With women, the "spark" needs to be there, with men...not so much?

[Tayken]

Nobody has yet to define exactly how one creates "sparks" for them. Just getting the feeling of wanting physical affection from a man isn't really enough. How do those feelings come about exactly? What makes that different from "physical attraction". What makes you want to kiss a man besides him being just hot?

 

Serious question because for me as a man I can define what creates a "spark" quite easily. Is she kind of short with a nice smile, outgoing personality, connects with me on a few key interests, good sense of humor, doesn't dress like shes homeless, and/or not too overweight? Boom, Spark made. Doesn't even have to be all of those. Funny thing is that many men meet those requirements only too be rejected quite often by women.

 

Using the word "spark" is an ambiguous way to cover up your own desires. I can easily identify what I am attracted to in a woman without having to consolidate it into one word.

 

BOLD 1...damn right too, matter of convenience for their lack of real sense of requirement

 

BOLD 2: Am guessing it's not the metaphorical feline?

 

I've asked women the question on what defines a spark and can't get a straight answer. Women just know but can't explain.

 

I have lost count on how many times I have heard that too.....fair to say it equates to BS really, and OLD littered with all these women shows that they still haven't found what they think they are looking for.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Tayken

[Speakingofwhich]

The spark is real. Wish it wasn't and have fought it. But, it always turns out to be reliable so what's the point in taking up a guy's time and money when you know it's not there?

 

My exH and the other two men I've had LTRs with seem to have all had universal spark appeal. Anyone of them could have had most any woman he wanted, I believe (and one of them chose to as our R got close to ending, lol!). I mention this as a preface to this remark:

 

None of them were gamey. At all. They all were authentic from the get go, pursued me hotly and let me know in a thousand ways I was the woman of their dreams. And I responded in kind.

 

When it's a perfect fit no games are needed.

 

However, forever love is built on more than perfection. There is work and at times self sacrifice involved and some of us learn that a little bit too late!

[Scales]

I've asked women the question on what defines a spark and can't get a straight answer. Women just know but can't explain.

 

I'm kind of scared for the person who just "knows" what turns them on but can't explain it. Would you believe in energy crystals and mood rings too? Heres the deal: people know. Lets all try and be a little more open about what it is we are attracted too. Its not some secret present that has to be hidden from the rest of the world.

 

btw, if anyone has ever wondered how pickup artists make a career, this is it. They learn to create an artificial spark that applies to work with a broad amount of women. Women become completely infatuated because they think they found a spark, to the point they stop caring whether the guy is even credible or decent.

[xxoo]

Nobody has yet to define exactly how one creates "sparks" for them. Just getting the feeling of wanting physical affection from a man isn't really enough. How do those feelings come about exactly? What makes that different from "physical attraction". What makes you want to kiss a man besides him being just hot?

 

For me, it's a masculine-trait personality, confidence, and protectiveness toward me. Swoon city.

[PJKino]

I'm kind of scared for the person who just "knows" what turns them on but can't explain it. Would you believe in energy crystals and mood rings too? Heres the deal: people know. Lets all try and be a little more open about what it is we are attracted too. Its not some secret present that has to be hidden from the rest of the world.

 

btw, if anyone has ever wondered how pickup artists make a career, this is it. They learn to create an artificial spark that applies to work with a broad amount of women. Women become completely infatuated because they think they found a spark, to the point they stop caring whether the guy is even credible or decent.

 

ehh i think alot of it is overblown its not a coincdence that good looking men for the most part do pretty well with women and i doubt its because they can create a magical "spark" better its because theyre good looking and probably somewhat sociable

 

I do agree that some men can turn women on in that way and alot of times the guys a manipulator who knows how to prey on womens feelings,one of my friends knows how to bs women and make them feel special and then he just uses them but hes also very good lookign which i think plays some part as well which women want to pretend doesnt play a role much

[Speakingofwhich]

^^^^^^^^^^^

what xxoo said, plus:

 

A guy who is high energy and enthusiastic about life! They love their job (hobbies, etc), or are in the process of preparing for a job they'd enjoy. They live life to the fullest. They are highly interested in finding out about the world around them and what my existence is like while simultaneously sharing activities and pursuits they're involved in. And they find humor in life where others might whine about it.

