on the destruction of other life. Even a plant does this -- other plants and animals had to die to create the organic matter that it depends upon for living.

 

What concerns me is that this reality, true for everyone, is being directed back at yourself as self-hatred. Very concerning. That didn't come from understanding the reality of 'the circle of life' but from the way you've been taught to perceive yourself.

 

I could take a shot in the dark like "Did your parents make you feel guilty for them having to take care of you?" but that's not helpful, I'm a stranger on the Internet. What you really need is to talk with a trusted other in your real life about your value and your worth on the planet. If you don't have that person, find a spiritual counselor from a religion or a therapist.

 

Take this energy, this self-hatred and instead direct it into action that where you build your sense of place in the community, a sense of value about what you contribute. The more you are able to give, the more you see the gratitude and/or appreciation for your actions from others, the more peace you'll find about this situation -- I promise.

[2sunny]

Use meditation as a way to empty your mind of all the negative thoughts.

 

Just be in a mental place of thinking of "nothing".

[Confused48]

I struggle with this myself, it's an uncomfortable reality.

 

The one truth about our situation:

 

The nature of life on this planet is that living things subsist on the destruction of other life. Even a plant does this -- other plants and animals had to die to create the organic matter that it depends upon for living.

 

 

OMG! You get it! That is so rare.

 

BTW plants even compete with each other for light and soil. They kill each other with shade and their roots.

 

 

What concerns me is that this reality, true for everyone, is being directed back at yourself as self-hatred. Very concerning. That didn't come from understanding the reality of 'the circle of life' but from the way you've been taught to perceive yourself.

 

I think it comes from feeling like I know it is wrong. Like I said before, dogs don't know it is wrong to kill. Plants may not even know they are killing other plants. Maybe it just isn't wrong to kill for substance, to compete to stay alive?

 

I think that is the theory that most people operate under. I'm just not feeling I can do that. Or that my life is so special it is more worthy than another being's life, even a plant's. I have to say though that I did not feel this way when I reached the place of loving kindness. I felt free of any guilt on this issue. I'm just not there very much.

 

I could take a shot in the dark like "Did your parents make you feel guilty for them having to take care of you?" but that's not helpful, I'm a stranger on the Internet. What you really need is to talk with a trusted other in your real life about your value and your worth on the planet. If you don't have that person, find a spiritual counselor from a religion or a therapist.

 

I've talked to therapists about this before and no one gets it. Some look at me like I've got two heads when they hear what I'm thinking. I'm seeing a new one this week. One that has a background in Buddhism.

 

Take this energy, this self-hatred and instead direct it into action that where you build your sense of place in the community, a sense of value about what you contribute. The more you are able to give, the more you see the gratitude and/or appreciation for your actions from others, the more peace you'll find about this situation -- I promise.

 

Thank you for your comments and advice.

[VeronicaRoss]

I do understand!

 

I often wonder about this planet. It's beauty de-constructed is a savage beauty, an aching beauty back and forth between extremes including the one of life and death you're pondering here. The dualities of pain and pleasure and the savage beauty of that pretty much fills up the rest of LS!

 

For instance our survival instinct is not really that so much. We are destroying our planet in the pursuit of comfort and security. That is a similar ironic madness too.

 

I realize I'm part of the savage beauty for myself and others despite any effort to be a saint (and hey, because of it). I'm not above it. I was created this way, and am here to live. The rules are set. I can't change them. Denying them has only created more weirdness and pain. So...acceptance. And then doing the best I can within the rules of the game I can't change.

[beach]

You can unlearn what you were taught about self hatred.

 

You can learn a new way that works for you.

 

The four agreements by Ruiz is a good book to get started.

 

Stop believing the negative things you were taught. Talk kindly to self and others. Invite in positive energy/interactions.

 

Like energy attracts.

[Confused48]

You can unlearn what you were taught about self hatred.

 

You can learn a new way that works for you.

 

The four agreements by Ruiz is a good book to get started.

 

Stop believing the negative things you were taught. Talk kindly to self and others. Invite in positive energy/interactions.

 

Like energy attracts.

 

I was not taught any of this. At least not by people.

 

I said I don't love myself. That is not the same as self hate. I don't like that I kill to live. That is, IMHO, wrong action. I feel incongruity. I think of hate as wishing death for that person. I'm not suicidal.

[Confused48]

The rules are set. I can't change them. Denying them has only created more weirdness and pain. So...acceptance. And then doing the best I can within the rules of the game I can't change.

 

I understand this. I was raised as a christian. In that faith this concept is used as a tool to deal with tragedy like this:

 

If something horrible occurs in your life for no apparent reason, you are told, "It is God's plan. You don't need to understand it, it is God's Plan."

 

After a time it brought me to a place of really hating that F'ing god. The one that had such an F'ed up plan I mean. It felt good to then become an atheist and believe that all the random bad stuff was not focused on me by some sick and twisted god.

 

I'm not an atheist anymore. I don't understand anything. To be an atheist you have to believe that you understand something. I'm just confused.

[VeronicaRoss]

"It is God's plan. You don't need to understand it, it is God's Plan."

 

After a time it brought me to a place of really hating that F'ing god. The one that had such an F'ed up plan I mean. It felt good to then become an atheist and believe that all the random bad stuff was not focused on me by some sick and twisted god.

 

Right, we created God in our own image I suspect. If we were to choose the most powerful person in the various human tribes of the time the Biblical stories originated, that's probably the way that ruler ruled.

 

It's a terrible view of a 'supreme intelligence', but you can see where people created those stories with what they had, to make sense of what was happening around them. Why they're still held up as a standard is just bizarre.

 

I grew up not accepting the religions I was raised in because they weren't logical, although my intelligent and religious grandparents were devout and good, kind people. At eight years old when I started reading the Bible at my Gram's request I rejected what I was reading as mean and non-sensical.

 

But I still had the same questions that drive people to religion. I had to do what you're doing, look at how the world works and deal with that even with the best of intentions, I was still screwing up royally and hurting others too. And believing different dumb spiritual things, some I eventually outgrew.

 

I have a job that I love but I also volunteer teach young women entrepreneurship and programming. They give me a huge belief in people and I just have a ton of fun with them.