[Tayken]

For me, it's a masculine-trait personality, confidence, and protectiveness toward me. Swoon city.

 

 

Like THIS.....

[somedude81]

The way I see it, by the time the first date comes around, I've already felt that spark. If I didn't, I wouldn't have asked her out.

[Speakingofwhich]

ehh i think alot of it is overblown its not a coincdence that good looking men for the most part do pretty well with women and i doubt its because they can create a magical "spark" better its because theyre good looking and probably somewhat sociable

 

While it's true that being good looking seems to be an asset for both men and women, looks alone don't constitute a spark for me and I have met quite a few good-looking men I haven't been interested in.

 

An example is that while I was married I attended a particular presentation. The speaker was a Dr. (MD) whom I immediately thought was one of the best looking men I'd ever seen. I could hardly concentrate on what he had to say for thinking about his appearance.

 

Years later when I was divorced and this man's wife had died he called me one day out of the blue and asked me to dinner. We weren't friends but knew each other from being active in the same community. At dinner he basically proposed to me. I really wanted to be with him for reasons of financial security (he also owned a nursing home), he was admired in the community and he was good looking. But, there was no spark for me.

 

I think he thought I would jump at the chance to marry him because of his good looks, education and $$$, hence the first date proposal. But, I found I wasn't attracted to him, sadly.

[somedude81]

The way I see it, by the time the first date comes around, I've already felt that spark. If I didn't, I wouldn't have asked her out.

Adding on to what I said.

 

Women need to feel a spark to accept a date.

 

And they need an additional spark to want to go on another date.

[Scales]

^^^^^^^^^^^

what xxoo said, plus:

 

A guy who is high energy and enthusiastic about life! They love their job (hobbies, etc), or are in the process of preparing for a job they'd enjoy. They live life to the fullest. They are highly interested in finding out about the world around them and what my existence is like while simultaneously sharing activities and pursuits they're involved in. And they find humor in life where others might whine about it.

 

Separating himself from other men in a positive way like I mentioned before.

 

Athletic/physically strong guys do much better too. They have more energy and play sports and win. A guy who isn't naturally physically strong is at a disadvantage. Women don't have any interest in couch potatoes. A natural sense of humor comes to some guys and not to others. Two guys can attempt the same joke but just one of them will make her laugh.

 

I also mentioned before how it doesn't matter so much what you do, but how you do it. I completely agree with this. I think though you are putting too much into the looks department for spark. However, I don't underestimate the power of attractiveness and leading a positive of life of winning in succession because of it. Its definitely in the top of things to consider in the realm of "spark"

[Keenly]

Next time I go on a date (god knows when that'll be), I'll be bringing a set of starter cables and a battery.

The Sparks will really be flying off then.

 

P.S. I like your signature.

Good to know there's someone else who also lives by that philosophy.

 

I really hope you don't live your life like a sith.

[Teraskas]

I really hope you don't live your life like a sith.

 

Not entirely, though the more rejection and negative experiences I encounter with this dating scene, the more it drives me towards that mentality.

[Tayken]

I really hope you don't live your life like a sith.

 

 

As long as he remembers to hook the cables up right

[Imajerk17]

irc333, you post these threads a lot. I actually feel kinda bad because even though you keep asking the same question over and over, you seem like a decent guy who just wants a relationship. Anyway, from reading your threads I think that part of it is the women in your area and I think part of it is you, frankly.

 

If I am recalling correctly, you live in a rural area, where many of the women in your dating pool have gone from dysfunctional relationship to dysfunctional relationship without doing any introspection in the meanwhile. You're a nice guy who has little baggage--which is probably "just not what they are used to", and it's a factor why you get written off.

 

I do think that part of it is you though. You come across as a "logical" guy who gets baffled/frustrated by the fact that the way women approach dating is NOT logical. Those types of guys tend to not do well with women. I am wondering how your conversations with women are actually going.

 

Did you post previously about the woman in your story below?

 

 

Okay, so may be I'm off base here, but I had recently discovered that I had a mutual "sparks" with women that never turned into anything either. I was leading up to this, that being said I found it to be all moot.

 

I recall a vivid situation where I met a woman online, we had the same brand of humor an the chemistry online lead to even on the phone.

 

Usually most situations when meeting in person, it quickly drops off, but the transition from online to the real world meeting "ramped up" extensively until the end of the night. I was thinking, "So THIS is the chemistry people have been speaking of!"

 

She even called ME just as I drove into the driveway to chat some more , i was a great date and I asked her out again.

 

When I went to make plans with her again, she answered the phone...she had this really unfriendly, rather apathetic tone in her voice and said she was busy with yardwork that day. She never offered an alternative date.

 

She went from hot to cold very shortly. I couldn't understand it.

 

Most dates I went on with women , we could both tell there was no "chemistry" there based on awkward or tedious conversations or lack of personality on her part or personality that simply didn't click.

 

Based upon those comparisons, I KNEW this date was different from most dates and I could swear up and down she would be wanting to see me again, only she flaked out instead.

 

That's why I had concluded its rather moot. So I'm all about basing attraction which is based on becoming familiar with the person than the initial spark.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Imajerk17

[irc333]

Maybe that's part of my problem...maybe I'm thinking of it in a logical manner. I'm not sure why I don't think of it in any other way, though I'm trying to get to that "I was blind, but now I see" objective.

 

The most I can get with a woman is her wanting to do the FWB thing with me, but not actually want to date me or think of me as a sig. other. I've refused sex with these women because I'm just not into that situation.

 

Perhaps, I'm nuts for refusing cheap sex instead of making love? That I go against the grain when men would probably think, "What, you refused to have sex with her? You're a dude, why would you do that??"

 

I'm trying to think back to certain situations and it gets exhausting trying to figure it out. I am possibly reaching a level contentment where I could very well actually be content on staying unattached even longer.

 

A male friend of mine, late 40's, actually lacks the energy to "figure out women and their level of interest", perhaps I'm "Trying too hard"? Maybe that's it, and just prefer to "cut up" in front of a bunch of people and not worry about the "Method in which I should flirt with a woman in order to attract her"?

 

Someone said in a post about CREATING attraction...that is rather Alien to me and quite absurd, I don't just buy into it. That the man's level of success with a woman relies on his ability to CREATE it?

 

The whole First 10 mins within meeting, a woman can tell if she wants to have sex with a man? Again, doesn't mix well with me...that within 10 mins that she's waiting on him to do something that would "tickle her pink"? As if we're to be their entertainment for the evening, or their event co-ordinator?

 

Dunno, man. I'm not bitter, but reaching a level of complacency these days.

 

Going back to my late 40's friend, he has been active in other things not involving women or it is just a happen stance that it does involve women. Sometimes if a woman shows interest in him, he easily over looks it. He's become so oblivious to it actually.

 

You asked about my MOST recent interaction with a woman. Today...the latest woman that I've talked to a few times was rather abrasive and rude to me.

 

I was getting to know her at an event, and she asked my age, I told her and she said, "That's old!" I kind of laughed it off and said, "I may be old , but I'm spry!" (She's only 5 years younger than me).

 

Then I brought up some song and she said, "I don't remember that far back, because I'm not old"

 

Now, I could take this as a joke, but I was wondering if she was socially inept, because you just don't make blantant insults with someone you JUST met....now if I knew them for a while we could see it as joking around, but with her it seemed rather spiteful.

 

Today, I went to an event that involved some physical activity, apparently they were choosing teams, and she yells to me, "IRC, get your a** over here, we need another team player!"

 

I was a good distance away, but said I'll sit this one out.

 

Now, this is just an example, but I said this about her to a friend of mine and he was like "You don't need that in your life, not even as a friend..." but I was starting to think she had a hair up her ass or something that needed pulling out.

 

Not sure if I went off on a tangent, but you asked, IMAJerk, LOL....just an example of some of the women I had been interacting with. It's like some women expect you to treat them respectfully and just because they have a vagina, they think they can treat you disrespectfully.

 

I don't cater to such people in my life, but I think part of my problem (if it is a problem) is that I don't cater to the game playing nor really tend to accept some of the "that's just how women will be, and if you're not willing to put up with that behavior, then you should just be content on not wind up being a future divorce statistic".

 

Cripes that was long! LOL

 

 

irc333, you post these threads a lot. I actually feel kinda bad because even though you keep asking the same question over and over, you seem like a decent guy who just wants a relationship. Anyway, from reading your threads I think that part of it is the women in your area and I think part of it is you, frankly.

 

If I am recalling correctly, you live in a rural area, where many of the women in your dating pool have gone from dysfunctional relationship to dysfunctional relationship without doing any introspection in the meanwhile. You're a nice guy who has little baggage--which is probably "just not what they are used to", and it's a factor why you get written off.

 

I do think that part of it is you though. You come across as a "logical" guy who gets baffled/frustrated by the fact that the way women approach dating is NOT logical. Those types of guys tend to not do well with women. I am wondering how your conversations with women are actually going.

 

Did you post previously about the woman in your story below?

[irc333]

Take Teraskas, he's responded to some of my posts here, and I can honestly say I am suprised he's having issues with women.

 

From the few posts I've read from him, he's VERY articulate for a foreigner. He made a very good impression on me.

 

And there ARE guys like him. Some successful, good looking men, but not arrogant, doing well in their careers, own a nice home with 2 car garage, etc.

 

Is kind to their fellow man, does volunteer work, and gets along socially with friends, adore their own family members, but can't snag a woman to save their life.

 

Perhaps those types are better off being single? If woman don't see THOSE types with any real value, then they're missing out, yes?

[Eggplant]

No, but not everybody has the luxury or patience to get that deal.

Fine. But I think some kind of sexual spark has to be present, and if you don't feel it, the better option is to be alone. Here's the analogy. Would you agree to committing to a relationship, forsaking all others, with a woman, in which you would be celibate for the rest of your life? Because having sex with a man sans spark for me is worse than being celibate for the rest of my life. It's a negative. So even if I don't have the luxury or patience to get a spark, then I still am better off alone, without the guy without a spark.

[carhill]

And there ARE guys like him. Some successful, good looking men, but not arrogant, doing well in their careers, own a nice home with 2 car garage, etc.

 

Is kind to their fellow man, does volunteer work, and gets along socially with friends, adore their own family members, but can't snag a woman to save their life.

 

Yep, got a friend like that. Same age as George Clooney, actually same birth date (bizarre!) and looks a lot like him; really attractive man. Makes six figures and lives a comfortable life. Saturday night we'll find him leaving a party early to get home to sleep so he can get up early Sunday to go to church. Never been married.

 

I think another poster who mentioned your rural area may be onto something. I deal with a similar demographic, as does my friend, though in no way can I compare myself to him in the 'catch' department. It's simply demographics.

 

I remember one episode poignantly; he was at a gathering and was flabbergasted, as was I, at one guy, actually a family member of a mutual friend, hitting on the wife of another family member, even though he himself had a girlfriend, who would later become his wife. My friend made a comment on the 'type of man' women seemed to be attracted to around here and that went over like a lead balloon, as you could imagine. To them, he's 'boring' and 'serious', with that perennially bad word, religion, thrown in. How do I know this? Heard it from their lips to my ears, directly.

 

So, he volunteers to help children who are disadvantaged, does his thing, works, travels and spends time with his family. I did note his ears perk up when I told him I was moving (I am!) and I suggested that perhaps he find a more synergistic demographic to socialize in. That would be my advice to you. You can't change the people you interact with in your existing environment, so change the environment. You also have control over your expectations. You have choices!

[Scales]

Someone said in a post about CREATING attraction...that is rather Alien to me and quite absurd, I don't just buy into it. That the man's level of success with a woman relies on his ability to CREATE it?

 

The whole First 10 mins within meeting, a woman can tell if she wants to have sex with a man? Again, doesn't mix well with me...that within 10 mins that she's waiting on him to do something that would "tickle her pink"? As if we're to be their entertainment for the evening, or their event co-ordinator?

 

Yeah that was me and I stand by my comment. However, I do understand your frustration. I may be going on a limb here, but when you go on a date women expect the man to be the sexual aggressor. That doesn't mean pounce on her, it means creating an environment conducive to sexual attraction and tension. You have to be the one to do it because for women to do it would be overly sexual for them. Much in the same way they don't want to sleep with you too quickly even if they are dying to because they look slutty.

 

You have to be the one to throw the ball first and wait for her to throw it back. When that girl said you were too old, she was waiting to see your comeback. You thought it was spiteful, but to me it was flirting. She wanted to you make a witty return.

 

You did state that you have no interest in this kind of stuff and honestly I don't blame you. Its absolutely stupid at times. You have no interest in "games" or catering to people who take joy in such things. If you want to be alone thats fine too. Its just these kind of social dynamics exist and taking some of them into account if you want to play ball with everyone else can help. Otherwise you get picked last every time in a game where you have to picked first.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Scales

[xxoo]

Maybe that's part of my problem...maybe I'm thinking of it in a logical manner. I'm not sure why I don't think of it in any other way, though I'm trying to get to that "I was blind, but now I see" objective.

 

The most I can get with a woman is her wanting to do the FWB thing with me, but not actually want to date me or think of me as a sig. other. I've refused sex with these women because I'm just not into that situation.

 

Perhaps, I'm nuts for refusing cheap sex instead of making love? That I go against the grain when men would probably think, "What, you refused to have sex with her? You're a dude, why would you do that??"

 

I'm trying to think back to certain situations and it gets exhausting trying to figure it out. I am possibly reaching a level contentment where I could very well actually be content on staying unattached even longer.

 

A male friend of mine, late 40's, actually lacks the energy to "figure out women and their level of interest", perhaps I'm "Trying too hard"? Maybe that's it, and just prefer to "cut up" in front of a bunch of people and not worry about the "Method in which I should flirt with a woman in order to attract her"?

 

Someone said in a post about CREATING attraction...that is rather Alien to me and quite absurd, I don't just buy into it. That the man's level of success with a woman relies on his ability to CREATE it?

 

The whole First 10 mins within meeting, a woman can tell if she wants to have sex with a man? Again, doesn't mix well with me...that within 10 mins that she's waiting on him to do something that would "tickle her pink"? As if we're to be their entertainment for the evening, or their event co-ordinator?

 

Dunno, man. I'm not bitter, but reaching a level of complacency these days.

 

Going back to my late 40's friend, he has been active in other things not involving women or it is just a happen stance that it does involve women. Sometimes if a woman shows interest in him, he easily over looks it. He's become so oblivious to it actually.

 

You asked about my MOST recent interaction with a woman. Today...the latest woman that I've talked to a few times was rather abrasive and rude to me.

 

I was getting to know her at an event, and she asked my age, I told her and she said, "That's old!" I kind of laughed it off and said, "I may be old , but I'm spry!" (She's only 5 years younger than me).

 

Then I brought up some song and she said, "I don't remember that far back, because I'm not old"

 

Now, I could take this as a joke, but I was wondering if she was socially inept, because you just don't make blantant insults with someone you JUST met....now if I knew them for a while we could see it as joking around, but with her it seemed rather spiteful.

 

Today, I went to an event that involved some physical activity, apparently they were choosing teams, and she yells to me, "IRC, get your a** over here, we need another team player!"

 

I was a good distance away, but said I'll sit this one out.

 

Now, this is just an example, but I said this about her to a friend of mine and he was like "You don't need that in your life, not even as a friend..." but I was starting to think she had a hair up her ass or something that needed pulling out.

 

Not sure if I went off on a tangent, but you asked, IMAJerk, LOL....just an example of some of the women I had been interacting with. It's like some women expect you to treat them respectfully and just because they have a vagina, they think they can treat you disrespectfully.

 

I don't cater to such people in my life, but I think part of my problem (if it is a problem) is that I don't cater to the game playing nor really tend to accept some of the "that's just how women will be, and if you're not willing to put up with that behavior, then you should just be content on not wind up being a future divorce statistic".

 

Cripes that was long! LOL

 

It sounds like it isn't your style, but the examples you give here (busting in your age, challenging you to get you ass out there) sound like flirting to me. Some guys would give it right back to her, in a light but equally challenging tone, and the result is sexual tension.

[DemetersHarvest]

I think the "spark" is completely overrated, and just another outgrowth of our "instant gratification" society. You barely know this other person. At the same time, you agreed to meet, so something was there already that made you go, unless it's just out of boredom. And then this expectation of the spark...and if it's not there soon enough, next. It's really about sexual attraction, instantaneously. People don't have to grow on each other anymore, because via OLD, the next on the list can be pulled.

 

I felt "the spark" once, recently, and it was a complete disaster anyway.Going back to my old ways of keeping a level head, and taking time to get to know someone, if they stick around that long.

[irc333]

 

I remember one episode poignantly; he was at a gathering and was flabbergasted, as was I, at one guy, actually a family member of a mutual friend, hitting on the wife of another family member, even though he himself had a girlfriend, who would later become his wife. My friend made a comment on the 'type of man' women seemed to be attracted to around here and that went over like a lead balloon, as you could imagine. To them, he's 'boring' and 'serious', with that perennially bad word, religion, thrown in. How do I know this? Heard it from their lips to my ears, directly.

 

Yeah, there was actually this couple that joined one of our Outdoors Meetups, her boyfriend would always flirt with other women during the hikes right in her presence, she tolerated this for so long. I think he wound up cheating on her with a woman from the Meetup, then wound up dumping her and dating that woman.

 

Then when he got dumped by said woman, she would always take him back. It did eventually stop though, because the "sisterhood" of the group made a point to make a mockery of him publicly on a social networking site. Basically drove him out of the group in a passive-aggressive manner.

 

But during that time she kept him around, so maybe being someone disloyal was the attraction? *Shrug* who knows.

 

Anyhow, "boring" is quite the subjective term as well as "exciting". I have found previous co-workers didn't care for me once they found out I didn't drink heavily when out on a boondogle for work, and of course, had to be up bright and early the next day for work while the rest of the boondoglers were hungover and lacking in performance the following day.

 

 

Some guy said, "Oh, you don't drink much do you, what DO you do??"

 

"Well, I did turn in early and re-read the "Dark Tower" book to get a jump on the possibility of a movie remake by Ron Howard!"

 

To ME that's exciting! ;-)

 

Usually "exciting" to some is participating in vices and debachery. Kind of reminds me of one of Murphy's Laws - "Anything good in life is either illegal, immoral or fattening."

[irc333]

It sounds like it isn't your style, but the examples you give here (busting in your age, challenging you to get you ass out there) sound like flirting to me. Some guys would give it right back to her, in a light but equally challenging tone, and the result is sexual tension.

 

THAT'S flirting? She must be one of those doms or something I suppose, that is if your roll in those circles. lol! Of course her calling me "old", I could've said, "Well, you could shed a few pounds, honey". But apparently THAT might not go over well either, yes...no?

 

I'm more about "building rapport" as my method of "creating attraction". ;-)

 

Perhaps...she did tell me she was "geeky" and I said, "So...would you care to talk nerdy to me?"

 

It didn't get much of a laugh from her, but it did get a laugh from the rest of the table. She twisted her ankle while playing in our activity, so she wasn't necessarily in the best of moods. She wasn't very engaging and was engrossed in texting someone during our restaurant Meetup, while the rest of us talked.

[Tayken]

From the few posts I've read from him, he's VERY articulate for a foreigner.

 

Is this suppose to be a compliment? You don't want to open that can-o-worm on foreigners v Americans.

 

I mean the world knows the amount of Americans that own a passport, and have been outside the USA. My point.....glass houses and stones